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TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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well, I'm in a good mood since I've edited my first chapters a few days ago. I could need some feedback.
First chapter.
Would keep reading.

This was quite good. Interesting off the bat and you shifted your focus where you needed to. Good pace and drive. My only real critique for a work at the web novel level is just some of the writing here and there. Extra words, extra sentences. It could use a slight paring down, but overall very good job.
I would love some feedback If anybody wants to take a gander. Good or bad please let me know what you think!
Would not keep reading.

Right away, I'm seeing a lot of tense issues swapping between past and present. And then the first section is just the MC rattling off exposition. Pick one and stick with it. And it's not that you can exposit in the set up or whoever, but that exposition has to be entertaining and matter more than the base information it's conveying.

"We lived in Corinth" is a sentence completely devoid of meaning. It tell us the name of where he lives. . . but who cares. Good exposition transitions takes that base information and transforms it into something more important (story, commentary, humor, whatever it is you're going for).

Let me give you an example of that same paragraph. It may or may not jive with your world building, but that is hardly the point:

Until the death of my parents, we lived a normal life in Corinthin. It was a small city whose only appeal was to farmers and criminals hiding from local law enforcement. The only way out for the first group was to join a guild, and guilds didn't recruit from no-name hick towns.

Sentence 1: Establish the information. Exact same.
Sentence two: Characterize the city and create a bridge that will lead us to the point. Both are the same thing.
Sentence three: The point. the MC is stuck and unable to leave his small-town life. By describing the town we now know the MC better. It's a little writing tip. They say always do two things at once. (Plot, world building, character writing, etc.)

It's not exactly high art, but it's quick and to the point and it, uh, has a point. If we look at your comparable paragraph. . . you spend a long time establishing that he's a normal dude doing normal things. But like. That's what the reader assumes right? We understand children go to school, so why are you telling us this. What information are you conveying that adds to our conception of school?

And I guess that's the problem in general. You engage in these descriptions without even knowing the point of WHY you are doing it. Case in point: "Even though the guilds are a relic of the past. . . ," You then proceed to tell us why guilds are extremely important and people can't live without them.

Other times there's just redundant information. It very much feels like a rough draft that someone wrote very very fast.
Technically my rating system of "would keep reading or not" is a bit of a sham in this case because I immediately read the second chapter. So I'm just going to describe my experience.

It's engaging. It's even entertaining. But not in the way that writers want their works to be. I read on because I needed context. . . and understanding. I'm still a little confused here.

You start off pretty hard. You have some lavish prose that rides that line on purple. That's fine. Where we hit the first bump was the follow up tone and voice of the characters. They are flippant and immature and it seems you are going for overtly comedic off the back of some wordy Tolkien-esque writing. I shouldn't have to say it, but these two things don't go together.

Actually, that was my second question. My first confusion was why he had to summon. . . a clone? to help when he could blow up entire swaths of the castle with a swing of his sword. The logic was immediately wobbly.

Once we get to the second chapter, I'm more clueless. I was thinking portal fantasy, but was that all just a dream sequence? I guess it must be. If you take out most of the first chapter, everything else pretty much tracks. But then judging it on that, it's not super entertaining. A lot of the character stuff is grating and the dialogue is at it's worst when you think you're being clever because oh boy is it not. Like that bit about Scrappy Doo was so bad. You clearly had a punch line in your mind and didn't know how to get to it, but oh boy did you take the wrong path there. There's a logic to conversation and people think a certain way. Scrappy is a real word and has a meaning. Everyone universally understanding it to mean the cartoon character when the real definition fits better is just. . . what.

And then. And then oh boy. The rest of the prose doesn't match the starting purple. So. . . what is the intent? I don't know. I can't give you the gold medal, but this is one of the more confused starts to a story I've seen.
 
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Squirrel

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Would not keep reading.

It's rough and has a ton of mistakes, but that didn't affect my enjoyment reading it. It's actually pretty readable. It's just something you should look into.

My problem just how disconnected this is. We don't have POV and we don't really have a narrative. It's all exposition. Literally the only thing we establish this entire chapter is that some soldiers are looking for a girl. There's obviously some finesse to it, but you could convey that information in a story-telling way as well. Something interesting to a person we establish could be happening and it gets interrupted by the plot. I need something to personally connect me to anything.

As is, it's like a boring prologue more than a first chapter.

Would not keep reading.

The communication of information is. . . problematic.

A brown tainted river with many strewn equipment lazily guided foragers. Her furrowed expression lightened as she turned the corner, a familiar face.
Explain. This is a typo right? "Her" is modifying "river", which I thought was poetic, but then. . . . Grabbing her shoulder and shoving her through the door, Raizon proceeded shortly after. Nope. Clearly you meant to be talking about a human.

It was risky for Anastasia to purchase snacks just moments after escaping from her pursuers, but she knew how much her little sister loved them. Huh. You were just talking about dumpster divers and crap; at no point did you establish a chase scene. Your character is describing something that JUST HAPPENED during the time you were describing other things.

Chases are exciting. Why would you not want to describe that? And if you want to be reserved, start your story with some guards or whoever looking around for something/ someone. We see the setting through their eyes, and then boom. We snap to our POV and we realize they are looking for her.
Thanks for the feedback. I had made some cleaning and adding afterwards.
 

FeetforThoughts

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Technically my rating system of "would keep reading or not" is a bit of a sham in this case because I immediately read the second chapter. So I'm just going to describe my experience.

It's engaging. It's even entertaining. But not in the way that writers want their works to be. I read on because I needed context. . . and understanding. I'm still a little confused here.

You start off pretty hard. You have some lavish prose that rides that line on purple. That's fine. Where we hit the first bump was the follow up tone and voice of the characters. They are flippant and immature and it seems you are going for overtly comedic off the back of some wordy Tolkien-esque writing. I shouldn't have to say it, but these two things don't go together.

Actually, that was my second question. My first confusion was why he had to summon. . . a clone? to help when he could blow up entire swaths of the castle with a swing of his sword. The logic was immediately wobbly.

Once we get to the second chapter, I'm more clueless. I was thinking portal fantasy, but was that all just a dream sequence? I guess it must be. If you take out most of the first chapter, everything else pretty much tracks. But then judging it on that, it's not super entertaining. A lot of the character stuff is grating and the dialogue is at it's worst when you think you're being clever because oh boy is it not. Like that bit about Scrappy Doo was so bad. You clearly had a punch line in your mind and didn't know how to get to it, but oh boy did you take the wrong path there. There's a logic to conversation and people think a certain way. Scrappy is a real word and has a meaning. Everyone universally understanding it to mean the cartoon character when the real definition fits better is just. . . what.

And then. And then oh boy. The rest of the prose doesn't match the starting purple. So. . . what is the intent? I don't know. I can't give you the gold medal, but this is one of the more confused starts to a story I've seen.
To be fair, my intent was to create a sense of mystery that kept the reader reading to find out more. So mission partially accomplished? lol

I'm toying with restructuring the first chapter to have that initial portion as a prologue, but again the change in tone is intentional. The first section is set in another world and a lot of the description is sowing seeds for things that will pay off later, so it was important for me to lay that ground work.

In like manner, in the next section we're dealing with teens at school in our world, so the tone shifts to accommodate that.

That's a fair point about the clone and the sword. I did throw in the line about the element of surprise being gone, but he does use the sword after that so that's something I'll definitely look into.

Was it all a dream sequence? No. Again, the opening was laying the groundwork for what follows and unfolds in the next few chapters. It is a portal fantasy but the MC doesn't get there until the third chapter.

You're absolutely right about the Scrappy Doo line, and also right that I had something in mind and couldn't get to it. It grates me every time I read it lol.

Again, the intent is to keep reading. The contrast is intentional and it's intended to leave a bit of head scratching.

Thanks for the feedback though! Will take this all onboard.
 

TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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To be fair, my intent was to create a sense of mystery that kept the reader reading to find out more. So mission partially accomplished? lol

I'm toying with restructuring the first chapter to have that initial portion as a prologue, but again the change in tone is intentional. The first section is set in another world and a lot of the description is sowing seeds for things that will pay off later, so it was important for me to lay that ground work.

In like manner, in the next section we're dealing with teens at school in our world, so the tone shifts to accommodate that.

That's a fair point about the clone and the sword. I did throw in the line about the element of surprise being gone, but he does use the sword after that so that's something I'll definitely look into.

Was it all a dream sequence? No. Again, the opening was laying the groundwork for what follows and unfolds in the next few chapters. It is a portal fantasy but the MC doesn't get there until the third chapter.

You're absolutely right about the Scrappy Doo line, and also right that I had something in mind and couldn't get to it. It grates me every time I read it lol.

Again, the intent is to keep reading. The contrast is intentional and it's intended to leave a bit of head scratching.

Thanks for the feedback though! Will take this all onboard.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for branching out and trying new and interesting things. The tonal shift could work. A lot of the things you're doing could work, but when it doesn't work, it falls on me to describe why it doesn't work and the easiest way to do that is to compare it back to standard structure, or construction, or whathaveyou.

I think the conversation of "how do I make these things work" is the intersting one, and the thing I'm always looking for when people read what I write, because I like to do new and interesting things. It's never happened for me, but that's the dream.

So let's see. . . I don't mind the idea of a prologue or what not. But I don't think that's the issue. I think what you need is connective tissue. We need some assurances that the two disparate ideas are connected. On the switch, you have the title come up with "And on Earth." or "Someplace else." Ideally, that connective tissue would be inside the story telling, but that's asking a lot.

For example, one of the things that confused me was the tone. The clone has this weird comedic tone that doesn't mesh with the rest of the prose (e.g. doesn't belong.) So when we switch to the Earth, I'm thinking it's the kid dreaming about. . . being the night's clone? There's connective tissue but it doesn't follow any sort of logic. If we had a clear indication it was a seperate event– even if we didn't understand it– it would be helpful. You gotta remember your reader knows nothing going in.

Okay, and then the prose. I think the idea was close to working here, and King does this a bit having the prose mirror the POV with wording and such even if the overall style is the same. It wasn't confusing but I couldn't call it successful either. Outside of the bleed over with the clone's vernacular, I think you need to be cognizant of the fact that when the styles are so starkly different the reader will be actively evaluating it. I was asking "why?" Why is the author making this choice and what does it add?

They're different because they are different worlds? That's all I can think of. It's a little too on the nose to be clever. A little, college art student-y. If you pared it down, it could work, so long as the fantasy prose sounded natural and not hyperbolic. It would need to be subtle enough that the reader isn't immediately drawn to it. Maybe we have a little gut feeling that something is different and we have to think about it to figure it out.
 

FeetforThoughts

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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for branching out and trying new and interesting things. The tonal shift could work. A lot of the things you're doing could work, but when it doesn't work, it falls on me to describe why it doesn't work and the easiest way to do that is to compare it back to standard structure, or construction, or whathaveyou.

I think the conversation of "how do I make these things work" is the intersting one, and the thing I'm always looking for when people read what I write, because I like to do new and interesting things. It's never happened for me, but that's the dream.

So let's see. . . I don't mind the idea of a prologue or what not. But I don't think that's the issue. I think what you need is connective tissue. We need some assurances that the two disparate ideas are connected. On the switch, you have the title come up with "And on Earth." or "Someplace else." Ideally, that connective tissue would be inside the story telling, but that's asking a lot.

For example, one of the things that confused me was the tone. The clone has this weird comedic tone that doesn't mesh with the rest of the prose (e.g. doesn't belong.) So when we switch to the Earth, I'm thinking it's the kid dreaming about. . . being the night's clone? There's connective tissue but it doesn't follow any sort of logic. If we had a clear indication it was a seperate event– even if we didn't understand it– it would be helpful. You gotta remember your reader knows nothing going in.

Okay, and then the prose. I think the idea was close to working here, and King does this a bit having the prose mirror the POV with wording and such even if the overall style is the same. It wasn't confusing but I couldn't call it successful either. Outside of the bleed over with the clone's vernacular, I think you need to be cognizant of the fact that when the styles are so starkly different the reader will be actively evaluating it. I was asking "why?" Why is the author making this choice and what does it add?

They're different because they are different worlds? That's all I can think of. It's a little too on the nose to be clever. A little, college art student-y. If you pared it down, it could work, so long as the fantasy prose sounded natural and not hyperbolic. It would need to be subtle enough that the reader isn't immediately drawn to it. Maybe we have a little gut feeling that something is different and we have to think about it to figure it out.
Ultimately that's why I'm here! To get feedback and improve my story. So yeah, this is helpful. Basically, the prose needs to be a bit less poetic so as to not give the reader too much whiplash when the tone shifts.

The problem I foresee is that everything in that opening sequence has ties to the MC, so I'm conscious of drawing too much connective tissue without revealing everything straight away. Maybe place names at the beginning of each section would help, but that isn't something I'd want to do for the rest of the novel.

Thanks again for the input!
 

TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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I've revised the first chapter. Would be interesting to hear how it reads now!
Definitely better. There wasn't anything super jarring and everything that made me perk up my ears before thinking something wrong is gone. I'll go ahead and upgrade this to a "would keep reading."

My only criticism is the copy knight. Still. . . He's almost like a Jar jar binks, this character that is just a monotone gag. Comedy comes from being surprising. From a contrast to what you expect. Your set up is. . . a buffoon does buffoon things and reacts like a buffoon. There's no surprise or punchline. A.k.a. Jar jar Binks.

You almost need that moment when he's first summoned where he's immediately attacked and does something awesome. And then her turns and starts saying gov'na. (Very Marvel I know, but I'm saying only do it once.) So the joke is this super dangerous, very lethal. . . magical construct(?) is a buffoon. There's your dynamics that creates a contrast.

Let's look at another instance. He screws up and then complains that he needs food. What is the joke? From my perspective I don't even know what he is. Does he actually need food and is being starved? I don't fully understand him so I can't understand if this even is a joke, although it seems to be.

My take for that joke. Maybe he literally stops to eat food laying around and that's why he gets into trouble. You expect the magical murder knight to do his job, but he's just flighty. And then you can even have a back and forth where he insists he likes food even if he doesn't need it. Because hey, he doesn't get to eat anything when he doesn't exist.

So in my mind, he's not just a buffoon. He's more like a defective robot. He can do his job well, but sometimes he just gets distracted

And I know it seems trite analyzing comedy in such finite terms, but it works. You can take almost any joke that works and see that it actually works on those terms. Take the biggest buffoon of all: Mr. Bean. If you've ever watched the show, he just does normal every day things. So despite the fact that he is a raging moron, the set up is: it's so easy literally Mr. Bean could do it. But then the humor is seeing him somehow screw it up.

But I digress..
Would keep reading.

In my over a year of doing this, this is only the second story I've seen that emulates a Pratchett/ Discworld style (at least noticeably). It's pretty even and you have the tone down even if I can't award you the prestigious honor of anything being quite as clever as Pratchett. Not much else to say, it's a solid web novel attempt at this style of story.
Would not keep reading.

This was close. The description of them being born was a nice surprise, and everything else was pretty much expected. When you've read as many of these as I have, you're looking for anything to set it apart and I didn't really see that here. Perfectly find though albeit with one big structural complaint in that I have no sense of who this character is.
 
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FeetforThoughts

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Definitely better. There wasn't anything super jarring and everything that made me perk up my ears before thinking something wrong is gone. I'll go ahead and upgrade this to a "would keep reading."

My only criticism is the copy knight. Still. . . He's almost like a Jar jar binks, this character that is just a monotone gag. Comedy comes from being surprising. From a contrast to what you expect. Your set up is. . . a buffoon does buffoon things and reacts like a buffoon. There's no surprise or punchline. A.k.a. Jar jar Binks.

You almost need that moment when he's first summoned where he's immediately attacked and does something awesome. And then her turns and starts saying gov'na. (Very Marvel I know, but I'm saying only do it once.) So the joke is this super dangerous, very lethal. . . magical construct(?) is a buffoon. There's your dynamics that creates a contrast.

Let's look at another instance. He screws up and then complains that he needs food. What is the joke? From my perspective I don't even know what he is. Does he actually need food and is being starved? I don't fully understand him so I can't understand if this even is a joke, although it seems to be.

My take for that joke. Maybe he literally stops to eat food laying around and that's why he gets into trouble. You expect the magical murder knight to do his job, but he's just flighty. And then you can even have a back and forth where he insists he likes food even if he doesn't need it. Because hey, he doesn't get to eat anything when he doesn't exist.

So in my mind, he's not just a buffoon. He's more like a defective robot. He can do his job well, but sometimes he just gets distracted

And I know it seems trite analyzing comedy in such finite terms, but it works. You can take almost any joke that works and see that it actually works on those terms. Take the biggest buffoon of all: Mr. Bean. If you've ever watched the show, he just does normal every day things. So despite the fact that he is a raging moron, the set up is: it's so easy literally Mr. Bean could do it. But then the humor is seeing him somehow screw it up.
Huzzah!

So, onto the Copy Knight. Again, it's a matter of setup that gets explained later in the story. The intention was less "he's a buffoon" and more he's a sarcastic, reluctant participant. If he's coming across Jar-Jar then it might require a rewrite although it's the first time I've heard it put like that. His screwup is more so about negligence and not taking what's going on seriously enough because he basically has his own agenda. The Copy Knight is the physical manifestation of the Knight's inner human instincts and bodily inclinations. So, it's like when you need to focus on something you're working on that requires precision (let's just say, for example, a surgeon) and you're distracted by the fact that your stomach is rumbling. If the Knight represents the mind, the Copy Knight represents the body and how dysfunction between the two can cause problems.

But maybe I need to use something other than hunger as it was laying a thread I haven't exactly picked up yet later.

Thanks again for the feedback.
 

Alfir

The Inventor of Words
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Hello, I would love to hear your feedback on my story. I am a noob with sufficient grammar knowledge who wants to see where I stand.
PS. Chapter 19 is a game-changer, at least in my opinion. Maybe after you check my Ch 1, you can check my chapter 19?
 

TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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To be fair, my intent was to create a sense of mystery that kept the reader reading to find out more. So mission partially accomplished? lol

I'm toying with restructuring the first chapter to have that initial portion as a prologue, but again the change in tone is intentional. The first section is set in another world and a lot of the description is sowing seeds for things that will pay off later, so it was important for me to lay that ground work.

In like manner, in the next section we're dealing with teens at school in our world, so the tone shifts to accommodate that.

That's a fair point about the clone and the sword. I did throw in the line about the element of surprise being gone, but he does use the sword after that so that's something I'll definitely look into.

Was it all a dream sequence? No. Again, the opening was laying the groundwork for what follows and unfolds in the next few chapters. It is a portal fantasy but the MC doesn't get there until the third chapter.

You're absolutely right about the Scrappy Doo line, and also right that I had something in mind and couldn't get to it. It grates me every time I read it lol.

Again, the intent is to keep reading. The contrast is intentional and it's intended to leave a bit of head scratching.

Thanks for the feedback though! Will take this all onboard.
I guess where I'm coming from is: him saying gov'na all the time seems like a pretty naked attempt at comedy. If I'm not supposed to take that as funny, then something is getting lost.
Hello, I would love to hear your feedback on my story. I am a noob with sufficient grammar knowledge who wants to see where I stand.
PS. Chapter 19 is a game-changer, at least in my opinion. Maybe after you check my Ch 1, you can check my chapter 19?
I have absolutely read this before.
I'd say work on your fundamentals. The first paragraph has four big mistakes, two of which are extremely glaring. To the point where. . . I've seen authors who have tense issues and flop back and forth, but you're the first person that has swapped their tenses mid sentence.
 

TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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Hi! Can you please tell me your thoughts on my new story? https://www.scribblehub.com/series/446164/i-death-will-save-this-world/
Would not keep reading.

This one was right down the middle in enjoyment and I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other. It's a loose structure to have people sit around a fire and talk. And the conversations were neither interesting or disinteresting. I found the initial idea that it's a survival situation interesting, where you have to character who are ostensibly freezing to death, but that almost feels abandoned.

It's almost like how we get to the end at there's this grand introduction of the idea that this is an Earth that's been invaded by monsters. You really need two things inside the chapter to punch that up: 1) Breadcrumbs and slow introduction leading us to the creatures and 2) a reveal in story telling form.

1) When you just have people say: Yeah there are monsters then, it feels like generic fantasy smutz. The reality of the situation doesn't register because there is no build up or tension. Two children freezing in a cave is (oddly enough) a normal and relatable thing, and then on top of that you add in little hints in what people say or do that makes you realize something else is going on and it's wrong.

2) And then you end with a monster howling or something. Not just a character turning to the camera and delivering exposition.

The one thing I found strange was the surprise by MC that her hands were cold when you establish later that she not only knows that but has had to make excuses in the past. The idea is interesting but you never want contradictory details that are noticible.
 

killwrites

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1) When you just have people say: Yeah there are monsters then, it feels like generic fantasy smutz. The reality of the situation doesn't register because there is no build up or tension. Two children freezing in a cave is (oddly enough) a normal and relatable thing, and then on top of that you add in little hints in what people say or do that makes you realize something else is going on and it's wrong.

2) And then you end with a monster howling or something. Not just a character turning to the camera and delivering exposition.
Ah I get what you mean, but I was actually aiming for there to be a disconnect between the characters' actions and the situation they're actually in since they're still teenagers (and with a 10 yo girl around, I don't think the rest want to touch on their dire circumstances directly). I deliberately used 'monster' to describe the creatures so as to lighten the mood too. Perhaps this is a bit of an unorthodox approach to introducing the world the story's set in, though

The one thing I found strange was the surprise by MC that her hands were cold when you establish later that she not only knows that but has had to make excuses in the past. The idea is interesting but you never want contradictory details that are noticible.
I meant it as the MC was surprised that Lila pointed out the fact that her hands were cold when the others all seem to just accept it, so she instinctively checked her body temperature (like if someone pointed out you did something wrong even if you're certain you did it right, you would still check it a second time to make sure i guess)

Thanks for the feedback :blob_cookie:
 

TheTrinary

Hi, I'm Stephen
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Ah I get what you mean, but I was actually aiming for there to be a disconnect between the characters' actions and the situation they're actually in since they're still teenagers (and with a 10 yo girl around, I don't think the rest want to touch on their dire circumstances directly). I deliberately used 'monster' to describe the creatures so as to lighten the mood too. Perhaps this is a bit of an unorthodox approach to introducing the world the story's set in, though


I meant it as the MC was surprised that Lila pointed out the fact that her hands were cold when the others all seem to just accept it, so she instinctively checked her body temperature (like if someone pointed out you did something wrong even if you're certain you did it right, you would still check it a second time to make sure i guess)

Thanks for the feedback :blob_cookie:
I didn't mean it so much in terms of the characters but in terms of introducing the audience to your world.
 

Enchant

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UPDATE: Be sure to check out my other thread and my Youtube channel: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/looking-for-things-to-review.6228/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUJHTBWLa93g8k9SAXCgSzw

So I saw this done elsewhere and thought it would be fun.


If anyone wants to volunteer, I'll read your very first chapter (not prologue or anything else) and based solely on that I'll give a quick opinion on whether or not I'd continue reading the entire work. It's like a mini review for the first chapter and the ability to hook the audience!

I can make no guarantees with how contemporaneous it will be, but I'll try and stay up with this thread the best I can.

And if it seems I missed you on the review, just send me a message. There's a lot of stuff and it's entirely possible I could accidently skip someone.


Since this thread has become pretty prolific, I figured I'd make a best of the best list. My personal favorite three starting chapters are:

1. Caninstinct https://www.scribblehub.com/series/62445/caninstinct/
2. Ange'ls Dirge https://www.scribblehub.com/series/229892/angels-dirge/
3. Queensmen https://www.scribblehub.com/series/163971/queensmen/
4. Hive https://www.scribblehub.com/series/334266/hive/
I might as well try this here try reading mine. https://www.scribblehub.com/series/...protect-what-i-was-unable-to-do-as-a-brother/
 
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