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EternalSunset0

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Thank you so much for your helpful advice in terms of grammar, cause I have never thought about how bad my grammar was :( However, since I'm doing a remaster campaign, now I have to skim through all the chapters I wrote, and it will take forever to edit all of them. It was embarrassing to say this, but ... will you be happy to become my grammar assistant?
Not sure how good I am going to be since it's also not my strong suit. And given that I come from an academic writing background (which is way different from storytelling, such as the tense things I mentioned), I'm not sure if I'll be able to do a good job at it.

But I can try to help. I think it's better to move the disucssion through PMs tho.
 
D

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Not sure how good I am going to be since it's also not my strong suit. And given that I come from an academic writing background (which is way different from storytelling, such as the tense things I mentioned), I'm not sure if I'll be able to do a good job at it.

But I can try to help. I think it's better to move the disucssion through PMs tho.
That's great news to me. Here, please take a look at the chapters.
 

ohhdearme

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I've read the whole thread, so I suppose I should join in too.

 

TheTrinary

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That's great news to me. Here, please take a look at the chapters.
Would not keep reading.

Generally speaking, the writing is super clunky. And the choice to have this one on one, personal tone/convo with the audience doesn't quite work for me either. I think conceptually, it could, but in practice you need to be really clever when presenting a story that way. What you have doesn't feel well thought out (one of the first things he says is he doesn't feel like sharing because he has trust issues, and then that's just thrown away, so you don't have continuity between sentences), and it really just feels like a flimsy excuse to have exposition.

I guess its a more interesting way to have exposition than normal, but like, maybe just tell a story and don't start by explaining everything.
 

Nhatduongg

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This is my second time going, hope it somehow got better.

So I moved what happened in the old prologue to chapter 1, and the new one I gave some rough ideas about what’s going on. But I think my explanations are quite hard to understand, what’s your opinion?

 

TheTrinary

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I've read the whole thread, so I suppose I should join in too.

Would keep reading.

I really liked that. Cool setting. Nice world building. Solid prose.

Characters are sort of cut-outs, not getting a good sense of any of them right away, and the only other thing that really stands out is that there's not a lot here, but I attribute that to the web novel format more than anything and people wanting to keep it short.

Can i have Feedback please?
This one just makes the cut. Would keep reading.

Dark fantasy epic. You got lots of weighty description. Pretty cool setting. A lot going on in the first chapter. You have a pretty good sense of excitement and fun with what you include. I'm not really sure where it's going to go, maybe a cold open, maybe it continues, but either way that's fine.

And really what makes this more of a tepid yes is the writing style. You have a very detached way of writing that really removes the reader from the story. Even when you're not throwing in extra phrases and detractors, there's a sort of passivity to it that's odd.
 
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Would not keep reading.

Generally speaking, the writing is super clunky. And the choice to have this one on one, personal tone/convo with the audience doesn't quite work for me either. I think conceptually, it could, but in practice you need to be really clever when presenting a story that way. What you have doesn't feel well thought out (one of the first things he says is he doesn't feel like sharing because he has trust issues, and then that's just thrown away, so you don't have continuity between sentences), and it really just feels like a flimsy excuse to have exposition.

I guess its a more interesting way to have exposition than normal, but like, maybe just tell a story and don't start by explaining everything.
So what do you mean is to get the story opened right at the starter instead of just tell a roundabout in it?
Btw, harsh comments, but just thank you for your advice.
 

TheTrinary

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This is my second time going, hope it somehow got better.

So I moved what happened in the old prologue to chapter 1, and the new one I gave some rough ideas about what’s going on. But I think my explanations are quite hard to understand, what’s your opinion?

I don't remember the original, but let's just go through the writing here in detail:


It was especially cold and dark this time of day on the mountain, but there was still a bit of light from the stars, so a shadow can be seen moving in the snow if paid enough attention.

Distractingly passive voice and the "if paid enough attention" is clunky.

The figure was moving
towards the top of the mountain, and it looked like that of a man. Although people often went there for sightseeing, it was strange that he chose to go in the night.

You never establish a figure. So "A figure". The refers to something specific we already know. Was moving is passive. Try: "A figure climbed towards the top of the mountain." Don't tell us what it "looked like," just describe it. If you're being clever and trying to imply it might not be human be more overt. Try: "Under the folds of clothes, what existed there looked human." The scene is set on the mountain. Our POV is with the man. So here not there. And then you JUST established it was day in the last paragraph.

Around ten minutes later, he came across a small cabin on the way and went inside.

You just established the scene. Why have a time cut. Why not start with him climbing towards the cabin?

It looked like a typical cabin that climbers could use to take a rest before they continue. The inside was old and dusty like nobody visited the place for centuries. Well, that was true, because a company decided to build an elevator all the way to the peak of this mount, people started to use that lift instead of walking the rough and dangerous paths.

Stop saying something "looks" a way. That's a filler word. Just say, "The cabin was the run of the mill type of cabin used for wary travelers. It had. . ." Just describe stuff without reminding us we're looking in from the outside. And then the highlighted mount and comma, that's two independent clauses. Use a period or a semi colon.

As a result, all the stopping points, refilling stations, and such were abandoned and fell apart one by one. However, this single wood house was the only thing that stood through the years, and the reason being.

What is that ending? You just stopped writing in the middle of a sentence.

The man opened a secret door on the wall, it led to a tiny room with a metal trapdoor, looked with a password pad. He tried to enter the code a few times, but the thing appeared to be broken.

In the wall. Two independent clauses. Use a period or something else. locked? You're an omniscient narrator. Dont' tell us what something appears to be. Tell us what it is. Or better yet, show us. "The number pad let out a whine and a hiss, broken beyond repair."

Giving it up, he just raised his leg and landed on the door, resulting in a loud bang as it fell and crashed on the floor below.

Word choice. x2. Confusing. I think you just mean that the door fell over, but "below" makes it seem like it feel down some stairs or something.

He came to an underground chamber. There was no light down there, so he used <Illuminate>. Some stuff was left covered in dust on the table, a few pieces of paper, a pen, an electric lamp, and a stove. He took the paper and leaned against the wall.

Door to underground chamber? Feels like we need a transition.

It was some kind of a letter, written in English.

Vague.
 

ohhdearme

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Would keep reading.

I really liked that. Cool setting. Nice world building. Solid prose.

Characters aren't sort of cut-outs, and the only other thing that really stands out is that there's not a lot here, but I attribute that to the web novel format more than anything and people wanting to keep it short.

This one just makes the cut. Would keep reading.

Dark fantasy epic. You got lots of weighty description. Pretty cool setting. A lot going on in the first chapter. You have a pretty good sense of excitement and fun with what you include. I'm not really sure where it's going to go, maybe a cold open, maybe it continues, but either way that's fine.

And really what makes this more of a tepid yes is the writing style. You have a very detached way of writing that really removes the reader from the story. Even when you're not throwing in extra phrases and detractors, there's a sort of passivity to it that's odd.
Thanks! Really appreciate the feedback. Yeah I was keeping it short for the format, so not a lot there yet.
 

TheTrinary

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So what do you mean is to get the story opened right at the starter instead of just tell a roundabout in it?
Btw, harsh comments, but just thank you for your advice.
Kinda.

I think the narrative voice intro or exposition COULD work. I think switching from the narrative writing to that MC's voice is a waste of time. It's janky switching POV's after two paragraphs when both POV's are doing the same thing and fulfilling the same role. What do we get out of having two separate voices talking to the reader?

Why not just use the space to have your MC talk to us if that's what he's going to do anyway. There's nothing that narrative voice explains that he couldn't explain.
Thanks! Really appreciate the feedback. Yeah I was keeping it short for the format, so not a lot there yet.
I went back and edited one of my sentences that was a mistake. You were too fast. I normally do that at the end of the session.

But yeah, I really like your premise in particular even though I have a bias against it. I've seen it done twice before terribly, and for what it's worth, you handled it better in a couple of paragraphs than a Hollywood movie I was tricked into watching.
 

Nhatduongg

Yuyuko Saigyouji, The Dreaming Ghost
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I don't remember the original, but let's just go through the writing here in detail:


It was especially cold and dark this time of day on the mountain, but there was still a bit of light from the stars, so a shadow can be seen moving in the snow if paid enough attention.

Distractingly passive voice and the "if paid enough attention" is clunky.

The figure was moving towards the top of the mountain, and it looked like that of a man. Although people often went there for sightseeing, it was strange that he chose to go in the night.

You never establish a figure. So "A figure". The refers to something specific we already know. Was moving is passive. Try: "A figure climbed towards the top of the mountain." Don't tell us what it "looked like," just describe it. If you're being clever and trying to imply it might not be human be more overt. Try: "Under the folds of clothes, what existed there looked human." The scene is set on the mountain. Our POV is with the man. So here not there. And then you JUST established it was day in the last paragraph.

Around ten minutes later, he came across a small cabin on the way and went inside.

You just established the scene. Why have a time cut. Why not start with him climbing towards the cabin?

It looked like a typical cabin that climbers could use to take a rest before they continue. The inside was old and dusty like nobody visited the place for centuries. Well, that was true, because a company decided to build an elevator all the way to the peak of this mount, people started to use that lift instead of walking the rough and dangerous paths.

Stop saying something "looks" a way. That's a filler word. Just say, "The cabin was the run of the mill type of cabin used for wary travelers. It had. . ." Just describe stuff without reminding us we're looking in from the outside. And then the highlighted mount and comma, that's two independent clauses. Use a period or a semi colon.

As a result, all the stopping points, refilling stations, and such were abandoned and fell apart one by one. However, this single wood house was the only thing that stood through the years, and the reason being.

What is that ending? You just stopped writing in the middle of a sentence.

The man opened a secret door on the wall, it led to a tiny room with a metal trapdoor, looked with a password pad. He tried to enter the code a few times, but the thing appeared to be broken.

In the wall. Two independent clauses. Use a period or something else. locked? You're an omniscient narrator. Dont' tell us what something appears to be. Tell us what it is. Or better yet, show us. "The number pad let out a whine and a hiss, broken beyond repair."

Giving it up, he just raised his leg and landed on the door, resulting in a loud bang as it fell and crashed on the floor below.

Word choice. x2. Confusing. I think you just mean that the door fell over, but "below" makes it seem like it feel down some stairs or something.

He came to an underground chamber. There was no light down there, so he used <Illuminate>. Some stuff was left covered in dust on the table, a few pieces of paper, a pen, an electric lamp, and a stove. He took the paper and leaned against the wall.

Door to underground chamber? Feels like we need a transition.

It was some kind of a letter, written in English.

Vague.
Huh? Maybe the grammar in that chapter is bad because it’s my first time writing like that. But what about the rest? (Like the content or something?)
 

TheTrinary

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Huh? Maybe the grammar in that chapter is bad because it’s my first time writing like that. But what about the rest? (Like the content or something?)
Oh, I didn't read past the parts I included.

Everything else isn't formatted and its just one block of text. When the writing is a deal breaker out of the gate, I'm not going to put in extra effort to figure out the rest. Because, honestly, it the rest doesn't really matter. You could have the best story ever, but if you can't present it in a readable way, doesn't matter.
 

ohhdearme

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I went back and edited one of my sentences that was a mistake. You were too fast. I normally do that at the end of the session.

But yeah, I really like your premise in particular even though I have a bias against it. I've seen it done twice before terribly, and for what it's worth, you handled it better in a couple of paragraphs than a Hollywood movie I was tricked into watching.
Ah oops.

Well that's encouraging. Will look at what I can add to the characters to flesh them out a bit earlier. Cheers!
 
D

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Kinda.

I think the narrative voice intro or exposition COULD work. I think switching from the narrative writing to that MC's voice is a waste of time. It's janky switching POV's after two paragraphs when both POV's are doing the same thing and fulfilling the same role. What do we get out of having two separate voices talking to the reader?

Why not just use the space to have your MC talk to us if that's what he's going to do anyway. There's nothing that narrative voice explains that he couldn't explain.
Yea, I think I have messed up with the POV. Btw, about the personal tone, my story is mainly aimed at the humourous side, so it won't be too formal in general. Don't just misunderstand that, please.
 
D

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And what about YOUR novels? Are there any role models or good examples for me to follow?
 

BenJepheneT

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And what about YOUR novels? Are there any role models or good examples for me to follow?
if you're on your phone, it isn't available, but if you're on desktop, you can see OP's written work in his signature below his posts.
 

Nhatduongg

Yuyuko Saigyouji, The Dreaming Ghost
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I don't remember the original, but let's just go through the writing here in detail:


It was especially cold and dark this time of day on the mountain, but there was still a bit of light from the stars, so a shadow can be seen moving in the snow if paid enough attention.

Distractingly passive voice and the "if paid enough attention" is clunky.

The figure was moving towards the top of the mountain, and it looked like that of a man. Although people often went there for sightseeing, it was strange that he chose to go in the night.

You never establish a figure. So "A figure". The refers to something specific we already know. Was moving is passive. Try: "A figure climbed towards the top of the mountain." Don't tell us what it "looked like," just describe it. If you're being clever and trying to imply it might not be human be more overt. Try: "Under the folds of clothes, what existed there looked human." The scene is set on the mountain. Our POV is with the man. So here not there. And then you JUST established it was day in the last paragraph.

Around ten minutes later, he came across a small cabin on the way and went inside.

You just established the scene. Why have a time cut. Why not start with him climbing towards the cabin?

It looked like a typical cabin that climbers could use to take a rest before they continue. The inside was old and dusty like nobody visited the place for centuries. Well, that was true, because a company decided to build an elevator all the way to the peak of this mount, people started to use that lift instead of walking the rough and dangerous paths.

Stop saying something "looks" a way. That's a filler word. Just say, "The cabin was the run of the mill type of cabin used for wary travelers. It had. . ." Just describe stuff without reminding us we're looking in from the outside. And then the highlighted mount and comma, that's two independent clauses. Use a period or a semi colon.

As a result, all the stopping points, refilling stations, and such were abandoned and fell apart one by one. However, this single wood house was the only thing that stood through the years, and the reason being.

What is that ending? You just stopped writing in the middle of a sentence.

The man opened a secret door on the wall, it led to a tiny room with a metal trapdoor, looked with a password pad. He tried to enter the code a few times, but the thing appeared to be broken.

In the wall. Two independent clauses. Use a period or something else. locked? You're an omniscient narrator. Dont' tell us what something appears to be. Tell us what it is. Or better yet, show us. "The number pad let out a whine and a hiss, broken beyond repair."

Giving it up, he just raised his leg and landed on the door, resulting in a loud bang as it fell and crashed on the floor below.

Word choice. x2. Confusing. I think you just mean that the door fell over, but "below" makes it seem like it feel down some stairs or something.

He came to an underground chamber. There was no light down there, so he used <Illuminate>. Some stuff was left covered in dust on the table, a few pieces of paper, a pen, an electric lamp, and a stove. He took the paper and leaned against the wall.

Door to underground chamber? Feels like we need a transition.

It was some kind of a letter, written in English.

Vague.
Oh, I didn't read past the parts I included.

Everything else isn't formatted and its just one block of text. When the writing is a deal breaker out of the gate, I'm not going to put in extra effort to figure out the rest. Because, honestly, it the rest doesn't really matter. You could have the best story ever, but if you can't present it in a readable way, doesn't matter.
I’m pretty confident in my grammar now, can you check it again?

 
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