Alternative AG testing thread - A troubleshooting discussion and experiment

[Devils.Advocate]

I do not think you are crazy at all!

ERm... Thanks?
...
.
but why did you have to add that line in the end
No one said anything about being crazy tho...

 

[Omnifarious]

*shake my head*
@Generic.Archdemon & @Cascadian

Don't try and justify your craziness! Talking to your self is most certainly a sign of madness!!!

I think you are both absolutely bat shit crazy!

 

[AliceShiki]

It's not weird to watch it, it's funny~

 

[Omnifarious]

Looking around GM-less builds I discovered Universalis
very reminiscent of the AG and write to grow systems

Universalis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Alternatively, Fiasco is a mechanic that centres on defining relationships. relationship between character leads to events, and improvisation to explain the events is part of the game.

I am still interested in limiting the control of players or at least have "events" happen in "adventures" that is unexpected that players HAVE to deal with...

Perhaps some kind of incident pairing system. E.g a randomized "encounter" that has to happen on top of the "quest"

 

[Omnifarious]

One way of playing the GM-less system that caught my eye is something called a Ritual system. In that players are largely free to tell stories however they like but some sort of "ritual" must be followed. And this does not mean anything magical. Onley that during tuns, a key phrase MUST be used.

Example. If the "quest" or the mission is indicated as the first turn. in the player's turn i.e the report. a Conflict phrase must be used and also resolved.
a conflict phrase could be "And sudden;y he appeared out of the shadows" " but the box it was empty" or "That was when he stabbed me in the heart"

In the game Polaris there are a few key phrases and 8 conflict phrase are used

General Phrases:

• LONG AGO, THE PEOPLE WERE DYING AT THE END OF THE WORLD.
• BUT HOPE WAS NOT YET LOST, FOR [NAME] STILL HEARD THE SONG OF THE STARS.
• AND SO IT WAS …
• BUT THAT ALL HAPPENED LONG AGO, AND NOW THERE ARE NONE WHO REMEMBER IT.

Conflict phrases

• BUT ONLY IF …
• AND FURTHERMORE …
• IT SHALL NOT COME TO PASS.
• YOU ASK FAR TOO MUCH.
• IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE.
• THAT WAS HOW IT HAPPENED.
• IT WAS NO MATTER.
• WE SHALL SEE WHAT COMES OF IT.

If we think of AG as a story, We can section the beats as beginning middle and end, if we like we can structure the story as such:

• beginning - Quest
• middle - Report
• end - End

In this, all parts are part of the story, one thing I question is the inherent passiveness of evaluation of quest. Is there a way to make the process of evaluating or assessment more significant to the world?

 

[AliceShiki]

One way of playing the GM-less system that caught my eye is something called a Ritual system. In that players are largely free to tell stories however they like but some sort of "ritual" must be followed. And this does not mean anything magical. Onley that during tuns, a key phrase MUST be used.

Example. If the "quest" or the mission is indicated as the first turn. in the player's turn i.e the report. a Conflict phrase must be used and also resolved.
a conflict phrase could be "And sudden;y he appeared out of the shadows" " but the box it was empty" or "That was when he stabbed me in the heart"

In the game Polaris there are a few key phrases and 8 conflict phrase are used

General Phrases:

• LONG AGO, THE PEOPLE WERE DYING AT THE END OF THE WORLD.
• BUT HOPE WAS NOT YET LOST, FOR [NAME] STILL HEARD THE SONG OF THE STARS.
• AND SO IT WAS …
• BUT THAT ALL HAPPENED LONG AGO, AND NOW THERE ARE NONE WHO REMEMBER IT.

Conflict phrases

• BUT ONLY IF …
• AND FURTHERMORE …
• IT SHALL NOT COME TO PASS.
• YOU ASK FAR TOO MUCH.
• IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE.
• THAT WAS HOW IT HAPPENED.
• IT WAS NO MATTER.
• WE SHALL SEE WHAT COMES OF IT.

If we think of AG as a story, We can section the beats as beginning middle and end, if we like we can structure the story as such:

• beginning - Quest
• middle - Report
• end - End

In this, all parts are part of the story, one thing I question is the inherent passiveness of evaluation of quest. Is there a way to make the process of evaluating or assessment more significant to the world?

I honestly got totally lost there...

 

[Omnifarious]

So to revise the design Parameters

• Players are "Blank slate" characters. They are deprived of pre-game powers and history,
• Players have a career. It's a major goal. there will be a variety of goals, and lost enough that can have multiple endings, but it will be an ending none the less. Once the player ends the "game". they can epilogue the character, it would be nice to make this complete character an NPC, and since its a complete story, other players that read the character history would find it easy to use the NPC
• Alternatively, instead of careers, I would like players to build a noble house or a clan as a driving purpose that runs in parallel to the core game. The purpose is for the player to invest more heavily in the structure and the workings of the world.
• Personal preference: I am an advocate of creative limitations, it is not that I like restricting creativity. but I am, at this moment, a believer that knowing that there is an impossibility in a situation, a more creative or imaginative solution can be created. In short limitations fosters thinking outside of the box. But in the case of a community game, the idea of common rationality might more fully synchronised, for that reason a small set of commonly understandable limitation should be applied.
• While actions and their outcome may have a limitation. what possibility may be or should be wide-ranging. At least the illusion of such. The sandbox is at its core a "world builder" rather than an adventure game
• For that reason of limitation. one vein of development, is to have present types of resolution. so problems/ conflicts MUST be resolved in certain ways, instead of having attribute points, one way is to have attribute's meaning determine how a conflict is resolved. attribute being:
  • Physical
    • Strength / Power
    • Endurance / Vigour
    • Dexterity
    • Agility
  • Mental
    • Guile / Cunning
    • Perception / Observation
    • Knowledge / Intellect
    • Social / Charisma
• To resolve "quests" that uses attribute, might mean players can resolve conflict without adhering to the attribute limits but would mean they don't get rewarded. For example, Hunting a deer is a mixed bag of attributes but if the designation is to mainly use "Social / Charisma" Player might have to befriend, a hunter? or seduced ar bait an animal, but if falls mainly under cunning and guile. Attributes themselves is a heavily flawed system, but simply using it as a vague need to resolve a situation is perhaps an interesting way of play.
• ...

To be cont'd

 

[Omnifarious]

I honestly got totally lost there...

Hmm.. I suppose the way is...
Quest is "gather wooded logs" and conflict key phrase is "threat in the darkness"
one possible report could be " Character lose track of time collecting wood, and was lost in the woods after dark
another could be Character finds a cave and was attacked by a beast in the dark.
or a more borderline but still creative is, to accidentally consume a wild mushroom and was temp./perm. blinded.

a key phrase narrows the narrative but does not fully restrict it.

 

[AliceShiki]

Hmm.. I suppose the way is...
Quest is "gather wooded logs" and conflict key phrase is "threat in the darkness"
one possible report could be " Character lose track of time collecting wood, and was lost in the woods after dark
another could be Character finds a cave and was attacked by a beast in the dark.
or a more borderline but still creative is, to accidentally consume a wild mushroom and was temp./perm. blinded.

a key phrase narrows the narrative but does not fully restrict it.

That could be interesting, it's basically a small phrase that functions as a guideline to the player's method of completing the quest I guess?

 

[Generic.Archdemon]

Players have a career. It's a major goal. there will be a variety of goals, and lost enough that can have multiple endings, but it will be an ending none the less. Once the player ends the "game". they can epilogue the character, it would be nice to make this complete character an NPC, and since its a complete story, other players that read the character history would find it easy to use the NPC

Can you elaborate on this? the idea of career, adventurers IS a career, albeit a lose jack of al trade, do whatever type existence, but how would having careers give people direction? Would it not simply fall in the same loop "making own path" and for the less goal orientated players to lose direction?