How do you make a badass and secretive villain/Antagonist

JDC_OnPaper

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
30
Points
58
Just like the thread's title, I want to know how you write a badass antagonist for example:
Star wars- Sheev "I am the Senate!!!" Palpatine

In the prequels he was a badass politician and If I could say "sith lord", he calculated his moves precisely and wisely, without making any room for mistakes, and if there were mistakes he can immediately fix it. Ex: Trade federation was unable to force the treaty with the queen of naboo, leaving Palatine to control "mind control" her to force the treaty himself (I think).

Now in my novel there is a good in-world politics and the MC is a military genius and knows quite alot about the political battlefield. (Btw, this is medieval politics) I want to make an antagonist that can be the "puppeteer" or "the man behind the curtain" I want his identity to be a secret while making appearances, I also want him to go head-on with the MC (sometimes), I also want him to control and manipulate the MC's allies and random politicians, while his identity is a secret like:

"A man in a black coat entered the minister's room, it covered his face, and though it wasn't noticeable to a few people, he had wore an extra mask under his cloak to hide his face.

He walked to the minister's desk, leaving only a letter, inside it wrote the contents of a surprise purge on high ranking nobles and officials. The contents were enough for betrayal and defection, in the world of politics, you must never trust anybody, as inside, everybody is selfish and untrustworthy.

Anybody that wants to live a long life only has two choice: To be backstabbed , or the one to backstab.

The man looked at his surroundings and left with haste, leaving no signs of his trace, or even if he entered it, the man left the room."

Like that, I want him to shrewd, secretive, smart, manipulative, I want an antagonist that can actually fight the Protagonist on "high Ground" I want him to have the upper hand, if your fighting a cold military genius (that doesn't give a f*ck on whoever you are, be it girl or boy, old or young, human or not, as long as you challenge him he'll give you a fight), you must make your moves precise and perfect.

I don't want an antagonist that only uses brute force and his stupid cronies to fight his battles, I want somebody that can actually fight the MC even with high ground, using intellect and strategy to actually fight the protag without revealing himself.

So if anybody has any tips about writing an antagonist like that, please help me. I also want him to be secretive about his appearance. I also want him to be right under the Protagonist and readers eyes, I want him to be near the MC and his gang, without attracting any attention.

So if you guys could help me I'd really appreciate it, do you guys haves any tips on how to write and descript him (The antagonist)?

Btw this is a medieval world and the MC is from a Galactic nation with heavily advance technology and weaponry, I already have the (antagonist's driving force) check, all I need is to write him in a manner that will make my readers think that he is an ally but actually an enemy.

So if you guys have any tips, arigathanks!
 

DubstheDuke

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
301
Points
103
Well, if you want him to be secretive, then here's my advice.

Carefully filter everything you reveal about him (Or her).

Write an opening scene just to show he exists, and is plotting something.

Make a plot. What schemes is he trying to perform? What counters and strategies will he use against the protagonist?

Show little bits of him making moves to further his goals as the story progresses, but keep his overall goal and final plan hidden until the big scene where the mc meets him.

Of course, the scene where the mc first meets the antagonist doesn't have to be the big fight. It could be an intermediate fight where both escape, but now with knowledge on one another. If the antagonist is scheming, then he wouldn't worry about pride or be ashamed to dip when things are looking bad, or when he feels that he's received enough information to make the encounter worth it.

At the end of the day, a good scheming antagonist will do everything he can to try and predict the movements, abilities, and weaknesses of the protagonist and those working with the protagonist. And the reason he will lose will be because there was just one final thing which he didn't take into account.

Don't make this final thing something as dumb as friendship.

That's all the advice I can give.
 

GDLiZy

Tale Admirer
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
598
Points
133
Make omen, having only his shadow seen, using bare minimum and cryptic words to describe his appearance or just silhouette, exaggerate or heighten the impact of his action. Atmosphere and style are what indicates that who is the fear and who is the feared. Use the well-known to establish his superiority in the hierarchy.

Make him an irresistible threat to the MC. Be ruthless and create and a strong lasting consequence/impression.

If they did this casually and with confidence, then he is someone the MC is not ready for.
 

someonesomeguy

zessei bijin stepford
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
231
Points
83
Just like the thread's title, I want to know how you write a badass antagonist for example:
Star wars- Sheev "I am the Senate!!!" Palpatine

In the prequels he was a badass politician and If I could say "sith lord", he calculated his moves precisely and wisely, without making any room for mistakes, and if there were mistakes he can immediately fix it. Ex: Trade federation was unable to force the treaty with the queen of naboo, leaving Palatine to control "mind control" her to force the treaty himself (I think).

Now in my novel there is a good in-world politics and the MC is a military genius and knows quite alot about the political battlefield. (Btw, this is medieval politics) I want to make an antagonist that can be the "puppeteer" or "the man behind the curtain" I want his identity to be a secret while making appearances, I also want him to go head-on with the MC (sometimes), I also want him to control and manipulate the MC's allies and random politicians, while his identity is a secret like:

"A man in a black coat entered the minister's room, it covered his face, and though it wasn't noticeable to a few people, he had wore an extra mask under his cloak to hide his face.

He walked to the minister's desk, leaving only a letter, inside it wrote the contents of a surprise purge on high ranking nobles and officials. The contents were enough for betrayal and defection, in the world of politics, you must never trust anybody, as inside, everybody is selfish and untrustworthy.

Anybody that wants to live a long life only has two choice: To be backstabbed , or the one to backstab.

The man looked at his surroundings and left with haste, leaving no signs of his trace, or even if he entered it, the man left the room."

Like that, I want him to shrewd, secretive, smart, manipulative, I want an antagonist that can actually fight the Protagonist on "high Ground" I want him to have the upper hand, if your fighting a cold military genius (that doesn't give a f*ck on whoever you are, be it girl or boy, old or young, human or not, as long as you challenge him he'll give you a fight), you must make your moves precise and perfect.

I don't want an antagonist that only uses brute force and his stupid cronies to fight his battles, I want somebody that can actually fight the MC even with high ground, using intellect and strategy to actually fight the protag without revealing himself.

So if anybody has any tips about writing an antagonist like that, please help me. I also want him to be secretive about his appearance. I also want him to be right under the Protagonist and readers eyes, I want him to be near the MC and his gang, without attracting any attention.

So if you guys could help me I'd really appreciate it, do you guys haves any tips on how to write and descript him (The antagonist)?

Btw this is a medieval world and the MC is from a Galactic nation with heavily advance technology and weaponry, I already have the (antagonist's driving force) check, all I need is to write him in a manner that will make my readers think that he is an ally but actually an enemy.

So if you guys have any tips, arigathanks!
Just Google what British did in India.


Subsidiary alliances (to make the citizens think there honor hasn't been tarnished )and in fighting in the masses.

Gifts and offering protection and slowly eating at treasury and taking control while acting like it's for your benefit .

Stationing troops at rulers cost.
Bribery.


Just keep rulers and keys safe (watch cp grey video about rules for rulers)happy and they won't care .

Just keep people at top happy and complacent and population mis informed and illiterate.
Do it subtly that it's very hard to know where exactly are they cutting to steal wealth. Example allowing tax free trade for some.

Also don't change traditions and local culture.

Don't really change anything hell keep the same surname on throne.

Help lots weaker take down stronger don't annex them outright subsidiary alliance.

Lot of kingdoms hate other kingdoms make them win by your help(use soilders won from other kingdoms)

Provide some advantage which can really screw opportunities in your favour if you get support of kingdom and then refuse them resource
(Only and only if you actually have such an important resource like guns in Africa)


Kill the rebels leaders don't exile.



Read The Prince


It has been written centuries ago doesn't violate copyright
The prince





Google co grey rule for rulers I think it is two videos



Prince also has some for military strategy.
Example mercenary just leave if enemy mercenary group is bigger. They just leave won't fight if victory isn't possible.
 
Last edited:

minacia

perpetually sour
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
531
Points
133
Well, there's a lot of different ways to approach this depending on your preferences~

One of my personal favorite approaches is to have the character do the opposite of what you expect. Nothing the antagonist does should make sense until all of the webbing comes together and you make your plot twist.

For instance, the "logical" thing is to run left? He runs right!

The point of this is when writing a genius character (who is smarter than you), he thinks on a level much higher than the degree the protagonist or author is able to process. He shouldn't do anything that is easily discernible by the reader.

For instance, rather than having him blackmail the character you initially wanted him to black (blackmail is too cliche), have your antagonist give him lotsssss of cookies. Loads and loads and loads and loads of cookies. Make the antagonist extraordinary likable and trustworthy. Make him kind to the weak and poor, and make him type of person who will reach out to help everyone.

Make his weapons psychological rather than brute-force.

And yes, I still consider blackmail, assassination, and those stereotypical villain tools "brute-forced".

An example of psychological manipulation is a little drop of a love potion, dangling the carrots over someone's heartfelt dreams, ruining your subjects life so they fall straight into his hands (he plays the role of the white knight who rescues them despite secretly staging the entire problem), and leading because his own subordinates believe that he is morally justified.

One of my favorite board games is go/baduk because it has a lot of metaphors for life.

For example, take this board position:

Screen Shot 2021-01-16 at 10.20.19 AM.png


In go, the objective of the game is to end the game with more territory. Unlike other games (like chess), there's no benefit from killing stones.

On this particular board, white spent five moves trying to capture black's one stone at C5, whereas black has spread out all over the board in the meantime. In other words, white is overconcentrated and white fell for black's diversion. The C5 stone is basically a sacrifice and white shouldn't have invested so much energy trying to kill it.

Screen Shot 2021-01-16 at 10.31.24 AM.png


In this particular board position, even though white managed to survive in the corner (worth only 2 points of territory), white lost all of the initiative and black has an incredible amount of influence on the outside. In this kind of situation, sometimes it is better for white to completely give up the corner rather than trying desperately to save it for little value. Black managed to profit immensely by manipulating white's excessive attachment to the corner when in reality better moves exist elsewhere on the board.
 

Ununique

Messiah of Alternate Accounts.
Joined
May 21, 2020
Messages
81
Points
73
Just like the thread's title, I want to know how you write a badass antagonist for example:
Star wars- Sheev "I am the Senate!!!" Palpatine

In the prequels he was a badass politician and If I could say "sith lord", he calculated his moves precisely and wisely, without making any room for mistakes, and if there were mistakes he can immediately fix it. Ex: Trade federation was unable to force the treaty with the queen of naboo, leaving Palatine to control "mind control" her to force the treaty himself (I think).

Now in my novel there is a good in-world politics and the MC is a military genius and knows quite alot about the political battlefield. (Btw, this is medieval politics) I want to make an antagonist that can be the "puppeteer" or "the man behind the curtain" I want his identity to be a secret while making appearances, I also want him to go head-on with the MC (sometimes), I also want him to control and manipulate the MC's allies and random politicians, while his identity is a secret like:

"A man in a black coat entered the minister's room, it covered his face, and though it wasn't noticeable to a few people, he had wore an extra mask under his cloak to hide his face.

He walked to the minister's desk, leaving only a letter, inside it wrote the contents of a surprise purge on high ranking nobles and officials. The contents were enough for betrayal and defection, in the world of politics, you must never trust anybody, as inside, everybody is selfish and untrustworthy.

Anybody that wants to live a long life only has two choice: To be backstabbed , or the one to backstab.

The man looked at his surroundings and left with haste, leaving no signs of his trace, or even if he entered it, the man left the room."

Like that, I want him to shrewd, secretive, smart, manipulative, I want an antagonist that can actually fight the Protagonist on "high Ground" I want him to have the upper hand, if your fighting a cold military genius (that doesn't give a f*ck on whoever you are, be it girl or boy, old or young, human or not, as long as you challenge him he'll give you a fight), you must make your moves precise and perfect.

I don't want an antagonist that only uses brute force and his stupid cronies to fight his battles, I want somebody that can actually fight the MC even with high ground, using intellect and strategy to actually fight the protag without revealing himself.

So if anybody has any tips about writing an antagonist like that, please help me. I also want him to be secretive about his appearance. I also want him to be right under the Protagonist and readers eyes, I want him to be near the MC and his gang, without attracting any attention.

So if you guys could help me I'd really appreciate it, do you guys haves any tips on how to write and descript him (The antagonist)?

Btw this is a medieval world and the MC is from a Galactic nation with heavily advance technology and weaponry, I already have the (antagonist's driving force) check, all I need is to write him in a manner that will make my readers think that he is an ally but actually an enemy.

So if you guys have any tips, arigathanks!
Spoilers for The first law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie.

In the story of the first law trilogy one of the main driving forces for the entire plot is the conspiracy surrounding the central kingdom's filling of a power vacuum in the story. This thread is mostly followed by one POV of three where the character is essentially a spy/investigator/torturer, this character notices the sudden internal political civil war that occurs after a seemingly background character dies of old age. The king himself in the story is a dementia ridden walking corpse as he asserts no control over the kingdom other than to be a figurehead. Whilst the real rulers are his council and more specifically a puppet to the true power behind the entire kingdom.

Eventually the dots are connected at the end of the third book revealing the old magi of legendary esteem and insane longevity had been behind the curtain throughout the entire series orchestrating the war against the north, south, and the need to have the kingdom span to nearly every corner of the world. In case you truly never read this series this same character acts as a mentor and guide to one of the other protagonists who eventually replaces the monarchy and acts as another easily manipulated figurehead for the kingdom. He is also the reason for another character being alive in the first place as he called in a favor with the king of the north to not kill him.

This character doesn't stop being insanely powerful and influential just because of connections. No the author took it a step further and had the wizard's longevity play a role in accumulating unimaginable wealth and hiding it under a façade of a national bank with seemingly mysterious owners that gave out impossible loans to practically own the soul of any would be capitalist and finance impossible warfare projects.

And this is where the fantasy element makes him even more villainous and probably overpowered, as he is the first human magic user he is practically stronger than every human and most non humans as the fact remains every time he encountered trouble during his travels with the protagonists he could deal with almost all physical threats by simply blowing up heads and enhancing the physical attributes of one of the other characters. Towards the end he comes into possession of an artifact that can only be described as a fantasy nuke.

Above all this character can be seen as secretive as most people despite seeing his resemblance to statues of himself believe he is a fake and practically everyone in power underestimates him because he secluded himself for centuries allowing people to forget him from previous times he has shown up in the history of the kingdom. He also hides behind this reputation to make it seem as if he only has the best interests of the kingdom and protagonists when in reality he is a ruthless, arrogant, selfish tyrant. He killed his masters, he didn't even mourn the death of his apprentice and is a complete hypocrite who despite teaching honorable traits and knowledge, as well as constantly mentioning laws which must not be broken he murders, he cheats, and he breaks those very laws for what he believes to be the greater good and also justifies it as:
might = right

All in all a good example of a well done "secretive" villain in a medieval-esque setting.
 

NotaNuffian

This does spark joy.
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
3,631
Points
183
...I always have a diffcult time trying to understand something like a secretive and plotty villain, while I do get scheming people to your needs is much more cleaner than to gut the enemy by yourself, I always see them as something like a rubic goldberg machine, all it takes is one or two fuck up and the entire thing unravels itself. Then the Sword of Coming keeps having all these scheming foes getting their shits wrecked solely because:
a. They severely underestimate MC
b. The deus ex machina is so strong and that MC has backings, like... the power level between MC's backing and the schemer is like the sun versus an ant. It is not fun to watch all these self absorbed insufferable people getting smacked by even more self absorbed insufferable old prunes.

If you really want to make a scheming secretive villain, you will need to do a timeline and backbone, use a vague term to describe the guy/ gal, like a young wad, a simple looking noble, someone common. Wearing a cloak and mask is nice but for me it also screams "LOOK AT ME I AM SUSPICIOUS". Case and point, the weird worthless prince and his adventurer personification Silver.
 

TroubleFait

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
86
Points
58
Sheev Palpatine's main strength is that most people didn't know Darth Sidious even existed and those who did were so afraid of him they would never talk about it to anyone.

His second strength is that everyone loved him, and considered him trustworthy, so he talk with people from any position in the Senate, and had reach in unexpected places.
When he did a move to change the political situation, the change was most of the time unassuming at first, and nobody knew he was the one to make it.

He had a plan spanning for centuries, long before he got taken apprentice by Darth Plagueis. The plan had very solid bases, when a step didn't work the situation still was in his favor. He just had to do damage control, wait a little, and attempt something else to develop his plan.

At first he wasn't even the more powerful political figure, but he worked steadily to undermine the strong figures' power from the shadows, nobody suspected a thing.

So I'd say the most important point is that nobody could understand his actions and motives, because only him had a global picture in mind, even as spectators of the movies we didn't understand most of his plan, let alone the characters.
 
Top