For non-harem lovers.

DanielPotter

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As a person who dislikes harem, name a novel(s) that you have read or are currently reading that you can't help but cheer for it to go for the harem route or for the MC to add a few women to his already existing harem.

Mine:
Blood Warlock: Succubus partner in the apocalypse.
My Three Wives Are Beautiful Vampires.
 

SailusGebel

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Why would I want a perfectly fine novel to go harem?
Harem is massively overrated.
Because a lot of the authors don't even mention the best girls when the story ends. Is this a good enough reason?
 

K5Rakitan

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All the stories should have group marriage.
 

lnv

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As a person who dislikes harem, name a novel(s) that you have read or are currently reading that you can't help but cheer for it to go for the harem route or for the MC to add a few women to his already existing harem.

Mine:
Blood Warlock: Succubus partner in the apocalypse.
My Three Wives Are Beautiful Vampires.

Sure, here is my list:



Because a lot of the authors don't even mention the best girls when the story ends. Is this a good enough reason?

So you are saying because best girl isn't mentioned, instead of finding someone deserving of her and treating her as his only one, she should be part of MC's harem instead? Why do people hate their best girl so much?
 

Anon2024

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I find harems to be largely unrealistic and far too hopeful.

All the girls perfectly fine with sharing one man? You know history has shown over and over the wives/concubines fight for resources and power unless they’re all sisters.

In some Himalayan communities where the men (brothers) have to share a wife the younger brothers often look for any opportunity they can to leave.
 

BenJepheneT

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I find harems to be largely unrealistic and far too hopeful.

All the girls perfectly fine with sharing one man? You know history has shown over and over the wives/concubines fight for resources and power unless they’re all sisters.

In some Himalayan communities where the men (brothers) have to share a wife the younger brothers often look for any opportunity they can to leave.
I'll probably be branded some deviant but I have to mention this: a lot of people would be willing to forgo realism for many of their favourite troupes. Such as hyper-smart MCs somehow thinking on the fly with seventeen grenade indicators on his HUD, or "the power of friendship" shounen MCs beating the shit out of the villain when they're at their weakest, or some mega-gambler hitting a blackjack when the card count indicates there's only one Ace left on the deck. They'd jump in hype and joy as soon as those mega-low odds or Deus Ex Machina hits.

But somehow, when the topic of harem comes up, somehow everyone puts on their Rational Thinking Cap and goes, "hmm yes, many parties share one object of adoration, is very untrue and fake".

Not directing this statement for this comment in particular, but just an observation in general. It goes the other way too; some guy might shit on Dragon Ball shounentards constantly but then their top 1 in MAL is Monster Musume.

All I'm asking is some consistency. Either all the wishful bullshit is okay, or none of it is okay. Everyone KNOWS harems rarely ever work out more than 3 weeks, give or take. It's a constant subconscious realization every time the heroine goes "we can love the same guy together!" Going out of your way to state the obvious just looks like you're standing on your bias trying to mask it as a logical soapbox.
 

Anon2024

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I'll probably be branded some deviant but I have to mention this: a lot of people would be willing to forgo realism for many of their favourite troupes. Such as hyper-smart MCs somehow thinking on the fly with seventeen grenade indicators on his HUD, or "the power of friendship" shounen MCs beating the shit out of the villain when they're at their weakest, or some mega-gambler hitting a blackjack when the card count indicates there's only one Ace left on the deck. They'd jump in hype and joy as soon as those mega-low odds or Deus Ex Machina hits.

But somehow, when the topic of harem comes up, somehow everyone puts on their Rational Thinking Cap and goes, "hmm yes, many parties share one object of adoration, is very untrue and fake".

Not directing this statement for this comment in particular, but just an observation in general. It goes the other way too; some guy might shit on Dragon Ball shounentards constantly but then their top 1 in MAL is Monster Musume.

All I'm asking is some consistency. Either all the wishful bullshit is okay, or none of it is okay. Everyone KNOWS harems rarely ever work out more than 3 weeks, give or take. It's a constant subconscious realization every time the heroine goes "we can love the same guy together!" Going out of your way to state the obvious just looks like you're standing on your bias trying to mask it as a logical soapbox.
I never said I didn't enjoy them, but a lot of them are just hard to enjoy due to being unrealistic. There are a few enjoyable harems out there.
But I do want to correct one thing though...

When it comes to MC's beating the shit out of the villain, a smart protagonist, or all those other tropes, those are people with abilities. The suspension of disbelief is based on the rules of the world.

When it comes to MC getting a harem it's a suspension of disbelief on the behavioral and psychological level. This makes it harder for many people to not only relate, but accept them as characters. Hence why there is more hate for harem over hate for overpowered MC, because even if you can't relate on a physically realistic level there can still be relation on a motivational and psychological level.

Harem romances don't have that same broad relatability.
 

BenJepheneT

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I never said I didn't enjoy them, but a lot of them are just hard to enjoy due to being unrealistic. There are a few enjoyable harems out there.
But I do want to correct one thing though...

When it comes to MC's beating the shit out of the villain, a smart protagonist, or all those other tropes, those are people with abilities. The suspension of disbelief is based on the rules of the world.

When it comes to MC getting a harem it's a suspension of disbelief on the behavioral and psychological level. This makes it harder for many people to not only relate, but accept them as characters. Hence why there is more hate for harem over hate for overpowered MC, because even if you can't relate on a physically realistic level there can still be relation on a motivational level.

Harem romances don't have that same relatability.
I'd concede that compared to shounen, there is a steeper ratio between good series and shit series for harem stuff, but that's more to the genre itself. When you have to replace the hype of getting power with deepening relationships, shit goes wonky. It's easy to show the MC getting a more powerful Fire Punch. It's hard to show Asuna liking Kirito even more than usual.

However, I'd argue that harem stories possess a similar suspension of disbelief in terms of individual personalities. As opposed to a power system, harems rely on each of the member's characteristics. It makes more sense if you think about it like a VN dating game. You can argue that "no real human being thinks like this" but the internal consistency IS THERE (when the harem is actually written well, that is); Girl A has this issue/trait/problem/gimmick, and the MC fills that void, and in turn, emotionally satisfies her which she interprets as a feeling of intimacy since he's the one that completed her. Granted, that's an average of five different "systems" in a typical harem tale compared to just one encompassing "system" in a regular shounen series, but my point still stands.

As intricate and complicated as we'd like to think ourselves to be, humans run like machines—difficult machines, but like clockwork nonetheless. Put us in the right circumstances and variables and you can just about predict each of our every moves. Chris-Chan is an example. There are already two decades of evidence to show how trolls got him dancing a ballet like a puppet on a string. Harem stories (well-written ones, that is) apply that theory and have it play out like regular shounens, only in small doses and a healthy amount of titis and ass to fill the gap.

Though I still think it comes down to the individual. Just as I can believe MC predicted that Mercury would be in retrograde the moment his fists hit the Demon Lord six months from the battle for maximum critical damage, I can believe that ol' gloomy Lisa fell in love at first sight when MC offered to fix her glasses when she fell down the stairs. There's a system to those two scenarios, and I can believe that, so long as the author keeps it consistent.

It also depends on who's writing the stories. Somehow God just decided that only the most retarded, brain-dead, chalk-huffing individuals get to write harem stories and be done with it.
 

Anon2024

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However, I'd argue that harem stories possess a similar suspension of disbelief in terms of individual personalities. As opposed to a power system, harems rely on each of the member's characteristics. It makes more sense if you think about it like a VN dating game. You can argue that "no real human being thinks like this" but the internal consistency IS THERE (when the harem is actually written well, that is);
This is where our misunderstanding is.

1. I never argued or stated “no real human being thinks like this” only that it’s more unbelievable and not as psychologically relatable to a more broad audience (and therefore it is why there are more complaints). This is of course simply a hypothesis based on my own observation in real life along with the experience I have reading the genre.

2. There are humans who behave and think that way. The majority of people just see them as weird and can’t relate to it easily. I mean if some humans like reading about incest certainly there are men and women who fantasize about their partner rolling in the hay with someone else. The key to my hypothesis is that it’s not ”broadly relatable” thus there are far more complaints than a shounen power-up since “team work” and ”friendship” propaganda is much more prevalent in our society.

3. This is again only a hypothesis and I may not be accurate.
 

SailusGebel

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So you are saying because best girl isn't mentioned, instead of finding someone deserving of her and treating her as his only one, she should be part of MC's harem instead? Why do people hate their best girl so much?
I would prefer it if the best girl and all girls that didn't end up with MC would get their happy endings. But my preferences don't affect authors who can't write happy endings. As I said before, authors usually forget to include other girls in the ending. If it's going to be like this, I would rather have a shitty harem ending than a forced romance one where all the other girls are left with broken hearts.
 

Kenjona

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Any that I wish to go harem? None, or at least I cannot think of one particular one. I enjoy a monogamist MC at least as much as I enjoy a good harem MC (If not more). It really depends on the Harem trope sub types in my mind and what I am getting out of the Harem story. I have seen some try the realistic route but very very few ever do it well.
 

BearlyAlive

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Can we let them go harem only to bait and switch after an arc or maybe a half by giving every member their own arc and SO and then leaving the harem to be with their partner to not only be a real person but also be useful to the story and make it progress more then a harem MC ever could?

Or can the harem be an intricate plot by antagonistic factions to use the MC and set him up, only to throw him away, completely broken beyond repair? MC of course now hates harems.

Otherwise, why the fluff would you destory a wholesome meal by adding ingredients that destroy not only the flavor but make it inedible?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! (used a few extra to give it more gravitas)
 

lnv

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I would prefer it if the best girl and all girls that didn't end up with MC would get their happy endings. But my preferences don't affect authors who can't write happy endings. As I said before, authors usually forget to include other girls in the ending. If it's going to be like this, I would rather have a shitty harem ending than a forced romance one where all the other girls are left with broken hearts.

And she probably will find happiness, just not on screen. Time heals everything. Being in MC's harem isn't happiness. Even in a harem setting, there is always the "favorite", if the author did not pick them as such, that just means for all intensive purposes, she might as well be a mistress. How is that happiness?
 

SailusGebel

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And she probably will find happiness, just not on screen.
But I don't care what happens off-screen.
Being in MC's harem isn't happiness.
Who said this?
Even in a harem setting, there is always the "favorite", if the author did not pick them as such, that just means for all intensive purposes, she might as well be a mistress. How is that happiness?
Even in non-harems, there are favorites and most of the time author blindly pushes into the pairing he\she got in their mind, disregarding the chemistry of the characters. And using your logic, I know that this couple will break up, just not on the screen. How is this happiness when readers end up with a couple that doesn't suit each other?
 

lnv

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Who said this?
Then if you liked someone, would you mind being one of their harem members? Don't wish onto others what you don't wish upon yourself
Even in non-harems, there are favorites and most of the time author blindly pushes into the pairing he\she got in their mind, disregarding the chemistry of the characters. And using your logic, I know that this couple will break up, just not on the screen. How is this happiness when readers end up with a couple that doesn't suit each other?
And that is the story. I mean many in real life end up in divorces too. Just don't understand the logic of wanting your favorite to be a side mistress of the MC's harem. Them being your favorite should mean you wish happiness to them. If what you say is true that the couple will break up in the future offscreen, then maybe your favorite will get another chance after that. But making it into a harem isn't the solution
 

SailusGebel

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Then if you liked someone, would you mind being a harem member?
No. But if you ask K5, she is in a polyamorous relationship. So judging based on your own likes\dislikes isn't appropriate. If everyone involved is okay with it, even if I don't like it, it's okay.
And that is the story. I mean many in real life end up in divorces too. Just don't understand the logic of wanting your favorite to be a side mistress of the MC's harem. Them being your favorite should mean you wish happiness to them. If what you say is true that the couple will break up in the future offscreen, then maybe your favorite will get another chance after that. But making it into a harem isn't the solution
I don't care what happens in real life. Unless I'm reading a work where you can justify a bad\bittersweet ending, I want a good ending with the best girl. If the only possible way for the best girl to achieve her happiness on-screen is to be a part of the harem, I would rather have a shitty harem ending. And as I said before, I don't care what happens off-screen.
 
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