Why I value story over plot and why you shouldn't listen to me

BenJepheneT

Light Up Gold - Parquet Courts
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
5,344
Points
233
Ay, wassup, it's ya' boi, AlphaRetard here comin' in hot with another incoherent post about shit he couldn't keep to himself and has to splooge it all over the internet for free clout.

Today's bullshit goes by the title of Story v.s. Plot. Any of you half-assed writers, screenwriters, comic artists or whatever you call yourselves these days have probably watched youTube videos discussing about this shit. If you ARE any of these folks, turn the fuck away because this is not only no different, it's much worse.

Alright. So, before we get our heads wrapped up around this I wanna see some hands. Who knows the difference between plot and story. Do you evenknow what plot and story- woah. Woah, that's a lot of fucken hands. Well, too bad, I'mma say it anyway.

WHAT THE FUCK IS PLOT AND STORY

Plot is basically the events that happen. Take John Wick. John Wick murders a whole clan of gangsters. That's the plot.

Story explains why the events happen. Take John Wick (again). He murders a whole clan of gangsters because they shot his dog, which is a sentimental object (wow objectifying pets that's racist it's 2019 #getwoke) to John Wick because the dog is the last gift from his wife, who is now dead because she played too much Club Penguin. The gangsters killing the dog to Wick is like them noscoping his wife, thus, in order to exact revenge and find peace, he does the biggest kill streak anyone has ever seen in this side of Americana.

Basically, if plot is the what, where, when and how, the story is the who and the why.

Okay, now that we have the ingredients, let's get the pot cooking.

THAT MAN HAS A GUN IN HIS HAND < HE'S A MAN WITH A GUN IN HIS HAND

Every story starts off with a philosophy, or a truth, or a lie, or just... something to believe in. Take a generic Isekai or something. Guy gets transported. His philosophy is that he either needs to get out of there and survive. Sooner or later, he experiences the world, and find out he's stuck here, permanently. Now his philosophy changes (unless depression and the good ol' noose comes for a visit). It changes from simply gtfo to just trying to live. That there is a simple story. Simple.

Now here's a simple plot with the same premise. Guy wakes up in a new world. He can't get out.

...

That's it, really.

the thing about story is that it's a quintessential ingredient for the story to be engaging for audiences. it is the one driving factor into anything happening in the story. Without a story it'd just be random ass people pulling out random ass stunts. Without a story, we don't get a why. it's just a how, what, when, where.

If you watch Citrus without a story it'd just be a poor, submissive chick getting raped by her new step-sister. Of course, it's still rape, but without the story it stays that way. Citrus' push-down-kissy-kissy scene is way more than just a kiss. It's a culmination of Mei's inner feelings lashed out in an instant as she can't help herself the moment Yuzu steps into her sights. For the story, we're given subtle hints and tiny details littered in the anime's dialogue and with those crucial plot devices, everything the girls do in the anime is now given reason. Without a reason, that scene with the hinted threesome would just end up as a cool hahafunnylmao scene and not a promise for the future in the anime's story.
I've never read Citrus at all. Really. I've never read it before or watched it my entire life. This all here is bullshit. Complete dogshit. Do not believe HIS lies.
Again, let's take something else. My Hero Macadamia. Let's take a look at Green Naruto. The plot itself is action-packed. Bunch of faggots go to school to learn faggot tricks in order to take down the bigger faggots doing bad faggotry that harms other faggots without faggot tricks. At this point you an see my intense bias against MHA. It's by all means an excellent story with good characters and everything but something in me just hates it. I hate how good it is and I wish it'll drown in a vat of Applebee Mashed Potatoes.That's the whole plot. The story here is that in a world filled with faggo- sorry, qUiRkS, there are Heroes and Villains. Heroes are trained to use their *huerk* for good while Villains just wanna have a good time committing casual homicide. The protagonists are heroes-in-training, each with their own unique abilities that tie in to their character motives and traits. Deku wants to suck All Might's dick and protect everyone he loves, thus One for All. (tbh that's the only example i can come up with but trust me when i say there's other characters with the same traits n' shiz)

Still in My Faggot Academia, the Hero Killer/Hunter/icouldntfuckingcareless arc tips the story over the plot, which is where MHA is known for. The plot is basically a Villain going around killing Heroes and some Villains, contradicting the Batman Sunday villains we saw in previous arcs. Plot alone, it's nothing to shout about.

STORY however, there's SOMETHING to shout about. Maybe it'll be louder if there was helium in that shit but by God it's so overhyped like why the hell the guy is just delusional there's nothing special it's not the next The Godfather it's just a wooo spooky are heroes really goody goody moment it's so overrated i swear why the hell the only morally provocative moment is the guy with flame mustache and all he is is an asshat the hero killerhunterwhatever is just a gimmick to stir this cinderblock of an anime watching paint dry is a more engaging activity what the fu-

AHEM, AHEM, sorry about that. the inner demons kinda got away. Where was I? Yeah, the story of THAT arc.

The story shows a morally gray area into the world of MHA. Are heroes really what they're portrayed to be? Are the heroes abusing their titles as heroes just so they could gain fame and all that shmanzy fancy shiz? What if there's a man who believes such motives, spent a second too long under a hot shower and decides he's the judge jury and executioner for the heroes? Even if the man's defeated, is his perception also invalid? Are heroes what they seem to be or is there a more darker side hidden into it. That particular arc shines because of the story driving the plot. Past arcs like that examination arc rely on plot. Without the big ugly guy, green Uzumaki would never advanced in his story and grow stronger in order to defeat the villains for the sake of protecting what he loves.

In this arc, however, the characters act upon their motives and traits, causing the story to take center stage while the plot is merely props for the story to present itself.

Which is better? A story that runs on plot that's just shock and awe or a thought-provoking story that makes you think as you walk away like damn that shit actually fucked me up

(Skip this part if you hate JJBA. Keep scrolling until you see bold text)


Which is why I love JoJo's Bizarre Adventure so much. As memable as the who series is, it actually dabbles with philosophy a hell lot. Starting from P5, anyway. I'mma try to draw a quick, understandable example from JJBA P7: Steel Ball Run. Mainly, it's antagonist - Funny Valentine, the 27th president of the great american states. The plot is janky. To show how janky it is, the author had to retcon Valentine's ability on his first reveal because of how broken OP he is. He can only pull himself and whatever he can carry at ONE instance from an alternate dimension, as opposed to the same thing but instead of one he can pull multiple at the SAME TIME. And even if it's retconned, it's still CANON. Yes, the thing is still canon. The antagonist's cancelled ability is still canon and affecting the main story.

Yet, to those who stick to JJBA, the plot is nothing when compared to the story (in later parts). In fact, the story is so good the fandom FORGAVE the broken plot. Funny Valentine's main drive is that he's a damn patriot. He's so patriotic he has a huge scar on his back carved in the shape of the American flag. If that ain't patriotic, i don't know what is. In fact, he's so patriotic that he's willing to kill for the sake of his country.

The main plot is that the protags and antag is chasing after something the corpse of Jesus Christ and that something the corpse of Jesus Christ has the ability to radiate good luck within its vicinity while bad luck happens somewhere else outside its vicinity. For example, if you shoot the thing the corpse of Jonah Hill in Chicago, not only will the bullet deliberately miss the thing my pp, someone in Brunei gets shot in the face at the same time. The thing the Jesus Christ of corpse basically deletes bad luck done towards itself and makes it happen to someone else.

Funny Valentine wants to use the thing and put it in the middle of the country so that only good luck happens to the country and bad luck happens everywhere else. He's so patriotic he's willing to kill innocent people, rape a young child that's birthing something the skull of Amen, shoot a crippled man and put a hit on an European cowboy in order for his dreams to come true.

That's the whole story for JUST THE ANTAGONIST ALONE. It's presented so much better than my crippled typing above in the story and it's so good, the fandom basically waved off his retconned-but-still-canon-ability because of how irrelevant it is to the story heavy plot.

A story so strong that its fans are willing to forgive the broken plot. You might argue that it is only a minority that thinks this way but calling the JJBA manga fans a minority is defo an understatement there, buddy. Don't believe me? Find the comment section for AC/DC. That's how small the fandom is.

In contrast, let's find a plot heavy story that completely negates story.

Transformers.

Now do you see my point?

A MAN WITH A GUN IN HIS HAND STILL NEEDS A GUN IN HIS HAND

Of course, though story has more prominence than plot, the story still needs a platform to support itself. Stephen Hawking isn't shit without his computerized wheelchair. Storytelling is best done when it's shown and not told.

A story itself is, like I said, a why and a who. Problem is, with only a why and a who, the story would be nothing but... a story. We're after all, still human. Without an external stimuli to add depth into a story's weight, it'll just be... boring. My Hero Macadamia can essentially end with Deku getting therapy. In fact, most stories can end if their characters get a therapy. If not, then a strong enough therapy would do. There IS a story in those situations. Deku gets therapy because of his crippling addiction of sucking AM's dick. A therapist talks him through how gay dat shit is and now he's as straight as the noodle. Now that's a story, but is it an interesting story? I'd watch the heck out of that therapist scene but no, it isn't interesting. I'd get like 2 rewatches before getting bored of it. All dialogue, no action in between.

Deku learns how to get off AM's dick by gaining power himself instead of just relying on the heroes to come save the day. He realizes that in order to stop that gay shit he must earn his own power, train to be stronger and be the dick himself. Now story wise, there ain't much difference. Deku still learns to suck less dick. BUT IN A MORE INTERESTING MANNER. Instead of confessing to a therapist, he punches the absolute shit out of something and sleeps the absolute shit out of that hospital bed. He still learns how not to suck dick, but he does it in a way that conveys his inner thoughts and feelings in the most efficient way possible.

An engine can be as powerful as it is but without wheels and a body, it's basically one loud motherfucker.

A GOOD MAN WITH A GOOD GUN IN HIS HANDS MAKES A GREAT MAN

This doesn't mean that story triumphs over plot like an unhealthy, dominating marriage. One of the hardest things writers could ever manage is striking a balance between both worlds. Having too much plot means your story loses meaning, thus being just people doing shit with loose reasons that don't even make sense. Having too much story makes your story look like a pretentious French art house, thus eliminating all sense of enjoyment and just making your story boring.

Let's take some western influences here. The Incredibles. Mr. Incredible's plot is that he's roped into this superhero killing plan and that it's his personal responsibility that he must defeat in order to save millions. His story is his superhero ego still retains and that he still wishes for a former glory, but that ego is killing him and his family relationship. What the movie did right is that he incorporates both story and plot together and have it interwoven so perfectly that it's a satisfying ride to watch. As Mr. I defeats the robot, he finds out that he's not alone, and that he should let go of his former ego and be super with the one thing that matters to him - his family. It's not a giant ohmygod plot and nor is it some heartstring im gonna die of heart attack story. Yet, they excel in their part and fit together like puzzle pieces which makes the movie very whole.

I FEAR NOT THE GUN BUT THE MAN

Regardless, story is still better than plot. I find myself accepting stories with good emotional investment even if the set pieces are as stale as sponge cake. If you give me something to think about and something to ponder when I lay awake at night, I'm taking it. Don't give me convoluted magic spells or systems that I couldn't care less. That Demon Lord Isekai had a concise magic system and I really, really couldn't give less of a shit. The characters were cardboard cut outs with tits slapped onto em' with abs being one exception.

Your Lie in April. Story heavy with little plot going on. Yet the plot complements the story. The story itself has little to no potential for really mind-blowing set pieces but the producers manage to strike the balance and get the most out of it. It slaps. Almost shed a tear. Never knew cancer would hurt a man this much, especially if you're not the dying one.

Redline. A plot heavy story with a little story in the middle, yet it still slaps. The plot has vibrant set pieces and gigantic action sequences but they aren't for naught. Behind them, the action were given build up with ample screen time given for the story to grow in order to give a good why and who to the how, what, when and where.

In Another World With My Smartphone. A plot heavy story with almost no story in betwee- oh- oh... oh. Sorry, halfway there I suddenly stopped caring.

You see how much a story gets affected if there isn't a suitable if not good story in it? You can have the biggest world-building I've ever seen or the most intricate magic systems in the whole world. If there's cardboard boxes with faces and tits using such systems, I COULDN'T CARE LESS. It's like politics. I don't even care about these old men in suits. Why would I care how the parliament runs and all that? I only care if they put out bullshit that just seems like it's considered on every aspect BUT common sense (brexit ahem ahem)

BUT, if you give me characters with good traits and motives and drives behind their action, you can rule-break every once in a while. It'll only dampen a little bit out of a whole, thick, enjoyable experience. Remember the plot holes from MHA? Yeah, you don't. You're so caught up and invested in Deku that you immediately get hooked on the story and continue chugging along. Remember the last time Star Platinum used Star Finger? Remember when Jotaro can only stop time for three seconds but on P6 he gets a powerup out of nowhere. You fucking don't. You're caught up on Polenareff trying to break his cursed spell and Pucci outrunning Jotaro's OP power with his more OP skill, showing that no matter how long you can stop time I can still move faster than you.

Good plot and good story makes a great experience. But if you were to drop one thing, drop the plot. It needn't be the next world-class, award-winning DnD set-up. If it's short and ample enough to give the story enough tools to present itself, then you've done your job as a writer - to tell a good story.

JESUS CHRIST THAT MAN WITH THE GUN IS ROBBING THE BANK WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT

now that ive covered my inner thoughts heres why you shouldnt listen to me

like, why?

you know who i am. dont fucking lie.

this is all bullshit, alright? ive only got like 2 wiki tabs and a youtube video on for reference. the rest is blind guesses and bullshit, really. what if im wrong. what if plot really is the important factor in a story? what if we're all blind men dismissing the prestigious Micheal bay because we couldnt get out heads out of the echo chamber?

im just a guy who likes a good story. i cant give two shits about your backstory. in fact, i usually skip those shit because what i need is context not the whole history. just tell me this place has spooky magic, slap on some ground rules and get going. BUT, if you can make a story great enough that actually implements every small detail you have in your world-building and magic-system, by all means go ahead and slap on that shit. otherwise, keep it locked in the glossary

alright my eyes are sagging and my balls are heavy imma gonna jack off ill see yall next time when i feel like it
 

CupcakeNinja

Pervert Supreme
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
3,066
Points
183
Ay, wassup, it's ya' boi, AlphaRetard here comin' in hot with another incoherent post about shit he couldn't keep to himself and has to splooge it all over the internet for free clout.

Today's bullshit goes by the title of Story v.s. Plot. Any of you half-assed writers, screenwriters, comic artists or whatever you call yourselves these days have probably watched youTube videos discussing about this shit. If you ARE any of these folks, turn the fuck away because this is not only no different, it's much worse.

Alright. So, before we get our heads wrapped up around this I wanna see some hands. Who knows the difference between plot and story. Do you evenknow what plot and story- woah. Woah, that's a lot of fucken hands. Well, too bad, I'mma say it anyway.

WHAT THE FUCK IS PLOT AND STORY

Plot is basically the events that happen. Take John Wick. John Wick murders a whole clan of gangsters. That's the plot.

Story explains why the events happen. Take John Wick (again). He murders a whole clan of gangsters because they shot his dog, which is a sentimental object (wow objectifying pets that's racist it's 2019 #getwoke) to John Wick because the dog is the last gift from his wife, who is now dead because she played too much Club Penguin. The gangsters killing the dog to Wick is like them noscoping his wife, thus, in order to exact revenge and find peace, he does the biggest kill streak anyone has ever seen in this side of Americana.

Basically, if plot is the what, where, when and how, the story is the who and the why.

Okay, now that we have the ingredients, let's get the pot cooking.

THAT MAN HAS A GUN IN HIS HAND < HE'S A MAN WITH A GUN IN HIS HAND

Every story starts off with a philosophy, or a truth, or a lie, or just... something to believe in. Take a generic Isekai or something. Guy gets transported. His philosophy is that he either needs to get out of there and survive. Sooner or later, he experiences the world, and find out he's stuck here, permanently. Now his philosophy changes (unless depression and the good ol' noose comes for a visit). It changes from simply gtfo to just trying to live. That there is a simple story. Simple.

Now here's a simple plot with the same premise. Guy wakes up in a new world. He can't get out.

...

That's it, really.

the thing about story is that it's a quintessential ingredient for the story to be engaging for audiences. it is the one driving factor into anything happening in the story. Without a story it'd just be random ass people pulling out random ass stunts. Without a story, we don't get a why. it's just a how, what, when, where.

If you watch Citrus without a story it'd just be a poor, submissive chick getting raped by her new step-sister. Of course, it's still rape, but without the story it stays that way. Citrus' push-down-kissy-kissy scene is way more than just a kiss. It's a culmination of Mei's inner feelings lashed out in an instant as she can't help herself the moment Yuzu steps into her sights. For the story, we're given subtle hints and tiny details littered in the anime's dialogue and with those crucial plot devices, everything the girls do in the anime is now given reason. Without a reason, that scene with the hinted threesome would just end up as a cool hahafunnylmao scene and not a promise for the future in the anime's story.
I've never read Citrus at all. Really. I've never read it before or watched it my entire life. This all here is bullshit. Complete dogshit. Do not believe HIS lies.
Again, let's take something else. My Hero Macadamia. Let's take a look at Green Naruto. The plot itself is action-packed. Bunch of faggots go to school to learn faggot tricks in order to take down the bigger faggots doing bad faggotry that harms other faggots without faggot tricks. At this point you an see my intense bias against MHA. It's by all means an excellent story with good characters and everything but something in me just hates it. I hate how good it is and I wish it'll drown in a vat of Applebee Mashed Potatoes.That's the whole plot. The story here is that in a world filled with faggo- sorry, qUiRkS, there are Heroes and Villains. Heroes are trained to use their *huerk* for good while Villains just wanna have a good time committing casual homicide. The protagonists are heroes-in-training, each with their own unique abilities that tie in to their character motives and traits. Deku wants to suck All Might's dick and protect everyone he loves, thus One for All. (tbh that's the only example i can come up with but trust me when i say there's other characters with the same traits n' shiz)

Still in My Faggot Academia, the Hero Killer/Hunter/icouldntfuckingcareless arc tips the story over the plot, which is where MHA is known for. The plot is basically a Villain going around killing Heroes and some Villains, contradicting the Batman Sunday villains we saw in previous arcs. Plot alone, it's nothing to shout about.

STORY however, there's SOMETHING to shout about. Maybe it'll be louder if there was helium in that shit but by God it's so overhyped like why the hell the guy is just delusional there's nothing special it's not the next The Godfather it's just a wooo spooky are heroes really goody goody moment it's so overrated i swear why the hell the only morally provocative moment is the guy with flame mustache and all he is is an asshat the hero killerhunterwhatever is just a gimmick to stir this cinderblock of an anime watching paint dry is a more engaging activity what the fu-

AHEM, AHEM, sorry about that. the inner demons kinda got away. Where was I? Yeah, the story of THAT arc.

The story shows a morally gray area into the world of MHA. Are heroes really what they're portrayed to be? Are the heroes abusing their titles as heroes just so they could gain fame and all that shmanzy fancy shiz? What if there's a man who believes such motives, spent a second too long under a hot shower and decides he's the judge jury and executioner for the heroes? Even if the man's defeated, is his perception also invalid? Are heroes what they seem to be or is there a more darker side hidden into it. That particular arc shines because of the story driving the plot. Past arcs like that examination arc rely on plot. Without the big ugly guy, green Uzumaki would never advanced in his story and grow stronger in order to defeat the villains for the sake of protecting what he loves.

In this arc, however, the characters act upon their motives and traits, causing the story to take center stage while the plot is merely props for the story to present itself.

Which is better? A story that runs on plot that's just shock and awe or a thought-provoking story that makes you think as you walk away like damn that shit actually fucked me up

(Skip this part if you hate JJBA. Keep scrolling until you see bold text)


Which is why I love JoJo's Bizarre Adventure so much. As memable as the who series is, it actually dabbles with philosophy a hell lot. Starting from P5, anyway. I'mma try to draw a quick, understandable example from JJBA P7: Steel Ball Run. Mainly, it's antagonist - Funny Valentine, the 27th president of the great american states. The plot is janky. To show how janky it is, the author had to retcon Valentine's ability on his first reveal because of how broken OP he is. He can only pull himself and whatever he can carry at ONE instance from an alternate dimension, as opposed to the same thing but instead of one he can pull multiple at the SAME TIME. And even if it's retconned, it's still CANON. Yes, the thing is still canon. The antagonist's cancelled ability is still canon and affecting the main story.

Yet, to those who stick to JJBA, the plot is nothing when compared to the story (in later parts). In fact, the story is so good the fandom FORGAVE the broken plot. Funny Valentine's main drive is that he's a damn patriot. He's so patriotic he has a huge scar on his back carved in the shape of the American flag. If that ain't patriotic, i don't know what is. In fact, he's so patriotic that he's willing to kill for the sake of his country.

The main plot is that the protags and antag is chasing after something the corpse of Jesus Christ and that something the corpse of Jesus Christ has the ability to radiate good luck within its vicinity while bad luck happens somewhere else outside its vicinity. For example, if you shoot the thing the corpse of Jonah Hill in Chicago, not only will the bullet deliberately miss the thing my pp, someone in Brunei gets shot in the face at the same time. The thing the Jesus Christ of corpse basically deletes bad luck done towards itself and makes it happen to someone else.

Funny Valentine wants to use the thing and put it in the middle of the country so that only good luck happens to the country and bad luck happens everywhere else. He's so patriotic he's willing to kill innocent people, rape a young child that's birthing something the skull of Amen, shoot a crippled man and put a hit on an European cowboy in order for his dreams to come true.

That's the whole story for JUST THE ANTAGONIST ALONE. It's presented so much better than my crippled typing above in the story and it's so good, the fandom basically waved off his retconned-but-still-canon-ability because of how irrelevant it is to the story heavy plot.

A story so strong that its fans are willing to forgive the broken plot. You might argue that it is only a minority that thinks this way but calling the JJBA manga fans a minority is defo an understatement there, buddy. Don't believe me? Find the comment section for AC/DC. That's how small the fandom is.

In contrast, let's find a plot heavy story that completely negates story.

Transformers.

Now do you see my point?

A MAN WITH A GUN IN HIS HAND STILL NEEDS A GUN IN HIS HAND

Of course, though story has more prominence than plot, the story still needs a platform to support itself. Stephen Hawking isn't shit without his computerized wheelchair. Storytelling is best done when it's shown and not told.

A story itself is, like I said, a why and a who. Problem is, with only a why and a who, the story would be nothing but... a story. We're after all, still human. Without an external stimuli to add depth into a story's weight, it'll just be... boring. My Hero Macadamia can essentially end with Deku getting therapy. In fact, most stories can end if their characters get a therapy. If not, then a strong enough therapy would do. There IS a story in those situations. Deku gets therapy because of his crippling addiction of sucking AM's dick. A therapist talks him through how gay dat shit is and now he's as straight as the noodle. Now that's a story, but is it an interesting story? I'd watch the heck out of that therapist scene but no, it isn't interesting. I'd get like 2 rewatches before getting bored of it. All dialogue, no action in between.

Deku learns how to get off AM's dick by gaining power himself instead of just relying on the heroes to come save the day. He realizes that in order to stop that gay shit he must earn his own power, train to be stronger and be the dick himself. Now story wise, there ain't much difference. Deku still learns to suck less dick. BUT IN A MORE INTERESTING MANNER. Instead of confessing to a therapist, he punches the absolute shit out of something and sleeps the absolute shit out of that hospital bed. He still learns how not to suck dick, but he does it in a way that conveys his inner thoughts and feelings in the most efficient way possible.

An engine can be as powerful as it is but without wheels and a body, it's basically one loud motherfucker.

A GOOD MAN WITH A GOOD GUN IN HIS HANDS MAKES A GREAT MAN

This doesn't mean that story triumphs over plot like an unhealthy, dominating marriage. One of the hardest things writers could ever manage is striking a balance between both worlds. Having too much plot means your story loses meaning, thus being just people doing shit with loose reasons that don't even make sense. Having too much story makes your story look like a pretentious French art house, thus eliminating all sense of enjoyment and just making your story boring.

Let's take some western influences here. The Incredibles. Mr. Incredible's plot is that he's roped into this superhero killing plan and that it's his personal responsibility that he must defeat in order to save millions. His story is his superhero ego still retains and that he still wishes for a former glory, but that ego is killing him and his family relationship. What the movie did right is that he incorporates both story and plot together and have it interwoven so perfectly that it's a satisfying ride to watch. As Mr. I defeats the robot, he finds out that he's not alone, and that he should let go of his former ego and be super with the one thing that matters to him - his family. It's not a giant ohmygod plot and nor is it some heartstring im gonna die of heart attack story. Yet, they excel in their part and fit together like puzzle pieces which makes the movie very whole.

I FEAR NOT THE GUN BUT THE MAN

Regardless, story is still better than plot. I find myself accepting stories with good emotional investment even if the set pieces are as stale as sponge cake. If you give me something to think about and something to ponder when I lay awake at night, I'm taking it. Don't give me convoluted magic spells or systems that I couldn't care less. That Demon Lord Isekai had a concise magic system and I really, really couldn't give less of a shit. The characters were cardboard cut outs with tits slapped onto em' with abs being one exception.

Your Lie in April. Story heavy with little plot going on. Yet the plot complements the story. The story itself has little to no potential for really mind-blowing set pieces but the producers manage to strike the balance and get the most out of it. It slaps. Almost shed a tear. Never knew cancer would hurt a man this much, especially if you're not the dying one.

Redline. A plot heavy story with a little story in the middle, yet it still slaps. The plot has vibrant set pieces and gigantic action sequences but they aren't for naught. Behind them, the action were given build up with ample screen time given for the story to grow in order to give a good why and who to the how, what, when and where.

In Another World With My Smartphone. A plot heavy story with almost no story in betwee- oh- oh... oh. Sorry, halfway there I suddenly stopped caring.

You see how much a story gets affected if there isn't a suitable if not good story in it? You can have the biggest world-building I've ever seen or the most intricate magic systems in the whole world. If there's cardboard boxes with faces and tits using such systems, I COULDN'T CARE LESS. It's like politics. I don't even care about these old men in suits. Why would I care how the parliament runs and all that? I only care if they put out bullshit that just seems like it's considered on every aspect BUT common sense (brexit ahem ahem)

BUT, if you give me characters with good traits and motives and drives behind their action, you can rule-break every once in a while. It'll only dampen a little bit out of a whole, thick, enjoyable experience. Remember the plot holes from MHA? Yeah, you don't. You're so caught up and invested in Deku that you immediately get hooked on the story and continue chugging along. Remember the last time Star Platinum used Star Finger? Remember when Jotaro can only stop time for three seconds but on P6 he gets a powerup out of nowhere. You fucking don't. You're caught up on Polenareff trying to break his cursed spell and Pucci outrunning Jotaro's OP power with his more OP skill, showing that no matter how long you can stop time I can still move faster than you.

Good plot and good story makes a great experience. But if you were to drop one thing, drop the plot. It needn't be the next world-class, award-winning DnD set-up. If it's short and ample enough to give the story enough tools to present itself, then you've done your job as a writer - to tell a good story.

JESUS CHRIST THAT MAN WITH THE GUN IS ROBBING THE BANK WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT

now that ive covered my inner thoughts heres why you shouldnt listen to me

like, why?

you know who i am. dont fucking lie.

this is all bullshit, alright? ive only got like 2 wiki tabs and a youtube video on for reference. the rest is blind guesses and bullshit, really. what if im wrong. what if plot really is the important factor in a story? what if we're all blind men dismissing the prestigious Micheal bay because we couldnt get out heads out of the echo chamber?

im just a guy who likes a good story. i cant give two shits about your backstory. in fact, i usually skip those shit because what i need is context not the whole history. just tell me this place has spooky magic, slap on some ground rules and get going. BUT, if you can make a story great enough that actually implements every small detail you have in your world-building and magic-system, by all means go ahead and slap on that shit. otherwise, keep it locked in the glossary

alright my eyes are sagging and my balls are heavy imma gonna jack off ill see yall next time when i feel like it
I woah Woah woah there my dude. Calm your tits. I had war flashbacks to a war i never fought in tryna read that whole thing and now i got ptsd.

All's i know is if the novel, manga, anime/whatever you want to call it is entertaining then the story matters fuck all to this Laozi. Ya boi understands one thing and that thing is that shit be going down.

It's like porn. Sure it's better with a good story but we don't usually watch it for the story, eh?

Nah. Me, im in it for da sweet action.

Come, peasants. Entertain this God.
 

AMissingLinguist

Missing member
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
58
Points
73
Well done on presenting your argument for why a story should contain a story more than a plot. (I feel like there should be another word for story instead of "story". Maybe backstory?) Also, someone should stop that bank robber before he escapes. :blob_shock:
 

HURGMCGURG

That Guy
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
364
Points
133
FuCkIn, I agree with this shit to a certain extent but shut the fuck up you tangential motherfucker.

I gave up on watching longer anime because they ruined the plot. It was always story to story to story with a weak ass plot to go with it. Look at DBZ, it's got plenty of story and action, but the overall plot is "Alien boy gets hella swol and beats up assholes and aliens." I gave up on Macedemia Hero because there was too much story to plot. You have to break up plot with story, as we need to know how they get from point A to point B, but when you toss in too much story bullshit, it drags everything out to this point where it's diverged completely from what it should be about, and it's annoying as fuck. It's also part of the reason I hated Naruto, because they would drag out anything and everything to drag you along without moving the plot forward.

Story is an important thing, but too much story can ruin a good plot.
 
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LWFlouisa

Active member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
207
Points
43
I thought I knew what the thread was about.

I actually agree with the clickbait title though, but the crux of the matter: how a short story is plotted is generally pretty different from how say ... a novel is plotted, even when it's a collection of short stories with the same MC.

I ended up finding out, I'm just more suited for short fiction.
 

BenJepheneT

Light Up Gold - Parquet Courts
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
5,344
Points
233
FuCkIn, I agree with this shit to a certain extent but shut the fuck up you tangential motherfucker.

I gave up on watching longer anime because they ruined the plot. It was always story to story to story with a weak ass plot to go with it. Look at DBZ, it's got plenty of story and action, but the overall plot is "Alien boy gets hella swol and beats up assholes and aliens." I gave up on Macedemia Hero because there was too much story to plot. You have to break up plot with story, as we need to know how they get from point A to point B, but when you toss in too much story bullshit, it drags everything out to this point where it's diverged completely from what it should be about, and it's annoying as fuck. It's also part of the reason I hated Naruto, because they would drag out anything and everything to drag you along without moving the plot forward.

Story is an important thing, but too much story can ruin a good plot.
^
This doesn't mean that story triumphs over plot like an unhealthy, dominating marriage. One of the hardest things writers could ever manage is striking a balance between both worlds. Having too much plot means your story loses meaning, thus being just people doing shit with loose reasons that don't even make sense. Having too much story makes your story look like a pretentious French art house, thus eliminating all sense of enjoyment and just making your story boring.
 
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