A few little ideas

[Assurbanipal_II]

We all here like scribblehub, or at least you have a passing interest in its continued existence.

Therefore, I would like to suggest a few changes that could be made.

a) I would like to see an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters. Not obligatory, but facultative.

b) Being able to remove your given ratings. Maybe I have overlooked it, but so far I haven't found any possible way to remove ratings you have given. If you have rated a story, you can only change them by going higher or lower, but not delete them when you have changed your opinion.

c) Perhaps a list for stories you have rated would be useful, or a list for all stories that you have somehow interacted with that runs in the background like a browsing history.

On a less serious note,

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam and that ratings should be made public for the authors of the respective stories.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

This is basically where the whole thing hinges on. This is less about accessibility and more about the reaction this community would give. Say Tony made a giant fucking wager and implemented the system. If no major freak-out happens, the system stays. If a witch hunt is gathered at some point in the future, the system has to go.

It's a big fucken bet to play. So far I haven't seen anyone with the potential nor capacity to actually stake out for one stars. The most I think someone would do is either take it on the DMs, directly confront them in their own account or offhandedly refer to them in a passive aggressive way in the forums while quoting Latin.

So it's down to this; no one knows for sure how civilized we Scribblers are until all bets are on the table. If you really want this feature to be implemented successfully, beg from @Tony and don't chimp out when you finally found that 1* fiend.

Bene snowflake, your passive aggressiveness is unappreciated.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

PPS: My Latin is a little weak @Assurbanipal_II . Speak in English

I have an easy solution for you then, start learning Latin. It is fun.

 

[GDLiZy]

Looks all valid, apart from the making rating public thing. I don't want anyone looking through my reading list or, god forbid, send me a DM just because I rated their story!
Even if SH is all pseudo-names, it won't be nice experience for authors demanding explanations for a rating. Personally if I invest enough to leave a review, I won't mind the author contacting me.

Authors have chosen to make their work a matter of public domain and for that they are rewarded with readership and if lucky monetization. They should expect a little criticism or haters.
Readers rate or review because they read a story. Not for any other benefits.
Now, I'm afraid making things transparent would make readers from rating itself or at best rate anything other than a 5*... Afterall who would want the hassle just for reading a story.


P.S. The other suggestions sound great

PPS: My Latin is a little weak @Assurbanipal_II . Speak in English

I agree with this sentiment.

The ability to potentially open the witch-hunting floodgate is damning to the community and the site.

In contrary to the speculation that 1-star rating, the trolls will still troll, but the actual 1-star ratings might disappear because of the implied threat. If that is the case then the rating will only serve as a inflated like button.

Even if only one person does it, a rotten apple spoils the whole box.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I agree with this sentiment.

The ability to potentially open the witch-hunting floodgate is damning to the community and the site.

In contrary to the speculation that 1-star rating, the trolls will still troll, but the actual 1-star ratings might disappear because of the implied threat. If that is the case then the rating will only serve as a inflated like button.

Even if only one person does it, a rotten apple spoils the whole box.

You fear change. Nothing more, nothing less. You dramatise the potential consequences by exaggerating beyond what is realistic and call every form of discussion witchhunts a priori.

You accuse many authors here of being unable to take criticism, but you are the first to denigrate every form of action as witchhunt, which only shows your profound inability to take criticism.

There is a tendency in recent times to take every argument immediately personal and your are no exception. In fact, you only encourage this evolution by suppressing any form of interaction.

Of course, there will ne harassment from part of the author, and of course there will be name calling, but how are authors supposed to mature in this regard if they never had the chance to learn better.

I believe in the authors here on scribble, and I believe they will eventually learn sooner than later to deal with criticism.


PS. "a rotten apple spoils the whole box."

So you believe it is better to sentence 100 innocents than let 1 criminal roam free? It is the same logic.

 

[GDLiZy]

You fear change. Nothing more, nothing less. You dramatise the potential consequences by exaggerating beyond what is realistic and call every form of discussion witchhunts a priori.

You accuse many authors here of being unable to take criticism, but you are the first to denigrate every form of action as witchhunt, which only shows your profound inability to take criticism.

There is a tendency in recent times to take every argument immediately personal and your are no exception. In fact, you only encourage this evolution by suppressing any form of interaction.

Of course, there will ne harassment from part of the author, and of course there will be name calling, but how are authors supposed to mature in this regard if they never had the chance to learn better.

I believe in the authors here on scribble, and I believe they will eventually learn sooner than later to deal with criticism.


PS. "a rotten apple spoils the whole box."

So you believe it is better to sentence 100 innocents than let 1 criminal roam free? It is the same logic.

Please challenge my claim with logic and civility or drop it.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Please challenge my claim with logic and civility or drop it.

I try, I try. But even I fail.

 

[AkalE]

I don't have a better suggestion to balance both, and as such would prefer the existing tried system to continue.

I understand people wanting readers to be held accountable for their rating. It does affect the novel's rating... But just knowing who rated the story 1-star doesn't really change the core demand for an reasoning for the poor rating. Instead this could drastically impact the reader-base.

Considering that most authors seem be in their early teens and write self-insert wish-fulfillment stories, I wouldn't be too shocked if someone was fed up of not getting the success and deciding to go after 1-star raters before going AWOL from the site themselves. in such cases, the author might return with a different account but the reader will probably not return to SH, essentially a bunch of stories losing that one reader.

I want to thing everyone will be responsible. But I fear that isn't true...


Also,

Please don't stop...
@Assurbanipal_II @GDLiZy

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I don't have a better suggestion to balance both, and as such would prefer the existing tried system to continue.

I understand people wanting readers to be held accountable for their rating. It does affect the novel's rating... But just knowing who rated the story 1-star doesn't really change the core demand for an reasoning for the poor rating. Instead this could drastically impact the reader-base.

Considering that most authors seem be in their early teens and write self-insert wish-fulfillment stories, I wouldn't be too shocked if someone was fed up of not getting the success and deciding to go after 1-star raters before going AWOL from the site themselves. in such cases, the author might return with a different account but the reader will probably not return to SH, essentially a bunch of stories losing that one reader.

I want to thing everyone will be responsible. But I fear that isn't true...


Also,

Please don't stop...
@Assurbanipal_II @GDLiZy

True enough. There will be irresponsible cases the same way an ignoramus was elected US president.

But I believe communication is always better. Certainly, there will be drawbacks and that is a risk we need to take, but silence has never helped and will only nurture resentment and anger. So my motto, change through communication.

PS. There is so little feedback on scribblehub anyway that I am not really scared by the potential fallout. There are few reviews and the number of comments is so limited that I believe it can't get worse.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

We all here like scribblehub, or at least you have a passing interest in its continued existence.

Therefore, I would like to suggest a few changes that could be made.

a) I would like to see an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters. Not obligatory, but facultative.

b) Being able to remove your given ratings. Maybe I have overlooked it, but so far I haven't found any possible way to remove ratings you have given. If you have rated a story, you can only change them by going higher or lower, but not delete them when you have changed your opinion.

c) Perhaps a list for stories you have rated would be useful, or a list for all stories that you have somehow interacted with that runs in the background like a browsing history.

On a less serious note,

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam and that ratings should be made public for the authors of the respective stories.

I support the first one! lol... I've been reading to escape from writing my fiction. Notifications is a must!!!

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I support the first one! lol... I've been reading to escape from writing my fiction. Notifications is a must!!!

If that is the case, then you can read my story as well.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

If that is the case, then you can read my story as well.

Perfect! Its title is in Latin and I am learning the "vulgar latin". lol

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Perfect! Its title is in Latin and I am learning the "vulgar latin". lol

Spanish, French or Italian?

 

[Deleted member 2533]

Spanish, French or Italian?

Español.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Español.

Ah, understood, amigo.

 

[Alverost]

Should add the feature request prefix to the thread's title.

 

[Ace_Arriande]

I really don't think it would lead to witch hunts or threats from authors or anything any more than being able to see the names of reviewers does. Would it happen? Probably, I'm sure. Even in my time on Royal Road, you could find reviews where the reviewers updated their reviews to say that the author went after them after seeing the review. There are cases of authors taking some reviewer's story, if they were also an author, and revenge-rating it, giving the name and story to other people to rating/review bomb it, and so on. Would these same authors do it to people who leave simple ratings rather than negative reviews? Probably. However, these authors were always in the tiny minority of people who actually did this, and I never heard of it negatively impacting the platform nor people's perceptions of it. Not to mention that it counts as targeted harassment, can be reported, and then the author at question should get in trouble over it and that will discourage them and others from doing it.

Is it an important feature to add? I don't think so, but it's still something I'd support if it was added. The other stuff like notifications for chapter releases is far more important, imo.

But just knowing who rated the story 1-star doesn't really change the core demand for an reasoning for the poor rating.

Well, it can. Like I said before, if you can see somebody who rated your story and see other stories that they've rated, now you can put together what sort of bias they have. If you see that somebody poorly rates every single harem novel that they see, for example, then you can put together the reason "this person hates harem novels." If they poorly rate every non-harem while giving every harem 5-stars, you can assume the opposite. It lets you figure out the rater's bias, and bias is often the reason behind ratings in the first place.

In contrary to the speculation that 1-star rating, the trolls will still troll, but the actual 1-star ratings might disappear because of the implied threat. If that is the case then the rating will only serve as a inflated like button.

This is true. It's even been proven in some studies before that something like the ability to reply to reviews, and seeing business owners do so, creates an implied threat of sorts that stops people from leaving negative reviews. People are naturally averse to conflict. Knowing that somebody's ratings can be seen would create a higher chance for conflict. However, this was portrayed as a positive thing that businesses should take advantage of.

And while I might disagree with exploiting that as an intimidation tactic, something I often see is telling authors to grow thick skins. Heck, even I'm guilty of telling people to grow thick skins if they want to post on platforms with rating systems where anybody can see their story. But maybe, in the same way that authors should grow thick skins, the reviewers/raters should as well (if we're going to be telling authors to get thicker skins). We're putting our stories on the internet. They're putting their opinions on the internet. I still disagree with replying to reviewers, messaging them to try and change their mind or to get their reasoning, so on and so on, and I think that 1-star ratings without reason will forever be a part of any rating system that there's really not anything we can do about other than removing the rating system completely, but we can at least apply the same standards that we apply to authors to raters.

All of that aside, giv Steam's rating system pls. It's the only good rating system there is, and by good I mean least bad.

Also would you people stop making me take Assurb's side on something? Seriously, it's messed up. This is two days in a row now!

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Is it an important feature to add? I don't think so, but it's still something I'd support if it was added. The other stuff like notifications for chapter releases is far more important, imo.

<.< I can only agree. Very very very important.

I have lost sight on so many good stories on NUF because of a lack of notifications. After some time of missing updates, you just don't look actively anymore.

 

[JayDirex]

The whole one star witch hunt thing is ridiculous. Here's why. if you implement: "In order to give one, or two stars, you must give a review, with a word count minimum (like crunchyroll does)." That right there stops any BS about witch hunts.

because if the reader feels so strongly about giving one star, and must provide a review behind it...that means that person must really want to let the author know what he/she feels. And if that is the case then they have no problem if an author replies.

Here's the bottom line: Stop making it easy to give one star. Because the problem of ease is why trolls are allowed to act with abandon. If you place a fence at that one-three star spot, then it will hinder the impulse hater who gives a one star because his life sucks! He won't be interested in writing a review, and if he writes nonsense he can be flagged.

This is an Eco system of AUTHORS and READERS: Authors are being hurt by trolls abusing the one star. if you fence it you can better protect the authors, and you will NOT BE HURTING any reader. Readers can still read the story, they can still rate it too. but if they want to PISS ON THE STORY, (which is a one star) then have them justify it. You're not asking for their passport, just a reason why they're pissing on this author's hard work.

 

[Moonpearl]

I never found a reader stupid enough to rate me 1 star and make their reading list not public. You can only find 5 stars by that method while 1 stars completely slip under the radar.

I mean, I would do this, but I wouldn't bother putting anything of one-star quality on my reading list to begin with.

I'm quite surprised at the number of people who want "an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters (sic)". I'm not saying not to implement this because one can always opt not to use it btw. It's just, isn't that what the reading list is for? How is getting an alert much different then checking your reading list, besides the fact that you get a distracting notification? And if you don't check SH that often, you'll just get tons of alerts in an unorganized fashion. And for those irregular released stories, you can always just sort reading list by last updated (or unread), so if it never updates in a year, it'll stay hidden at the bottom of the list. Enlighten me folks, on why you want this.

I wouldn't want it for every story (way, way too cluttered), but it would be nice to get notifications for the few series I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for. The sooner I can drop everything and read those, the better.

And while I might disagree with exploiting that as an intimidation tactic, something I often see is telling authors to grow thick skins. Heck, even I'm guilty of telling people to grow thick skins if they want to post on platforms with rating systems where anybody can see their story. But maybe, in the same way that authors should grow thick skins, the reviewers/raters should as well (if we're going to be telling authors to get thicker skins). We're putting our stories on the internet. They're putting their opinions on the internet. I still disagree with replying to reviewers, messaging them to try and change their mind or to get their reasoning, so on and so on, and I think that 1-star ratings without reason will forever be a part of any rating system that there's really not anything we can do about other than removing the rating system completely, but we can at least apply the same standards that we apply to authors to raters.

Eh, I disagree that readers should be held to the same standards as authors. Readers are supposed to be the passive everyman. If you suddenly require your readers to make effort, you're just going to have few to no readers.

Also, readers can only add their own tiny opinion onto a novel, and the only damage it will do is that it hurts the author's ego. But authors can and often will drum up their readership for a witch hunt to "avenge" them. It happened pretty recently when an author felt offended, right?

Lastly, readers abstain from interaction with authors when they're attacked and that affects everyone. Authors, on the other hand, will throw themselves about the place like they're in some Shakespearean tragedy, all "woe is me" and doing absolutely nothing of interest except refusing to accept criticism (or sometimes even praise, ffs) gracefully. Upsetting readers does far more damage than upsetting authors.

 

[Ace_Arriande]

Eh, I disagree that readers should be held to the same standards as authors. Readers are supposed to be the passive everyman. If you suddenly require your readers to make effort, you're just going to have few to no readers.

It is true that every little bit of effort added will stop more people from leaving ratings and reviews. That's why I'm against forcing people to leave reviews or attaching reasons to their ratings. Do that and the "quality" of reviews might go up, but it's going to cause a significant decrease in overall reviews/ratings which is more harmful than having random people dropping 1-stars simply because they don't like a story. This is simply making it so that ratings would be public, though. It's just like if you add a story to your reading list (or your reviews/favorites on RR). They're all visible to anybody who looks. People still add books to their reading lists. People still review/favorite stories on RR. There's no extra effort involved. Is there a tiny bit of extra "risk" in the event of pissing off an author who doesn't know how to hold back their ego? There is, but there's always a risk of upsetting some random person on the internet. I don't see any reason for ratings to be anonymous when reviews, comments, reading lists, and so on aren't. You can even track who is reading your story and what chapter they're on which is, in my opinion, more invasive than being able to see who rated your story.

Realistically, since this would--admittedly--discourage some 1-stars, stories would have higher average ratings and that would bring in new readers. Would it mean the scores are inflated and not really that accurate? Absolutely, but it wouldn't decrease the amount of readers. Most readers don't think about things like the average scores of a website and whether or not they might be inflated. Most readers look at a high number and that's it. High numbers good. Anyways, I don't mean to encourage inflating the ratings or anything. I would prefer a way to get much more honest ratings without discouraging people. The vast majority of stories, my own included, should probably have significantly lower ratings than they do seeing as how a "3" is supposed to be the average, not a "4.3." I just wanted to point out that, technically, I believe it would probably boost the reader count since this only really affects people leaving negative ratings.

Also, readers can only add their own tiny opinion onto a novel, and the only damage it will do is that it hurts the author's ego. But authors can and often will drum up their readership for a witch hunt to "avenge" them. It happened pretty recently when an author felt offended, right?

They can and they often won't. Hundreds of authors, every single day, get new, scathing reviews and ratings on their stories on RR and SH. Tens of thousands of authors if you want to bring Amazon into the equation. The people who actually go and cause witch hunts are not only in the extreme minority, but they tank their reputation over their inflated egos by doing so. It only does more harm to them to try and get revenge ratings. These people also tend to be the loudest, though. Vocal minority and all. The vast majority of authors realize that's simply how it is and don't really give enough of a shit to go and hunt people down and wage war over it. Though, even they would generally like to at least know why they got a rating, and this can help with that.

Lastly, readers abstain from interaction with authors when they're attacked and that affects everyone. Authors, on the other hand, will throw themselves about the place like they're in some Shakespearean tragedy, all "woe is me" and doing absolutely nothing of interest except refusing to accept criticism (or sometimes even praise, ffs) gracefully. Upsetting readers does far more damage than upsetting authors.

Again, let's let readers grow some thicker skins then if we're going to apply that same standard to authors. For example, somebody recently posted about how they felt attacked by an author. I saw somebody talking about it, so I was curious and went to look up what they might have been talking about. They made the author sound pretty bad, so I wanted to know if the author was as bad as they sounded. All I ended up seeing was a perfectly mature and sensible conversation between author and reader with the author being patient, respectful, and calm when explaining the purpose of their story to their reader. Yet, the reader made it sound like the author was attacking them and purposely trying to make them feel bad behind the author's back, when really the author didn't do anything wrong. The reader didn't do anything wrong, either. At least up until they went and made the situation sound far more dramatic than it actually was while implying that authors on the website have a consistent problem with replying to comments. All the author did was reply to a commenter with an honest, calm explanation. The author even apologized despite having no need to. Who was it that went all "woe is me?" Well, certainly not the author in this case.

Anyways, my point is that readers are every bit as guilty of this as authors are, yet we only apply the standard to authors rather than readers. The little story I just told above isn't anywhere near the worst that I've seen from authors. Heck, part of the reason why I stopped replying to critical comments on stories was because, the vast majority of the time that I tried to explain myself to somebody, all it did was start a giant pile of steaming shit with the commenters accusing me of being incapable of handling criticism. Even if you point out that they are just straight-up wrong about something, perhaps because they misread or skipped a chapter without realizing it, then they make it sound like they're being attacked and like the author is the one at fault. That's why I always let other readers call these sorts of people out on their shit instead of doing it myself, because doing it myself only gets me attacked with people flailing all over the place going "woe is me." Heck, one time I told a guy who left a homophobic comment on my story that it was okay to drop it, but that he should never tell any author (not just me) to not write what they want to write. That's pretty fair, right? "Hey, it's alright if you don't like my story, but I hope you don't seriously tell other authors to not create the stories that they want to create." That, at least as far as I'm concerned, is perfectly fair. How did they reply? By attacking my character, telling me I'm incapable of handling criticism, and that I'm not as good as I think I am. And that's not the first time it happened. It's happened a lot to me and other authors. That's why I'm against stuff like replying to reviews, even though in the above case, such a shit fest in the comments can lead to the person in question leaving a negative review with ill intent that could be called out in a comment to the review. It could help, but all it would do is continue the cycle of shit flinging. All it does is stir the pot of shit and make the place stink. Maybe if readers stopped throwing themselves all around the place like they're in some Shakespearean tragedy, though, then it would be better.

And just as a final note on the "upsetting readers does far more damage than upsetting authors" thing: I've seen dozens of readers over the last three years quit writing web novels completely because they didn't know why they were getting negative ratings or who was leaving them. I've seen 0 readers stop reading web novels because an author was mad at them. There are thousands of new, potential readers for every reader you might lose on a story. There aren't thousands of new, potential authors for every author you lose due to negativity. So, again. If we're going to hold authors to high standards and tell them to grow a thicker skin, then I damn well believe we should be applying the same to readers.