Insight Please

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
Aside from authoring I work as a game developer.
To date I have had a terrible time dealing with teammates, specifically artists.

As far as I can see, I haven't done anything that would cause these problems and I've tried pretty much everything possible to accommodate or make things work with my partners.

The frustrating part is that I keep meeting people like this.

It doesn't matter :
  • I pay what they ask.
  • Give specific instructions
  • Allow them to work freely.
  • Pay them more than they ask.
  • I am patient.
  • I am consistently working with them to produce constant results.
  • I've even tried offering payment + percent based profits from projects.
I'm sincerely beginning to think that this is perhaps a sign from the universe.

Ironically enough, I used to be an artist too. Back before digital art was a "thing". I've even considered just ignoring everyone else and honing my own skills at this point. That would be a 5-6 month process, maybe longer as I hone my skills back to where they need to be after years of rust and maybe even another 1-2 years before I can produce commercial quality content.

As a game developer it is immensely frustrating to watch projects tank or stagnate due to people who fail to communicate clearly or just have ego problems in general. It's given me a near irate level complex at this point.

What I would like is some insight:

I'm not looking for comments like " well maybe if you did *this common sense thing right here*".

I'd like to hear why, as an artist you have ghosted, left or quit jobs extended to you.

Perhaps by understanding things from a different perspective I can better come to terms with this.
 

BenJepheneT

Light Up Gold - Parquet Courts
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
5,344
Points
233
i've never worked extensively with other people, so I could only give a perspective on projects I've started.

losing passion and the heavy burden of commitment that's lost its fuel of enthusiasm and is now running purely on sentimentality for your past efforts is one

aside from that, I don't know. there are better artists in this forum who can give their piece of mind, but to me, I think my answer encapsulates a general idea as to why. there's definitely more niches to this, I just think I've cast a general umbrella to the motives.
 

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
i've never worked extensively with other people, so I could only give a perspective on projects I've started.

losing passion and the heavy burden of commitment that's lost its fuel of enthusiasm and is now running purely on sentimentality for your past efforts is one

aside from that, I don't know. there are better artists in this forum who can give their piece of mind, but to me, I think my answer encapsulates a general idea as to why. there's definitely more niches to this, I just think I've cast a general umbrella to the motives.
Understandable.
And thanks for sharing.
 
D

Deleted member 29316

Guest
As a public school teacher in my country, it was my mistake to help with what I know. My co-workers knew I had skills in arts and a few knowledge in computers.

So they abused me like hell. There was this one time I was assigned to work on the design of an organizational chart in our school. However, my schedule is kind of messed up, so I asked our principal to take a few loads off me that day I intended to do the chart.

Guess what, she threatened to have the chart removed from my responsibilities. I told her, in a polite manner, that it's okay if that's how she wants it.

She gave up in the end.

And then another time was when I was requesting that my subject be changed from language to computer lab teacher, since I got knowledge in those areas.

They put in another teacher, and told me to help him. Pissed, I told them to f*ck off...and I was glad when I resigned from my work (due to another case, but the feelings are still the same).

Edit: my co-teachers would always request an artwork from me, but they're nitpicky about it. And they have the audacity to never pay me.
 

Assurbanipal_II

Empress of the Four Corners of the World
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
1,921
Points
153
Where are you from? And where do your artists from come? You might encounter some intercultural barriers. Also we hear only your version of the events. The opinion of the artists themselves would be useful to determine what led to the break down in team management.
 

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
As a public school teacher in my country, it was my mistake to help with what I know. My co-workers knew I had skills in arts and a few knowledge in computers.

So they abused me like hell. There was this one time I was assigned to work on the design of an organizational chart in our school. However, my schedule is kind of messed up, so I asked our principal to take a few loads off me that day I intended to do the chart.

Guess what, she threatened to have the chart removed from my responsibilities. I told her, in a polite manner, that it's okay if that's how she wants it.

She gave up in the end.

And then another time was when I was requesting that my subject be changed from language to computer lab teacher, since I got knowledge in those areas.

They put in another teacher, and told me to help him. Pissed, I told them to f*ck off...and I was glad when I resigned from my work (due to another case, but the feelings are still the same).

Edit: my co-teachers would always request an artwork from me, but they're nitpicky about it. And they have the audacity to never pay me.
So if I'm reading this right-- past experiences may cause you to look at jobs with potential clients suspiciously? That's pretty common for most people I think. Definitely a struggle.
 

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
What I would like is some insight:

I'm not looking for comments like " well maybe if you did *this common sense thing right here*".

I'd like to hear why, as an artist you have ghosted, left or quit jobs extended to you.

Perhaps by understanding things from a different perspective I can better come to terms with this.
^
 
D

Deleted member 29316

Guest
So if I'm reading this right-- past experiences may cause you to look at jobs with potential clients suspiciously? That's pretty common for most people I think. Definitely a struggle.
Yep. That's why it either I do something for free (because I want to give) or I won't do anything at all.
 

Moonpearl

The Yuri Empress
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
764
Points
133
Not an artist, but I once considered offering story commissions. To prepare myself, I decided to take on story requests first.

I got one request that I never completed.

Frankly, it was because they requested a crossover between two fandoms I wasn't very familiar with, with a character I'd never heard of before, and with a very vague concept.
By the time I'd researched it all, come up with a logical way to fuse them, and sat down to write, I realised that I was writing a tragedy and I didn't know if the requester had specifically wanted fluff fic or something.

They were anonymous, so I could only wait for them to come to me and couldn't reach out on my own.
I was also a super people pleaser and was too anxious to tell them I was struggling or hadn't made it very far yet.
And, I have to say, I work very slowly and thoroughly. This person kept constantly coming back every two or so days to ask if I was done - and I'd spent that time painting the sombre atmosphere of the hotel room, before our MC left for the night.
It made me panic and feel like I was a shitty, slow writer.

In the end, I abandoned the site to run away.

I took that as a sign that I wasn't ready for paid work, and rightfully gave up the idea.
However, I know people who jump right into paid work and find out after they have money in their hand that they don't have what it takes.
 

Ral

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
604
Points
133
Hmm.

I have very little experience with this but there was a time I left because of lack of authority/leadership. If the boss doesn't feel like they are leading things well, it feels like my work are going to be wasted. I would be more willing and confident to help or do my job if someone would guarantee, or at least give a sense, that what we are doing would actually matter.

Sure, managing stuff is useful. Who should do what. What should be done. When to do what. How much pay you'll get. But there has to be sense to where all of these things are going and that we actually have a chance to get there.

Related is the final vision for the project. What the goal is. Even if I was given clear tasks to do, it might still feel that I'm not doing something worthy. I'm contributing to something that I don't know what and just hope that it results to something concrete and worthwhile in the end. This vagueness makes what what I'm doing feel aimless. Even if I completed something, it might not feel like I accomplished something.
 
Last edited:

EternalSunset0

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
1,190
Points
153
Not as an artist, but as a story writer. I was paid to ghostwrite a fanfic of a fandom that I have decent knowledge of way back.

However, the client also wanted to insert some weird (for me at least) fetishes in there, and wanting "easy" money, I complied.

It all started out well enough, but I just lost passion halfway through. I had a hard time writing the story arc, and it felt like hell trying to write the story while taking note of and inserting his "unique" points since those are really not stuff that I'm into. In the slightest.

The weekly submissions turned into two or three week submissions, and I honestly felt really bad for the guy. I felt that I was doing him dirty because of how nice he was, and he was extremely patient and accomodating to my schedule.

I did finish the fanfic eventually. Closed ending and all. Then promptly resigned. At the very least, I would never allow myself to leave him hanging after all he did for me.

Not sure how helpful or on-topic this is, but I hope this gave you some insights.
 

EternalSunset0

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
1,190
Points
153
Basically, if they were in it for just the money, it would be a lot easier to just get burnt out and lose interest. Especially if the requirements are something they're not comfortable with but are just putting up with because they want money, exposure, or goodwill.
 

Daitengu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
636
Points
133
Sounds like you aren't giving them enough boundaries. I've often heard of artists who need concrete concepts and deadlines to get anything done. Art is a world of infinite possibilities. If you don't narrow it down they'll flounder. Force them to get something done even if it isn't perfect, it's a step. At least you have something and can alter that something into what you want after.

Your in a business, if you pay and they don't produce you have an obligation to replace them with someone else. If you are having THAT hard of a time getting ANY art, I suggest paying artists by commission before hiring them to salary. Any other business if I don't work, I don't get paid. If you must, you may have to set a minimum amount of art to be met per week in contract or they get fired. It's basically what Manga and comic artists work on pages a week/month.
 
Last edited:

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
Sounds like you aren't giving them enough boundaries. I've often heard of artists who need concrete concepts and deadlines to get anything done. Art is a world of infinite possibilities. If you don't narrow it down they'll flounder. Force them to get something done even if it isn't perfect, it's a step. At least you have something and can alter that something into what you want after.
"What I would like is some insight:

I'm not looking for comments like " well maybe if you did *this common sense thing right here*".

I'd like to hear why, as an artist you have ghosted, left or quit jobs extended to you.

Perhaps by understanding things from a different perspective I can better come to terms with this. "
 

Daitengu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
636
Points
133
"What I would like is some insight:

I'm not looking for comments like " well maybe if you did *this common sense thing right here*".

I'd like to hear why, as an artist you have ghosted, left or quit jobs extended to you.

Perhaps by understanding things from a different perspective I can better come to terms with this. "

I told you why in the first part, and suggestions on how to fix it in the second part. I suppose you're the type that needs an example.

Not enough boundaries via concrete concepts and deadlines.

Concepts. If you just tell an artist to make a space elf, you can get a VAST variety of what that means from 40k, to Phantasy Star to Star Ocean. sex? gender? scifi gear? magic gear? buff? thin? light/dark skin tone? chill pose? in action? literally floating in space or on a space ship? concept character design? cover art? background npc? what art style? anime/modern/abstract/punk/etc age range? commoner or upper class? Civil or Military? . Psychology shows having 20+ choices caused people to blank out on choice and just didn't choose an item or went with the 1 they knew in markets. Where as if they have 3 to 5 choices they're more likely to experiment in trying the other choices, and almost always buying something. It's a similar case here.

You GOTTA spell out as much detail as you can, and you'll find artists have a lot easier time whipping something up.

deadlines. I've had artists literally say they just think till it's close to deadline then actually start working.
 

DreamOfRen

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
178
Points
83
I told you why in the first part, and suggestions on how to fix it in the second part. I suppose you're the type that needs an example.

Not enough boundaries via concrete concepts and deadlines.

Concepts. If you just tell an artist to make a space elf, you can get a VAST variety of what that means from 40k, to Phantasy Star to Star Ocean. sex? gender? scifi gear? magic gear? buff? thin? light/dark skin tone? chill pose? in action? literally floating in space or on a space ship? concept character design? cover art? background npc? what art style? anime/modern/abstract/punk/etc age range? commoner or upper class? Civil or Military? . Psychology shows having 20+ choices caused people to blank out on choice and just didn't choose an item or went with the 1 they knew in markets. Where as if they have 3 to 5 choices they're more likely to experiment in trying the other choices, and almost always buying something. It's a similar case here.

You GOTTA spell out as much detail as you can, and you'll find artists have a lot easier time whipping something up.

deadlines. I've had artists literally say they just think till it's close to deadline then actually start working.
I didn't ask for advice, nor am I interested in it.
You seem pretty keen to give it though.
 

Discount_Blade

Sent Here To Piss You All Off
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
1,347
Points
153
Aside from authoring I work as a game developer.
To date I have had a terrible time dealing with teammates, specifically artists.

As far as I can see, I haven't done anything that would cause these problems and I've tried pretty much everything possible to accommodate or make things work with my partners.

The frustrating part is that I keep meeting people like this.

It doesn't matter :
  • I pay what they ask.
  • Give specific instructions
  • Allow them to work freely.
  • Pay them more than they ask.
  • I am patient.
  • I am consistently working with them to produce constant results.
  • I've even tried offering payment + percent based profits from projects.
I'm sincerely beginning to think that this is perhaps a sign from the universe.

Ironically enough, I used to be an artist too. Back before digital art was a "thing". I've even considered just ignoring everyone else and honing my own skills at this point. That would be a 5-6 month process, maybe longer as I hone my skills back to where they need to be after years of rust and maybe even another 1-2 years before I can produce commercial quality content.

As a game developer it is immensely frustrating to watch projects tank or stagnate due to people who fail to communicate clearly or just have ego problems in general. It's given me a near irate level complex at this point.

What I would like is some insight:

I'm not looking for comments like " well maybe if you did *this common sense thing right here*".

I'd like to hear why, as an artist you have ghosted, left or quit jobs extended to you.

Perhaps by understanding things from a different perspective I can better come to terms with this.
LOL. Seems obvious to me why people disappear.
 

Wohendum-Bluu

When Blue Just Isn't Quite Blue Enough
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
112
Points
83
Not an artist, but I once considered offering story commissions. To prepare myself, I decided to take on story requests first.

I got one request that I never completed.

Frankly, it was because they requested a crossover between two fandoms I wasn't very familiar with, with a character I'd never heard of before, and with a very vague concept.
By the time I'd researched it all, come up with a logical way to fuse them, and sat down to write, I realised that I was writing a tragedy and I didn't know if the requester had specifically wanted fluff fic or something.

They were anonymous, so I could only wait for them to come to me and couldn't reach out on my own.
I was also a super people pleaser and was too anxious to tell them I was struggling or hadn't made it very far yet.
And, I have to say, I work very slowly and thoroughly. This person kept constantly coming back every two or so days to ask if I was done - and I'd spent that time painting the sombre atmosphere of the hotel room, before our MC left for the night.
It made me panic and feel like I was a shitty, slow writer.

In the end, I abandoned the site to run away.

I took that as a sign that I wasn't ready for paid work, and rightfully gave up the idea.
However, I know people who jump right into paid work and find out after they have money in their hand that they don't have what it takes.
What was this site that you took paid commission work for stories? I might offer a commission to someone else for something not related. Was it just a general writing site or something specifically tailored to commissioning?
 

Moonpearl

The Yuri Empress
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
764
Points
133
What was this site that you took paid commission work for stories? I might offer a commission to someone else for something not related. Was it just a general writing site or something specifically tailored to commissioning?
Neither. I didn't offer any commissions - just free requests - but it was just on Tumblr.

You don't need to be on a writing-dedicated site to offer commissions for anything. Like artists, you just advertise yourself where you are.
 

Wohendum-Bluu

When Blue Just Isn't Quite Blue Enough
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
112
Points
83
Neither. I didn't offer any commissions - just free requests - but it was just on Tumblr.

You don't need to be on a writing-dedicated site to offer commissions for anything. Like artists, you just advertise yourself where you are.
Tumblr. I apologize but....ew. Good thing you ran for the hills when you did. That place is almost as bad as twitter. I could have went my entire life not knowing or understanding what either tumblr or twitter were.
 
Top