Fiction doesn't affect reality. Fiction enhances reality.[Warning: Long Post]

Cipiteca396

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It's a hard topic. There's nobody who'll be a hundred percent right if they give an answer.

Personally, I've seen a lot of cases where people (on this site even) made a statement or claim that was based purely on tropes or clichés. Things that were wrong, but made sense because they'd seen it happen a hundred times in fiction. Not the obvious things, like harem, or violence, or fairness. But little details. Things that you don't notice until they're pointed out.

So I'll say that even adults can have their thoughts altered by fiction. As much as people may have tempered their opinions on some subjects, other things aren't important enough to an individual to get that treatment.

THAT is the intention of 'propoganda' or the little morals and aesops contained in stories. It's to get people who don't have a strong opinion to side with you. And it works, obviously, or it wouldn't be done so much.


All of that aside, I'd like to believe that both 'nature' and 'nurture' are not the end of things. I believe that everyone has a choice, and if they don't have a choice, then that's just the worst kind of tragedy. Nobody should be forced to do something they don't like by their genes or some old book.
 

DiscoDream

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I think the problem with the "Violent video game murderers" scandals, is more of people wanting to divert the blame for why these events happen. A running theme in mass killings is that the perpetrator came from a broken home. Thugs from the slums don't commit mass killings, they're more directed in their anger. It's always some bastard with no social life and a chip on their shoulder. Someone who was clearly fucked in the head and noone did anything about. Instead of admitting that society failed these people at every point in their life, it's easier to say "videogames did it", or "Movies and the news". A lifetime of repeated neglect and isolation makes these statistics, as it's not something their born with. People with ASPD and Psychopathy both fall into the "Choose their victims category". Selectiving targeting their victims to derive the most pleasure from. Neither of these are descriptive of mass shooters, as they are just normal people who went too deep into the gutter.
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I feel like I'm getting off topic, so a tldr. Videogames don't cause violence, isolating someone does. Next time you see a lonely weird fucker, give them a bit of your time. It might be the only thing to keep them from spiraling. They're still human.
 
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All of that aside, I'd like to believe that both 'nature' and 'nurture' are not the end of things. I believe that everyone has a choice, and if they don't have a choice, then that's just the worst kind of tragedy. Nobody should be forced to do something they don't like by their genes or some old book.
Well, it certainly isn't the end. An individual can still change him/herself, though it is up to them, because going against yourself is the hardest thing one can do.

I've seen some of my students go against what they were expected to become (nature), because they are determined to do it. I myself went against my bullied past (nurture) and mental issues (bipolar, nature) to become the person (teacher, lawyer, animator, baker) I am today.

Nature and nurture are there to give reasons as to why a person became like he/she is in the present, not to give him/her future.
 
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Chaos_Sinner777

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Reality is the waste that demands utterly unreasonable portions of my time between when I can consume some awesome fiction.
 
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KiraMinoru

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All the weebs in the world who have tried to go Super Saiyan by screaming their lungs out looking like they’re trying to squeeze out the most massive shit of their life would like to have a word with you about whether fiction affects reality. Same with every man or woman who has ever Naruto run thinking they look bad ass. Also every individual who’s secretly wildly swung a samurai sword or light saber around like a clown. Same with anyone who cosplays.

If you wish to argue that fiction does not affect reality, you must deny the existence of every weeb influenced into doing stupid shit they saw in an anime.

Humans are simple creatures. Monkey see monkey do.
 

Daitengu

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Maybe for stable minded people, but there are cases of fiction affecting reality for some.

The time the US Marines got a lot of recruits from people seeing Full Metal Jacket for one.

Another is people taking Apocalypse Now wrong and becoming neonazis.

I'm of the mind that reality is only ever what you think it is. As such, fiction can affect what one perceives as reality.

There's a reason propaganda and media spin can influence people strongly enough to support people and/or ideologies that actively harm them.
 

Prince_Azmiran_Myrian

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Those American's were most likely raised to believe that stuff from the beginning with propaganda fed to them from their parents. If you show a grown adult communist propaganda, and they weren't raised to approve of communistic ideals, but they still fed into it, then that means that they either shared those views to begin with, even by a little, or they have low common sense.
Except all the ones that become socialist in college. Education system fails again.
You know, a lot of people will say that they will question the scientific credibility of things, but they can never really bring up any credible scientific evidence of their point. So, I pose a challenge to you. Try to find any sort of peer reviewed scientific article that backs up your point. Only then can you say that you can question the studies I can bring up, because otherwise you're just speaking through emotion cause science doesn't back your inherent belief. Just saying I'mma look through it and do research on the authors of said article to see if they have a certain bias or not.

I'm very thorough when it comes to evidence, so if you want to try to discuss with me on a scientific bases, you have to back it up.

That is kind of my issue with your reply in general. You speak on these issues as if you do know, but provide no evidence to back it up.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/is-homosexuality-a-choice/

Meanwhile I can back up my evidence with stuff like this. Give it a read. It highlights a number of differences between straight and gay men from a genetic component and brain activity. The whole reason I brought it up was because you said it in a way as if you were stating fact, which I can bring in scientific facts to prove my claim.
I was right to be skeptical. Not only was your article written by a political scientist, but it is outdated.

These three articles all talk about the same large scale study from harvard: i didn't care to research the authors, i just google searched.

From what I can tell, there is still a lot unknown about how genetics affects sexual orientation, as the study could only explain, at max, 25% of sexual variance. Not a very confident correlation if you ask me. Previous studies, like thise mentioned in your article, were conducted with small sample groups apparently, so this study seemed to have been really important or something. One of the articles talks about how most behavior is learned and environmental. Kind of like what I was saying...

A word about relying on surveys. The scientific community is filled with conflicting evidence and biased studies. Scientists are funded to find things, and it has been shown that peer reviewed articles can be complete junk. What I'm saying is the trustworthiness of scientific studies is in question. They aren't reliable.
(Like, the CDC is finally looking into correlations of covid vax and strokes. Oh, i thought that was a conspiracy theory?)

This is what I mean by the truth being hard to discern.
And right now I am going recognize that you and I have completely different worldviews. I predict that no evidence either of us will bring up will change the others mind. I say this because it is a spiritual conflict, not an intellectual one.
 
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Anon2024

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This is what I mean by the truth being hard to discern.
And right now I am going recognize that you and I have completely different worldviews. I predict that no evidence either of us will bring up will change the others mind. I say this because it is a spiritual conflict, not an intellectual one.
it’s funny honestly. Anyway, all things being fair I would say we don’t know but… at the same time I don’t believe it’s something in-born.

An alcoholic who never drinks alcohol will not be an alcoholic.
An Asian who grew up never seeing a white person wouldn‘t have a preference for them.

Why do some love cars while others see it as simply point A to point B?

Sexuality I believe falls under there somewhere. Whether or not genetics make triggers that one can have a preference or not is never going to be known unless we can explain why some white girls only date/mate with black guys, or some Asian girls only date white.

Attraction is learned, or perhaps ‘triggered’ or something else. Nothing is conclusive.

overall it shouldn’t matter.
‘Keep it out of schools.
Parents should have a choice what fiction their kids see, but teachers shouldn’t be teaching it.
 

georgelee5786

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Fiction of all kinds can influence people, and by extension affect reality, to varying extent. That's all I've got to say.
 

Daitengu

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overall it shouldn’t matter.
‘Keep it out of schools.
Parents should have a choice what fiction their kids see, but teachers shouldn’t be teaching it.

Did you forget the part of English class where fiction is used to teach the language and how to understand the meaning behind the words and stories? You aren't gonna get that with rote memorization of words.

Also, I think some works like Orwell's Animal Farm should be required reading. It's such a solid work that lessons from it can be applied generally to many things. From political campaigns to "news" and even cults, and social movements.

Gotta be able to dissect a story to be able to tell if you're being lied to irl. Otherwise you'll be like those folks who bought and drank bleach as a covid cure. Gullible.
 

CupcakeNinja

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Well, all I can say is, I am a teacher. A teacher of language and literature. I can separate fiction from reality, and I try to teach my students the same.

Violent video games? In the first place, it is like the violence we see on TV; someone older (and who understands the situation) should be guiding us instead of us discovering reality for ourselves (and ending up with our own interpretation of it). I mean, the heck? Where do those game creators get those 'violent' scenes anyway? From the dust in the air? No! It's on what happens everyday and in every corner of the world.

Point short: Learn to separate reality from fiction.
yeah but humans are very much programmable, lets not pretend things like propaganda and other forms of subtle manipulations that affect our thoughts and minds dont exist. To not be effected, you have to be well rounded already to the point you dont just fly off the handle at things like video games and try to emulate the behaviors seen in them. And even then, i've known people who are affected by them in other ways than violence. Red Dead Redemption, for example. I've seen people who play that game long enough that they start picking up that rough, tobacco-chewing drawl of the main character.

Video games in particular are addicting. Kids growing up playing Fortnite can turn quite manic if you take the game away from them. Now, is that a rule for all of them? No. Is their own predisposition towards such behavior a factor? Perhaps. But i wouldn't say ONLY those type of people would be shown to be affected

Being able to distinguish fiction from reality isnt enough anymore. If even little things like that can bleed into a person's own speech pattern, what else could?
 
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yeah but humans are very much programmable, lets not pretend things like propaganda and other forms of subtle manipulations that affect our thoughts and minds dont exist. To not be effected, you have to be well rounded already to the point you dont just fly off the handle at things like video games and try to emulate the behaviors seen in them. And even then, i've known people who are affected by them in other ways than violence. Red Dead Redemption, for example. I've seen people who play that game long enough that they start picking up that rough, tobacco-chewing drawl of the main character.

Video games in particular are addicting. Kids growing up playing Fortnite can turn quite manic if you take the game away from them. Now, is that a rule for all of them? No. Is their own predisposition towards such behavior a factor? Perhaps. But i wouldn't say ONLY those type of people would be shown to be affected

Being able to distinguish fiction from reality isnt enough anymore. If even little things like that can bleed into a person's own speech pattern, what else could?
The players you're talking about picked up those mannerisms because they know enough that those are relatively harmless, as opposed to shooting and killing people, which makes my point of distinguishing fiction from reality valid.

True, video games are addicting. And even I can get addicted (especially if it's real-time strategy games). I don't pick myself, grab someone, and embark on a quest for world domination starting on a beer hall.

Yet in the end, I still know I have to live a life out of my room and computer desktop, so I stop to work.

My students can get addicted as well, but here, parents push their kids to go to school--even sometimes beating them to it (I know it's foul on Western people, but it's the system here), so it's also a way of making them distinguish fiction from reality.

Oh yeah, we play Left 4 Dead like it was a ritual (every weekend). And we know how graphic that game can be. Yet, my online friends don't go picking up a chainsaw and slashing anyone they meet. They know fiction, they know reality.

Addendum: I'm fully aware of how fiction affects reality. Just look at my country's May 2022 election. The candidates who deserve the positions ended up losing because 31 Million Filipinos thought that the Marcos Family owned gold hidden in Fort Knox (stolen by the CIA during the EDSA Revolution of 1986, they believe). And that gold would be given away to them for free.

Now everyone else suffers for their ignorance.

What I'm advocating for, is that, we should teach people how to distinguish fiction from reality.
 
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K5Rakitan

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If someone finds out they're gay because they saw Leonardo DiCaprio shirtless in one of the movies, they were already gay and seeing that only made them realize that fact. As in it enhanced they're gayness, and as funny as that sounds, I mean it.
That's how I feel about being polyamorous. I think the sooner people accept these things about themselves, the less pain they will cause the world. I don't want to date monogamous people because I'm not happy in that dynamic, and monogamous people should be dating each other, not me.
 

KiraMinoru

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If you continually tell children over and over again from a young age that they’re the root of all evil, they’re oppressing others by merely existing, you portray them as being school shooters, that they need to continually apologize for things other people in the past did to people they had nothing to do with, I wonder what will happen to them?

Do you think there will be those who become exactly what you’ve told them they are from a very young age? Or maybe there will even be those who end up just sinking into a pit of depression and killing themselves. Perhaps there will be those who just outright disconnect themselves from society altogether.

What happens when you have negative behaviours continually reinforced online through the notion that they will rise to fame? When the negative behaviours are initially faked or staged, fictional in nature, only for copy cats to arise who reenact those negative behaviours for real. You see this happening all the time on a daily basis with online trends and challenges. Where fiction has turned into reality.

Fictional stories are influencing every single aspect of the world around you. Fictional made up stories to garner public outrage. Fictional stories to cancel people, companies, and brands. Fictional stories to scam people out of money. Fictional stories to create cults and gain followings. Fictional stories to get rich quick. Fictional stories come in all sorts of conspiracy theories, some turning out to be true, others being completely false like flat earth, many of which have far reaching real world implications.

You’d have to be utterly delusional or blind, living in a basement all day never going out to see the light of day to genuinely believe fictional stories aren’t affecting every aspect of reality around you. The vast majority of ads shoved down your throats are works of fiction. They feed you some sort of story to manipulate you into buying their product.

As for the whole argument about video games, if you took a child from birth and locked them in a room with only video games to learn from about the world outside their closed off little box, how do you think they would turn out? They’d blindly believe everything they saw in that video game was the reality of the outside world. It’d be the same as brainwashing.

But that’s exactly what’s done to all of us anyway from a young age. The morals we’re fed are just the other end of the spectrum of brainwashing. In reality, in nature, killing is actually the natural way of the world. It’s a cruel dog eat dog world, survival of the fittest out in nature. Thinking of it that way, is it not actually humans who are trying to live in a fictional world where we all hold hands and not kill each other?

But anyway, the point here being, if there is no one to properly educate a child and instill morals within them, they will turn into exactly what they were taught was normal. Not because they had some sort of predisposition toward being a murderer, but because that’s what they learned was normal. That become their reality.

So it really comes down to just bad parenting. Parents should be limiting what their kids are seeing if they want them to fit into society. Not handing them an iPad or computer and letting the internet raise them. When you let the internet raise your kid from birth without properly disciplining them, they turn into the growing number of spoiled screaming ungrateful disrespectful little shits you see clout chasing today.

At the end of the day, what we perceive to be reality may very well be built on a hill of countless lies, fiction. Convenient lies we’ve been fed since young so people can use us all as ignorant slaves. This way they don’t need to worry about being killed as they’ve domesticated all the convenient peasants and removed their fangs and claws.
 

Scaver

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I want people's opinions on this because I'm genuinely curious about this concept. I'm under the idea that fiction doesn't affect reality. As in I don't believe shit like playing violent video games somehow makes people more likely to go out and cause mass murders. Seeing movies that glorify violence or sex won't inherently change a person's mindset to be more likely to ignore or parade such concepts as something to be actively celebrated. If a person celebrates real life violence, they already had the predetermined mindset to do that, with or without fiction's hand in the matter
While 'most' wont go out and commit mass murder after playing video games, you cannot disregard possibility. If you give a 10 year a video games adn he doesn't much human interaction, then he might as well. Although adults won't do it because , society has implanted laws and customs. Again, human are born with feelings. For example, even if you were to live your entire life without seeing your parents, undoubtedly there will be some connection.

Sex is different. It's a need. More powerful than anything, violence is nothing compared to that. Watching porn will and abosulate will, change your brain mechanics. You will and you do, sexualise your opposite sex(there is no third gender bitch! lol). But that said, does it increase the amount of rape cases? I don't think so. Because to facilate this sexualising tendency, society change and allows vulgar behaivoir. Gives rise to, cheating and illicit sex. See this, okay. You live with your girlfriend but you don't marry her. I mean why not. Your logic, because 'im so young', 'marriage is a life long game', 'we will breakup anyways,' , then why don't you divorse if thats the case. If you were to marry, you wouldn't divorse so easily, simply because well you are married, and you would be more understanding and patient.

I went out of topic hahaha.
However, I do understand, and I believe the idea that fiction enhances reality. As in if someone where to commit murder, and they played violent games or watched violent movies, they would do it with or without the fiction's hand in the matter. If a murderer watched a violent movie, it was because they were already attracted to violence to begin with, and seeing the violent movie would only enhance that understanding of themselves. Same thing with sexual themes. If someone finds out they're gay because they saw Leonardo DiCaprio shirtless in one of the movies, they were already gay and seeing that only made them realize that fact. As in it enhanced they're gayness, and as funny as that sounds, I mean it.
Bro, everything you see and read, you will be influenced. For example, you have once said something to your friends, 'I think its better to die than humiliate your family' and then few years later you friend kiled himself. Now he might even not remembered your words, but it did remain in his unconcious brain and it did push him. But that said, it would not be fault nonetheless, you should give proper attention to your words, always.

Gay...No comment, i wont be able to convince you anyways, untill i come and give you some beatings that it. Just kidding.
I remember Noralities when she was talking about how fiction affects reality and in her talk about cancel culture, she brought up the movie "The Birth of a Nation" and how it basically put the triple K back into some sort of power after years of basically being dead. However, she failed to mention that it was 1915 and even with the triple K being basically dead, people were still very racist and the movie just took those people's personalities and enhanced them until they blew. Honestly, that video of hers is pretty garbage and she got into some massive controversy after that video and her trash isekai video, but that statement she made stuck in my mind.
I am not sure what you are talking about since, i don't waste time on news.
There's also this very specific points that I hear pop up time and time again, though thankfully this point seems to be dying as of late cause it was very dumb to begin with. We all should know the point that news broadcasters in the early 2000s constantly brought up. X murderer or criminal was a fan of Y violent movie/game. However, they fail to bring up the fact that X murderer had very obvious mental defects. The amount of times GTA was brought up in the news after a mass shooting still rings in my head cause it was pretty common to hear about in the early 2000s and even in the early 2010s.
Now, that's not right i guess. But why are you seem to defend video games. THey are absolute trash anyways. Its ruining a fuck ton of young men ,(not much women). It gives birth to , icels!

Although, some gamers will come and say that, playing moderately is fine, i disagree. Life is short, why destroy your focus on some bullshit like that, anyways. You learn nothing out of it, absolutely nothing.
 

Anon2024

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Did you forget the part of English class where fiction is used to teach the language and how to understand the meaning behind the words and stories? You aren't gonna get that with rote memorization of words.

Also, I think some works like Orwell's Animal Farm should be required reading. It's such a solid work that lessons from it can be applied generally to many things. From political campaigns to "news" and even cults, and social movements.

Gotta be able to dissect a story to be able to tell if you're being lied to irl. Otherwise you'll be like those folks who bought and drank bleach as a covid cure. Gullible.
Half of the OP post was about sex.
I’m pointing out sexuality should be kept out of schools, but I guess you weren’t following the conversation.
 

ZukoMee

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Reality is the waste that demands utterly unreasonable portions of my time between when I can consume some awesome fiction.
I wish there was an "I won the Internet for the day" award because this post sure as hell deserves it!!
That's how I feel about being polyamorous. I think the sooner people accept these things about themselves, the less pain they will cause the world. I don't want to date monogamous people because I'm not happy in that dynamic, and monogamous people should be dating each other, not me.
All of you polyamorous types simply make up excuses for why you lack the ability to commit to anyone. You claim you "commit" to multiple partners, but that's nonsense. That isn't commitment. That's just some child making sure they get to "taste all of the colors of the rainbow" with no restrictions. I'd dare say its fairly close to being some form of entitlement though admittedly, I'm not versed enough/or care enough, to make the argument of such. You have the right to live as you please and be tolerated, but thankfully, tolerance and acceptance aren't the same things, which is something many people fail to notice.

Anyway, I'm just glad the majority of you polyweirdos in the U.S. tend to originate as a West Coast problem like most of the ongoing social degeneracy in the States.
 
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Cipiteca396

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I'm not versed enough/or care enough,
You probably shouldn't comment at all then. If you had even a tiny bit of context, you might understand why your post is such a joke.

That said, this thread is about how fiction affects reality and such, not about venting your personal issues. Try to at least mention the topic if you're going to post...

And don't bother arguing... I'm just gonna Ignore you preemptively, so you'll be wasting your time.
 
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