Why do all the yuri novels seem to be gender-bender?

Sabruness

Cultured Yuri Connoisseur
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Just thought i'd add some more thoughts into this thread.

GB GL that's legit transgender (like the Kammiverse) is great because you really feel with them as they get used to being the opposite gender physically while dealing with the mentality changes that would come with having been changed so suddenly (albeit to something that feels right)
The diversity in protags in the kammiverse is nice as well. Some kinda "know" they arent right being their birth gender while other dont have a problem until they are changed and it just clicks, like enlightenment.
 

BenJepheneT

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Okay. What are some ideas about how to properly write a GB genre story?
Specifically, what are these untapped gold mine concepts you are talking about?
I want to know what you think the real gold ideas are.
What should the genre be about?

I wanna do GB right. Any serious ideas are appreciated. They help me think about what I want with my story and what to not include.
DISCLAIMER: I have never done GB and have never considered doing GB. Take this with an infant's pinch of salt. If anything comes out wrong from this, please remember I have no prior experience or credibility. This is just the wise ramblings of the local bar's drunk bard.

Let's stray away from the hardiharhar side of GB and let's consider the following: in a world where woman is woman and man is man, what does it feel to not belong?

The first thing you must consider is the change. Physical change, that is. What's it like to go from broad shoulders and stiff joints to a flexible and wizened body? That dongle that once got stuffed? It's gone, but the memory remains. A phantom feel of a penis would be possible, like the protag unknowingly going to scratch his balls, only to find herself caressing the air around her clam. Describe the physical change first, for it is the FIRST thing ANYBODY would experience in a GB, especially when you have a good experience with one side. Suddenly having/not having menstrual pain, having to bear the urge to scratch your tits and the discomfort of suddenly having a "package" in your crotch is a good start.

Next is what the protag would notice. Like how people suddenly expect you to sacrifice yourself in a hostage situation and how you should "let the woman and children go first". Subtle societal changes based on gender should be very glaring to these guys now. "You're a man, let the lady go first" would fee surreal, and so is "Oh, I'm sorry lady, you go first". The girls would notice how men are kept to themselves and how women are more often than not, treated as a damsel in distress in every occasion, especially when you're hot.

What about their habits? Now that they're going to different bathrooms, it should be jarring, right? Sure, it'd be paradise stepping into woman's bathhouse for the first couple of times but soon enough, the homesick (or in this case, gendersick) would settle in, and once you'd wish you were back there, comparing sizes and laughing off dirty jokes. Washing backs and groping tits was fun, but would the guy miss the past or embrace the future? GOtta be some internal shit going on.

Then, you'd have the relationships. Now here is where you make your choice. Does the protag stay true to his heart as a woman and take the easy, obvious yuri route, OR (The rest is some philosophical bullshit coming from your local shitposter. If you don't like my last two paragraphs, you will NOT like this. Trust me) start having a change in heart. It's up to your own imagination and experience to choose whether a change in your genitals stop there or go much deeper. The man who once loved girls now, as a lovely bishojou himself, would never dream to look at hunky dory men in mellow eyes. But what if? What if the switch of privates flipped a switch inside and suddenly shine the men in a different light? What if the guy had a romantic interest before his change, but now that he's different, a reluctant change of heart occurs? This is often unexplored in GB and TBH, I really wanna see this done in GB.

Now that we're done with the protag, let's start with the effect. What would happen if his/her mates or friends found out that this new stranger is actually their long friend, now a her/him? Would a new relationship chart occur? Would old, buried feelings resurface? What about the girl who became a man? Would her new fellow brethren feel insecure knowing that they're new bro used to be the subject of their late night stroking? What about the women, knowing that this kawaii-chan used to be the loser otaku of the class? New look, new happenings. That'd be for your imagination to decide.

That's all I have for now. Anything you think doesn't make sense or fit, don't use it. Like I said: no experience; no credibility. Still, it's another guy's opinion. Feel free to consider mine if you feel like it.
 

Yorda

Villainess Yorda the Virtuous Flower of Evil
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DISCLAIMER: I have never done GB and have never considered doing GB. Take this with an infant's pinch of salt. If anything comes out wrong from this, please remember I have no prior experience or credibility. This is just the wise ramblings of the local bar's drunk bard.

Let's stray away from the hardiharhar side of GB and let's consider the following: in a world where woman is woman and man is man, what does it feel to not belong?

The first thing you must consider is the change. Physical change, that is. What's it like to go from broad shoulders and stiff joints to a flexible and wizened body? That dongle that once got stuffed? It's gone, but the memory remains. A phantom feel of a penis would be possible, like the protag unknowingly going to scratch his balls, only to find herself caressing the air around her clam. Describe the physical change first, for it is the FIRST thing ANYBODY would experience in a GB, especially when you have a good experience with one side. Suddenly having/not having menstrual pain, having to bear the urge to scratch your tits and the discomfort of suddenly having a "package" in your crotch is a good start.

Next is what the protag would notice. Like how people suddenly expect you to sacrifice yourself in a hostage situation and how you should "let the woman and children go first". Subtle societal changes based on gender should be very glaring to these guys now. "You're a man, let the lady go first" would fee surreal, and so is "Oh, I'm sorry lady, you go first". The girls would notice how men are kept to themselves and how women are more often than not, treated as a damsel in distress in every occasion, especially when you're hot.

What about their habits? Now that they're going to different bathrooms, it should be jarring, right? Sure, it'd be paradise stepping into woman's bathhouse for the first couple of times but soon enough, the homesick (or in this case, gendersick) would settle in, and once you'd wish you were back there, comparing sizes and laughing off dirty jokes. Washing backs and groping tits was fun, but would the guy miss the past or embrace the future? GOtta be some internal shit going on.

Then, you'd have the relationships. Now here is where you make your choice. Does the protag stay true to his heart as a woman and take the easy, obvious yuri route, OR (The rest is some philosophical bullshit coming from your local shitposter. If you don't like my last two paragraphs, you will NOT like this. Trust me) start having a change in heart. It's up to your own imagination and experience to choose whether a change in your genitals stop there or go much deeper. The man who once loved girls now, as a lovely bishojou himself, would never dream to look at hunky dory men in mellow eyes. But what if? What if the switch of privates flipped a switch inside and suddenly shine the men in a different light? What if the guy had a romantic interest before his change, but now that he's different, a reluctant change of heart occurs? This is often unexplored in GB and TBH, I really wanna see this done in GB.

Now that we're done with the protag, let's start with the effect. What would happen if his/her mates or friends found out that this new stranger is actually their long friend, now a her/him? Would a new relationship chart occur? Would old, buried feelings resurface? What about the girl who became a man? Would her new fellow brethren feel insecure knowing that they're new bro used to be the subject of their late night stroking? What about the women, knowing that this kawaii-chan used to be the loser otaku of the class? New look, new happenings. That'd be for your imagination to decide.

That's all I have for now. Anything you think doesn't make sense or fit, don't use it. Like I said: no experience; no credibility. Still, it's another guy's opinion. Feel free to consider mine if you feel like it.

= Katia from "Kumo desu ga nani ka".

You have natural talent. LOL

Thank you for the time you took to post.
 

ohko

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I’ve often felt like a lot of those stories are genderbender focused rather than yuri focused.

That said, I do prefer straight GB and wish there was more of that scribblehub >.<
 

LWFlouisa

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There is really kind of a simple answer for that: the author themselves is trans and lesbian.

Granted in most cases it might be a guy that does a self-insert, but by no means always.
 

BenJepheneT

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I’ve often felt like a lot of those stories are genderbender focused rather than yuri focused.

That said, I do prefer straight GB and wish there was more of that scribblehub >.<
straight GB
those words go together as well as fish and Skittles
 

FireflyFanatic

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I personally feel there's a difference between trans and gender bender that makes the former feel much more introspective. The novels with the transgender tag instead of or alongside GB seem to aim for a different type of story, and focuses much more on who you are inside than just what you look like physically. I can enjoy reading stories like that whether the MC is gay, lesbian, straight, or anything else, as it makes more sense than the typical "Oh, your'e going to a new world and by the way you're a girl now" developments you see in many GB stories.
This doesn't apply to all, and there are good stories that are purely GB as well.
 

ohko

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I personally feel there's a difference between trans and gender bender that makes the former feel much more introspective. The novels with the transgender tag instead of or alongside GB seem to aim for a different type of story, and focuses much more on who you are inside than just what you look like physically. I can enjoy reading stories like that whether the MC is gay, lesbian, straight, or anything else, as it makes more sense than the typical "Oh, your'e going to a new world and by the way you're a girl now" developments you see in many GB stories.
This doesn't apply to all, and there are good stories that are purely GB as well.
Ah! I'm actually just like this!

I kind of struggle with the GB that you mention as well (particularly the yuri ones), because it's really challenging for me to relate to these stories when I'm approaching with a trans perspective!
 

PrincessFelicie

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Adding my voice to the "the general rule is GB yuri is done right if it's from a transgender perspective and is gratuitous ecchi if the author is a cis dude" crowd. Like all rules there's always exceptions and grey areas (especially when a fraction of those cis dudes will likely end up later learning they weren't as cis and dude as they thought as they learn more reasons why writing GB stuff appeals to them, and from that learn how to write it better and join the first category), but they tend to orient people towards the right stories for them.

Like, seriously. Whenever I see a story that's like "I Was Isekaied But As A Girl And Also A Loli!???" (even passing that calling one of your own characters pedo bait is already a red flag in itself), clicking through the author's profile and you'll find that they're a dude.

So, yeah. If you want good GB yuri that doesn't feel like straight romance, look out for the transgender tag. And of course, I won't stop ya from blacklisting the GB tag altogether either, to each their own.
 

BenJepheneT

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"I Was Isekaied But As A Girl And Also A Loli!???" (even passing that calling one of your own characters pedo bait is already a red flag in itself)
ngl they still make up for good entertainment
 

FireflyFanatic

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Yes, when done right, those can be good. But being "done right" usually means having them be 1. Legitimately a child, 2. Not involved in any kind of ecchi situation, ever, or 3. Badass enough to put any pedophiles into the ground if they try anything. Anything outside of that tends to be... "pedo bait", as was mentioned above. And personally, pedophilia is disgusting. It shouldn't exist. Anyone who would do that to a child is a monster.
 
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LWFlouisa

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Being trans has no corrolation to being a pedo. Also there are cases of gender change of MC, where it's not gender-bender as well. Gender-bender and being trans isn't the same thing.
 

FireflyFanatic

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Being trans has no corrolation to being a pedo. Also there are cases of gender change of MC, where it's not gender-bender as well. Gender-bender and being trans isn't the same thing.
Yes, but being gender bent into a loli or a shota tends to turn out as pedo bait. Not always, as I said above, but far too often.
I wasn't saying being trans makes you a pedo, I was saying the opposite. Stories about being turned into a loli encourages others to be pedophilic, and in a lot of stories they try to make it out as something that's okay, which it is not.
Also, I get that GB and Trans is different. When I brought up the subject in the first place that was the first thing I said.
 

Sabruness

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When i tend to read GB yuri, usually it's for shits and giggles because i havent yet found a non-trans GB yuri that actually works as a serious story. on the other hand, the trans GL i've read here on SH always manages to stoke the emotions well with both serious and non-serious parts.
 

YuriDoggo

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Whelp. I guess there's no talking about this topic without someone bring politics into this.
 
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