Friendship - How close is too close?

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Dec 22, 2020
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Hey Everyone,

So I have this inner conflict with the relationship between the protagonist and his friend (that is supposed to be his best friend).

Somehow, they are childhood friends. However, as I got to develop the story further I have realized that they are too close. Which can be also translated into subtle love. But I have no intention of making a love story or turning things romantic.

So my question is: is it acceptable to live and die for someone without having a romantic relationship with them? Especially for same gender?
 
Last edited:

Cossimeri

Purveyor of Yuri Adventures
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Yes. It’s called “Platonic Love” and it just means you love someone, but not in a romantic way. This friend has been elevated to the highest point within the inner circle of the protagonist’s life. It’s natural to become possessive and really want the best for someone when they’ve attained this position.

Seriously confuses me when guys act like they can’t hug each other, or cuddle. Like when you are depressed, it can really help to have someone wrap their arm around you and hold you close. That person doesn’t need to be a romantic partner, just someone you trust won’t harm you.

Anyways, you may get the occasional “classic masculinity advocate” who calls you out in your chapter comments for their behavior, but don’t let them sully what your characters have. Let them be ride or die for each other. Honestly I think having such a complex friendship makes your story sound quite appealing.
 

hauntedwritings

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"Family doesn't end in blood. Just because you're blood, it doesn't make you family."

Friendship, especially deep friendships, are a form of love in themselves. As your characters are meant to be close, then you can ask yourself if their interactions would be considered fine between two siblings. As siblings can have a tendancy to invade your personal space and similar things, it can be considered alright.

It merely needs to be clear that neither has a romantic interest for the other. If one of the characters 'crosses the line' in your mind, then the other character can behave as if they are upset/angry about it, but without it affecting their friendship.

Some lines should not be crossed at all however. God forbid you make them hold hands.
 

CheertheDead

Fudanshi of Yaoi-sama
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I don't know if you read Berserk or Banana Fish.

But the relationship of the 2 protags in both series (namely Griffith and Guts for Berserk, and Ash and Eiji for Banana Fish) is literally friendship. Some will argue that the case of Ash and Eiji to be 'love' but i greatly disagree with them. I have been a Fudanshi for more than 12 years and i have had my deal in BL in the classic Japanese manga. I have to say Ash and Eiji are nothing more than Friends.

Now back to the main point.

The relationship of both Griffith and Guts, and Ash and Eiji are friendship but the intensity of their relationship is extreme.

Ash and Eiji will live and die for each other.

The same can be said for Guts and Griffith. When Guts left Griffith, it literally wrecked him. He was jealous of Guts and Caska that he raped Caska in front of Guts just to spite Guts.

Back to your question. Yes friendship can be so intense that it is impossible to tell apart from love. Yes friendship can lead you to feel jealous of someone else's relationship with your best friend.

I also want to clarify one more thing. You can make friendship into almost love because first of all the definition of both love and friendship are not solid and it may vary between readers to readers, authors to authors, people to people. Also as many may say friendship is a form of love and love does have many forms.

You can love your family & pets. You can love your friend. You can love your country.

I have to say relationship is only be considered love "IF both parties recognise and formally label their relationship to be love". Thus, it can happen that they are actually in love with each other but fail to think that's love and that still make them Friends.
 
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NotaNuffian

Still a fat dude, duh. But damn, that smile.
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And kids, this is why we have Shounen Ai, that might accidentally trip to Yaoi lol.

Jokes aside, have them both clear out their feelings with one another. Do they love each other carnally? If not, why can't they love each other then?

If you must have too close, check Boyle's attitude to Peralta.
 
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xluferx

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Just have them say no homo and all problems will go away
Remember, no homo
 
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I don't know if you read Berserk or Banana Fish.

But the relationship of the 2 protags in both series (namely Griffith and Guts for Berserk, and Ash and Eiji for Banana Fish) is literally friendship. Some will argue that the case of Ash and Eiji to be 'love' but i greatly disagree with them. I have been a Fudanshi for more than 12 years and i have had my deal in BL in the classic Japanese manga. I have to say Ash and Eiji are nothing more than Friends.

Now back to the main point.

The relationship of both Griffith and Guts, and Ash and Eiji are friendship but the intensity of their relationship is extreme.

Ash and Eiji will live and die for each other.

The same can be said for Guts and Griffith. When Guts left Griffith, it literally wrecked him. He was jealous of Guts and Caska that he raped Caska in front of Guts just to spite Guts.

Back to your question. Yes friendship can be so intense that it is impossible to tell apart from love. Yes friendship can lead you to feel jealous of someone else's relationship with your best friend.

I also want to clarify one more thing. You can make friendship into almost love because first of all the definition of both love and friendship are not solid and it may varied between readers to readers, authors to authors, people to people. Also as many may say friendship is a form of love and love does have many forms.

You can love your family & pets. You can love your friend. You can love your country.

I have to say relationship is only be considered love "IF both party recognise and formally label their relationship to be love". Thus, it can happen that they are actually in love with each other but fail to think that's love.

I like the complexity you have added to the definition of friendship and love. I was afraid that I will ruin my novel with this confusion. Especially that Rio (the best friend of the protagonist) lived and breathed Helgar.. and I somehow felt I am going to the extreme there. But well, it is what it is...I have no plan to change this part anymore.

also what @Cossimeri wrote was correct, I am most likely afraid to anger some masculinity advocates. But who cares, I am writing for myself after all and for the very few readers that are following my novel.

Yes, it will get into a complicated friendship at some point, but I will leave it at that level. thanks, everyone!
 

Ai-chan

Queen of Yuri Devourer of Traps
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(probably I mixed up the Forum section again, this should have been in the Discussion and Writing Tips, but I cannot move it anymore.)

Hey Everyone,

So I have this inner conflict with the relationship between the protagonist and his friend (that is supposed to be his best friend).

Somehow, they are childhood friends. However, as I got to develop the story further I have realized that they are too close. Which can be also translated into subtle love. But I have no intention of making a love story or turning things romantic.

So my question is: is it acceptable to live and die for someone without having a romantic relationship with them? Especially for same gender?


Not too closeToo close!
Sleeps in the same bed separated by 5 inches of spaceSleeps in the same bed hugging each other in only underwear
Sits on the same couchSits on the other's lap on the same couch
Pours drinks from the same bottle/cartonShares the same glass despite a perfectly clean glass just next to you while looking at each other in the eyes
Swims togetherSwims together naked
Eats together at the same tableFeeds each other at the same table
Carries the injured other through a hail of bulletsPrincess-carries the perfectly fine other through a hail of bullets
Shares pornMasturbates each other
 

CheertheDead

Fudanshi of Yaoi-sama
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Nov 15, 2020
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I like the complexity you have added to the definition of friendship and love. I was afraid that I will ruin my novel with this confusion. Especially that Rio (the best friend of the protagonist) lived and breathed Helgar.. and I somehow felt I am going to the extreme there. But well, it is what it is...I have no plan to change this part anymore.

also what @Cossimeri wrote was correct, I am most likely afraid to anger some masculinity advocates. But who cares, I am writing for myself after all and for the very few readers that are following my novel.

Yes, it will get into a complicated friendship at some point, but I will leave it at that level. thanks, everyone!

If there is anything i haven't mentioned that would be.
No.1: How people love may be entirely different depend on each person.
Cases to check:
A. A guy who get jealous and will shower love to his lover
B. A guy who want to have their relationship recognised
C. A guy who do not care what the world see. He is contended with just a world of the two of them where they genuinely love each other and does not really care to make their relationship clear to the rest of the world.
D. A guy who will step back and let his lover be in the hands of someone else who give her the happiness he could not give.


A. This is typically what love have been described to be. You can't love someone if you are not possessive about your relationship with them. You can't call something love if it's just lukewarm, if you don't shower your lovers with your love. Core principal: being passionate in expressing your love.
B. Another conventional love definition. If you love someone, you want to tell the world you both are in love. You want to prove to the world that there is no one in this world loves your lover more than you. Core principal: be straight about it.
C. This is rare and usually seen as a weak relationship. This is exactly what happened in my life and i were once asked if me and my lover were actually in love or not. They even asked if we were near breaking up or not. The thing about this is. If you both have already understood how the other feels about you then jealousy, love showering, love proving, world recognition... all of them became meaningless. You both reached the stage where you can see your lover walk along side someone else extremely close and not feeling jealous because there is no reason for that. You both have already loved and known each other too well everything else become mundane. You two are connected in a much deeper level. You do not need to say and prove anything to anyone but when the situation calls, you will kill to protect your lovers. Core principal: Trust and Understanding.
D. The most controversial type. "If you do not have the will to take your lover in hands then you are not worthy to love him/her." Said the typical criticism. This is normally "correct" and accepted by the population. Now why do i put correct in quotation mark? Because whether something is "correct" or not is not provable in this situation. Like how exactly can you tell whether pushing forward with your love is the correct choice? Or whether giving up is right one? You only live in one timeline not two alternative ones. Core principal: Sacrifice and regret.

None of this is better than each other and none of this is wrong. A person is created by their personalities, their past, their present and everything else around them. Your character can be one of them or a mix of them and it is nothing weird about it if you set up scenarios, situations, monologues, past stories that explained how they reached their decision. In love or in any thing in literature, you can get thing very complex. The answer is not important in literature how you explain the answer is.

No.2: There is absolutely no rule say friends can't do something usually preserve for lovers.

The process is the same as above. There must be a plausible explanation as to how they reached this stage of relationship.

Q: Can two best friends engage in hot-hot smexy physical activities on bed (like f***ing)?

A: Of course they can.

Q: Can you find a good explanation as to how they reached that stage?

A: i myself can't think of anything. Therefore, i will not get them to that stage.


As already mentioned.

The answer is not important in literature how you explain the answer is.
 

bananapink

The Sickly Banana
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
153
Points
83
I don't know if you read Berserk or Banana Fish.

But the relationship of the 2 protags in both series (namely Griffith and Guts for Berserk, and Ash and Eiji for Banana Fish) is literally friendship. Some will argue that the case of Ash and Eiji to be 'love' but i greatly disagree with them. I have been a Fudanshi for more than 12 years and i have had my deal in BL in the classic Japanese manga. I have to say Ash and Eiji are nothing more than Friends.

Now back to the main point.

The relationship of both Griffith and Guts, and Ash and Eiji are friendship but the intensity of their relationship is extreme.

Ash and Eiji will live and die for each other.

The same can be said for Guts and Griffith. When Guts left Griffith, it literally wrecked him. He was jealous of Guts and Caska that he raped Caska in front of Guts just to spite Guts.

Back to your question. Yes friendship can be so intense that it is impossible to tell apart from love. Yes friendship can lead you to feel jealous of someone else's relationship with your best friend.

I also want to clarify one more thing. You can make friendship into almost love because first of all the definition of both love and friendship are not solid and it may vary between readers to readers, authors to authors, people to people. Also as many may say friendship is a form of love and love does have many forms.

You can love your family & pets. You can love your friend. You can love your country.

I have to say relationship is only be considered love "IF both parties recognise and formally label their relationship to be love". Thus, it can happen that they are actually in love with each other but fail to think that's love and that still make them Friends.
Why you do this... my wounds are healed and it peeled again after reading this! Arrrrrgg...
 

NotaNuffian

Still a fat dude, duh. But damn, that smile.
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
816
Points
108
Not too closeToo close!
Sleeps in the same bed separated by 5 inches of spaceSleeps in the same bed hugging each other in only underwear
Sits on the same couchSits on the other's lap on the same couch
Pours drinks from the same bottle/cartonShares the same glass despite a perfectly clean glass just next to you while looking at each other in the eyes
Swims togetherSwims together naked
Eats together at the same tableFeeds each other at the same table
Carries the injured other through a hail of bulletsPrincess-carries the perfectly fine other through a hail of bullets
Shares pornMasturbates each other
Holy shit a sheet!
Why you do this... my wounds are healed and it peeled again after reading this! Arrrrrgg...
You are a banana cat, to get peeled is your job.

Ps. ALL HAIL AUTOMERGE!!! WHY IS THIS NOT IN NUF???
 

Redemit

Active member
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Jul 23, 2019
Messages
39
Points
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Yes I'd kill or die for my best friends hell I'd kill or die for my dog it doesn't mean I'm romantically interested in my best friends or dog

this is honestly a subject I've thought about alot in the past about how so many people seem to confuse deep friendship for romantic interest I've seen it happen to lots of people and seen them be hurt because of it and the only reason I can think it happens is because people are not taught that it's ok to love someone without being in love with them and that there's different types of love and instead they are taught that if they love someone they ARE in love with them
 

Michuyu

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Jan 4, 2021
Messages
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Hey Everyone,

So I have this inner conflict with the relationship between the protagonist and his friend (that is supposed to be his best friend).

Somehow, they are childhood friends. However, as I got to develop the story further I have realized that they are too close. Which can be also translated into subtle love. But I have no intention of making a love story or turning things romantic.

So my question is: is it acceptable to live and die for someone without having a romantic relationship with them? Especially for same gender?
I think that it's usual that very close friends would go as far as to die for one another! ^^ It's like a parent would die for their child, even if that child isn't their biological offspring.
 

Soraalt44

New member
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Mar 19, 2021
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I believe it's only too close if it starts to become sexual or way too intimate.
HOWEVER
I think people need to lay off this idea that if two friends are intimate with each other, they are automatically gay or love each other romantically.
I personally think it's important to challenge readers with this, as in make the friendship intimate but still make sure to make it crystal clear they are not in a romantic or sexual relationship.
 
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