ㅤ

[Jemini]

Well, if you insist. But first, gotta catch you up on the background stuff.

Once again, if we look at a general world-scale, it is easy to see where the nihilistic perspective on kindness comes from. Thing is, kindness has it's place. It is something you need to show to others within your own community. In other words, the people you interact with frequently and depend on for your support network.

Meanwhile, if you are encountering someone from an out-group, they are not someone who will be around to remember your kindness, and they are also not someone who would feel the consequences for being an ass-hole. So, they are far more likely to be an ass-hole to you because they can get away with it and reap the immediate benefits. These are the kinds of people you need to show strength to instead of kindness. And, if you are an unkind person, they are also the kind of people you can get away with being an ass-hole toward yourself if you make the same calculation. But, doing so will harm you in the eyes of the people within your own community, so it's not recommended.

Ultimately, it's actually the breaking down of these interpersonal support networks that is leading to an increase in unkindness in the world. If the government starts giving people everything, people have less reason to be kind. But, this will not ultimately lead to a good outcome.

(I've strayed about as far as I can into this subject without risking a violation of the no politics rule.)

 

[Shard]

I prefer to act in a manner that I believe improves the world and the people in it. Due to this, I come across as being kind, but it often causes problems because people suck. If someone is following me, I hold the door for them, especially if their hands are full. I've been reported to HR for sexual harassment because I held the door for a woman with both arms full. Last I checked, that was simply being kind and helping out, but apparently it means I don't think women are capable of opening doors? Total bullshit, and luckily, HR agreed, especially since I often held the doors for them too.

Very simple example, but I believe it says all that needs to be said. I still prefer to help when I can, but I am tired of people trying to find negative meaning in my attempts to be polite/helpful/nice/kind/whatever. IMO you should simply act to reduce the net suffering in the world, and if people have a problem with it, that is their problem, not yours.

Edit: I hate miswording. Woman for singular, women for plural. Doh.

 

[SailusGebel]

Well, if you insist. But first, gotta catch you up on the background stuff.

Once again, if we look at a general world-scale, it is easy to see where the nihilistic perspective on kindness comes from. Thing is, kindness has it's place. It is something you need to show to others within your own community. In other words, the people you interact with frequently and depend on for your support network.

Meanwhile, if you are encountering someone from an out-group, they are not someone who will be around to remember your kindness, and they are also not someone who would feel the consequences for being an ass-hole. So, they are far more likely to be an ass-hole to you because they can get away with it and reap the immediate benefits. These are the kinds of people you need to show strength to instead of kindness. And, if you are an unkind person, they are also the kind of people you can get away with being an ass-hole toward yourself if you make the same calculation. But, doing so will harm you in the eyes of the people within your own community, so it's not recommended.

Ultimately, it's actually the breaking down of these interpersonal support networks that is leading to an increase in unkindness in the world. If the government starts giving people everything, people have less reason to be kind. But, this will not ultimately lead to a good outcome.

(I've strayed about as far as I can into this subject without risking a violation of the no politics rule.)

Meh, I expected more.

 

[TotallyHuman]

you've never met someone who wanted a tip?

we don't do tips in my country. Not anywhere I've eaten anyway.

 

[BlackKnightX]

No. Being kind is the best thing one can and should do. But! Being kind doesn't mean being a pushover. When people are mean to you, you have to see right through them. Most of them lead a bitter life and are broken in some way, which leads them to put up a defense mechanism or just vent out their anger and frustration on you. Also, being kind for the sake of being kind will make you appear fake.

Just be yourself. You've seen this everywhere, I know, but it's true, and not many gets it. You see, when people try to be themselves, they're not really being themselves, they're just being "who they think they are." But being yourself doesn't need any trying. You don't "try" to be yourself, you just... be.

When talking to someone, instead of focusing on how you should present yourself, why not focus on the person you're talking to for a change? They are the most important person in the world at that moment. Respect them. Not by being humble and submissive. But actually accept their presence, focus on them, listen, connect. There's no human connection if you're busy thinking about yourself.

 

[SailusGebel]

No. Being kind is the best thing one can and should do. But! Being kind doesn't mean being a pushover. When people are mean to you, you have to see right through them. Most of them lead a bitter life and are broken in some way, which leads them to put up a defense mechanism or just vent out their anger and frustration on you. Also, being kind for the sake of being kind will make you appear fake.

Just be yourself. You've seen this everywhere, I know, but it's true, and not many gets it. You see, when people try to be themselves, they're not really being themselves, they're just being "who they think they are." But being yourself doesn't need any trying. You don't "try" to be yourself, you just... be.

When talking to someone, instead of focusing on how you should present yourself, why not focus on the person you're talking to for a change? They are the most important person in the world at that moment. Respect them. Not by being humble and submissive. But actually accept their presence, focus on them, listen, connect. There's no human connection if you're busy thinking about yourself.

Bruh.

 

[BlackKnightX]

Bruh.

Fuck off.

Now, instead of punching this bastard in the nose, I just leave it with kind words. That's what it means to be kind. Remember that.

 

[SailusGebel]

Fuck off.

Now, instead of punching this bastard in the nose, I just leave it with kind words. That's what it means to be kind. Remember that.

Bruh.

 

[Tyranomaster]

When I was in middle school I used to think this way. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but understand I've been there.

From your comment, I would take it that you weren't being kind. Kindness also includes your intent. It is very rarely that people get burned for actually being kind. When doing a kind act, your ONLY motive should be good, any ulterior motives, and its not a kind or selfless act, its a performance meant to signal virtue.

Examples of kind acts that I try to do on a regular basis:

1. Hold doors open for people who are approaching. Its a small act, but technically, it is kind. I have no ulterior motive other than it saves other people energy since I've already pulled open the door. The only way you get burned here is if the person doesn't want to enter the place, damn.

2. Helping elderly people in the grocery store (including by not limited to occasionally offering to pay for an elderly person if they have a small number of items). The only potential benefit I personally receive is that caring and nice communities have lower crime rates, so yes, I guess I'm being selfish here. I have yet to see how I can be harmed by this, unless a criminal decided I must be rich and mugged me afterwards.

3. Helpful acts of labor to loved ones. It may not be my turn to wash dishes, but I'll do them anyway. I don't expect anything back for doing this, its just that I currently have free time either while I cook, or after dinner, so I wash some dishes. Again, yet to be burned by this.

4. Back when I was an engineer and did a lot of work travel, I'd occasionally give generous tips at restaurants. Not because I even liked the service, or the person. Why? Because I know from experience (back when I worked during summers of college) that a large tip can literally make someone's day. Then they're happier, and they spread that happiness to other people they know. Two new years ago, I gave a $100 dollar tip to an Indian restaurant that my fiance and I ordered from on New Year's Day. It was just the wife and husband working, and they had lots of employees wanted signs. Their young kids where sitting in the room. They were very happy to get the money, and I wanted to make sure they had a good new year's day even though it seemed like times were rough.

If however, like when I was in middle-school, and my intention was being nice to get women's attention, then it is easy to feel like you've been slighted, because you EXPECT a reward for good behavior. Again, I'll reiterate. If you're being kind, you don't get burned, or feel like you're getting screwed over. What you're actually doing is trying to signal that you are virtuous, while actually being manipulative. Which means you were already being an asshole. True kindness doesn't expect reward or even recognition.

The real reward of kindness is happier and nicer communities with lower crime rates and better social support structures.

 

[Anon2024]

When I was in middle school I used to think this way. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but understand I've been there.

While I may agree your advice applies for the small things, I don’t know if it applies to the OP.

good advice though.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

There was that phase of me where I was overzealous and idealistic. It even came to the point where I gave my 'life and career', so I can save my students. It left me exhausted, and the people around me suffered. And the monster I gave my 'everything' to 'defeat' eventually is making his comeback to prey on more children.

Talk about a wasted time and your 'oath of duty' trampled.

Fast forward to today, while I love sharing 'kindness' from time to time (like working on free artworks to make someone's day), there's the 'me' that has his guard up. While I refuse to blame the society I'm in for what happened, at the very least, I want to have little to nothing to do with others. I mean, look, it's easy to say 'Stand up when you see something wrong'; believe me, I want to, and I already did it. But what it cost me? Death threats. Stress. A broken life.

While still trying to hold on to whatever kindness left within me, I make sure that no one will abuse me. After all, one cannot give what he doesn't have. I became bitter from my experience, I admit. However, at the very least, when something bad is done to me, I let it end with me; I don't pass it to others. That's the 'kindness' I can give to my community nowadays.

 

[SailusGebel]

There was that phase of me where I was overzealous and idealistic. It even came to the point where I gave my 'life and career', so I can save my students. It left me exhausted, and the people around me suffered. And the monster I gave my 'everything' to 'defeat' eventually is making his comeback to prey on more children.

Fast forward to today, while I love sharing 'kindness' from time to time (like working on free artworks to make someone's day), there's the 'me' that has his guard up. While I refuse to blame the society I'm in for what happened, at the very least, I want to have little to nothing to do with others. I mean, look, it's easy to say 'Stand up when you see something wrong'; believe me, I want to, and I already did it. But what it cost me? Death threats. Stress. A broken life.

While still trying to hold on to whatever kindness left within me, I make sure that no one will abuse me. After all, one cannot give what he doesn't have. I became bitter from my experience, I admit. However, at the very least, when something bad is done to me, I let it end with me; I don't pass it to others. That's the 'kindness' I can give to my nowadays.

Teddy bruh.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Teddy bruh.

Still, thanks for the words of support to me, you and the crew.

 

[SailusGebel]

i just wanted to save someone, but all i got was a whole month or more of punishment

so yeah, from now on, im going to mind my own fucking business and stop being kind

jesus christ was crucified for being kind

actually, now that i think about it, i wasn't being kind, i was being stupid

Bruh.

 

[Anon2024]

. However, at the very least, when something bad is done to me, I let it end with me; I don't pass it to others. That's the 'kindness' I can give to my community nowadays.

see I would spread the misery while not letting it affect me.

if enough people are miserable, society will change.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

i just wanted to save someone, but all i got was a whole month or more of punishment

so yeah, from now on, im going to mind my own fucking business and stop being kind

jesus christ was crucified for being kind

actually, now that i think about it, i wasn't being kind, i was being stupid

Ah, you know, I think we're both Christians. I was also spurred by the belief that helping someone would 'justify' me in the end.

However, we live in an imperfect world, thus, it's safe to say "It's the assholes who win in the end."

Wisdom and kindness can go hand-in-hand. While we learn from our bad experiences, it doesn't mean we should be a jerk and pass what we get to others who have nothing to do with our issues.

Also @Nefar, while we do want to save people, the fact remains that the final decision will be on them. If they want to save themselves, they will cooperate with us. If they want status quo, they will only make us miserable and drag us with them. We can't force anyone...no matter how painful for us to watch them go down in flames.

Isn't the principle of Christian salvation like that? Share the gospel; if the people accept, then it's good. If they don't, then leave them be.

 

[T.K._Paradox]

There was that phase of me where I was overzealous and idealistic. It even came to the point where I gave my 'life and career', so I can save my students. It left me exhausted, and the people around me suffered. And the monster I gave my 'everything' to 'defeat' eventually is making his comeback to prey on more children.

Talk about a wasted time and your 'oath of duty' trampled.

Fast forward to today, while I love sharing 'kindness' from time to time (like working on free artworks to make someone's day), there's the 'me' that has his guard up. While I refuse to blame the society I'm in for what happened, at the very least, I want to have little to nothing to do with others. I mean, look, it's easy to say 'Stand up when you see something wrong'; believe me, I want to, and I already did it. But what it cost me? Death threats. Stress. A broken life.

While still trying to hold on to whatever kindness left within me, I make sure that no one will abuse me. After all, one cannot give what he doesn't have. I became bitter from my experience, I admit. However, at the very least, when something bad is done to me, I let it end with me; I don't pass it to others. That's the 'kindness' I can give to my community nowadays.

Your suffering is not in vain Hans, regardless on what you might think.

There are people that appreciate you for your kind actions and sacrifices, and hope to see you reap those rewards for doing so.

Godspeed, dude.

 

[SailusGebel]

Ah, you know, I think we're both Christians.

Btw, isn't it kinda fitting? I know almost nothing about Christianity, and I don't want to go off-topic, but isn't this one of the main themes of Christianity? Sacrificing oneself to help others? Or is it Eastern Orthodoxy thing?

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Your suffering is not in vain Hans, regardless on what you might think.

There are people that appreciate you for your kind actions and sacrifices, and hope to see you reap those rewards for doing so.

Godspeed, dude.

Thanks, man! Receiving words like these ease my pain. This is why I love this community XD

Btw, isn't it kinda fitting? I know almost nothing about Christianity, and I don't want to go off-topic, but isn't this one of the main themes of Christianity? Sacrificing oneself to help others? Or is it Eastern Orthodoxy thing?

It is. But there was also a passage in the Bible where it was told, "Be meek as a sheep but wise as a serpent". It implores us to sacrifice for others, though not to let ourselves be abused.

In the Book of Acts, Peter caused punishment (death) to the couple that gave them proceeds from a property they cheated upon.

@SailusGebel another example I would point is what I'm doing now. I sacrifice my time, talent, and materials for you guys (though I do it because I love this community, and would like to be friends with everyone...if possible). But when I'm tired, you won't see me offering free artwork around; or I give myself time to rest.

Sacrifice and abuse may be synonymous to some, but look, sacrifice is something you 'know' it's worth time and effort to invest with. Like what I did to that pedophile when I exposed his crimes; do I think it's worth the time and effort? Yes, because I saved my students from him. Will I repeat what I did? Nope. Because by this time, I know that it won't be the same as before. (I learned)

Abuse is...well, that repeated situation where you don't learn.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Thanks, man! Receiving words like these ease my pain. This is why I love this community XD

It is. But there was also a passage in the Bible where it was told, "Be meek as a sheep but wise as a serpent". It implores us to sacrifice for others, though not to let ourselves be abused.

In the Book of Acts, Peter caused punishment (death) to the couple that gave them proceeds from a property they cheated upon.

@SailusGebel another example I would point is what I'm doing now. I sacrifice my time, talent, and materials for you guys (though I do it because I love this community, and would like to be friends with everyone...if possible). But when I'm tired, you won't see me offering free artwork around; or I give myself time to rest.

Sacrifice and abuse may be synonymous to some, but look, sacrifice is something you 'know' it's worth time and effort to invest with. Like what I did to that pedophile when I exposed his crimes; do I think it's worth the time and effort? Yes, because I saved my students from him. Will I repeat what I did? Nope.

Abuse is...well, that repeated situation where you don't learn.

I would like these posts but I'm at the maximum for the day.