Do you like critique that hasn't been asked for?

[Nyan_sempai]

One side says the intention of the person who is critiquing is always to help find the flaws despite their own skills, doesn't matter if it was asked for, or if it helps or not, the intention to help itself matters. And of someone cannot handle critique, it's their fault, and they shouldn't show their art to others.

Another sides gives an importance to the state of the one getting critiqued. It is important to consider their mood and personality and whether it's helpful or has been asked for.

What do you feel about it?

Personally, I believe, it's easier to not critique and ignore the art you dislike. Because while the art isn't meant for me, the critique is directed to me.

Secondly if it's something trivial and exclusive to that painting itself instead of a repeated pattern of mistake, I believe it's not worth critiquing. The critique should be such that it helps in the long run.

But I know there are many people out there who actually seek SOME comment rather than none on their art, they are very accepting to others opinions because they are happy that someone cares about their art than no one.

My degree of tolerance to "polite" unsolicited critique varies depending on my mood, though maybe lately I perhaps learnt to ignore and laugh it off a bit? But if it's a roasting then nyan starts becoming like this

As for the decorations? I dunno... I just wanted to... Hehe

 

[SailusGebel]

I've got two words for you: "Git gud."

But if you want a serious opinion, there are no 'patterns' in human interactions. Every person is unique, that's why every interaction will be unique as well. I'm not an artist as I don't draw, but I still may leave a helpful critique for the artist. It's not about 'disliking' art. It's about liking it so much that you think you can help the artist out with advice.

But due to my personality being different, I may not sugarcoat my words. Yeah, there are 'different' types of critiques. Usually, it's one being polite the other one being 'roast'. And the thing is, it's more than usual devolves into haters\fans. And you enter a certain 'info' bubble, where you stop developing. You start repeating yourself, you grow stale, and so on.

Trying to not be mean when critiquing is okay. You shouldn't sound like an asshole(probably). However, when you are trying not to 'hurt' the 'feelings' you might go overboard with this. And instead of an actual critique, you end up patting the one you are supposed to 'criticize' on the back. Is it good? No, it makes those who actually not sugarcoating their words sound like bullies\trolls. I believe it works akin to an Overton window.

Words have a lot of meanings, everyone has a different grammar level. People might be from different countries, and because of that, the way they think is different. What I'm trying to say is that you should look into every case of critique individually. Internet is a public space where people tend to be more open, and not everything is filled with trolls\assholes who are trying to roast you.

 

[AliceShiki]

Mmmmmmmmm... I don't draw myself, so I guess I'll use the other creative works I make as an example.


When translating:

I honestly can't say I care much about feedback when translating. I am not the creator of that work, it is not mine. It's just someone else's work that I'm bringing to the general public.

Feedback can still be helpful for the sake of telling me that I could try rephrasing some things I guess, or maybe if I repeatedly make some typos as I translate (I often use beam instead of bean, for example), so uhn... That can help a bit, I guess.

But for the most part, I just don't have much attachment to my translation, so any feedback on it feels mostly pointless to me.

Maybe this might change if I stop translating for a job and go back to doing it as a hobby, but I honestly doubt it.


When Writing:

I actually like almost any kind of feedback I get when writing. I remember I got some rude (but truthful) feedback when I started writing, and I actually tried to counter the arguments I received, and uhn... I basically lost sources of feedback that day. It kinda taught me that I shouldn't do that if I want to receive feedback.

And well, I do want to. I do know of some flaws of my writing, like how I use lots of elipseses. I need to make a conscious effort to avoid them too much, because there will be multiple elipses per paragraph otherwise.

But there might be other flaws I might not notice that easily. About how some of my characters may not seem very believable, about how I failed to deliver an impactful scene in a moment that really should be impactful, when some scenes felt too plot-driven and how the characters felt like they had no personality of their own and were just moving the plot forward... I worry about those things, and I like getting feedback on them.

To me feedback feels like a pointer that says: "This part wasn't done well, learn from it and avoid doing something similar in the future." And I like trying to learn from it and trying to get better from it.

How does that apply to art? I honestly don't know. I am not an artist myself, I dunno if saying "hey, this character's eyes look kinda strange" would help the artist in figuring out what makes the eyes strange and what they could do to avoid this kind of thing in the future.

I usually give my own vague feedback if the artist is open to it because I like trying to be a bit helpful, but I honestly have no idea if I have ever been helpful by giving my two cents on things~

 

[LinXueLian]

What do you feel about it?

Hmmm. I'm neutral about them. I don't mind them, although I do tend to take critique I ask for more seriously. It's mainly because when I do ask for critique, it's usually from someone from the industry, has had a stipulated amount of success or has a wealth of experience - not from some random person unless it's a targeted consumer. I mean, laymen or hobbyists aren't terrible, but they can really, really send you the wrong way with advice that's well-meaning but very, very erroneous. Professional experience in something weeds out a lot of these errors, especially technical ones, even if not all.

I get a heap of harsh criticism almost daily for my work irl, so I can attest to it that receiving them from people in the industry is really, really something else. But most people who are very good at what they do rarely ever give critiques, even when they're asked for it. Rather, they set up workshops to teach or give advice, or make instructional videos. To get a 1-1 with them is pretty rare, so I treasure these a lot more.

When it comes to unsolicited criticism [from laymen], there's also something called the loud empty tin syndrome that's being bandied around in articles/segments etc. I can't remember which talk show I saw this on, but I remember the doctors mentioning that folk who go around criticizing others nilly-willy are often regarded as less talented or they possess less abilities because their arrogance makes it hard for them to actually learn things outside of their own perspectives or beliefs. And it shows - they just don't know it, and it's pretty embarrassing since people do laugh at them behind their backs.

Edit: Added the related articles I read that woke me up about it:

Why People Give Unsolicited Advice (Though No One Listens)

How many people really take unsolicited advice?

www.psychologytoday.com

What You Should Know About Advice-Givers

Don’t assume that someone offering you advice is doing so just for your sake.

www.psychologytoday.com

Now, I've lurked in a number of writing/drawing communities and it seems from what I've seen that unsolicited critique is nowadays regarded as cringy or lame. Y'know the smarty-pants kid in class with zero sense of self-awareness trying to correct everyone without reading the room whom everyone hates but who thinks everyone loves them for being knowledgeable? Yup, that one. At the end of the day, there's also EQ involved since most platforms are community-driven.

So yeah. I don't mind unsolicited critiques. But I don't want to be that person giving them either, dammit. It's embarrassing af to act like I'm better than others when I'm making 100000 mistakes of my own in terms of presentation, knowledge or vocabulary. Unless I'm an actual trained expert or a consumer asked for an opinion on a product/piece of art/translation/writing, I'd rather keep it in my pants than act like a know-it-all asshole everyone's secretly rolling their eyes at

 

[AliceShiki]

Hmmm. I'm neutral about them. I don't mind them, although I do tend to take critique I ask for more seriously. It's mainly because when I do ask for critique, it's usually from someone from the industry, has had a stipulated amount of success or has a wealth of experience - not from some random person unless it's a targeted consumer. I mean, laymen or hobbyists aren't terrible, but they can really, really send you the wrong way with advice that's well-meaning but very, very erroneous. Professional experience in something weeds out a lot of these errors, especially technical ones, even if not all.

I get a heap of harsh criticism almost daily for my work irl, so I can attest to it that receiving them from people in the industry is really, really something else. But most people who are very good at what they do rarely ever give critiques, even when they're asked for it. Rather, they set up workshops to teach or give advice, or make instructional videos. To get a 1-1 with them is pretty rare, so I treasure these a lot more.

When it comes to unsolicited criticism [from laymen], there's also something called the loud empty tin syndrome. I can't remember which talk show I saw this on, but I remember the doctors mentioning that folk who go around criticizing others nilly-willy are often regarded as less talented or they possess less abilities because their arrogance makes it hard for them to actually learn things outside of their own perspectives or beliefs. And it shows - they just don't know it, and it's pretty embarrassing since people do laugh at them behind their backs.

Now, I've lurked in a number of writing/drawing communities and it seems from what I've seen that unsolicited critique is nowadays regarded as cringy or lame. Y'know the smarty-pants kid in class with zero sense of self-awareness trying to correct everyone without reading the room whom everyone hates but who thinks everyone loves them for being knowledgeable? Yup, that one. At the end of the day, there's also EQ involved since most platforms are community-driven.

So yeah. I don't mind unsolicited critiques. But I don't want to be that person giving them either, dammit. It's embarrassing af to act like I'm better than others when I'm making 100000 mistakes of my own in terms of presentation, knowledge or vocabulary. Unless I'm an actual trained expert or a consumer asked for an opinion on a product/piece of art/translation/writing, I'd rather keep it in my pants than act like a know-it-all asshole everyone's secretly rolling their eyes at

Mmmmmmm, that's a curious perspective to me.

Feels like you're looking at unsolicited criticism as a way of someone trying to show off as them being better than the artist?

I dunno, I feel like most people are too lazy to do this kind of thing. The people that bother with commenting are few, and the ones that do usually like the work and want the artist to get even better... Or at least that's the little that I saw. I can't say I have been around artist communities much.

I feel like your points make ton of sense and I basically agree with almost everything, just uhn... I dunno, I don't feel it makes sense to look at the layman's words as the act of an entitled asshole... I just feel that most people act on good intentions and are just like... "Hey, I don't know a thing about art, but this part feels strange to me as an uneducated viewer."

As in, I don't think I need to pretend that I make no mistakes in order to point out other people's mistakes? I can make a ton of wrong things and still feel like I am able to point out something unusual or strange in someone else's work.

... That said, there is a very good point at the start that you said about how well-meaning criticism can still take the creator to a totally wrong path due to the person giving it being uneducated on what they're talking about. This really does make a lot of sense.

So uhn... Well, just wanted to say that I felt like your argument made sense, but the way you portrayed the people giving criticism looked really weird to me~

... I ended up writing way too much to make this one point... >.>

 

[LinXueLian]

Feels like you're looking at unsolicited criticism as a way of someone trying to show off as them being better than the artist?

No. I'm not sure how you're getting that that's how I'm looking at things - I'm pointing out that most (if not many) people correlate it to low EQ nowadays, at least from what I've seen watching psych segments and lurking in writing/drawing communities in spaces like Reddit. I pretty sure I've mentioned that myself am neutral about unsolicited criticism. I just don't want to be seen giving it.

EDIT: I'll try to look for that segment/article about it. I know I read it somewhere, probably on psych daily
EDIT 2: or was it on youtube??? wtf my memory

EDIT: I HAVE FOUND IT (the article version)

Why People Give Unsolicited Advice (Though No One Listens)

How many people really take unsolicited advice?

www.psychologytoday.com

I KNEW it was a while ago! Some time back when I read this!

Edit: the other one

What You Should Know About Advice-Givers

Don’t assume that someone offering you advice is doing so just for your sake.

www.psychologytoday.com

I can't find the video link, sorry.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Well, there's this side that says "I just wanted to share", and doesn't bother with criticism.

And also, this side that wants to "Get some little encouragement for something that they do". And gets hurt with unsolicited criticism even if it's well-intentioned.

My point? To be on the safe side, I'd rather keep quiet unless I was asked for my opinion. Artists and writers (actually, a lot of creators) are fiercely proud of their work, and as someone who comes from both backgrounds, I understand that the 'errors' that I see might not actually a mistake on the side of its creator.

I believe art and other creative pursuits are highly 'flexible', and even the technical aspects of it could be deliberate.

Well, that's what I believe. Like what @LinXueLian said, it's not only about the IQ, there's also the thing about EQ.

Success in life is connected with how well you handle those two.

 

[Nyan_sempai]

I've got two words for you: "Git gud."

But if you want a serious opinion, there are no 'patterns' in human interactions. Every person is unique, that's why every interaction will be unique as well. I'm not an artist as I don't draw, but I still may leave a helpful critique for the artist. It's not about 'disliking' art. It's about liking it so much that you think you can help the artist out with advice.

But due to my personality being different, I may not sugarcoat my words. Yeah, there are 'different' types of critiques. Usually, it's one being polite the other one being 'roast'. And the thing is, it's more than usual devolves into haters\fans. And you enter a certain 'info' bubble, where you stop developing. You start repeating yourself, you grow stale, and so on.

Trying to not be mean when critiquing is okay. You shouldn't sound like an asshole(probably). However, when you are trying not to 'hurt' the 'feelings' you might go overboard with this. And instead of an actual critique, you end up patting the one you are supposed to 'criticize' on the back. Is it good? No, it makes those who actually not sugarcoating their words sound like bullies\trolls. I believe it works akin to an Overton window.

Words have a lot of meanings, everyone has a different grammar level. People might be from different countries, and because of that, the way they think is different. What I'm trying to say is that you should look into every case of critique individually. Internet is a public space where people tend to be more open, and not everything is filled with trolls\assholes who are trying to roast you.

I am good enough I think, at the end what matters the most is self satisfaction, there is never "getting good" in art because your standards keep getting higher I have accepted that but ofc I will want to meet my own standards one day.

I mean, laymen or hobbyists aren't terrible, but they can really, really send you the wrong way with advice that's well-meaning but very, very erroneous.

Exactly my point. It could do more harm than help. But then if those people are my close friends I can just laugh it off and perhaps keep in mind too.

And also, this side that wants to "Get some little encouragement for something that they do".

Personally I feel that kind of praise is much more helpful to a person than a critique that's not professional.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Personally I feel that kind of praise is much more helpful to a person than a critique that's not professional.

Well, people have different ways to get their daily encouragements. Some attain it through accomplishing something. I've seen others perform well when you praise them. And there are people who get their sense of appreciation when they are corrected for their mistake. So on...

It's really diverse. Interacting with my students and with people in Discord and other online and real life communities made me realize that if one aims to help and encourage, they should try every approach.

 

[LinXueLian]

Exactly my point. It could do more harm than help. But then if those people are my close friends I can just laugh it off and perhaps keep in mind too.

D'aww. If it helps, you can try sieving the advice you get if you don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm neutral about unsolicited advice because some advice can be pretty good or profound, even if it's rare. It's not a bad idea to determine for ourselves whether if it's good or not.

For record, I don't make it a point to pander or blindly praise others either. If I don't like something, I don't really say anything unless I'm asked directly. If someone posts in my thread asking for an opinion, for example, I'll be giving it - but that's solicited advice, very different from me just randomly going around and correcting someone else out of the blue.

I'm 100% sure most people are fine with getting advice or critiques. They likely just don't like some rando popping up and going, "AY YOU DID WRONG HERE" because as some people have already mentioned, it makes them look self-important. That's a no-no in 2021, since a lot of people are getting educated and aware about EQ enough to point it out.

 

[BenJepheneT]

look man, if you're getting next to no views for your works, ANY form of feedback is appreciated.

fuck, I'd even take a heart (or Favourite) at this point.

 

[SailusGebel]

I am good enough I think, at the end what matters the most is self satisfaction, there is never "getting good" in art because your standards keep getting higher I have accepted that but ofc I will want to meet my own standards one day.

Exactly my point. It could do more harm than help. But then if those people are my close friends I can just laugh it off and perhaps keep in mind too.

Personally I feel that kind of praise is much more helpful to a person than a critique that's not professional.

That wasn't the main point of what I said. The main thought is the paragraph I've written in the end. The Internet makes people more talkative there is a lot of reasons behind this, but we aren't talking about this.

Since this is a public space, you can post almost whatever you want here. In our case, it's art. Other people can do the same, yet some choose to comment on the art of others. Why? I don't know myself, I never understood this, nor will I ever understand. Perhaps to cheer the artist up? To show their admiration and so on. The reason doesn't matter. What matters though, is the fact that people won't have the same reaction.
Somehow, encouraging words, praises, and admiration are welcomed, and everyone shrugs their shoulders off when they talk about this. They take it for granted. Because when people use the Internet, they will say that there is a lot of shit and stress in 'real life' they surf the net to 'chill' and relax. So anything 'positive' is seen 'as things should be'.

Due to these facts, everything 'negative' is ostracised. It is seen as an intrude on their personal space, on their resting ground. Why the criticism, albeit unsolicited, is seen as 'negative' I don't know. But it is seen like that by the many, by you, for example. If you do something in a public place, you should always keep in mind that you can't always filter\control the response.

Graffiti is a good example, I think? It's street art and art that is done in a public place. So, some will admire good graffiti, some will ruin it, and a few might even tweak it and bring it to another level. And when you are uploading art on the Internet, onto the sites where the comments are available, you are basically showing graffiti to others.

Another good question is, why do you even want to share the art? People ask a question, why do others give unsolicited criticism? But somehow, people don't ask the question, why even bother uploading your art? Especially if we are talking about sites with comments. To share your art and to get the said criticism? Or to get a pat on the shoulder and indulge your ego?

Lastly, I will add that you can't see the insides of other people's minds. They criticize because they see potential, or because they liked the art even more so than you, and many other reasons. Yeah, we all know that: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." So what? We should be more kind to others and either say praises or remain silent? In the end, we should make the Internet a more 'kind' accepting place? A place where people will rest and relax? In my opinion, that way, it will be another manifestation of the saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

[Mephi]

I never like critiques, in that knowing I suck just hurts.

I am thankful for thought out and actionable critiques that can make me improve.

"Critiques" that are just yelling and not actually actionable, just saying "this idea is bad!!" Is not a good critique. Happens far too often though

 

[Khiricastares]

To me this all depends on the type of critique. There are two categories here - appeal to emotion and opinionated logic.
The logical approach is helpful, usually (depends on the mental state of the person receiving it, and how opinionated). Even if you don't agree with someone's own personal logic, the arguments and comments will usually be well structured and able to be followed, or at least enough to understand their opinion and where it comes from.
Appeal to emotion is where things get messy. This is where someone has an opinion but simply spews it out in a messy train of thought fashion. It makes perfect sense to them, so it must make perfect sense to everyone else too and if it doesn't then obviously they did something wrong. These tend to be more negative in nature, complaining about something in the story or the characters that doesn't make sense to them, or they feel is "wrong". Although I hesitate to even call it critique, I've seen enough internet to know how often it shows up with that intention. Just leave it for comments if you can't manage basic logic or supporting evidence/examples.

 

[Nyan_sempai]

Another good question is, why do you even want to share the art?

To get commissions X"D

I don't see critique as a threat or something negative in general, but whether I take it well or not is other thing. Personally I think amateurs whine over small details because they are jealous or don't like the subject of the art rather than the technical aspects of it.

Like someone saying the boobs are too large in a anime drawing. Is it necessary to point that out? It's probably intentional. In that case they aren't critiquing the art, they are talking about something they simply dislike and something the artist is well aware of.

I never like critiques, in that knowing I suck just hurts.

I am thankful for thought out and actionable critiques that can make me improve.

"Critiques" that are just yelling and not actually actionable, just saying "this idea is bad!!" Is not a good critique. Happens far too often though

I think that's because rather than them knowing what's good, it's because they dislike what you have.

 

[SailusGebel]

To get commissions X"D

I don't see critique as a threat or something negative in general, but whether I take it well or not is other thing. Personally I think amateurs whine over small details because they are jealous or don't like the subject of the art rather than the technical aspects of it.

Like someone saying the boobs are too large in a anime drawing. Is it necessary to point that out? It's probably intentional. In that case they aren't critiquing the art, they are talking about something they simply dislike and something the artist is well aware of.

I think that's because rather than them knowing what's good, it's because they dislike what you have.

I mean, other people don't know if their critique would be seen as a great one. They are, by default, think that they are helping you. Except for trolls, of course. If a person says that the boobs are too large, he simply thinks that the art will be better with smaller boobs. It's his opinion, it's not whining or an attack. In the end, the only person who decides if the critique is useful is you and no other than you. You are filtering it. There is no way for those who want to help you, to get inside of your head and take a look at your thought process.

Also, there is no need to only point at technical aspects. You aren't drawing for other artists to appraise your art, right? You are drawing for simple folk, who more times than others is 'feeling', rather than 'know'. There is such a thing as well as a different perspective. From your point, you think of technical aspects, how to improve this or that. All while your art can be already seen as a great one. And the moment you change it, people will say change it back. From your perspective, in the heat of the moment, you may forget lots of things. This can happen, and there will be people who will think of this, and they will try to remind you or give advice.

Try not to brush off\ignore everyone from the get-go. Look at those advisers more positively, even when their advice isn't helpful. After all, if they bothered to write it, it means they care for your art.

 

[K5Rakitan]

If I'm paying for something, I'm going to critique it to get it fixed to my liking. I have a small budget for art, so I work with developing artists. I figure that working for me will help prepare them for more lucrative contracts, so I might as well let them know if there are any issues that need fixing. My husband helps, too! I tend to be a bit too happy with the results to notice certain flaws.

I once made the mistake of critiquing something someone did for free, just for fun, and her friend jumped to her defense. I was just pointing out that my OC's jaw turned out narrower than I liked to envision her. The rest of the art was lovely, and I said so. I'm not sure if the artist herself was upset by the criticism, or if her friend just assumed that she would be upset, but either way, it seemed too sensitive to me.

 

[Jemini]

Actual critique comes about so rarely (especially on this site) that I appreciate any and all critique I get. Now, mind you, that's ACTUAL CRITIQUE. Just someone saying they hated the story and ragging on it is not critique. It has to come from the approach of the person giving the critique honestly wanting the writer and the story to improve.

 

[EternalSunset0]

I think that it has to come with context. Critique of all forms is good, but if anything, I feel that where I draw the line is if whether or not the person making the critique actually knows what I am trying to do. I really don't mind unsolicited advice, especially those that help me in the long run. I feel that all that subjectivity is not as relevant in the realm of art since there are some "harder" rules depending on the context (the proportions for a non-chibi drawing, for one, clothing physics, posing) but more flexible in terms of something like writing. Those rules, like those on punctuation, grammar, and mechanics, still exist, but when it comes to the actual content, it's more flexible.

I see that so much in the anime community, where X show gets criticized for not doing so and so, not having so and so, or having fanservice here fanservice there, but don't you think that that's the point of the creator in those works? I mean, if I'm writing a popcorn power fantasy Isekai on a site like this with the intention of just showing off my fetishes, I don't think a complaint about having too much fanservice is helpful or even relevant to me. If I just want to be so edgy and put all those dark, gory stuff on paper, I don't think a critique asking me to tone down on the gore and violence will be relevant. I just won't care because doing those defeats my purpose.

On actually giving critique though, I think everyone deserves a balance. Criticizing and not being an asshole are not mutually exclusive.

I guess attitude-wise, I'm just the type of person who prefers harmony and seeing people get along. I feel a bit sad about the attitude of wanting the Internet to be some big, bad survival-of-the-toughest place when we can help each other develop in more peaceful and non-confrontational ways. It's a pretty common attitude on the Internet to want the others to just "suck it up," and I see the point, but a lot of people on these forums have been going through a lot of crap irl already, so what would you lose by giving them a pat on the back and cheering them up a bit amidst critiques about their art/writing, etc?

On another note, I do find the last paragraph ironic considering I'm absolutely terrible at reading the mood or being sensitive to people. Like I'm the kind of person who wouldn't know that I offended someone unless the person specifically tells me.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

Let's consider cambridge dictionary's definition of 'critique'

'a report of something such as a political situation or system, or a person's work or ideas, that examines it and provides a judgment, especially a negative one'

Who asks this? How can a critique be anything other than 'unsolicited'?
I believe it is naive to be offended by it. I write for people to enjoy my ideas, to share a journey. Me being an adult, and understanding the public nature of the internet, I know and expect people to share their opinions, whether I like them or not.
I cannot, for whatever is sacred on earth, expect everybody to find my fiction appealing, and understand that freedom of speech is the most important aspect of today's society. I choose what offends me or not. I control my emotions, not others... so why would I, or any well-developed adult at that, think too much into a critique to the point of being offended?
If what others say is true about 'only those experienced in the field can critique'... Who would critique three michelin star chefs? Sportsmen? Politicians? The Church? Only themselves? Could only Tolkien critique my work if he was alive? No. Critics exist because they are not from your field. Otherwise it's called advice, guidance, mentorship. The same could be bounced back to you, if someone started a thread that read "What do you think about unsolicited art?" Because until you are asked, whatever you do is, by definition, unsolicited.

And yes, I've received critiques, and I appreciate them. Because it means that whoever gives it to me has joined me in the journey of my fiction, has sat down and looked at my art. Has taken time off their life to consume what I produce. How can that not be welcomed?