Writing How do you plan a very long series?

[Paul_Tromba]

I create a set of characters and the world they're in first. Then go over who the villains are going to be and in what order they appear as well as an ending. This is pretty much the planning stage and I have planning templates but I don't like using them a lot since they can create repetitive scenarios. After that, I decide what the characters will do and just go wild. I can never measure how long an arc is going to take as they have to be either long in order to make sense or short because there isn't much to do. After that, I kind of just throw whatever I feel like into the mix at different points to make it more entertaining and also help the characters along. This isn't a good way of doing things but it's what I do and it works well.

 

[YS_og]

Yeah money-makers are pretty much firing from the hip but by authors who are experienced and well versed in that area (whether by skill of writing or skill in gaining the right resources, connections, I don't even know what gets them there in total tbh)

For myself, it's currently nearing the end of the 2nd arc (of 4 total) and am at 155k words so far. I DEFINITELY had and still use a plot progression map I drew up before I started writing. I have main characters, interactions, and events that happen with x's and y's written in between where something has to happen to progress one plot point to the next. Fleshing it out just happens as I write, and sometimes my progression map changes as I find better ways to do things up in the midst of writing, but overall I needed the plan. I got the goal/end in sight, and just keep writing to connect every dot I got lined up.

I realize the bad side to this potentially would be that the story might end up where the plot drives the story more than the characters. BUT what I do to make sure it's still organic with character progression is I always leave plenty of room for interaction-based evolution of the plot course as I write, only keeping significant large scale events in tact. I don't believe 100% character progressed plots are truly possible unless its romance, slice of life, etc.

 

[SailusGebel]

Some or even most Chinese web novels that have more than 1,000 chapters

The actual content that isn't a repetition of what was already said(written) is maybe 10% at most. So those 1,000 chapter-long novels are actually 100 chapters long at most. Take one of your favorite NEET Receives a Dating Sim Game Leveling System as an example. Though the amount of repetition there is somewhat lower than in usual cultivation novels, the constant worshipping of MC and unfunny recurring jokes allowed the author to increase the number of chapters and wordcount. I'm sure that if you take all the unnecessary junk, you will be left with 500\600 chapters instead of 800.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

I hope you realize through the comments that the authors who write these never-ending stories have no plan. They just write whatever they feel like until they eventually run out of steam and just drop the story.

If someone actually outlines a story it will have an end and it won't go on for years and years and years unless it has a coherent plan to stop. In other words these authors up here are not George RR Martin. They are all a bunch of hobbyists writing a diary of their characters day until they get tired of doing that.

There is no plan. They make it up as they go on. That's why their stories never finish.

Your thread reply made me remember a CN story my brother read. I think for at least a couple dozen of chapters @ 1k words average, the MC was only walking until each of the chapters ended. I think the only variation is that there's someone new he'll meet, or something new that he'll see along the way.

He dropped it.

In connection to this, we received contract offers from some sites that stipulates we write 1k-2k words @ prices we can't even live by, daily and with a salary cap per month. Instant reject, because, while I can do 4k-6k words per day, it's only when I'm 'on a roll'. In normal days, I don't even touch a notebook and a pen...and that lasts for a month or two! My bro is even worse @ 50 words a day...as long as he remembered he has a story in writing.

Also, the stories would be bought off our hands. They get all the rights once they pay us one time, and that's it. Another reason to reject.

And we don't like to be salary slaves.

 

[IdleYoungMaster]

Since I started writing just for the fun of it, I never completely planned it from start to finish. Though, I had it easier due to my novel's theme (Moving between 2 Worlds). I first list down the pattern (1st World--2nd World--1st World) before I started putting more details on each pattern. I basically expand each of the arc that I'm planning.

Knowing in what chapter your novel might end is important too. When I planned mine at 300-400 chapters, I held no bars behind. I just listed my ideas and planned ahead for around 2 arcs. In each arc, a goal must be achieved.

That's all. As for my characters, I always keep a note so that they won't go off-character. Being consistent is my goal, you see.

 

[BlackKnightX]

The actual content that isn't a repetition of what was already said(written) is maybe 10% at most. So those 1,000 chapter-long novels are actually 100 chapters long at most. Take one of your favorite NEET Receives a Dating Sim Game Leveling System as an example. Though the amount of repetition there is somewhat lower than in usual cultivation novels, the constant worshipping of MC and unfunny recurring jokes allowed the author to increase the number of chapters and wordcount. I'm sure that if you take all the unnecessary junk, you will be left with 500\600 chapters instead of 800.

Those constant worshiping and praises the mc gimmicks and the comedic routine interactions between the character are kind of the selling point of NEET Receives a Dating Sim Game Leveling System in the first place—well, not everyone’s gonna like it, obviously.

And also, about the chapter’s count, I heard that the series was kind of controversial in China and got into some trouble with the government, that’s why it’s dropped. If it‘s still continuing, I believe the series will surely exceed the 1,000+ mark.

Your thread reply made me remember a CN story my brother read. I think for at least a couple dozen of chapters @ 1k words average, the MC was only walking until each of the chapters ended. I think the only variation is that there's someone new he'll meet, or something new that he'll see along the way.

He dropped it.

In connection to this, we received contract offers from some sites that stipulates we write 1k-2k words @ prices we can't even live by, daily and with a salary cap per month. Instant reject, because, while I can do 4k-6k words per day, it's only when I'm 'on a roll'. In normal days, I don't even touch a notebook and a pen...and that lasts for a month or two! My bro is even worse @ 50 words a day...as long as he remembered he has a story in writing.

Also, the stories would be bought off our hands. They get all the rights once they pay us one time, and that's it. Another reason to reject.

And we don't like to be salary slaves.

Creating your own distribution channels is the best way to go if you wanna make money, but that’s not so easy to do, now is it~? Lol

 

[SailusGebel]

Those constant worshiping and praises the mc gimmicks and the comedic routine interactions between the character are kind of the selling point of NEET Receives a Dating Sim Game Leveling System in the first place—well, not everyone’s gonna like it, obviously.

And also, about the chapter’s count, I heard that the series was kind of controversial in China and got into some trouble with the government, that’s why it’s dropped. If it‘s still continuing, I believe the series will surely exceed the 1,000+ mark.

That's not the main point of what I said, though? I meant that it's easy to write a 1,000+ chapter if your plot barely progresses with each chapter. Everyone in this thread says how you technically should do it without cheating. But Chinese authors whom you mentioned usually cheat. NEET was an example of what I mean by cheating. By adding unnecessary, redundant, repetitive info\description in every chapter, you make your novel seem longer than it actually is.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Creating your own distribution channels is the best way to go if you wanna make money, but that’s not so easy to do, now is it~? Lol

Nah, I'm not one to monetize my work. I mean, it's good if it's considered to be worth 'making money'; however, I'm also fine publishing it for free.

One of my reasons is that, the moment money entered into my hobbies is the moment the audience could control me. And I prefer to write what I want instead of catering to all the whims of my audience.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Nah, I'm not one to monetize my work. I mean, it's good if it's considered to be worth 'making money'; however, I'm also fine publishing it for free.

One of my reasons is that, the moment money entered into my hobbies is the moment the audience could control me. And I prefer to write what I want instead of catering to all the whims of my audience.

Based. Do what makes you happy not what makes your readers happy. It's your hobby, not theirs.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Heck, even the old members here know that I'm giving free art whenever I'm available.

 

[Bartun]

I'm currently writing a story I've been thinking about for my whole life but the actual planning only took place after I started writing. As for the planning itself, I wrote down a "guide" with all the major plot points that I wanted to cover, adding the small details on the fly. Sometimes I figure out a better alternative to what I've originally planned and make the changes, trying to avoid plot holes but I try not to deviate too much from my guide.

I write +5000 words chapters, so I'm able to tell in detail the events and add worldbuilding through dialogue between characters. Still, I try to make it as interesting as possible but keep in mind the "goal" of the story. It has to have an appropriate end, and you should write towards it, to avoid dragging your story towards an "endless story".

Hope this helps!

 

[BlackKnightX]

That's not the main point of what I said, though? I meant that it's easy to write a 1,000+ chapter if your plot barely progresses with each chapter. Everyone in this thread says how you technically should do it without cheating. But Chinese authors whom you mentioned usually cheat. NEET was an example of what I mean by cheating. By adding unnecessary, redundant, repetitive info\description in every chapter, you make your novel seem longer than it actually is.

I have to agree with you on that one: you shouldn’t cheat by padding the contents with info-dumps and pointless descriptions to make the chapter seems longer. But that’s also the reason why I mentioned NEET.

I mentioned NEET because comparing to the other Chinese novels I’ve read, it seems to have far less info-dumping than the others. I feel like the expositions in NEET is usually interesting and relevant—I don’t think it’s pointless at all. But of course, that‘s a very subjective opinion.

**With that said, I’m totally biased since NEET is one of my favorite series and all~ lol**

I'm currently writing a story I've been thinking about for my whole life but the actual planning only took place after I started writing. As for the planning itself, I wrote down a "guide" with all the major plot points that I wanted to cover, adding the small details on the fly. Sometimes I figure out a better alternative to what I've originally planned and make the changes, trying to avoid plot holes but I try not to deviate too much from my guide.

I write +5000 words chapters, so I'm able to tell in detail the events and add worldbuilding through dialogue between characters. Still, I try to make it as interesting as possible but keep in mind the "goal" of the story. It has to have an appropriate end, and you should write towards it, to avoid dragging your story towards an "endless story".

Hope this helps!

View attachment 12112

This looks very interesting. I’ve done something similar before, but what I did wasn’t the chapter-by-chapter’s plot points, but rather the whole arc’s plot points.

Though, your method seems very organized and flexible—planning it loosely while also having an organized chapter’s count beforehand. It also gives the freedom to explore each plot points, giving it more details.

 

[SailusGebel]

I have to agree with you on that one: you shouldn’t cheat by padding the contents with info-dumps and pointless descriptions to make the chapter seems longer. But that’s also the reason why I mentioned NEET.

I mentioned NEET because comparing to the other Chinese novels I’ve read, it seems to have far less info-dumping than the others. I feel like the expositions in NEET is usually interesting and relevant—I don’t think it’s pointless at all. But of course, that‘s a very subjective opinion.

**With that said, I’m totally biased since NEET is one of my favorite series and all~ lol**

If you look back, I said that the amount of repetitions in NEET is lower than in usual Chinese novels. And don't mix up useless repetition with exposition and info-dumping. What I mean is; when every character and even people on the bus stop absolutely must praise MC and say how good-looking he is, how he looks better than idols, etc.

Let me ask you a question. Imagine that we have a chapter without a change, and we have MC and Chiaki in this chapter. They are flirting in the chapter. However, the chapter ends with a fadeaway, and there is no actual description of how they bonded. What would happen if we change the structure of the said chapter and add unique descriptions of their bonding and dialogues between them. The price? Part of those praises of the MC that are irrelevant, at least part of the useless 'joke dialogues' with a system, and so on. Will we benefit, and will the story become more interesting if we do a lot of such exchanges? And, of course, the author would do this rewrite, not us.

Will the comedic undertone suffer if we substitute dialogues with Chiaki with something new and unique? Will the romantic part benefit if we have actual descriptions of budding feelings instead of fadeaway scenes in favor of unnecessary worshiping of the mc? And I stress out unnecessary worshiping.

 

[SakeVision]

Write a 30k word outline. That's the way of the sith.

 

[RayneStorm]

Please do take note: while I have eleven (11) volumes behind me, planning it by volume happens only when I'm actually writing it. Only the overall story settings and the arc settings are done in advance.

Also, I impose on myself a deadline, usually from three weeks to a month, and I focus only on writing. And the edits after that limited to three times, unless necessary. This is to avoid prolonging my releases, like my first story which took a decade to finish a single 47k word volume. The benefit of this work style is that, I can reach writing up to 12k words in a single day (as long as I'm in my writing mode).

During the time I'm writing, I avoid playing online and offline games, watching anime, reading manga or documentaries, and any activity that might distract me from what I'm currently doing...even drawing.

Here's my 'cheat' sheet, my good man...

View attachment 12107

Hope it helps thee XD

11 volumes?! That's super impressive. How long is each volume?

So just like may others, I’ve been reading quite an amount of Chinese web novels, and most of them have 1000+ chapters. I do know about planning the story arc beforehand—break the long series into manageable chunks—but I’m still curious about the specific.

I’ve seen some of you authors have written more than 100 chapters, so I want to ask: how do you plan it specifically? Do you have character sheets? What about world-building? Do you outline each chapter? What about research?

In my first ever series, I only planned a bit before the real draft—only story beats and some brainstorming to freshen those beats out. After that, I started on the path of a true pantser. I think it’s more fun that way, but then I realized that if I want to write a very long series, I’ll need at least some loose plan.

So, I wanna see you guys’ process. If you would be so kind, please bestow upon me your insight! Thanks in advance~

While my book is only in the middle of the second arc, I do have the next 4 mostly solidified. Here are the steps I take:

1. I create a character with a lofty goal (like becoming a god)
2. I decide if they're going to accomplish it or not
3. I try to think of all the things that would prevent them from accomplishing that goal
4. Each obstacle is a story arc. So in I Will Become a God, book 1 involved Aahna escaping the castle and meeting 4 of the 5 other main characters. Book 2 involves them discovering more of the world and how it's changed and introducing one of the main elements, the cracks. Book 3 is kind of a side arc that results from a sort of failure at the end of book 2 where they have to find their way out of a place (no spoilers), book 4 involves the results of them getting very betrayed at the end of book 3 and book 5 is where we start to confront a lot of the antagonists while the characters get a powerup from the events of book 4
5. I only outline the book I'm writing but I make notes for the next plots. I outline with the 8 sequence method and keep it fairly loose. Book 3 of soul twins for instance will still follow the same goal that I made in step 4 but the execution will be different because of how book 2 ended up coming out
6. somehow find the motivation to write a story no one is reading. (this is by far the hardest step out of all)

It may seem like you won't get an entire arc worth of story from one obstacle but remember that you'll have other characters and their stories need to be told as well, whether by having them be allies or enemies along the way. In One Piece for instance, they're always making detours to help people or they get into trouble themselves and have to get out of it but they're still on the journey to get the One Piece.

I hope that helps

 

[2021]

Make ruff-story then make up rest on the way

 

[The_3rd_Book]

I once read a book that was really good, but after a long hiatus it was dropped. This was because after a while the author couldn't imagine what the main character would do. His writing style involved getting an idea and embodying his character and writing how he would act. If he had a story board of some sort he could have kept going. What a pity.

 

[Bartun]

I have to agree with you on that one: you shouldn’t cheat by padding the contents with info-dumps and pointless descriptions to make the chapter seems longer. But that’s also the reason why I mentioned NEET.

I mentioned NEET because comparing to the other Chinese novels I’ve read, it seems to have far less info-dumping than the others. I feel like the expositions in NEET is usually interesting and relevant—I don’t think it’s pointless at all. But of course, that‘s a very subjective opinion.

**With that said, I’m totally biased since NEET is one of my favorite series and all~ lol**

This looks very interesting. I’ve done something similar before, but what I did wasn’t the chapter-by-chapter’s plot points, but rather the whole arc’s plot points.

Though, your method seems very organized and flexible—planning it loosely while also having an organized chapter’s count beforehand. It also gives the freedom to explore each plot points, giving it more details.

I originally planned only the whole arc plot, with only the important plot points, but as I started writing, I realized I had the tendency to just "go with the flow" and just fill the gaps with filler, worldbuilding, and pointless conversations. I had to organize it chapter-by-chapter to focus on what is important.

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

Plan and arc. Then plan another

 

[unknownking]

let me be honest I haven't really put that much effort into worldbuilding and don't get me started when it comes to stuff such as arcs. I have a few broader ones but since I'm writing a book with five MCs who each have their own adventures 100 chapters are like 30 for each MC, (since two MCs are neglected by me).