First Chapter Analysis

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I'll add in more later, but it helps to use an AI that's designed for fiction writers. I recommend Autocrit. There's a lot I can say on how to use it, plus responses I can give to build on all said, I'm just tired. Long day at work.

Oh yeah, to note, I have much more I'm going to add to follow up. Stuff I just think is good to hear. Again, I'm just tired at the second.
Oh, don’t worry. I finally decided to delete my whole novel and start over, lol. It’s for the best, for real.
 

Story_Marc

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Oh, don’t worry. I finally decided to delete my whole novel and start over, lol. It’s for the best, for real.
I'm aware. What I'm going to say will build on that. Such as the idea of 3 drafts: 1 self-indulgent draft, then 1 where you focus on craft, and one more after which focuses on the audience. Plus some other things.

But just message me on Discord if you want a faster response. I'll send it via PM.
 

Story_Marc

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Finally freed up! On vacation now after an exhausting week of work and I’ve been able to sit down and think. So, let’s speed run this.



@Edd99 Assassin’s Apocalypse

You’ve gotten better at this compared to the previous draft. I think you’d benefit from using more verbose verbs though when it comes to describing. I still hate the LitRPG stuff, but that’s more a me issue than anything else. I took the time to research and understand the genre more in depth. I’d say it’s good that you introduce it all here at the beginning as you do, instead of dragging it out. Also, I love how this was the assassin’s last job before getting forced into this and his reaction. If I was into LitRPG, I’d be invested to see how he gets out of things.

Here’s a specific lesson for you on verbs:

More than any other part of speech, it is the verb that determines whether a writer is a wimp or a wizard. Novices tend to rely on is and other static verbs and lose momentum by stumbling into the passive voice (more on that in a moment). The pros make strong nouns and dynamic verbs the heart of their style; verbs make their prose quiver.


The first key to exploiting dynamic verbs is simply to use them. For some reason, even experienced writers pepper first drafts with forms of be. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the writers indulge in many more drafts to go back and season the prose with dynamic verbs. Some writers devote one entire rewrite to verbs, circling every is and are and trying to replace as many as possible. Eventually, dynamic verbs will start flowing from the get-go.

I didn’t really feel suspense in things when sneaking in, though it seemed like an afterthought, even with taking people down. Like, good example…

------
I raised my suppressed pistol. Although a suppressed pistol is not exactly quiet, it does not register with bystanders as a gunshot, due to the difference in sound between an unsuppressed and suppressed pistol. So although the noise made is by no means silent, other security guards would by no means come and investigate. I then raised my pistol, and fired twice. Two bangs, two corpses. With that, the path was clear, and I stalked onwards, as if I was the reaper himself.



After going down the stairwell and dispatching two more guards, I reloaded my pistol and debated what to do next. I could take out my customized FN Scar H with a double-sized mag, courtesy of a now deceased Filipino security contractor and risk a more immediately risky gunfight, or I could use my gas grenades, which were hard to detect. Problem was, that if one of the guards even got a whiff of the gas, he would radio in and the rest would be swarming all over me in seconds.
-----

Otherwise, I liked it up until the LitRPG and that’s just because I’m not the fondest of LitRPG. If you can keep up the assassin stuff and maybe add a little bit more flair to the actual action, I think you’ll be fine. If you’d like my brainstorming on stuff for the action stuff, feel free to ask. This is where I’m not 100% confident with what you want, since if you wanted it to just be an afterthought, then fair enough. If you wanted to add a little more flair, I can suggest something.

@Sahrynar

The Book of Sevorech, Book One of the Guardians of Lajen Saga


Excellent work! I honestly can’t think of anything to improve with this. You start at a great point with the protagonist, your grammar is readable, you… hmm… trying to think of the best way to put this… This just feels like a polished work that could pass as the start of traditionally published literature and it helps me trust you. I can’t tear this apart at all or anything because I believe you’ve an excellent starting point. Even gave you a heart since I liked it so much. You should proceed with absolute confidence in your work!


@RepresentingEnvy My Sister, My Savior

Oh no… Present tense… My mortal enemy… I hate present tense so much, especially in first-person due to an existential issue it gives me. Okay, so, I’m just going to give you the reason I’d pass on this, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re doing anything wrong. I hate first person present tense because it feels weird and unnatural to me. Especially since 1st person by itself involves the protagonist as narrator, but I wonder why the hell are they actively narrating this. It doesn’t immerse me.

Now, having said that, here you go for something which can help.

Of course, you may not WANT to do this, which I noticed with the fact you shift to past tense midway through the chapter. You should stay overall consistent on if the story is being told through 1st person past tense or 1st person present. I’ve acknowledged my bias towards the former, but it depends on what you want to do.

Now, that aside, focusing on the content of this chapter, the sentence it starts on feels like a great opening line. There are some things which shouldn’t be used in present tense, like “I realize” (that’s more of a past tense thing and it defeats the immediacy vibe) or “I immediately” stuff.

The actual end point of the chapter is a good one too.

Anyway, I really like the premise of this one, I just wouldn’t be confident in your abilities as a writer yet to continue on because of the prose issues. Given how haphazardly you handle a bit of it, I’d be worried that you’d be as haphazardly with the actual plotline, which a mystery of all things shouldn’t have if it’s handled properly. If those are cleaned up, I’d give this a thumbs up.

I’ve spoken a lot about prose in past posts if you wish to go through those.

Also, almost forgot to say, something about the dialogue and such feels really stiff to me. I got distracted by other things and forgot to put that down.

@Mortrexo

...Damn, that cover. Okay, I'll read it today.

There, finally launched through these. Been working on some stuff behind the scenes for certain things so I don't have to ever repeat them again. Working on a simple guide to grammar and structuring to make work presentable. The whole spiel I went on before about why grammar matters and the different approaches to it (Orwellian Prose & Lyricism, though I'd argue that Cinematic Prose works best for webnovels) gives a touch of what I'm putting together for others to reference. More it hits well at the "why" behind it.
 
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Lire

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Newbie here! This thread is really cool!

Please and thank you!

An Author's Survival Guide
 

Story_Marc

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Newbie here! This thread is really cool!

Please and thank you!

I'm currently working on a grammar/style guide, so I'll send that your way when I'm done. The reason why is because your prose could use some cleaning up. When it comes to the actual content though, I was cracking up as I read. Yes, I would keep reading on because you delivered so well on character. You delivered so well that... Okay, this might sound weird, but when it comes to webnovels, there are many stories I start wanting to enjoy, but I end up getting disappointed early on. I'm used to polished works, so I can be picky sometimes. In your case, I went in with the exact opposite impression. I thought I wasn't going to care for it since I'm not big into modern isekai, but instead, I got engaged due to your character work and the fact it made me laugh. It makes me think less of modern, cliche-ridden isekai and more self-aware, comedic isekai that plans to have fun with the premise. Which, really, I should've expected from the title, but I can be a jaded reader sometimes. Regardless, prose issues aside, this made me laugh. It made me feel things. Hell, I already like people like the girlfriend since she got me to laugh. Which... well, I'll segway this into a quick lesson, since that seems to be my thing.

Laughter is great for hooking readers early on! There are scientific reasons for this, of course. You tap into this well, so yeah.

Alright, now to do @Mortrexo since I tried to think about more stuff I could add beyond what I already said in the thread about where to start. Lead me to do more research and review some stuff. I think I have together what I want to say, just simplifying it all so I don't do my more lengthy posts. I'll try to add something more, but I would've passed on this one since it just wasn't engaged with this giant setpiece opening. So I've been gathering notes on starting In Modus Res like this one was, to add more than what I've previously said.
 

Lire

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I'm currently working on a grammar/style guide, so I'll send that your way when I'm done. The reason why is because your prose could use some cleaning up. When it comes to the actual content though, I was cracking up as I read. Yes, I would keep reading on because you delivered so well on character. You delivered so well that... Okay, this might sound weird, but when it comes to webnovels, there are many stories I start wanting to enjoy, but I end up getting disappointed early on. I'm used to polished works, so I can be picky sometimes. In your case, I went in with the exact opposite impression. I thought I wasn't going to care for it since I'm not big into modern isekai, but instead, I got engaged due to your character work and the fact it made me laugh. It makes me think less of modern, cliche-ridden isekai and more self-aware, comedic isekai that plans to have fun with the premise. Which, really, I should've expected from the title, but I can be a jaded reader sometimes. Regardless, prose issues aside, this made me laugh. It made me feel things. Hell, I already like people like the girlfriend since she got me to laugh. Which... well, I'll segway this into a quick lesson, since that seems to be my thing.

Laughter is great for hooking readers early on! There are scientific reasons for this, of course. You tap into this well, so yeah.

Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, my style and prose are both gonna be super weak since mine's just a result of what I learned from my long stint as a reader.
I'm actually aware that there are inconsistencies sometimes, but I don't really know how to fix them yet, so I leave them out for now.

I'm looking forward to that style guide!
And I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.
The fact that you ended up liking the characters is great since I actually spent quite a bit of effort fleshing them out in my head.

Again, thank you for the feedback and I hope you have a wonderful rest-of-your-day!
 

Candescence

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I imagine you missed my last post since it took a while to be approved, but it's not a huge deal anyway since I got some feedback from another long-time author and I inserted a new, short first chapter as a in media res scene anyhow, in order to establish the plot and what it's generally about first, along with establishing the superheroine identities of the main characters before slowing down and establishing things more with chapter 2. Considering the shortness of the chapter and its general purpose, I think it serves its purpose well enough.

 

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I imagine you missed my last post since it took a while to be approved, but it's not a huge deal anyway since I got some feedback from another long-time author and I inserted a new, short first chapter as a in media res scene anyhow, in order to establish the plot and what it's generally about first, along with establishing the superheroine identities of the main characters before slowing down and establishing things more with chapter 2. Considering the shortness of the chapter and its general purpose, I think it serves its purpose well enough.

I missed this? Okay, I'll read over it. Just got back from making sense of some notes, so first, I owe @Mortrexo a full response and maybe something that can teach something new.

So, real quick, I first started thinking about stuff like The Rule of 10. You do deliver on a genre pertinent event and make clear this is a Xianxia genre story. Plus the type of things expected. However, I kept not caring throughout the battle and thinking why. That's what lead me back to studying up on In Medias Res, including reviewing some stuff I studied weeks ago. Something felt off and I think I know what it is: narrative distance!

So, here's a quick thing on psychic distance aka narrative distance. I'm going to grab from this article first before weaving it back to an earlier lesson I gave (and expand on that lesson)

The narrative distance scale

When narrative distance is at its greatest, the story is in a distant narration mode. As readers, we’re watching from afar, surveying characters and events with an objective and impersonal eye – think of it as the equivalent of a wide shot in a movie.

Then, as the distance narrows slightly, a character comes into view. At this stage, all we can know about the character is what we can intuit from external clues (like physical appearance, expressions, dialogue and actions). And as the narrative distance shrinks further, the narrator begins to offer us glimpses into the character’s subjective experience – their thoughts and feelings.

When narrative distance is removed altogether, we’re in a close character mode. It’s as if we’re inhabiting the character’s consciousness: seeing through their eyes, thinking their thoughts, feeling what they feel, right there in the moment with them.

John Gardner, in his book The Art of Fiction, helpfully plotted out five points on the narrative distance scale, beginning at a great narrative distance (or psychic distance, as he refers to it) and gradually closing in:


1. It was winter of the year 1853. A large man stepped out of a doorway.

We’re in distant narration mode here; the narrator is providing context in an objective and impersonal way. This works well for setting the scene, but if we were to stay at this level of detachment for the rest of the story, we’d have a hard time connecting with characters and events.

2. Henry J. Warburton had never much cared for snowstorms.

The narrator now imparts a couple of details about the character – an objective fact (his name) and an insight into his subjective experience (he never much cared for snowstorms) – which draws us a step closer.

3. Henry hated snowstorms

We’re now on first name terms with the character. We have a clearer sense of his subjective experience – not only does he not care for snowstorms, but he hates them. The effect is more personal and informal than the previous example, drawing us closer still.

4. God how he hated these damn snowstorms.

Hear how the character’s voice and language comes through? This is free indirect style – the narration takes on the character’s mode of speaking.

5. Snow. Under your collar, down inside your shoes, freezing and plugging up your miserable soul…

We’re in close character mode now. We’re so deeply immersed in the character’s mind that we’re experiencing his thoughts, feelings, and perceptions with him in the moment, in a stream of consciousness. The effect is incredibly intimate and direct. But if the story stays at this level, the reader might be left feeling puzzled over the lack of wider context.

In your case, the story start is presented at distance #1 (I swear it would make sense to call it 5, since it's the furthest away), which has that impact of making it hard to connect to characters and events. It's just an omniscient narrator, so I find it harder to gain an emotional gauge.

This links around to two things which I was thinking on. First I thought maybe the issue lay with starting with action, hence the In Medias Res stuff. However, I recognized I was slightly off due to it working for the genre and it is set up for the rest of the story. That's why I reviewed something that put well the two things most people look for:

1) This is the exact type of story they're personally looking for
2) The writing is solid enough to promise a good tale throughout

Considerations of a writer's approach to prose will jump out first because it's difficult to enjoy the plot and the story is presented in a way that makes it hard to enjoy. Hence why this becomes an issue with starting from a distance instead of immersing in a character. More it just isn't the ideal POV presentation to start with. This is where it comes around to the start narrow and expand out stuff I mentioned in an earlier post.

Also, real quick for anybody reading this, the key to an action opening is that the action is still set up for the main conflict as opposed to it being us starting at the main conflict. A good example is Captain America: Civil War. It starts with action, but that action is just set up for what the main conflict actually is. It also is much easier to use these openings for sequels or stuff with established IPs, because people aren't coming in cold to it.

Anyway, while I can see prose stuff I'd clean up I've mentioned before,

Oh! I just realized another thing that felt off to me while typing, because of the distance! This may be another thing that threw me off since I hadn't been given any reason to immerse. It comes off as melodramatic to me. My mind went to Story by Robert McKee on what causes something to feel melodramatic.

THE PROBLEM OF MELODRAMA
To avoid the accusation “This script is melodramatic,” many avoid writing “big scenes,” passionate, powerful events. Instead, they write minimalist sketches in which little if anything happens, thinking they’re subtle. This is folly. Nothing human beings do in and of itself is melodramatic, and human beings are capable of anything. Daily newspapers record acts of enormous self-sacrifice and cruelty, of daring and cowardliness, of saints and tyrants from Mother Teresa to Saddam Hussein. Anything you can imagine human beings doing, they have already done and in ways you cannot imagine. None of it is melodrama; it’s simply human.

Melodrama is not the result of overexpression, but of under motivation; not writing too big, but writing with too little desire. The power of an event can only be as great as the sum total of its causes.

I think the event lacked in strength for me since everything was so distant, I had no time to invest in these people or the situation (hadn't had the opportunity to yet), and it's presented with a POV choice that makes it all the more difficult to emotionally engage. What it has going for it is genre strength and some interesting ideas it sets up like reincarnation, but I feel the way it's presented could be stronger.

And there, that's what I can come up with so far after looking over this and pushing myself. At first, I wondered if it started too soon maybe, but recognizing the genre for what it is made me recognize that no, the problem isn't there, I need to think harder. This is the conclusion I came to after studying up on In Medias Res more again and connecting it with other things. Thank you for presenting this challenge to me as I feel I grew again as an author and editor! :s_smile: I was stumped since I like the genre and noticed all kinds of craft stuff that it was doing well, so I needed to figure out where things were awry without saying to just change where the story starts since I didn't feel that would be the correct advice. Narrative distance combined with stuff I've said before, however, I think it is. Pl
 

Mortrexo

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Interesting. I've never heard of narrative distance, but I didn't want the reader to feel empathetic toward those two characters... I wanted them to know about that event because I then delve into it as the story goes on, fleshing out what was happening at that time and why that initial scene was important. However, I can see where you are coming from. Thanks for your hard work.
 

Story_Marc

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Interesting. I've never heard of narrative distance, but I didn't want the reader to feel empathetic toward those two characters... I wanted them to know about that event because I then delve into it as the story goes on, fleshing out what was happening at that time and why that initial scene was important. However, I can see where you are coming from. Thanks for your hard work.
More my logic is to make me feel anything at all. If the goal is to just know the event happens, I don't see how it isn't just the equivalent of an info dump. At the core there must be something to make the reader feel something early on. It goes back to what I said with lesson #3 here. Or stuff I discuss in this video.


More that's why being so distant and just focusing on information early on can potentially be so damaging. Emotion is always something I'll argue for early on, with the underlying logic behind it being detailed here.

But yeah, don't have to make sympathetic, but that's a whole other bag of worms. Still, as I discuss in lesson #3 example, it's often better to start narrow and expand out than to try to open on something grand. Though this whole research with In Medias Res helped me further get down on when you can do it and why.

Also, there's the whole first impressions thing and all, which... again, my video and previous critique elaborates on the "first five pages" thing.

But yeah, hope this all made for some valuable stuff to think about! It's what I noticed that can interfere with readers, though not every reader is the same, obviously.

Honestly, a part of me was surprised you even asked, you're in a much better position than me right now as I'm just returning to the web novelist game after years away studying and training. :LOL: You're clearly doing enough right, with me positive what I mentioned with genre goods and such factoring in. I imagine some other things too, but that would require me reading past the first chapter. The premise itself still sounds great, to toss in. It's something I'd delve deeper into if I saw it in passing.
 

Mortrexo

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Interesting video; I can get behind most of the points you pointed out.

To be honest with you, This novel is my first novel, and I started writing it for fun, without the goal of it becoming popular. I haven't studied writing, and everything I write comes from experience as a reader. English isn't even my first language; it is my third! Hahaha.

Therefore, I've always written without having anything like this in mind, my objective has always been, "Advance the plot at a reasonable pace" "Do not get stuck in a dramatic plot for long" "What would be fun for the reader?" and "Maintain the reader's interest by adding new things to the world once in a while or creating conflict and enemies." Even right at this moment, although I have the general direction of the plot written, I am still developing the world, characters, and concepts as I continue writing.

My humble advice will be not to be too bothered if you don't develop the whole world because as you write about it, it will come to life inside your head, giving it more depth, and it will naturally become more interesting. But this is my modest opinion as an amateur writer.
 

Story_Marc

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Interesting video; I can get behind most of the points you pointed out.

To be honest with you, This novel is my first novel, and I started writing it for fun, without the goal of it becoming popular. I haven't studied writing, and everything I write comes from experience as a reader. English isn't even my first language; it is my third! Hahaha.

Therefore, I've always written without having anything like this in mind, my objective has always been, "Advance the plot at a reasonable pace" "Do not get stuck in a dramatic plot for long" "What would be fun for the reader?" and "Maintain the reader's interest by adding new things to the world once in a while or creating conflict and enemies." Even right at this moment, although I have the general direction of the plot written, I am still developing the world, characters, and concepts as I continue writing.

My humble advice will be not to be too bothered if you don't develop the whole world because as you write about it, it will come to life inside your head, giving it more depth, and it will naturally become more interesting. But this is my modest opinion as an amateur writer.
I've found many don't with this stuff on their mind -- which isn't a bad thing! The main reason I've delved this deep is because of my desire for proficiency within this one domain.

Oh, and thanks for that advice! I'm actually not worried about developing whole worlds and so on. On a personal level, I think worldbuilding is overrated, and what truly matters when it comes to it is cultural worldbuilding. That said, I do recognize how much it depends on the genre and blah blah blah, this goes into a lot of psyche stuff I've studied to the genre and so on.

My personal concerns are me not hitting the sweet spot between what I love reading/experience/making and genres that sell. Since my passion project isn't Rising Heroes, Fantasy, Isekai, LitRPG, or smu-- Okay, I'm not writing it in the main series, but I've side material for that. Regardless, I seem to be doing well so far starting out, so will see where I end up. :LOL:

At any rate, I give absolute props to anybody who does share their work, finds a way to profit from it, and contributes something. It's why I argue that something "imperfect" (perfection is a lie anyway) is better than nothing in the art world. Are there ways to improve? Of course! That's mainly what I try to help out with, though I'm limiting myself since I don't want to overwhelm others or myself.

AND SPEAKING OF, IT'S TIME FOR @Candescence's feedback!

I'd like to see the original starting point. This action opening just doesn't work, for the same reasons I've told so many others. I address it a bit on this page and link to other stuff I discuss as well, including stuff on The Catastrophe Hook.

I've also discussed a bit of stuff with prose, particularly with how naming emotions are a red flag for telling since the reader is just being informed what someone is feeling, not filtered into the experience. I've spoken on verbs a little as well (I think?), but I'm going to add more to it, thanks to my research from last night.

First, if you're going to use stuff like "looked" or so on, better to use stronger verbs that have more precision. This helps to strengthen it and add greater clarity -- clarity being one of the five Cs of strong prose. Good example, going from look alone...


Quickly
Glance
Glimpse
Scan
Skim
Spot

Subtly
Peek
Peer
Scout
Spy

Obviously
Gape
Gawk
Ogle
Stare
Watch

Continually
Admire
Appraise
Behold
Focus
Gaze
Observe
Peruse
Pore over
Regard
Study
View

I'd factor in euphonics (the emotions certain sounds evoke) as well if I were doing it, but... I'm not giving that lesson here because it's such a huge lesson and more of an advanced, precision related thing.

But yeah, I don't want to go into prose-strengthening stuff yet when I see issues with the macro. Which of Sanderson's books have you read? I can take action prologues from those and build on them for the lesson, blended in with what I've said before. Since Sanderson loves to start out with a character who is experienced in the magic system active, though he doesn't start literally in the middle of it. My immediate thoughts were to draw from Warbreaker, though stuff like Wax & Wayne come to mind as well. I could also pull from non-Cosmere books, like The Reckoners Trilogy. I can't with certain series yet, but if you bring them up, I can go do some analysis.

In your case, we're thrown so fast into things without any setup to care that... well, see all the stuff I shared with Mortrexo.
 

Candescence

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AND SPEAKING OF, IT'S TIME FOR @Candescence's feedback!

I'd like to see the original starting point. This action opening just doesn't work, for the same reasons I've told so many others. I address it a bit on this page and link to other stuff I discuss as well, including stuff on The Catastrophe Hook.

I've also discussed a bit of stuff with prose, particularly with how naming emotions are a red flag for telling since the reader is just being informed what someone is feeling, not filtered into the experience. I've spoken on verbs a little as well (I think?), but I'm going to add more to it, thanks to my research from last night.

First, if you're going to use stuff like "looked" or so on, better to use stronger verbs that have more precision. This helps to strengthen it and add greater clarity -- clarity being one of the five Cs of strong prose. Good example, going from look alone...


Quickly
Glance
Glimpse
Scan
Skim
Spot

Subtly
Peek
Peer
Scout
Spy

Obviously
Gape
Gawk
Ogle
Stare
Watch

Continually
Admire
Appraise
Behold
Focus
Gaze
Observe
Peruse
Pore over
Regard
Study
View

I'd factor in euphonics (the emotions certain sounds evoke) as well if I were doing it, but... I'm not giving that lesson here because it's such a huge lesson and more of an advanced, precision related thing.

But yeah, I don't want to go into prose-strengthening stuff yet when I see issues with the macro. Which of Sanderson's books have you read? I can take action prologues from those and build on them for the lesson, blended in with what I've said before. Since Sanderson loves to start out with a character who is experienced in the magic system active, though he doesn't start literally in the middle of it. My immediate thoughts were to draw from Warbreaker, though stuff like Wax & Wayne come to mind as well. I could also pull from non-Cosmere books, like The Reckoners Trilogy. I can't with certain series yet, but if you bring them up, I can go do some analysis.

In your case, we're thrown so fast into things without any setup to care that... well, see all the stuff I shared with Mortrexo.
The original first chapter actually ended up becoming chapter 2, which is mostly the same, aside from excising unnecessary exposition and descriptions. The main problem with it is that I was told it was too mundane in its start. But in general I guess the general approach of an "action opening" isn't the wrong one to take, it's just that the approach I took doesn't really work as far as you're concerned. Hmm.

I also threw out a prologue that probably had more intrigue but also had nothing really to do with the rest of the story.

The main problem is that the main characters have a fairly ordinary start to their story and it takes a couple of chapters for the inciting incident to begin, and they aren't aware of or have access to paranormal abilities at first - at least, in how the narrative is laid out at the moment.

I've read all the Stormlight books (aside from Dawnshard), Warbreaker and Elantris, for the record. I do have Mistborn: The Secret Empire, though I haven't gotten into it yet.
 
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Story_Marc

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The original first chapter actually ended up becoming chapter 2, which is mostly the same, aside from excising unnecessary exposition and descriptions. The main problem with it is that I was told it was too mundane in its start. But in general I guess the general approach of an "action opening" isn't the wrong one to take, it's just that the approach I took doesn't really work as far as you're concerned. Hmm.

I also threw out a prologue that probably had more intrigue but also had nothing really to do with the rest of the story.

The main problem is that the main characters have a fairly ordinary start to their story and it takes a couple of chapters for the inciting incident to begin, and they aren't aware of or have access to paranormal abilities at first - at least, in how the narrative is laid out at the moment.

I've read all the Stormlight books (aside from Dawnshard), Warbreaker and Elantris, for the record. I do have Mistborn: The Secret Empire, though I haven't gotten into it yet.
Alright, having read the second chapter, I can see the issues here. Honestly, it seems a lot of stuff I've already addressed in this thread can be relevant, including the whole "waking up" stuff. As said, I'd go through a lot of the feedback I've given others already, such as the key to doing an action one well with catastrophe hook stuff. But yeah, wanted to customize this one a bit more to you using something we're both familiar with!

Let's use Warbreaker! It can be freely read online by anybody who wishes to check for themselves.

The story doesn't start with a fight or running away or so on. It starts with Vasher's reaction to the aftermath of a fight, with him musing about how often his adventures begin with him getting thrown into prison. Which alone tells us a lot about his character. What follows is him making us invest in him with him being a badass, keeping silent (I discuss B.C.I. in one of my videos.). A lot of stuff is colored through him and we're focused on him as a character interacting with all this, in ways that showcase personality as opposed to just basic stuff. We see how composed he is in the face of this and the actual stuff tends to focus more on his character and immediate goal. It's mysterious, yes, but we're first immersed into the character of Vasher and made to care about him before all else.

It's all a characteristic moment.





Watch these three videos, read over stuff I've told other people already, and I think you'll be able to see how it's relevant to your two opening attempts. Also, take a look at Warbreaker with this lense (or Mistborn's opening as well) and you'll see what I mean.

I can't speak for Elantris as it's a book I just haven't felt like reading and The Way of Kings is... I just turned to one of my IRL bookcases, looked at that book, and... I just dislike using it as an example since Sanderson himself fully admits it's him at his most self-indulgent, with things like it having a prologue to the prologue and just... it's super advanced stuff, some of which you can only get away with when you're an established name and people are more willing to cut you slack. But, sigh... You can see the fundamentals I speak of here too with it, both with the prelude (it starts immediately after the catastrophe) and with the actual prologue with the assassin.

Anyway, read over my thread with stuff I point out to others, watch my videos, look at Warbreaker (and maybe Mistborn's prologue), and you'll see how everything I speak about comes across.

Hope it all can help too! I am sorry that I'm not writing it all specifically to you as I did them. The issues I notice are common and repeating the same replies is exhausting because of how repetitive it is. It's one of the many reasons I started my channel; so I can speed up the process for others and have all my lengthy shit stored in one unified reference place.

Finally, just wanted to say on your premise, I like it! I actually super want to see a novel like this with Henshin stuff as I grew up with it and even now, I still love it. So I'm curious how you'll bring it together! Like, I'm curious on your influences with it and wondering if any recommendations I can give and blah blah blah. But yes, seeing stuff like that in novel form would make me super happy!
 

Candescence

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Messages
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Alright, having read the second chapter, I can see the issues here. Honestly, it seems a lot of stuff I've already addressed in this thread can be relevant, including the whole "waking up" stuff. As said, I'd go through a lot of the feedback I've given others already, such as the key to doing an action one well with catastrophe hook stuff. But yeah, wanted to customize this one a bit more to you using something we're both familiar with!

Let's use Warbreaker! It can be freely read online by anybody who wishes to check for themselves.

The story doesn't start with a fight or running away or so on. It starts with Vasher's reaction to the aftermath of a fight, with him musing about how often his adventures begin with him getting thrown into prison. Which alone tells us a lot about his character. What follows is him making us invest in him with him being a badass, keeping silent (I discuss B.C.I. in one of my videos.). A lot of stuff is colored through him and we're focused on him as a character interacting with all this, in ways that showcase personality as opposed to just basic stuff. We see how composed he is in the face of this and the actual stuff tends to focus more on his character and immediate goal. It's mysterious, yes, but we're first immersed into the character of Vasher and made to care about him before all else.

It's all a characteristic moment.





Watch these three videos, read over stuff I've told other people already, and I think you'll be able to see how it's relevant to your two opening attempts. Also, take a look at Warbreaker with this lense (or Mistborn's opening as well) and you'll see what I mean.

I can't speak for Elantris as it's a book I just haven't felt like reading and The Way of Kings is... I just turned to one of my IRL bookcases, looked at that book, and... I just dislike using it as an example since Sanderson himself fully admits it's him at his most self-indulgent, with things like it having a prologue to the prologue and just... it's super advanced stuff, some of which you can only get away with when you're an established name and people are more willing to cut you slack. But, sigh... You can see the fundamentals I speak of here too with it, both with the prelude (it starts immediately after the catastrophe) and with the actual prologue with the assassin.

Anyway, read over my thread with stuff I point out to others, watch my videos, look at Warbreaker (and maybe Mistborn's prologue), and you'll see how everything I speak about comes across.

Hope it all can help too! I am sorry that I'm not writing it all specifically to you as I did them. The issues I notice are common and repeating the same replies is exhausting because of how repetitive it is. It's one of the many reasons I started my channel; so I can speed up the process for others and have all my lengthy shit stored in one unified reference place.

Finally, just wanted to say on your premise, I like it! I actually super want to see a novel like this with Henshin stuff as I grew up with it and even now, I still love it. So I'm curious how you'll bring it together! Like, I'm curious on your influences with it and wondering if any recommendations I can give and blah blah blah. But yes, seeing stuff like that in novel form would make me super happy!
Right, no worries, I'll give all of that stuff a look-over when I have time, thanks.

And yeah, thanks a lot, I was a kid of the 90s and early 2000s, so stuff like Power Rangers, Sailor Moon, Cardcaptors, DBZ, TMNT, Pokemon, Digimon, the DCAU, etc. were my bread and butter growing up. And more recently I've discovered stuff like Type-Moon's material and Lyrical Nanoha. Other inspirations for this story include Kill la Kill, Mega Man, Mass Effect (in many ways the sci-fi part of the setting is very much "anime Mass Effect", though with more varied and unique species designs) and some comics stuff. I haven't watched Kamen Rider or Guyver, but their influence is in there as well, even if it's only visual. Also, probably plenty of other stuff that doesn't immediately come to mind.

And I do kinda want to recreate the feel of henshin hero shows at least a bit with this story, including elements like the "monster of the week", albeit in a way that makes more sense in a novel.

But in general, figuring out the best possible beginning for the story as it is now is going to be a little tricky, since the three protagonists don't start out with their abilities or awareness of the paranormal, and I think that's the best starting point for them that makes sense. Sanderson admits in the annotations that Warbreaker's prologue is a bit sneaky since Vasher as the fourth viewpoint doesn't get a lot of focus after said prologue in terms of his viewpoint, but it works precisely because it establishes the magic system and setting immediately. In terms of characters remotely relevant to the narrative in Henshin Sisters who come to mind that might fill a similar purpose would be Tharen, who is a soldier and a notable secondary character with explicit stakes in the plot, and Vol'Dathar, the Miama archmage who was supposed to originally be one of the mentor figures to the protagonists before things went awry. Tharen understands the basics of the magic system but isn't an expert nor a mage, and Vol'Dathar shows up like once as a hologram and likely won't show up for the rest of the narrative. So the first chapter/prologue viewpoint is likely gonna be Tharen, or I'll have to take a different approach.

But yeah, it's gonna take a lot of thought.

Edit: It just occurred to me that Tharen logically should have some basic access to the magic system, actually, he's just not a dedicated mage. Would still need to figure out a reason for him to properly make use of it in the prologue, however.
 
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Mortrexo

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Messages
142
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83
Quickly
Glance
Glimpse
Scan
Skim
Spot

Subtly
Peek
Peer
Scout
Spy

Obviously
Gape
Gawk
Ogle
Stare
Watch

Continually
Admire
Appraise
Behold
Focus
Gaze
Observe
Peruse
Pore over
Regard
Study
View
So... Can you do this but with the action of speaking?
 

Story_Marc

Share your fun!
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
365
Points
108
So... Can you do this but with the action of speaking?
Sure! I don't recommend it often for reasons I mentioned on the first page (I think?) with how the dialogue being strong conveys the emotion more often than not, but I know how to use tags regardless and I've no issue telling others.

Emotion: Anger
accused; argued; barked; belittled; bellowed; berated; bit out; blasted; blasted back; blazed; blew up; boomed; bossed; bragged; broke in; bullied; burst out; called; called out; carped; cautioned; challenged; charged; chided; commanded; complained; condemned; confuted; cried; cried out; criticized; cursed; demanded; demurred; dinned; disrupted; exploded; expostulated; flashed; fumed; grated; gritted out; growled; grunted; hissed; hollered; howled; insinuated; insulted; intimidated; jeered; lectured; leered; lied; mocked; muttered; nagged; objected; persisted; preached; proclaimed; profaned; provoked; quarreled; raged; railed; rambled; ranted; remonstrated; reprimanded; retorted; roared; sassed; scoffed; scolded; screamed; seethed; shot; shot back; shouted; shrieked; shrilled; snapped; snarled; sneered; snorted; spat; spat out; squawked; stormed; swore; taunted; threatened; threw back; thundered; told off; vociferated; vowed; warned; yelled.

Emotion: Fear
appealed; babbled; bawled; begged; beseeched; blubbered; burst out; called; called out; chattered; choked; choked out; cracked; cried; cried out; croaked; emitted; entreated; exclaimed; faltered; fretted; gagged; gasped; got out; gritted out; gulped; hesitated; hissed; howled; implored; managed; mewled; moaned; mumbled; murmured; muttered; petitioned; pleaded; prayed; puled; quaked; quavered; quivered; rambled; ranted; screamed; shrieked; shuddered; sobbed; spluttered; squeaked; stammered; started; stuttered; trembled; wailed; warbled; wept; whimpered; whispered; worried; yelped; yowled.

Emotion: Happiness
babbled; bantered; beamed; bubbled; burst out; cackled; caroled; chanted; chatted; cheered; chortled; chuckled; congratulated; giggled; greeted; grinned; guffawed; gushed; hooted; jabbered; jested; joked; joshed; laughed; marveled; purred; rambled; rejoiced; sang; smiled; smirked; snickered; snorted; thanked (someone); yapped.


Emotion: Love
announced; assured; babbled; bantered; beckoned; breathed; bubbled; cajoled; coaxed; comforted; confided; congratulated; consoled; cooed; counseled; craved; crooned; declared; doted; empathized; encouraged; giggled; greeted; grinned; groaned; gushed;
invited; moaned; mused; persuaded; pledged; pouted; praised; proclaimed; professed; proposed; purred; rambled; reassured; rejoiced; sang; sassed; sighed; smiled; smirked; teased; tempted; urged; ventured; vowed.


Emotion: Sadness
agonized; appealed; argued; barked; bawled; bayed; begged; bellowed; bemoaned; bewailed; bickered; bleated; blubbered; carped; caviled; clamored; complained; cried; deplored; fussed; gagged; glowered; groaned; grouched; growled; grumbled; hissed; howled; keened; lamented; mewled; moaned; mourned; murmured; muttered; nagged; objected; protested; puled; quarreled; quetched; quibbled; roared; rued; screamed; screeched; shouted; shrieked; sighed; sniffed; sniffled; sniveled; sobbed; spat; spat out; squalled; squawked; squealed; threatened; trembled; ululated; wailed; wept; whimpered; whined; whinged; whispered; yammered; yelled; yelped.

Emotion: Surprise
blurted; blurted out; breathed; burst out; called; called out; cried; cried out; exclaimed; faltered; gasped; gawped; gulped; hesitated; inquired; interjected; interrupted; marveled; objected; protested; puzzled; quaked; quavered; queried; questioned; quivered; quizzed; shouted; shrieked; shrilled; spat out; spluttered; sputtered; squeaked; stammered; started; stressed; stuttered; swore; trembled; trilled; trumpeted; worried; yelped; yowled.


Dynamics: Loud
barked; bawled; bellowed; blasted; blazed; blew up; boomed; called; called out; chanted; cheered; cried; cried out; crowed; dinned; exploded; hollered; hooted; howled; keened; mewled; raged; ranted; roared; screamed; shouted; shrieked; shrilled; stormed; thundered; trumpeted; wailed; whined; yelled; yelped; yowled.


Dynamics: Soft
breathed; cooed; crooned; gasped; gawped; grinned; gulped; mumbled; murmured; muttered; nodded; purred; quivered; shrugged; shuddered; sighed; smiled; smirked; snarled; sneered; snickered; sniffed; sniffled; squeaked; trembled; twittered; whimpered; whispered; yawned.
 

Mortrexo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
142
Points
83
Oh wow, thank you! I agree with you on this statement, but they can come in handy when there is a lot of conversation going back and forth.
Sure! I don't recommend it often for reasons I mentioned on the first page (I think?) with how the dialogue being strong conveys the emotion more often than not, but I know how to use tags regardless and I've no issue telling others.
 

Story_Marc

Share your fun!
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
365
Points
108
Right, no worries, I'll give all of that stuff a look-over when I have time, thanks.

And yeah, thanks a lot, I was a kid of the 90s and early 2000s, so stuff like Power Rangers, Sailor Moon, Cardcaptors, DBZ, TMNT, Pokemon, Digimon, the DCAU, etc. were my bread and butter growing up. And more recently I've discovered stuff like Type-Moon's material and Lyrical Nanoha. Other inspirations for this story include Kill la Kill, Mega Man, Mass Effect (in many ways the sci-fi part of the setting is very much "anime Mass Effect", though with more varied and unique species designs) and some comics stuff. I haven't watched Kamen Rider or Guyver, but their influence is in there as well, even if it's only visual. Also, probably plenty of other stuff that doesn't immediately come to mind.

And I do kinda want to recreate the feel of henshin hero shows at least a bit with this story, including elements like the "monster of the week", albeit in a way that makes more sense in a novel.

But in general, figuring out the best possible beginning for the story as it is now is going to be a little tricky, since the three protagonists don't start out with their abilities or awareness of the paranormal, and I think that's the best starting point for them that makes sense. Sanderson admits in the annotations that Warbreaker's prologue is a bit sneaky since Vasher as the fourth viewpoint doesn't get a lot of focus after said prologue in terms of his viewpoint, but it works precisely because it establishes the magic system and setting immediately. In terms of characters remotely relevant to the narrative in Henshin Sisters who come to mind that might fill a similar purpose would be Tharen, who is a soldier and a notable secondary character with explicit stakes in the plot, and Vol'Dathar, the Miama archmage who was supposed to originally be one of the mentor figures to the protagonists before things went awry. Tharen understands the basics of the magic system but isn't an expert nor a mage, and Vol'Dathar shows up like once as a hologram and likely won't show up for the rest of the narrative. So the first chapter/prologue viewpoint is likely gonna be Tharen, or I'll have to take a different approach.

But yeah, it's gonna take a lot of thought.

Edit: It just occurred to me that Tharen logically should have some basic access to the magic system, actually, he's just not a dedicated mage. Would still need to figure out a reason for him to properly make use of it in the prologue, however.
I can think of two ways to start, depending. One is to open with a villain intro, with the comparison I'd make to a film like Mulan. The original one, not that terrible live-action remake. It can help create a ticking clock and establish why the villain is to be worried about.

As for the girls, I'd think less about their powers and more about their identity. It goes back to what I said in the first video about a characteristic moment. Like, when I point to the Yor example, it's just her at work. However, her characteristic moment introduction involves her being confused with relation to social stuff and bullied for it. We don't find out she's an assassin until her third scene.

Figure out a way to introduce one of the girls in a way that showcases her-- well, see the video. XD It's why I made it. :LOL:

Any ideas for how you can do a characteristic moment? I can probably go through examples you mention for them too, such as Power Rangers or Fate or... well, a lot of examples, I'm a 90s kid as well, so I'm an equal lover of those many things.
 
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