How difficult: English language as the medium of writing

Pistachio

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
42
Points
18
It was a struggle for most of my teenage years to write a novel-length story; long chapters, complete, and in fluent English. I wanted to write but I couldn't put the right words on paper because English is not my native language, it's my second. Grammar alone is a wall, vocabulary a stumbling block, and forming coherent sentences had practically paralyzed me from even attempting a draft. It took me countless reading, studying, and envy to finally make and finish a written work. Even to this day, I wrestle with the language in my ongoing works and with my recent slump I remembered, recalled, and wondered if it is easier for native English writers to write what's in their head or just as difficult. Is it? Why?

Since English is my second language, the process of writing is similar to a translation procedure; I think of it in my native language then, I find an equivalent English word. It sounds time-consuming, it is, but with time and practice, I've become faster in creating sentences that flow and understanding words in milliseconds. So, back again at the question above, is it difficult? My naive brain tells me it's not that difficult because, well, it's your first language after all! Still, enlighten me.
 

Kotohood

Noob Author
Joined
May 17, 2019
Messages
263
Points
103
Mastering a language is never easy. This goes the same for me as well. (I know two languages myself, but I mainly use English). Not all of us have a masters in English after-all.
 

Phantomheart

Cliff Hanger Player
Joined
Feb 13, 2019
Messages
260
Points
103
Every person has a different grasp over their writing, and while native English speakers have been learning the language since birth, not everyone bothers to understand language, or go further into it's study. Language is a skill, and some people just aren't proficient. Many authors here struggle with English grammar, whether they are native speakers or not. I myself have trouble with sentence spacing, although I find myself having a higher understanding of the English lexicon. We all have our niches, and English is such a complex language to write in since many words have double meanings and can essentially change meanings with the single placement of a comma.

English is a skill to be built and learned, no one, not even native speakers, are inherently geniuses regarding it.

Also, may I just say that your English is impeccable *thumbs up* learning vocabulary words is a great way to enhance your use of the English lexis and gives you a better view of how words work in the language; Latin roots, German roots, and other European languages have such a strong root over the common English language, and not to mention the other variations of English, such as those used in the U.K.
 

yansusustories

Matchmaker of Handsome Men
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
622
Points
133
I wrote in my native language for years before I switched over to English in 2018. To be honest, after about half a year of getting used to it I now think writing in English is easier. I do need to look up some words every now and then and my grammar is probably off at times (let's not talk about punctuation here) but it flows more naturally. Maybe it's also because I'm keeping things simpler now than I did before and concentrate more on readability than anything fancy.
So I wouldn't say that the difficulty depends on whether it's your native language or not. Other factors might also be at play there.
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
Trust me when I say this, but a surprising number of the stories on SH with poor grammar is actually written by English natives. Just because you spoke and wrote a language for your entire life doesn't mean that you're actually any good at it.

That said, the reverse can also be true as well. Someone with only a handful of years of study can have a stronger grasp of the language than someone who's spent their entire lives speaking it. It's a question of sustained effort more than anything else.

Is it easy once you get good? Well, it depends, but I'd say no, it isn't. That's because I constantly strive to do better in my writing, and that's never easy. If you find a level you are satisfied with and continue without improving, sure, it can become easy, but I'd say you are also becoming complacent.

Like you, English isn't my first language, but unlike you, I am a native speaker, despite how contradictory it sounds. I write better than some, but worse than others. My readers will attest that my English is far from perfect, and my comments actively show that I always make mistakes.

But I improve all the time, and I keep trying new things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't (I need to go back and seriously fix one section of experimental writing when I have time). But by always striving for higher levels, you'll someday achieve what you want. At least I believe that.
 

Azrie

Redemption Seeker
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
78
Points
73
Hmm... English is my second language. While it really isn't a struggle to write using it (aside from occasional grammar errors), I do find myself in a struggle at times. Mostly with sentence flow or wordings. While it's not hard for me to write in English, keeping things as if I had written them on my native language is hard/near impossible. So that's my biggest struggle.

Other than that, I am just bad at punctuation. Since even if I read the sentence outloud I can't really figure out if I should use x symbol or just anything at all... So that can be quite a problem because — a single comma can change the meaning of a sentence.

Everyone has been learning a language for different amounts of time. While I have been learning English for about 12 years; the moment I improved the most was when I chose to start writing. Because as we all know, a single sentence is not the same as three-thousand words. So, those are my experiences personally. I thought I should share.
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
Hmm... English is my second language. While it really isn't a struggle to write using it (aside from occasional grammar errors), I do find myself in a struggle at times. Mostly with sentence flow or wordings. While it's not hard for me to write in English, keeping things as if I had written them on my native language is hard/near impossible. So that's my biggest struggle.

Other than that, I am just bad at punctuation. Since even if I read the sentence outloud I can't really figure out if I should use x symbol or just anything at all... So that can be quite a problem because — a single comma can change the meaning of a sentence.

Everyone has been learning a language for different amounts of time. While I have been learning English for about 12 years; the moment I improved the most was when I chose to start writing. Because as we all know, a single sentence is not the same as three-thousand words. So, those are my experiences personally. I thought I should share.
I used to work as a translator, so I wanted to point this out. Nothing can be translated 1:1 between any two languages, even ones that are similar. Thinking something in one language and then trying to put it into English is fine, but never do that with prose or any for of style. It just won't work and people can feel it even if they can't put it into words.

Stick to the outline in your mind in whatever language you want, but when you put it into English (or whatever language you decide to write in) take it as taking an idea and putting it down in a new form. Imagine what ideas a character wants to put into paper, but when you write it out, think of the details in the target language from the ground up, not just translating what's in your head the best you can.

This'll both improve your quality and speed vastly, and once you get used to it, it'll look much better than when you used to just translate from your head.
 

Capharas

Active member
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
7
Points
43
I'm also not a native speaker and I don't have much experience yet, but just starting to write is the first step to getting better. Whenever I don't know a word, i just look it up and there are tools out there that can help you with grammar (like grammaly, it's free, at least grammar correction)

If that still doesn't convince you to just start: "The Villainess’s Redemption" has terrible grammar at times but it's still listed in trending every day (sorry bananapink), but it also has gotten a lot better and some people even help you find mistakes.

PS. your english does sound quite good. With time you can probably write everything without using your native language.
 

Darkwood

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
40
Points
58
I can tell you now as, a person from the uk, if some of the people where I’m from wrote a book I would rather read it once it had gone through google translate from gibberish to English.
On the other hand, depending on the level of vocabulary that the person has it would be easier for a native speaker to write a novel in English. It would also depend on the subject matter of writing and the level of education that your characters have. I personally haven’t found any problems in the writings of people who have English as a second language so long as they have a reasonable grasp on the language; though I do notice when grammar is wrong (something that really annoys me). For the most part, if you use correct grammar and don’t word your sentences terribly awkwardly, I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference from a native author.
 

tiaf

ゞ(シㅇ3ㅇ)っ•♥•Speak fishy, read BL.•♥•
Joined
May 29, 2019
Messages
2,255
Points
153
After eight years English class in school and two years excessive novel reading, I can say, that as long as you stick to SPO and simple past, it can be easy to write, while still being very enjoyable to read. The story has to be appealing~

That aside, my main language is said to be very hard to learn (it is 囧rz) and it has more grammar rules than English, so my opinion is biased. (You see all the commas? All based on grammar rules of my main language. For seven grades only grammar rules...)

But I really do think, that thanks to the exposure of English on the net, it’s way easier to learn and use it than other languages.
 

binarysoap

Currently Lurking
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
488
Points
133
English is my first language and also the one I use all the time since I live in an English speaking country. That being said, I did also grow up speaking other languages since my parents mainly spoke non-English at home, and also learned other foreign languages too.
When actually trying to write in English, I still have problems writing down exactly what I am thinking, since the other languages sometimes have a nicer word that captures exactly what I want to say.
Regardless of languages, trying to describe some object or person in words is also a difficult endeavor, and English is not an exception. I could have the object I want to describe right in front of me, and it takes effort to translate that into words, so even as an English native speaker, it is still difficult to put down what's in my head into English.
One of the main things I really don't like about the English language as a medium of writing as opposed to some other language is there is no gender-neutral pronoun. Sure, things like zhe exists, or i could keep typing he/she, but none of the solutions are really elegant.
 

jinxs2011

Spud Cannon
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
150
Points
83
English is my first language. It's not particularly hard for me, per se, to write in english, my main problems lie in things that I think would apply to someone in any language - accidentally writing in the wrong tense, spelling errors and the word you want to write suddenly having evacuated from your vocabulary.
One of the main things I really don't like about the English language as a medium of writing as opposed to some other language is there is no gender-neutral pronoun. Sure, things like zhe exists, or i could keep typing he/she, but none of the solutions are really elegant.
I agree with this. As one of the characters that comes up in the chapter i'm currently writing doesn't technically have a gender, I looked up gender-neutral pronouns and all I found were ones like those, which sound absolutely ridiculous. I think I had to refer to them as 'they' or by their name, which, as you said, doesn't quite work very well.
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
English is my first language and also the one I use all the time since I live in an English speaking country. That being said, I did also grow up speaking other languages since my parents mainly spoke non-English at home, and also learned other foreign languages too.
When actually trying to write in English, I still have problems writing down exactly what I am thinking, since the other languages sometimes have a nicer word that captures exactly what I want to say.
Oh man! I know what you mean! I do that all the time even when speaking! There's been so many occasions when I'm thinking something but I can't remember what the English word for it, or flat out didn't know the English word for it!

Then again, I had to teach several coworkers what the word schadenfreude meant, even though it's been an English word for as long as some of them have been alive, and frankly, it's been becoming quite a common one at that, especially the last few years or so.

...they? They exists and is a gender neutral pronoun that has had widespread use for centuries? Eg.
"The electrician came by just now."
"Oh, they arrived early! They weren't meant to be here before twelve."
It does work, but it's also extremely clunky. It's better than 'it' as there's so many negative connotations that goes with that. I don't like it at all, but use anyways it since English doesn't have a good alternative (I haven't even heard of the use of 'zhe' before).
 

binarysoap

Currently Lurking
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
488
Points
133
...they? They exists and is a gender neutral pronoun that has had widespread use for centuries? Eg.
"The electrician came by just now."
"Oh, they arrived early! They weren't meant to be here before twelve."
Using the singular they is a solution, but sometimes it can get confusing, since, for example:

A hooded figure was lurking around the castle. Suddenly, they quickly silenced all the guards and snuck in.

That might be confusing since they is most commonly used as a plural pronoun, so if I had mentioned other characters before, it can be interpreted as more than that person going in, even when I just mean that hooded figure.
To be more specific, English does not have a good gender-neutral singular pronoun for humans. Meanwhile, in Chinese and I believe Japanese, there is.
 

BenJepheneT

Light Up Gold - Parquet Courts
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
5,344
Points
233
Trust me when I say this, but a surprising number of the stories on SH with poor grammar is actually written by English natives. Just because you spoke and wrote a language for your entire life doesn't mean that you're actually any good at it.

That said, the reverse can also be true as well. Someone with only a handful of years of study can have a stronger grasp of the language than someone who's spent their entire lives speaking it. It's a question of sustained effort more than anything else.

Is it easy once you get good? Well, it depends, but I'd say no, it isn't. That's because I constantly strive to do better in my writing, and that's never easy. If you find a level you are satisfied with and continue without improving, sure, it can become easy, but I'd say you are also becoming complacent.

Like you, English isn't my first language, but unlike you, I am a native speaker, despite how contradictory it sounds. I write better than some, but worse than others. My readers will attest that my English is far from perfect, and my comments actively show that I always make mistakes.

But I improve all the time, and I keep trying new things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't (I need to go back and seriously fix one section of experimental writing when I have time). But by always striving for higher levels, you'll someday achieve what you want. At least I believe that.
I like this. I like this very much.

Finally, someone had addressed the issue that even if you're a native speaker, that doesn't mean that you're automatically good in that language. I've seen folks writing "teached" in their damn stories while having a proud UK flag next to their bios.

She's got a great point here. You can never be good enough in English. You're either only better or worse than before. Even the great novelist himself Stephen King learns a thing or two with other small-time writers. Therein lies the magic in writing itself - the endless accession of skill. There's no level cap in how your writing is. Come to this day, even with the oldest veterans of writers still find surprises in every paragraph they read till' this day and all of that can be found right in the building blocks of stories and tales that is the English language.
 

thenewscifi

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
8
Points
3
One of the things that separates English from most other language is amount of different words that are close synonyms to each other and can mean slightly different things to different subcultures who speak English. On the other hand that offers a a richness to the language that few others can achieve. I don't disagree with the adage that it takes a million words written to come into your own writing, and I think that especially applies to writing in English.
 

Llamadragon

Active member
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
171
Points
43
Feeling this.

English is my second language, and I used to write directly in English all the time. For most stuff I still do, but usually not for novels, at least when I'm serious. I got a tip from an editor a while ago, who said to write in my native language and then translate it. And it's so much better for me. I'm fluent in English. I've role-played online in English for a decade and a half, I use it so much I think in English. School started me in it when I was six. But there's still something about writing in my native language that makes for richer words, quicker writing speed, and better pacing. And then it's just a matter of moving all those things to English.
 

Andro

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
21
Points
3
English isn't my native language and I have hardships to write a story in English. I'm okay as long as I use it on forums where I have to write in English, but it would be hard for me to write a whole chapter in English. The biggest problem is, that my thoughts are far more ahead of my English writting. So I write on my native language (Hungarian) first and translate the chapter later to English. It's a little bit easier for me, even if I understand, speak, read and write English very well.
 
Top