How does the trending ranking function work? is it being abused?

Saintier

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
6
Points
41
So i been curious about the trending ranking and how it works, as of right now the top novel is dungeon harem which is a 3.5 rated novel while the all the next ones are all 4 or 5 stars, i find it really bizarre while i dont read harem life but i checked it out and found out that the author post 3 or 4 very short chapters with less than an hour of diference of eachother every day that feel like where cut from a single chapter while all most of the novel in the ranking are high word count one chapter weekly or biweekly, could it be that the author does this to increase views per chapter or something like that?, is it wrong in the first place?

I personally feel like this could be encouraging authors to dump out chapters to get on top of the ranking and stay relevant.
(Sorry for bad english)
 

FriendlyDragon

Your friendly local dragon~
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
112
Points
83
Some people abuse it. Other people just so happen to publish in a way that benefits from the system. That's why Tony (our queen) has decided to try and change it after a thread here became quite argumentative. Now the top 9 rotate everyday and prevents a story from being on trending two days in a row so that other stories can gain more exposure. This is a temporary change that will be replaced with a different system. When this new system will arrive is not determined.
 

Saintier

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
6
Points
41
Some people abuse it. Other people just so happen to publish in a way that benefits from the system. That's why Tony (our queen) has decided to try and change it after a thread here became quite argumentative. Now the top 9 rotate everyday and prevents a story from being on trending two days in a row so that other stories can gain more exposure. This is a temporary change that will be replaced with a different system. When this new system will arrive is not determined.
Oh i didn't know about that thread do you have a link?
 

Ace_Arriande

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
256
Points
133
Spicy. Just read up on that thread. Anyways, you could say that stories that are releasing short, frequent chapters are technically taking advantage of the system, but I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. It's just straight up fact that short, frequent releases is the best way to grow a web novel at the beginning of its life. For Royal Road, I always gave people the advice to split their chapters up into smaller parts for the first 30 days so that they could maximize their potential for RR's trending list. Most web novel readers care more about the frequency of chapters being released than the quality of them. Web novel readers are voracious and consume all stories in their path. For web novel authors who take longer to write, I suggest to them that they build up a large backlog of chapters so that they can focus on daily releases for the first month while keeping longer chapters. I'm doing that right now for one of my stories that's only on Patreon. I would normally do 30 1k word chapters for the first month of a story, but now I'm saving up until I have 30 3k word chapters since I don't want to split them up while still benefiting from daily releases.

Anyways, my point is that people care about frequency, so it's not wrong if authors want to give them that even if they might be knowingly taking advantage of the system. In a way, it's foolish not to take advantage of that fact if being successful is a web novel author's goal. And, even though this is good for gaining popularity at first, it doesn't last. In the end, a story still needs to be good enough to stand on more than being frequently released in order to stay relevant. The people who are only interested because of a story being frequently updated will be more than happy to jump ship to something else being frequently updated that might be slightly more interesting. And finally, no matter what system is implemented, people are going to take advantage of it and other people are going to be upset about that.

And just as a note, I do agree with trying to improve the current system (even if it ends up making my own series less visible), but I have no idea what to suggest to improve that which wouldn't just be ripping off another site's system.
 

Saintier

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
6
Points
41
Yeah that's really interesting to think about, would you say that posting like that affects the pacing of your stories?
 

Ace_Arriande

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
256
Points
133
It definitely does, but maybe not for everybody. I was doing daily releases for almost a year before finally switching over to weekly releases, and I (and quite a few of my readers) believe that there was a large improvement in quality, pacing, and satisfaction from having larger, weekly chapters over shorter, daily chapters. Daily and short releases are only really good for building up that initial momentum and getting onto lists. After that wears off, I think longer chapters with more time between them is the way to go.
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
That quality is exactly the reason why I only do a biweekly release schedule. Originally it was the limit I thought I could reliably do in the long run (turned out I was right). But when I first released on SH, I made the mistake of dropping a 14 chapter batch over the course of 30 minutes, each over 4k words.
The readers I got praised my work, but I hardly got any of them. It took another two or three weeks of regular releases at 3-4 chapters a week before my story reached the front page. That first time made my readership explode, and pretty much ever since then my story had become a top page regular.
It's nice to know why my story now flips between #1 and #17 every other day regardless of my release times, but honestly I really do hope that SH puts together a better system. It's really being abused, and I don't mind my story dropping a lot of points (as long as I stay on the front page (^_-)-☆).
My best thought would be to be based on unique readers over the course of 7 days. Of course, it would be hard on new series, but it would promote actual quality (as it doesn't care about release frequency as long as it's at least weekly).
Then to promote new stories, there can be a second "top newly reviewed series" list that uses new reader reviews to put less known but quality stories on the front page. It would have to automatically disqualify the top nine if not the top twenty trending stories to work, but it's my best idea.
To be honest, I've been a bit annoyed about slave harem regularly reaching the top list despite it's obvious abuse of the system. At the minimum, it should average out readers vs new chapters of the day to avoid abuse like this.
The current system doesn't do nearly enough to avoid such abuse, and the longer SH allows it, the more likely new stories that abuse it will show up.
Sorry, the abuse just really annoys me and I've ended up developing a habit of checking new trending series to see if they got there through abuse. Fortunately slave harem's the only story I've seen that exceeded one chapter a day on almost any occasion aside from opening day bulk releases and specials occasions.
 

Saintier

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
6
Points
41
Love your work:ROFLMAO:, it's kinda sad to think I probably wouldn't discovered your novel If you didn't have a backlog of chapters beforehand.
 

Azrie

Redemption Seeker
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
78
Points
73
Well, it will certainly be fixed sooner or later. I never really expected my story to reach trending. I personally think my story is of questionable quality despite how much I try. Not really good at writing. This new temporary fix for trending is definitely welcome in my opinion. Seeing it allows for new stories to reach trending instead of always. Ero dungeon and World keeper top 1 and 2 and then whatever comes next, seeing trending was stale with rarely new series showing up in it before the change.
 

Saintier

Active member
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
6
Points
41
Well, it will certainly be fixed sooner or later. I never really expected my story to reach trending. I personally think my story is of questionable quality despite how much I try. Not really good at writing. This new temporary fix for trending is definitely welcome in my opinion. Seeing it allows for new stories to reach trending instead of always. Ero dungeon and World keeper top 1 and 2 and then whatever comes next, seeing trending was stale with rarely new series showing up in it before the change.
lol it's so weird interacting with authors I read after years of reading Japanese and Chinese WNs in Novel Updates
 

Azrie

Redemption Seeker
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
78
Points
73
lol it's so weird interacting with authors I read after years of reading Japanese and Chinese WNs in Novel Updates
Well, I felt the same once I started writing and then ran into the author that made me want to write in the first place... Now we are good friends. :blob_cookie: I have read a few incredibly good novels that don't make it to trending here, unfortunately. I would certainly like to see them.
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
Hmm...I admit I hadn't done it too much, at least consciously. But now that I've realized that some of the people I'm talking here are authors rather than readers it's admittedly exciting.
I hope a lot of these faces become more and more familiar as our stories evolve!
That said, I'm not leaving you out either @Saintier ! Readers are love! Readers are life! \(^o^)/
Or at the very least, I wouldn't have ever hit SH's front page without readers (^_-)-☆
 

Ninetailed_Furball

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
137
Points
83
Wow, I spent a bit of time reading that thread, but I was referenced quite a lot. It's a bit embarrassing that people look so highly at my work, but it also makes me happy.
I don't know. This weird feeling of wanting to hide in a hole while at the same time jump for joy ( ゚ Д゚)
 

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,907
Points
153
It definitely does, but maybe not for everybody. I was doing daily releases for almost a year before finally switching over to weekly releases, and I (and quite a few of my readers) believe that there was a large improvement in quality, pacing, and satisfaction from having larger, weekly chapters over shorter, daily chapters. Daily and short releases are only really good for building up that initial momentum and getting onto lists. After that wears off, I think longer chapters with more time between them is the way to go.

I have managed to find a fairly good balance between number of releases and getting a strong readership. My trick is that I keep an absolute schedule and I inform my readers about my schedule in advance. It is not just the day I release the chapter that stays consistent, I also schedule the time of day for the release. If you do that, your regular readers will all be all over your new releases within the first 5 hours of posting, and the overall views you get over the day is enough to boost you in the ratings.

Since my series is strong enough to get boosted to the trending list by this release day boost, this also helps it out on the following day since the exposure of the trending list gives it some next day views. Also, since I now have a large number of chapters released, those new readers scored from the front-page exposure are likely still reading their way through the series the next release day as well.

I release 3 chapters a week, monday, wednsday, and friday. I have always done this since the 3rd week after I started my series, but now that the system has changed this just so happens to work exceedingly well with the new temporary system since there is a non-release day between the release days.

Well, it will certainly be fixed sooner or later. I never really expected my story to reach trending. I personally think my story is of questionable quality despite how much I try. Not really good at writing. This new temporary fix for trending is definitely welcome in my opinion. Seeing it allows for new stories to reach trending instead of always. Ero dungeon and World keeper top 1 and 2 and then whatever comes next, seeing trending was stale with rarely new series showing up in it before the change.

I have noticed, there are several little factors that make a series popular. It's not just the strength of your writing, it's also the title, the synopsis, the first paragraph of your story (specifically the first paragraph, it's called the "hook," and it has to be good,) your cover art, and of course your release rate. In the less cheap department, you also have the premise, the style, the genre, the tone, and the plot.

I watched your series for a little while. You actually did all of the other things spot-on perfect, and that made up for any weakness in your writing ability. Your premise, style, tone, and plot are all pretty good as well, which is why you have kept the readers who have already taken an interest. Basically, you've got all the other elements of good writing, it's just that you have a weak point in the area of the basic conventions. Now that you've attracted the attention, you can begin work on the basic conventions in order to polish it up to the rest of the standards and make your place on the top trending list feel more deserved.

EDIT: (The ironic thing is that the areas you are doing well in are the areas most people struggle the most on. This is fortunate. The basic conventions can be easily taught in a conventional manner. The other things like premise, style, tone, and plot are things that you need to know on a more instinctive level, and it is very hard for one author to teach another what makes those things good. It's very good that you have a firm handle on it already and only have to work on the area that's easiest to teach and learn.)
 

Chaaruzu_Corner

Young Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
76
Points
58
Haha I believe that it really just depends on the author. For example I'm pretty proud that I can do a 4k-5k chapter every one-two days in a span of two months. If not for school I'll probably would have churned out more but I get really lazy once I'm back here so yeah xD but yeah there are some that are insane and writes a 50k story in a week but the thing is that write at your own pace.

Lol that took a different are but back to the main topic, that's just how it is, that short chapters daily would definitely be more trendy. But I believe that readers would care about the quality in the end, so although it might suck that some are taking advantage of it, in the end readers would follow something that's quality, it might take a while but when you're catalogue has grown enough then readers would notice. It be gradual and not as exciting to see on your stats but just write the way you want to and not really bother with the tabs, (unless if it's your job)
 

thenewscifi

New member
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
8
Points
3
i do think that some adjustments do need to be addressed. For instance in the 'similar series' listings for my fiction, the system appears to be more interested in putting up series that are the trending or popular instead of ones that are in anyway similar to my fiction. Maybe 1 or two out of the 5 series shown offer anything remotely like whatever my particular fiction is about. in addition, there seems to be a number of series which are no longer being updated are highly listed, and it would seem to me that a site devoted to serial fiction should weigh things towards live series as opposed to those which are completed or abandoned.
 
Last edited:
Top