Games be soft these days.

[Llamadragon]

I only watched the first part and then gave up because what an absolutely stupid and self-centered take.

No one is taking video games away from edgy male gamers. There are plenty of edgy games made for a male audience that aren't apologetic and doesn't shy away from the edgiest edgelordism they can stab into the product like a rusty shiv into a grapefruit that's past its expiration date. There are more games like that than ever due to the sheer number of games being released nowadays. Let me repeat: THERE ARE MORE EDGY GAMES BEING MADE TODAY THAN EVER BEFORE.

But y'all are still complaining, because every single game isn't made to your taste?

Grow up lol. If you are old enough for your mommas to let you play games where you can swear and have sex with hookers, then you're old enough to read, and thus look up a couple of game reviews before you buy to make sure a particular game is to your taste. Other people with different taste exist, and they're allowed to make their dream games even if it hurts your little fee fees to not be catered to at every single moment of existence. You're doing the gaming equivalent of walking into a book store, drifting around randomly until you end up in the romance section, picking up 50 Shades of Grey, looking at the cover and the blurb then paying money for it, but when you read it you get outraged because it doesn't have enough dragonkilling or explosions in it. When the fantasy and action sections are at most five meters down the isle.

Just don't pay money for games you don't want to play it's not that difficult.

 

[SailusGebel]

This thread is still alive? The fuck?

 

[Llamadragon]

Oh damn I didn't even notice it was a necro lol

Ah well, I got to rant into the void a bit, I'm satisfied.

 

[SailusGebel]

Oh damn I didn't even notice it was a necro lol

Ah well, I got to rant into the void a bit, I'm satisfied.

No-no, you didn't necro, don't worry.

 

[Anon2024]

Just don't pay money for games you don't want to play it's not that difficult.

it’s also important to get people to feel negative about games you don’t like so companies lose money on shitty games.

but yeah, you’re entitled to your own opinion as well. I feel,good watching people shit on todays shit games.

 

[Llamadragon]

it’s also important to get people to feel negative about games you don’t like so companies lose money on shitty games.

but yeah, you’re entitled to your own opinion as well. I feel,good watching people shit on todays shit games.

Shitting on bad games is fine in my book, especially the big corpo stuff.

But a game isn't bad just because (and I'll quote the video) "they don't even let you misgender people anymore". That has nothing at all to do with the quality of gameplay, and everything to do with the players taste in video games (and/or the tastelessness of their predictable cardboard personality, if such a small part of life and creation takes up that much of their mental capacity).

In which case, just find games that suit your taste, most games still have gendered avatars so it's such a whiny thing to complain about. Many people (like myself) enjoy the newer gender-neutral-lite models because even if you roleplay as a male or female character, they're more customizable. For example there are several games, like the version of Palworld I played for example, where playing with a 'female' body will automatically put skimpy prostitute leather clothes on your character because that's the only female clothing option. But if you put a female-looking head oon a male body, you get to play a character who wears actual clothing.

It's just more customization options, that should be a good thing for everybody.

 

[Anon2024]

But a game isn't bad just because (and I'll quote the video) "they don't even let you misgender people anymore". That has nothing at all to do with the quality of gameplay, and everything to do with the players taste in video games.

actually, I’d argue it does reduce the quality of games. Not from a pure gameplay perspective but a developers, and aesthetic perspective, (which does have a factor on the psychological aspect on gameplay due to tone).

Western Developers for a lot of companies now spend so much time in DEI training classes they have much less time to develop games (increasing cost of development and reducing quality and content of games). Since they spend so much money and time stopping the edgy stuff (I believe it’s natural for people to have some edginess to be creative) and it limits their creativity and desire to make fun gameplay.

A lot of this stuff is interconnected, it’s the same with writing. The best authors are never afraid of offending people, they simply put out their thoughts and work.

 

[Llamadragon]

actually, I’d argue it does reduce the quality of games. Not from a pure gameplay perspective but a developers, and aesthetic perspective, (which does have a factor on the psychological aspect on gameplay due to tone).

Western Developers for a lot of companies now spend so much time in DEI training classes they have much less time to develop games (increasing cost of development and reducing quality and content of games). Since they spend so much money and time stopping the edgy stuff (I believe it’s natural for people to have some edginess to be creative) and it limits their creativity and desire to make fun gameplay.

A lot of this stuff is interconnected, it’s the same with writing. The best authors are never afraid of offending people, they simply put out their thoughts and work.

No, most game devs don't take a bunch of DEI training, or any at all (outside from the 'don't be an asshole to your coworkers' stuff, which is pretty important in game dev circles because many game dev communities is a Venn diagram with the autistic and LGBTQ communities). It isn't relevant to most of their jobs. Large dev companies don't work like that. They have a small amount of people whose job it is to design the story and the style. Everybody else just does what they're told to do, by the people who may have taken some DEI training but so what if a handful of executives took a few hours to update themselves on the people they're selling games to. They certainly don't have "much less time to develop games". Maybe that's true for the small indie guys who have to be responsible for everything, but those aren't really the focus of the video.

And most books, theatre plays and movies out there aren't edgy at all (in fact, most stories out there are romances written for women, not an edgy male audience), so why would creativity be inherently edgy? Up until now, game design was somewhat gate kept behind gender roles and socionomic divides. When video games first started, white young men were the ones most likely to study IT, programming, and thus game design. Now, those young men who once made those edgy young-man games are older and have a different sense of humor. Programming is also much more accessible with programs like Godot, Blender and Unity being free, with Youtube tutorials for everything dev-related you'd ever need. Now, the dev communities include women, children, older creatives, and just people in general including poc.

Think about it this way. If you owned a game company with a few hundred employees, at least some of those employees will be women, LGBTQ, poc, or whatever. Do you really want your employees to make a game that'd attack people like them? Do you think those employees wouldn't let you know that you're screwing up? They would. And if you're a decent boss, you listen, because their passion of lack-thereof is going to make or break your game.

 

[Anon2024]

No, most game devs don't take a bunch of DEI training, or any at all (outside from the 'don't be an asshole to your coworkers' stuff, which is pretty important in game dev circles because many game dev communities is a Venn diagram with the autistic and LGBTQ communities). It isn't relevant to most of their jobs. Large dev companies don't work like that. They have a small amount of people whose job it is to design the story and the style. Everybody else just does what they're told to do, by the people who may have taken some DEI training but so what if a handful of executives took a few hours to update themselves on the people they're selling games to. They certainly don't have "much less time to develop games". Maybe that's true for the small indie guys who have to be responsible for everything, but those aren't really the focus of the video.

And most books, theatre plays and movies out there aren't edgy at all (in fact, most stories out there are romances written for women, not an edgy male audience), so why would creativity be inherently edgy? Up until now, game design was somewhat gate kept behind gender roles and socionomic divides. When video games first started, white young men were the ones most likely to study IT, programming, and thus game design. Now, those young men who once made those edgy young-man games are older and have a different sense of humor. Programming is also much more accessible with programs like Godot, Blender and Unity being free, with Youtube tutorials for everything dev-related you'd ever need. Now, the dev communities include women, children, older creatives, and just people in general including poc.

Think about it this way. If you owned a game company with a few hundred employees, at least some of those employees will be women, LGBTQ, poc, or whatever. Do you really want your employees to make a game that'd attack people like them? Do you think those employees wouldn't let you know that you're screwing up? They would. And if you're a decent boss, you listen, because their passion of lack-thereof is going to make or break your game.

First, I’d like it if you could be more concise, a lot of your post is rambling.

what I got from the wall of text:

1. YOU DISAGREE that lots of devs are forced into DEI training.
2. You think the people who made the edgy games are “more mature” now somehow, rather than having an actual demographic change.
3. You somehow think edginess is attacking LGBTQ.

I feel any discussion with you about evidence and concepts will turn into an argument.

I don’t feel like arguing with you will go anywhere since you have strong opinions. So I’m just going to give up and say you win so I can save my time.

Have a nice day.

 

[Llamadragon]

First, I’d like it if you could be more concise, a lot of your post is rambling.

what I got from the wall of text:

1. YOU DISAGREE that lots of devs are forced into DEI training.
2. You think the people who made the edgy games are “more mature” now somehow, rather than having an actual demographic change.
3. You somehow think edginess is attacking LGBTQ.

I feel any discussion with you about evidence and concepts will turn into an argument.

I don’t feel like arguing with you will go anywhere since you have strong opinions. So I’m just going to give up and say you win so I can save my time.

Have a nice day.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that devs get DEI training. Many professions have stuff like that, it comes with being an adult and having a job. This was a thing long before it was called DEI as well as in countries where DEI doesn't exist or isn't called that. I got classes in decency since elementary school and in most of my jobs and fields since then. It's just something large workplaces have to do to prevent unnecessary conflict between employees, they always have done this.

I am however saying it isn't taking up a lot of their time and I don't understand why you'd think that. At the very most, it'd be a couple of days out of the several years it takes to make a triple A game. Furthermore, most of that time would be in the downtime. Like in the time between games. Plus, games are such big projects that there are stages to the development, and not everybody works in a game at the same time. Things like DEI classes, teambuilding, staying up to date with the skills they need for the always advancing programs, and general research happens in the windows between teams being busy with the actual work on the games. For example, a 3D artist won't have a lot to do until the 2D guys are done hashing out the concept art, and this kind of stuff would happen during that down period. And the lighting guys come in after rthe 3D modelers are done with the landscape. The big corpos may have mandatory DEI classes, but they were never going to take away their employees attention from the periods where they actually need to be productive.

As for edginess attacking the LGBTQ... um, yeah, why do you think the video started with "can't even misgender anyone anymore"? It's a thing. I didn't bring that up randomly.

But alright, have a nice day.

 

[Anon2024]

@Llamadragon

You’re definitely entitled to your ideas and world view.

I just find there is a lot of eyewitness accounts and statements made by employees and former employees of the large companies for it to not be a coincidence that western games have way more bugs in them than eastern ones. Not to mention a lot of those old developers are out of work, unless they accept the change by dei.

The question of the old devs changing is a debate between “maturity” or “forced dei” since people will get fired for having opinions now a days.

Also, edginess doesn’t have to attack lgbtq, it can attack anyone. It’s just right now it’s fine to attack every group except certain minorities and lgtbq, hence the whole point about “misgendering” leading to backlash but if you don’t see it the same way that’s fine too.

There is a difference between how I like my entertainment and how I interact with people, I prefer not to offend people when communicating with them (since in general I’m respectful even if I disagree), but I like offensive entertainment.

Hence I also like the video that is offensive because I do feel that every group should be allowed to be offended the same way.

In either case, thank you for being civil.

 

[Llamadragon]

@Anon2024

I'm not saying you can't personally enjoy offensive content, that's your business. I'm not trying to police your tastes here.

To clarify - what I have an issue with is whiners like the guy who made the video. People who act oh so very tough, even though they never moved beyond the stage of development where they demand that everything caters to what they want. They're selfish, elitist gatekeepers who drives people away from the hobby, and this dude is vitriolic. In just the first few minutes I watched, this guy blames the current economic decline of the gaming industry on it not being sufficiently edgy and not catering enough to the 'original male demographic' that loves edgy games (never mind that the best selling franchise in gaming ever is Super Mario, or that some of the most successful games in recent years have been in the cozy genre..). No, the current decline is just the return back to normal after the spike in the gaming market during COVID lockdowns.

Bro is just pissing in the shared water for clicks. And yeah, there is a decline in western AAA games, but it has everything to do with corpos and micro transactions, and nothing at all to do with DEI or how much edginess there is or isn't. Baldurs Gate did incredibly well, is 'woke' by pretty much any metric, and it's not edgy or offensive. It did well because it isn't full of micro transactions and it isn't designed to constantly update with new content to keep the players hooked at the expense of the franchises soul.

If all you do is enjoy a specific flavor of entertainment, you're good in my book. Just don't be like this guy and hollow out your entire personality just to make room for all the hate, you know?

 

[2wordsperminute]

programs like Godot, Blender and Unity being free

You forgot the oxford comma, ratio.

 

[Llamadragon]

You forgot the oxford comma, ratio.

It's ok, I accept myself for all my faults. I'll forgive this transgression on the English language. :)

 

[ElliePorter]

NSFW

NetherRealm Studios (Formerly Midway Games) was still an Independent Private studio during the Pre-MK X Era.

Now, he's just the Creative Director for MK just like how Harada is to Tekken.

 

[Jocelyn_Uasal]

I miss Morrowinds quest design of "Hey go east for idk how long to find idk what"

"Can I have a quest marker?"

"A what marker? You n'wah are all the same" *spits on you *

 

[BearlyAlive]

Nowadays it's all "You got a quest, would you like to teleport to the quest point or activate auto-completion?"

"... can I play the game I paid money for?"

"What?! You actually want to play the game?! What fucking degenerate idiot are you?! Burn heretic, burn!!! Nobody plays games anymore, games are for losers! So sit quietly in front of the screen and watch us play the game for you. Nobody is allowed to have fun here!"

 

[Voidiris]

If a game that is based upon obstacles and mechanics is so easy its obstacles and mechanics become unintentional meaningless would be what I call a bad game.
Making a game easy and building everything around this or at least building the mechanics so that they will still be used and fun is what I call a good game.
So monster hunter dealed still with the "softer" design the best.

 

[ElliePorter]

I miss Morrowinds quest design of "Hey go east for idk how long to find idk what"

"Can I have a quest marker?"

"A what marker? You n'wah are all the same" *spits on you *

Yes, I remember being lost for 2 hours just to find this Missing Redoran trader. Only to find him in a crypt that's too far from what the journal has stated

Or this quest involving a guar farmer in the middle of god knows where swamp.

I swear the quests in Morrowind are so whack.

 

[Jocelyn_Uasal]

this quest involving a guar farmer in the middle of god knows where

The fact that I know which farmer though is just wild, really a fantastic game and something I don't think will ever be made again.

At some point I think games stopped being a medium to tell a story, and instead became just one fun moment after another with much less thought into the "why" of things. Almost zero "why should I shoot this person?" in favor of "just do it haha bang bang!"