A few little ideas

Assurbanipal_II

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:blob_cookie: We all here like scribblehub, or at least you have a passing interest in its continued existence.

Therefore, I would like to suggest a few changes that could be made.

a) I would like to see an option for getting an automatic notification when certain stories are updated and receive a new chapters. Not obligatory, but facultative. :blob_evil_two:

b) Being able to remove your given ratings.:blobtaco: Maybe I have overlooked it, but so far I haven't found any possible way to remove ratings you have given. If you have rated a story, you can only change them by going higher or lower, but not delete them when you have changed your opinion.

c) Perhaps a list for stories you have rated would be useful, or a list for all stories that you have somehow interacted with that runs in the background like a browsing history. :blob_hide:

On a less serious note,

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam and that ratings should be made public for the authors of the respective stories.
 
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Moonpearl

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It is true that every little bit of effort added will stop more people from leaving ratings and reviews. That's why I'm against forcing people to leave reviews or attaching reasons to their ratings. Do that and the "quality" of reviews might go up, but it's going to cause a significant decrease in overall reviews/ratings which is more harmful than having random people dropping 1-stars simply because they don't like a story. This is simply making it so that ratings would be public, though. It's just like if you add a story to your reading list (or your reviews/favorites on RR). They're all visible to anybody who looks. People still add books to their reading lists. People still review/favorite stories on RR. There's no extra effort involved. Is there a tiny bit of extra "risk" in the event of pissing off an author who doesn't know how to hold back their ego? There is, but there's always a risk of upsetting some random person on the internet. I don't see any reason for ratings to be anonymous when reviews, comments, reading lists, and so on aren't. You can even track who is reading your story and what chapter they're on which is, in my opinion, more invasive than being able to see who rated your story.

Realistically, since this would--admittedly--discourage some 1-stars, stories would have higher average ratings and that would bring in new readers. Would it mean the scores are inflated and not really that accurate? Absolutely, but it wouldn't decrease the amount of readers. Most readers don't think about things like the average scores of a website and whether or not they might be inflated. Most readers look at a high number and that's it. High numbers good. Anyways, I don't mean to encourage inflating the ratings or anything. I would prefer a way to get much more honest ratings without discouraging people. The vast majority of stories, my own included, should probably have significantly lower ratings than they do seeing as how a "3" is supposed to be the average, not a "4.3." I just wanted to point out that, technically, I believe it would probably boost the reader count since this only really affects people leaving negative ratings.


They can and they often won't. Hundreds of authors, every single day, get new, scathing reviews and ratings on their stories on RR and SH. Tens of thousands of authors if you want to bring Amazon into the equation. The people who actually go and cause witch hunts are not only in the extreme minority, but they tank their reputation over their inflated egos by doing so. It only does more harm to them to try and get revenge ratings. These people also tend to be the loudest, though. Vocal minority and all. The vast majority of authors realize that's simply how it is and don't really give enough of a shit to go and hunt people down and wage war over it. Though, even they would generally like to at least know why they got a rating, and this can help with that.


Again, let's let readers grow some thicker skins then if we're going to apply that same standard to authors. For example, somebody recently posted about how they felt attacked by an author. I saw somebody talking about it, so I was curious and went to look up what they might have been talking about. They made the author sound pretty bad, so I wanted to know if the author was as bad as they sounded. All I ended up seeing was a perfectly mature and sensible conversation between author and reader with the author being patient, respectful, and calm when explaining the purpose of their story to their reader. Yet, the reader made it sound like the author was attacking them and purposely trying to make them feel bad behind the author's back, when really the author didn't do anything wrong. The reader didn't do anything wrong, either. At least up until they went and made the situation sound far more dramatic than it actually was while implying that authors on the website have a consistent problem with replying to comments. All the author did was reply to a commenter with an honest, calm explanation. The author even apologized despite having no need to. Who was it that went all "woe is me?" Well, certainly not the author in this case.

Anyways, my point is that readers are every bit as guilty of this as authors are, yet we only apply the standard to authors rather than readers. The little story I just told above isn't anywhere near the worst that I've seen from authors. Heck, part of the reason why I stopped replying to critical comments on stories was because, the vast majority of the time that I tried to explain myself to somebody, all it did was start a giant pile of steaming shit with the commenters accusing me of being incapable of handling criticism. Even if you point out that they are just straight-up wrong about something, perhaps because they misread or skipped a chapter without realizing it, then they make it sound like they're being attacked and like the author is the one at fault. That's why I always let other readers call these sorts of people out on their shit instead of doing it myself, because doing it myself only gets me attacked with people flailing all over the place going "woe is me." Heck, one time I told a guy who left a homophobic comment on my story that it was okay to drop it, but that he should never tell any author (not just me) to not write what they want to write. That's pretty fair, right? "Hey, it's alright if you don't like my story, but I hope you don't seriously tell other authors to not create the stories that they want to create." That, at least as far as I'm concerned, is perfectly fair. How did they reply? By attacking my character, telling me I'm incapable of handling criticism, and that I'm not as good as I think I am. And that's not the first time it happened. It's happened a lot to me and other authors. That's why I'm against stuff like replying to reviews, even though in the above case, such a shit fest in the comments can lead to the person in question leaving a negative review with ill intent that could be called out in a comment to the review. It could help, but all it would do is continue the cycle of shit flinging. All it does is stir the pot of shit and make the place stink. Maybe if readers stopped throwing themselves all around the place like they're in some Shakespearean tragedy, though, then it would be better.

And just as a final note on the "upsetting readers does far more damage than upsetting authors" thing: I've seen dozens of readers over the last three years quit writing web novels completely because they didn't know why they were getting negative ratings or who was leaving them. I've seen 0 readers stop reading web novels because an author was mad at them. There are thousands of new, potential readers for every reader you might lose on a story. There aren't thousands of new, potential authors for every author you lose due to negativity. So, again. If we're going to hold authors to high standards and tell them to grow a thicker skin, then I damn well believe we should be applying the same to readers.

No need to be passive aggressive. I'm not fragile. And my understanding of that situation is far, far different from yours.

Edit: Also, I wasn't referring specifically to that event.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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It is true that every little bit of effort added will stop more people from leaving ratings and reviews. That's why I'm against forcing people to leave reviews or attaching reasons to their ratings. Do that and the "quality" of reviews might go up, but it's going to cause a significant decrease in overall reviews/ratings which is more harmful than having random people dropping 1-stars simply because they don't like a story. This is simply making it so that ratings would be public, though. It's just like if you add a story to your reading list (or your reviews/favorites on RR). They're all visible to anybody who looks. People still add books to their reading lists. People still review/favorite stories on RR. There's no extra effort involved. Is there a tiny bit of extra "risk" in the event of pissing off an author who doesn't know how to hold back their ego? There is, but there's always a risk of upsetting some random person on the internet. I don't see any reason for ratings to be anonymous when reviews, comments, reading lists, and so on aren't. You can even track who is reading your story and what chapter they're on which is, in my opinion, more invasive than being able to see who rated your story.

To be honest, the conditions her on scribblehub should be very favourable for reviews and comments as well. People say the system is good so far, and you may agree or disagree, but where are the reviews then? I see barely any of this site and comments are rare as well. :blob_evil_two:
 

Moonpearl

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To be honest, the conditions her on scribblehub should be very favourable for reviews and comments as well. People say the system is good so far, and you may agree or disagree, but where are the reviews then? I see barely any of this site and comments are rare as well. :blob_evil_two:

I think it's somehow more difficult to leave reviews here because you know the authors are watching intently. The option to leave a review is very out of the way, too.

I'm also pretty cautious about leaving comments, even though I really want to, because I somehow managed to make my favourite author stop writing altogether by... Praising her work??? (Definitely nothing but praise. I don't know what happened.)
It's hard to know how authors will respond, generally. Sometimes a light-hearted comment will get read as a criticism automatically and cause a misunderstanding. Sometimes a neutral comment will cause an author to fly into rage mode.

I don't really know what we, as authors, can do to show readers that we're safe to talk to, though. I still never entirely believe people who say they're going to be okay hearing the truth.
 
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Ace_Arriande

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To be honest, the conditions her on scribblehub should be very favourable for reviews and comments as well. People say the system is good so far, and you may agree or disagree, but where are the reviews then? I see barely any of this site and comments are rare as well. :blob_evil_two:

At least as far as reviews go, the number one complaint I see regarding why we don't have more is because it's out of the way. They're in a separate tab that you have to open up, whereas on pretty much every other web serial platform, all you have to do is scroll down and you'll see the reviews directly below the table of contents rather than hidden in a tab behind it. It's one of those things where you really have to kind of slap it in the face of people to get them to leave reviews. Reviews are the hardest thing to get from readers - far harder to get than comments, reading lists, favorites, and so on. All those things are just simple clicks. Reviews require them to not only go back to the series' main page, but they have to scroll down and go to the review tab which, let's be honest, a lot of people probably don't even know is there because it's not obvious enough. Reviews should be visible without having to go to their tab. Maybe leave something at the end of each chapter similar to the favorite icon that will take people to go to leave a review to make it even easier. I will 100% agree that Scribble Hub is severely lacking in reviews, and pretty much every other author and reader I know will also agree to that. The reviews, and an already-opened text editor to leave a new review, should be available by default on a fiction page.

I somehow managed to make my favourite author stop writing altogether by... Praising her work??? (Definitely nothing but praise. I don't know what happened.)

The only possible reason I can think of, that I've seen happen before, is sometimes giving somebody too much praise can apply more pressure to them. More pressure = more stress. I remember there was one clip of some popular streamer ranting about how he really wished people would stop thanking him for helping them through depression because all it did was add more constant stress onto him. But yeah, maybe it was something like that. The praise added too much pressure, in which case, there's not really anything you can do about that, unfortunately.

I don't really know what we, as authors, can do to show readers that we're safe to talk to, though.

Unironically, by shitposting. Posting stupid memes and making jokes about your own story usually helps readers know that you're chill to talk to, at least from my experiences and from what I've seen other authors do.
 

Moonpearl

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At least as far as reviews go, the number one complaint I see regarding why we don't have more is because it's out of the way. They're in a separate tab that you have to open up, whereas on pretty much every other web serial platform, all you have to do is scroll down and you'll see the reviews directly below the table of contents rather than hidden in a tab behind it. It's one of those things where you really have to kind of slap it in the face of people to get them to leave reviews. Reviews are the hardest thing to get from readers - far harder to get than comments, reading lists, favorites, and so on. All those things are just simple clicks. Reviews require them to not only go back to the series' main page, but they have to scroll down and go to the review tab which, let's be honest, a lot of people probably don't even know is there because it's not obvious enough. Reviews should be visible without having to go to their tab. Maybe leave something at the end of each chapter similar to the favorite icon that will take people to go to leave a review to make it even easier. I will 100% agree that Scribble Hub is severely lacking in reviews, and pretty much every other author and reader I know will also agree to that. The reviews, and an already-opened text editor to leave a new review, should be available by default on a fiction page.



The only possible reason I can think of, that I've seen happen before, is sometimes giving somebody too much praise can apply more pressure to them. More pressure = more stress. I remember there was one clip of some popular streamer ranting about how he really wished people would stop thanking him for helping them through depression because all it did was add more constant stress onto him. But yeah, maybe it was something like that. The praise added too much pressure, in which case, there's not really anything you can do about that, unfortunately.



Unironically, by shitposting. Posting stupid memes and making jokes about your own story usually helps readers know that you're chill to talk to, at least from my experiences and from what I've seen other authors do.

Honestly, I've been thinking about trying to fund a review-based reading race for this place for a while. I can only do GL, though, and I'll need both the money and the free time to get it together. (Overlapping Yuri Garden events kills me, it turns out.)
 

binarysoap

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It's just like if you add a story to your reading list (or your reviews/favorites on RR). They're all visible to anybody who looks. People still add books to their reading lists.
Would like to point out that at least on SH, you can hide your reading list, and based on looking how many readers actually are reading a novel instead of putting in on a dropped/to read later list, I can tell you a very significant number (like around a third), have a completely private reading list. And that doesn't include people who have a hidden section too.


The whole one star witch hunt thing is ridiculous. Here's why. if you implement: "In order to give one, or two stars, you must give a review, with a word count minimum (like crunchyroll does)." That right there stops any BS about witch hunts.

because if the reader feels so strongly about giving one star, and must provide a review behind it...that means that person must really want to let the author know what he/she feels. And if that is the case then they have no problem if an author replies.
How does your suggestion stop a witch hunt? I mean sure, that makes sure the one star reviewer is serious about calling out the lack of quality, but that still doesn't stop authors from going after the reviewer and asking readers to harass them, especially if the reviewer is also a writer. And that's a bit different than just an author reply.
 

JayDirex

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so let me get this straight. in order to protect reviewers or keep them anonymous the author has to accept being trolled by 1 stars on the whim of any reader who just feels like pissing on their story, because you guys are afraid that the guy who writes a one-star review will be trolled by the author?

What O_o? so people can only crap on people's stories anonymously because you want to mollycoddle readers?

you know what, I don't care. whatever.
 

Moonpearl

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so let me get this straight. in order to protect reviewers or keep them anonymous the author has to accept being trolled by 1 stars on the whim of any reader who just feels like pissing on their story, because you guys are afraid that the guy who writes a one-star review will be trolled by the author?

What O_o? so people can only crap on people's stories anonymously because you want to mollycoddle readers?

you know what, I don't care. whatever.

It's not trolls that's the problem, it's people genuinely not liking a story or not liking a story in the "right way" for the author that we'd have to worry about.

If it makes you feel any better, readers who are considering your story don't care about the ratings. At all.
 

GDLiZy

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This is true. It's even been proven in some studies before that something like the ability to reply to reviews, and seeing business owners do so, creates an implied threat of sorts that stops people from leaving negative reviews. People are naturally averse to conflict. Knowing that somebody's ratings can be seen would create a higher chance for conflict. However, this was portrayed as a positive thing that businesses should take advantage of.

And while I might disagree with exploiting that as an intimidation tactic, something I often see is telling authors to grow thick skins. Heck, even I'm guilty of telling people to grow thick skins if they want to post on platforms with rating systems where anybody can see their story. But maybe, in the same way that authors should grow thick skins, the reviewers/raters should as well (if we're going to be telling authors to get thicker skins). We're putting our stories on the internet. They're putting their opinions on the internet. I still disagree with replying to reviewers, messaging them to try and change their mind or to get their reasoning, so on and so on, and I think that 1-star ratings without reason will forever be a part of any rating system that there's really not anything we can do about other than removing the rating system completely, but we can at least apply the same standards that we apply to authors to raters.
Growing thick skin is definitely one of the quality an author must have, yet I can see that not even the authors, who spend hours into writing their books, can grow thick skin (some of them do). What can we expect from the readers, who just (for the most part) read for entertainment and unique experience?

My point is that, if you reveal the ratings, most readers who rate anything less than 5-star will have to take a risk that an author's ego might get hurt and come after him, even if he doesn't whine in the profile page. Too much work. So the would-be raters back down. Reading alone is enough, and there is more than one author anyway.

I'm on the side that the readers shouldn't be given any reason to not rate, other than their inherent laziness. They are akin to costumers, and we don't want customers to feel intimidated when they try to rate our service.

As for the point that it will stop 1-star rating, that is true, but for the wrong reason. Those that really hate the story might stop rating, but the troll will still rate it 1-star. If they get your wrath, then you're feeding the troll. They've already won.
 

Ace_Arriande

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I'm on the side that the readers shouldn't be given any reason to not rate, other than their inherent laziness. They are akin to costumers, and we don't want customers to feel intimidated when they try to rate our service.

Just as a disclaimer, I really don't think that this whole thing is as big of a deal as some might, but I do find it interesting to discuss and think about.

Anyways, I can understand this point of view. However, as authors are also users of the platform, that makes them customers as well. If this really poses such a risk to readers, does allowing anybody to anonymously rate any story they want without reason not pose risk to authors? This is giving authors a reason to not post their stories other than inherent laziness. And, let's be real here, fear of negative reception is a far, far, far more prevalent situation than fear of pissing off some random author. Readers already have more protection than authors do. Why should authors not be entitled to equal protection when they're the ones who are giving the readers something to read?

Now, if there is an author who is actively trying to make money off of their work and basically treating it as a career, then they should definitely strive to be more tolerant of negative ratings. However, only the minority of authors are trying to make any money out of their stories on SH. If they're not trying to make money, I don't see any reason for why they should have to develop thicker skins than the readers. It's purely a hobby to them - something they're doing for fun. It's not something that they're trying to sell to anybody. They just want to share their creations with people. It's like if you're trying to make a successful career out of selling burgers to people versus just making some free burgers for your friends.

On another note, this sort of thing just makes me think of the types of customers who will shout at people just doing their job, and generally the employee will get fired if they try to speak back in defense. "The customer is always right" results in the customer always being rewarded no matter how much of an asshole they are, though. ... Damn it. Now that I've made that comparison, I almost want to walk back on my position of not allowing authors to reply to reviews.

Was Assurb the good guy all along? Was I the one in the wrong? No... no. It can't be. I refuse.

but the troll will still rate it 1-star. If they get your wrath, then you're feeding the troll. They've already won.

This is true. If you give the troll a reaction, that means they "won." They accomplished their goal. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be attempted to prevent/deter trolls in the first place, though, and trolls tend to lose a lot of their courage once they're no longer anonymous.
 

Ral

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However, only the minority of authors are trying to make any money out of their stories on SH. If they're not trying to make money, I don't see any reason for why they should have to develop thicker skins than the readers. It's purely a hobby to them - something they're doing for fun. It's not something that they're trying to sell to anybody. They just want to share their creations with people. It's like if you're trying to make a successful career out of selling burgers to people versus just making some free burgers for your friends.
I wish we could just abolish ratings. I find it really pointless and unhelpful but causes so much strain to almost everyone.
This is true. If you give the troll a reaction, that means they "won." They accomplished their goal. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be attempted to prevent/deter trolls in the first place, though, and trolls tend to lose a lot of their courage once they're no longer anonymous.
This is the internet. There are other means.
 

Ace_Arriande

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I wish we could just abolish ratings. I find it really pointless and unhelpful but causes so much strain to almost everyone.

Unfortunately, they're helpful for businesses to have, and most people like the idea of trying to assign objective quality/value to subjective art. I'm all for burning the rating system down and making people write thorough, in-depth reviews reliant on critical thinking if they want to review something, but we're not exactly in a society that would be suitable for that right now. All we can do is try to move towards it. Heck, even when it comes to Steam's system which I love since it's just an "I recommend" vs "I don't recommend" system, you'll still get people leaving reviews where they use their own numbered values in them. Even when you remove numbers, people bring them back on their own. Damn numbers.

I'm not shit at math because I'm bad at it. I'm shit at math because I refuse to support the numbered machine oppressing all of us. :blob_paint:
 

Ral

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Unfortunately, they're helpful for businesses to have, and most people like the idea of trying to assign objective quality/value to subjective art.
But I don't think SH is a business? I don't think most authors are writing for business either.

And I think this is just your opinion. I mean, you can go to business oriented sites like Wacom, Apple or Disney and you will find that they provide no options there to rate their products. I don't see them suffering because of the lack.

And it is not exactly assigning value that people liked but talking about it. Ratings are kinda new and there is no such things as ratings back then. Still, people create great art and art thrived.
I'm all for burning the rating system down and making people write thorough, in-depth reviews reliant on critical thinking if they want to review something, but we're not exactly in a society that would be suitable for that right now. All we can do is try to move towards it. Heck, even when it comes to Steam's system which I love since it's just an "I recommend" vs "I don't recommend" system, you'll still get people leaving reviews where they use their own numbered values in them. Even when you remove numbers, people bring them back on their own. Damn numbers.

I'm not shit at math because I'm bad at it. I'm shit at math because I refuse to support the numbered machine oppressing all of us. :blob_paint:
I don't think that ability to rate = more reviews.

And if people want to rate these things then they could but I don't want SH to actually implement it themselves.
 
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Ace_Arriande

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But I don't think SH is a business? I don't think most authors are writing for business either.
Considering that SH is going to attempt ads later on, and look into other means of making profit if ads don't work out, yes. It is a business. Or rather, let's just change "business" to "a service/platform that has the intention of making profit from what it offers" for the sake of this.

And I think this is just your opinion. I mean, you can go to business oriented sites like Wacom, Apple or Disney and you will find that they provide no options there to rate their products. I don't see them suffering because of the lack.
It's really not my opinion. Feel free to skip to the bottom of my reply if you want actual studies and research that have been poured into this topic. If you want to read my own summary of it, though, which is definitely inferior to the good sources below, then feel free to open the first spoiler. I'm spoilering both of these because it's really not relevant to the topic and am done with the specific topic of "are ratings useful/helpful" after this post. It's not relevant to the original purpose of the thread, but I figured I'd put in an hour of research just so that I'm not talking out of my ass here. Plus now I can save the below research for future use whenever people try talking about rating systems being useless.

You listed examples that are essentially monopolies where the only products they push on their websites are their own. Why would they care about people rating their own products on their own website when there's no competition to be seen there? I suppose I could have been more specific earlier. Ratings are useful in that they allow customers/readers to sort by the highest-rated products/fictions among the competition. If you can find any sort of successful commercial platform that is an aggregate of different products by different companies, that doesn't use a rating system or allow potential customers to sort by it, I will be genuinely surprised. Things like Apple and Wacom don't need to have ratings on their own websites for the same reason that authors don't need to put ratings on their personal sites. What's the point if there is no competition to compare those ratings against? If anything, the most they do usually is brag about what they're rated somewhere else if they have a positive score.

1. Rating systems collect users into the same few products, boosting their numbers. The higher their numbers, the more people are going to buy/read these products/books. The more people that buy/read these products/books, the more money/pageviews you get. It is a safe, efficient, and lazy method of trying to hook customers/readers who care about "quality." Maybe you're not this shallow, but a lot of people will see something like, "Wow, this story has 700 ratings and 4.9 stars? It must be really good then!" Heck, I've seen numerous reviews on both Amazon and Royal Road where the reviewers are saying things like, "I tried this out because it had really good ratings, but now I want to know wtf is wrong with people and who thought it's worth that high of a score?" People are like sheep. They can be very easily herded. Give them a rating system and they're going to herd themselves for you. If anything, making use of rating systems for things like these two points are exploitative of customers/readers since it's essentially using them as free labor to consolidate other customers/readers into checking out the same few "proven" products/stories. So not only are such systems harmful when it comes to something as subjective as art, but they are exploitative of the people who don't even realize they're being herded like sheep and keeping the system going. But, my whole point is that no matter how shitty it is, it's useful. For greater profit/success/etc, that is.

2. Rating systems serve as a community-moderated "quality" filter to keep the "bad" stories that would push new users away from the site out of sight while pushing the "good" stories onto users to keep them on the site. Of course, this is part of the problem since it's trying to assign an objective good/bad onto subjective works in the case of fiction, but its benefit is far more obvious on things like Amazon. The higher-rated a product is, the better the chances are of it being a good, quality product that isn't going to break down on you. Things like build quality, reliability, customer service responses, shipping time, getting the right product - all of these things can be much more objectively evaluated. If you try pushing "bad" products onto customers, they're going to stop using your site pretty quickly since they're going to want to go to elsewhere where the quality is actually moderated somewhat.

Now, that's just looking at it from a purely business perspective. I don't agree with it on a personal level, but I think you would need to be pretty dang biased to refuse that it doesn't have any value from a greedy capitalist's perspective, and that perspective tends to be what matters when it comes to making profit. This isn't really relevant to the thread, though, and it's already been discussed in other and more relevant threads, so if you want to continue the topic about the worth of rating systems when it comes to aggregate platforms, feel free to message me about it instead. Because at this point, we're just getting back into the whole "are ratings actually useful" thing that has already been debated a dozen times here, and I'm interested more in whether we should be allowing authors to see who rates their stories (seeing as how that's one of the thread's actual topics).

More importantly, here's the good stuff to show that this is way more than just my "opinion." If these sources aren't good enough for you, please find your own research-backed studies if you're that intent on asserting that reviews/ratings are pointless. If anything is just an opinion, it's that reviews/ratings are pointless and unhelpful.

"Managed well, a review system creates value for buyers and sellers alike. Trustworthy systems can give consumers the confidence they need to buy a relatively unknown product, whether a new book or dinner at a local restaurant. For example, research by one of us (Mike) found that higher Yelp ratings lead to higher sales. This effect is greater for independent businesses, whose reputations are less well established. Reviews also create a feedback loop that provides suppliers with valuable information: For example, ratings allow Uber to remove poorly performing drivers from its service, and they can give producers of consumer goods guidance for improving their offerings."

"I find that a restaurant’s average rating has a large impact on revenue - a one-star increase leads to a 5-9 percent increase in revenue for independent restaurants, depending on the specification. The identification strategy used in this paper shows that Yelp affects demand, but is also informative about the way that consumers use information. If information is costless to use, then consumers should not respond to rounding, since they also see the underlying reviews. However, a growing literature has shown that consumers do not use all available information (Dellavigna and Pollet 2007; 2010). Further, responsiveness to information can depend not only on the informational content, but also on the simplicity of calculating the information of interest (Chetty et al. 2009, Finkelstein 2009). Moreover, many restaurants on Yelp receive upward of two hundred reviews, making it time-consuming to read them all. Hence, the average rating may serve as a simplifying heuristic to help consumers learn about restaurant quality in the face of complex information." (page 4)

I don't want to buy this one, but the abstract basically states that they've found small/local businesses that don't fake reviews end up suffering and are more likely to post fake reviews because of how beneficial they are, because... people care about reviews/ratings. This really isn't just my "opinion." https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/10.1287/mnsc.2015.2304

I especially like this one.
"PowerReviews surveyed 800 consumers in late 2014 and confirmed that reviews are growing in importance for online and in-store shoppers.95% of consumers use reviews and 86% say they are essential when making purchase decisions. And nearly one-third of consumers under the age of 45 consults reviews for every single purchase. Only price impacts purchase decisions more than ratings and reviews.56% percent of shoppers specifically seek out websites with reviews. Some retailers or brands may initially wonder why they would display negative reviews about their products on their website. In fact, negative reviews drive consumer trust. Posting negative reviews assures consumers that the site is not hiding anything and that they can trust the content on the site. 82% of consumers seek negative reviews. For consumers under 45, the number jumps to 86%. "

This one is an extremely well-researched and sourced article with the information-gathering and experiments explained in thorough detail, and it goes into information regarding how reviews benefit sales/views, how reviews can coerce customers into buying products that they don't need, and much, much more that there is no single quote good enough to take from it.

" It may seem intuitive that the availability of reviews will make a consumer more likely to purchase a product. But the magnitude of that impact may surprise many people. Based on data from the high-end gift retailer, we found that as products begin displaying reviews, conversion rates escalate rapidly. The purchase likelihood for a product with five reviews is 270% greater than the purchase likelihood of a product with no reviews. "

" The fact is, 90% of consumers read online reviews before visiting a business. And 88% of consumers trust online reviews as much as personal recommendations. "

"According to Fan & Fuel (2016), 94% of online customers read reviews before making any purchasing decisions. For product-specific information, Spiegel Research Centre (2017) shows that 95% of shoppers read reviews before making a purchase.BrightLocal (2017) studies indicate that 97% of consumers use reviews to search for local services. Specifically, 60% of consumers read reviews for restaurants and cafes, 40% for B&B’s, and 33% for medical services.Small Business Trends (2017) shows 83% of job seekers use reviews to support their decisions on which companies to apply to. And 84% of patients use online reviews to evaluate physicians before checking in."

TL;DR: Platforms and businesses don't include ratings just because they think it's funny. They do it because it's extremely beneficial to do so. If you disagree, you're disagreeing with two decades of research and successful practice that prove you wrong, so please have some really damn good sources to back your belief up.

Do I agree with having a rating system? No. Has it been proven by thorough, peer-reviewed research multiple times over the past 20 years, and by experimenting with it by businesses, to be extremely useful and anything but pointless? Absolutely yes. Of course, I'm sure that somebody would be happy to point out how none of those sources refer specifically to web serial platforms, but if anybody really doesn't think those studies can be applied to any competitive platform with ratings, then there's nothing that I can do about it. To me, it's just common sense that it would naturally be applied to other platforms with rating systems, and there are no studies either way regarding the specifics of rating systems on web serial platforms.

Now then, to get back on-topic: pls let us stalk our raters so that we can find their families and blackmail them into giving us positive ratings.
 
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Ral

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Considering that SH is going to attempt ads later on, and look into other means of making profit if ads don't work out, yes. It is a business. Or rather, let's just change "business" to "a service/platform that has the intention of making profit from what it offers" for the sake of this.
But you don't need a rating system for this though? Did Youtube for example need ratings (though they have like/dislike, which is different) to succeed? How about Facebook? News sites? Blogs? Thousands of other sites? You did said that they are helpful for businesses, then why would you ignore those that works very well without the ratings system in place?

And sure you say monopoly . . . but these ratings does negatively impact them. It is not as if Disney doesn't almost go bankrupt or lose money or anything.

Though, my original point was in the context of sites like SH. Are ratings really useful here?
It's really not my opinion. Feel free to skip to the bottom of my reply if you want actual studies and research that have been poured into this topic. If you want to read my own summary of it, though, which is definitely inferior to the good sources below, then feel free to open the first spoiler. I'm spoilering both of these because it's really not relevant to the topic and am done with the specific topic of "are ratings useful/helpful" after this post. It's not relevant to the original purpose of the thread, but I figured I'd put in an hour of research just so that I'm not talking out of my ass here. Plus now I can save the below research for future use whenever people try talking about rating systems being useless.
But the sources talks about reviews and not ratings. They are two completely different things . . . And I certainly didn't say reviews are not helpful.
More importantly, here's the good stuff to show that this is way more than just my "opinion." If these sources aren't good enough for you, please find your own research-backed studies if you're that intent on asserting that reviews/ratings are pointless. If anything is just an opinion, it's that reviews/ratings are pointless and unhelpful.
Okay. I talked about ratings not reviews.
TL;DR: Platforms and businesses don't include ratings just because they think it's funny. They do it because it's extremely beneficial to do so. If you disagree, you're disagreeing with two decades of research and successful practice that prove you wrong, so please have some really damn good sources to back your belief up.
See this? You switch to talking about ratings only when you previously talked in ratings/review context.
Do I agree with having a rating system? No. Has it been proven by thorough, peer-reviewed research multiple times over the past 20 years, and by experimenting with it by businesses, to be extremely useful and anything but pointless? Absolutely yes. Of course, I'm sure that somebody would be happy to point out how none of those sources refer specifically to web serial platforms, but if anybody really doesn't think those studies can be applied to any competitive platform with ratings, then there's nothing that I can do about it. To me, it's just common sense that it would naturally be applied to other platforms with rating systems, and there are no studies either way regarding the specifics of rating systems on web serial platforms.
Okay. Again. Those studies you pointed to? They talk about reviews.
Now then, to get back on-topic: pls let us stalk our raters so that we can find their families and blackmail them into giving us positive ratings.
:blobrofl:Now this I agree with.
 
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Discount_Blade

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The whole one star witch hunt thing is ridiculous. Here's why. if you implement: "In order to give one, or two stars, you must give a review, with a word count minimum (like crunchyroll does)." That right there stops any BS about witch hunts.

because if the reader feels so strongly about giving one star, and must provide a review behind it...that means that person must really want to let the author know what he/she feels. And if that is the case then they have no problem if an author replies.

Here's the bottom line: Stop making it easy to give one star. Because the problem of ease is why trolls are allowed to act with abandon. If you place a fence at that one-three star spot, then it will hinder the impulse hater who gives a one star because his life sucks! He won't be interested in writing a review, and if he writes nonsense he can be flagged.

This is an Eco system of AUTHORS and READERS: Authors are being hurt by trolls abusing the one star. if you fence it you can better protect the authors, and you will NOT BE HURTING any reader. Readers can still read the story, they can still rate it too. but if they want to PISS ON THE STORY, (which is a one star) then have them justify it. You're not asking for their passport, just a reason why they're pissing on this author's hard work.

See this is a pretty good idea. I'm not sure how plausible it would be to enact and I'm unsure if it would really solve anything. I'm 50/50 on it since there are some fairly dedicated trolls who aren't intimidated by limitations. They embrace them as a challenge. I mean I write lengthy reviews if I dislike something anyway. I honestly don't remember writing a review where I praised something. I just gave it a 4 or 5 rating if I thought it was good. Needless to say, reviews from me are not typically welcome affairs. My silence is usually a telltale sign I liked it. And a high rating as well of course. Which likely makes me part of them problem eh? That's probably a bad thing on my part so I apologize.

I wrote four paragraphs explaining why I hated someone's story, and also disliked them as a person (it was more me saying I would dislike them as person if they resembled and believed in the content they were writing about, so its debatable whether it mattered or not), but I only rated that 2 stars. Or 3. i can't remember now. 2 or 3. To me, a 1 is when it's awful. Awful as in I'm shocked you are even here....and posting. A 2 is when the only positive thing about it i is that it passes for being readable English. 3 is where it's not bad, but I would use it for toilet paper if I didn't have any. 4 is good, but nothing special. 5 is awesome to me. Thats my personal way of doing things, as flawed as it now seems to me.
 

Ace_Arriande

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Okay. Again. Those studies you pointed to? They talk about reviews.
"For example, research by one of us (Mike) found that higher Yelp ratings lead to higher sales"
"I find that a restaurant’s average rating has a large impact on revenue - a one-star increase leads to a 5-9 percent increase in revenue for independent restaurants, depending on the specification."
A good few of those studies essentially equated looking at the average rating score with looking at reviews, and a couple mention specifically looking at ratings. I did spend a decent amount of time actually reading them and that was the impression I got. The only one I didn't actually read was the paywalled one. That's why I included them. Also, because I can't find any studies that are specifically making a difference between a review and an anonymous rating. These are usually combined when talking about them because, to most customers and platforms, they're essentially the same thing except for when talking about their specifics in situations like this. But I won't be able to find any peer-reviewed sources confirming that they're usually counted as the same thing, and I've already spent about 3 hours on this specific mini-discussion in the thread, so that's just my assumption and I'm just going to go back to focusing on my writing now = P.

:blobrofl:Now this I agree with.

At least we can agree on this and leave it at that because I really need to go back to my writing. :blob_nom:

I just gave it a 4 or 5 rating if I thought it was good. Needless to say, reviews from me are not typically welcome affairs. My silence is usually a telltale sign I liked it. And a high rating as well of course. Which likely makes me part of them problem eh? That's probably a bad thing on my part so I apologize.
Yes, please do review the stuff you actually like, too. I and so many other authors I know will 100% discredit your opinion as worthless and assume that you're just never happy with anything at all if we see is that you only leave negative reviews. That's just assuming you actually care about the author's opinion, though. If you're only targeting readers with your reviews, which reviews are meant to be for, then it doesn't really matter since most readers won't go to look at your history of reviews. Of course... if authors could also see non-review ratings, and see that you leave positive ratings on some stories which would be possible with the original suggestion, that would help!

Also, another reason to leave positive reviews: because it makes us feel good and the world always needs more positivity in it.
 

Ral

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A good few of those studies essentially equated looking at the average rating score with looking at reviews, and a couple mention specifically looking at ratings. I did spend a decent amount of time actually reading them and that was the impression I got. The only one I didn't actually read was the paywalled one. That's why I included them. Also, because I can't find any studies that are specifically making a difference between a review and an anonymous rating. These are usually combined when talking about them because, to most customers and platforms, they're essentially the same thing except for when talking about their specifics in situations like this. But I won't be able to find any peer-reviewed sources confirming that they're usually counted as the same thing, and I've already spent about 3 hours on this specific mini-discussion in the thread, so that's just my assumption and I'm just going to go back to focusing on my writing now = P.
Rating and reviews aren't separated here, you can't really use them as sources. I mean, is it really because of the higher average rating or the many positive reviews? In fact, a lot of those sources attribute the effect to reviews rather than the ratings. I mean the article you pointed me to is titled: Designing Better Online Review Systems; and the paper is called: Reviews, Reputation, and Revenue: The Case of Yelp.com. There is no mention of ratings.

And reading the paper, they attribute the effect more to reviews and other information than ratings themselves with things like:
consumers respond more strongly when a rating contains more information
an example given is
Gin and Leslie (2003) show that when restaurants are forced to post hygiene report cards, a grade of A leads to a 5% increase in revenue relative to other grades.
There is strong suggestion that ratings itself is not what is useful but the information behind them (and the fact that the rating comes from reputable sources). Considering that SH ratings have no information behind them (nor are they reputable), I can only make the logical conclusion. (On that note: RR does allow you to rate on different criteria like Story and Character.)

Also:
Consumer response to a restaurant’s average rating is affected by the number of reviews and whether the reviewers are certified as “elite” by Yelp
Again, they strongly pointed out the importance of reviews (and even the people who writes the reviews) instead of the ratings themselves.

The common theme with these sources is that it is reputation that drives revenue and the reviews seem to become replacement of traditional means. Rating seems to be incidental. It just so happens that lots of positive reviews means higher average rating.
At least we can agree on this and leave it at that because I really need to go back to my writing. :blob_nom:
Happy writing! 頑張って!
 
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Ace_Arriande

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Yeah, you make some great points. I think maybe we just have different expectations for people. When I read stuff like this, what I gather from it is that people are easily manipulated and only care about seeing positive numbers and the presence of reviews rather than actually reading the reviews in-depth. I don't know if they went into detail regarding that since I only read a few of them completely and skimmed the rest. I'll probably give this one a complete read later since it seems to go the most in-depth with all of them, though it also looks like the one that will hurt my head the most trying to understand it. Anyways, I think you're much more optimistic than me = P. Though, I think what I will do is run a poll on my chapters next week asking if people care more about the average rating that a story has or the reviews on it since I'm curious now.
 
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Ral

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When I read stuff like this, what I gather from it is that people are easily manipulated and only care about seeing positive numbers and the presence of reviews rather than actually reading the reviews in-depth. I don't know if they went into detail regarding that since I only read a few of them completely and skimmed the rest.
I think there are also people like that.

I'll probably give this one a complete read later since it seems to go the most in-depth with all of them, though it also looks like the one that will hurt my head the most trying to understand it.
Design of review systems – A strategic instrument to shape online reviewing behavior and economic outcomes

Sounds like the typical papers I read from time to time. This seems to be an interesting read.
Though, I think what I will do is run a poll on my chapters next week asking if people care more about the average rating that a story has or the reviews on it since I'm curious now.
Let me know what the result is! I'm curious too.
 
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