How to properly develop soft magic.

COLOC_Kid

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soft magic is basically chaotic magic with no rules. It can do anything but it usually is the thing that made the bad guy in the beginning. Take Game of Thrones for example, magic made the night king. The opposite is hard magic take Avatar for example it's explained and you know what it can and can't do. Hard magic is a tool not an independent entity. My question is how have you or how do you think you should develop soft magic.
 
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ah i see. never knew there was a difference between soft and hard magic. i thought it was just magic.
 

OvidLemma

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Following some complicated set of rules for magic is fine if you really want to do that, but I almost never do. The most important thing when inventing a magic system is to be consistent. Decide what magic can and cannot do and how it's done, and then follow the rules you've invented - if you break the rules (without a really good reason/explanation), then you'll just come across as a poor storyteller.

In your post, you describe soft magic as being "basically chaotic magic with no rules", but, really, it's more often a sort of magic with rules that we (the reader) don't know. There's got to be some sort of internal logic to the magic or reasoning behind the magic, or else it will come across as you, the author, just making random stuff up and throwing it at the reader instead of weaving it into the narrative.
 

TroubleFait

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Star Wars develops its soft magic by introducing it little by little into the story.
At the beginning you aren't even aware of its existence, and as the story progresses you are exposed to more and more of its effects.
 

OvidLemma

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I almost always write soft magic systems, though sometimes they harden up a bit as the story progresses and I figure out how to add to the internal logic, limitations, and abilities of that magic. For instance, my novel, A Princess of Alfheim has a pretty soft magic system that the MC gradually learns as the story progresses. Rather than explaining the system to readers, I show them Laeanna's progress in magic and compare it to the sorts of things that beginner, typical, and master mages are capable of, as well as providing instruction from other characters and texts that she's read. Example:
Surburrus nodded. "You have been attempting to summon the lost aspects of your soul. A novel idea, but I fear it will not work. But this other idea of bridging mortal mind with soul may yet prove true. Tell me, princess, can you repeat this motion for me?" His hands flickered in a dizzying array of motions, some of them anatomically improbable. Despite his mostly-faun lower body, the wizard had the deft hands of a fae.

"Your skill was always wasted on you, girl. Having to earn it back will be a good experience, I'd wager. You will repeat that very pattern and direct it at the book. If any scintilla of your knowledge remains, the divine sight will unlock the book… indeed, any book and any spoken language… to your comprehension. Now… show me."

I repeated the motion and directed… what? I directed my concentration, the vague sense of will, of energy, that rose up within me. I felt it pulse just as the motion completed, and I glanced to the book, expecting the same gibberish mishmash characters as before. Instead, the cover read: “Ten exercises for beginning mages,” I said.

"I already recited the title to you, princess. Read the first page."

"Almost anybody can learn magic, but even the greatest wizard needs training to get started. Inside of you, there is a universe of magical energy waiting to be unlocked, and you must learn to channel it. If one day you wish to be a great hero, a renowned scholar, or a mysterious sorceress, you must first learn to harness the energies within you and direct them so that you can shape the world. Turn the page to exercise one to begin your journey!"
 

Agentt

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The best way was used by Kirby.
They used loading screens to explain the pasts of villains, showing how they too were once good but the dark dimension got hold of them.
So, you can use mob characters to do the
He wasn't like this before
There was once a time, when all was good
Everything changed, when the fire nation attacked
 

KyoruS

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The way I did soft magic is to focus more on the feel of using magic. "The flow of mana within from myself circulates itself to my hand where a fireball ignites".
 

Agentt

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The way I did soft magic is to focus more on the feel of using magic. "The flow of mana within from myself circulates itself to my hand where a fireball ignites".
That's a good meathod but it would be troublesome to explain its effects when it comes to why the villian is evil.
 

KyoruS

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That's a good meathod but it would be troublesome to explain its effects when it comes to why the villian is evil.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but from my understanding, most villains have a completely different view than the MC, which most of the time are usually immoral. Magic is just a means to achieve the villain's goals that are evil/immoral, not as the definition of evil.
 

Reisinling

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Decide on the goal of your writing. If you want to introduce some rules, and then show how awesome your character is by breaking them, I think it should have longer period of setup and payoff, if you just introduce rule and immediately or nearly immediately break it, it just seems silly. Unless that's the point of the story, to make the MC look like overpowered sense breaking genius (like Dragon Ball or One Punch man).

Hard systems seem to appeal more to certain type of reader, the type that actually pays attentions and makes character relations charts and stuff :D Most people don't care, but there is a value in paying attention to unserved market segments... or you know, you just want to write this type of story :)

But then what the hell do I know, I fumbled the system in my novel enough I now have to go through chapters and fix shit.
 

Agentt

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I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but from my understanding, most villains have a completely different view than the MC, which most of the time are usually immoral. Magic is just a means to achieve the villain's goals that are evil/immoral, not as the definition of evil.
Ah, sorry. I misunderstood. Ussually a villian with soft magic means these two things
1. He is pure evil. He has no goals other than to kill every single person in this world.
2. He is pure evil because he uses soft magic, you know the classic,
'The power was too great for him to handle' types.
 

COLOC_Kid

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Ah, sorry. I misunderstood. Ussually a villian with soft magic means these two things
1. He is pure evil. He has no goals other than to kill every single person in this world.
2. He is pure evil because he uses soft magic, you know the classic,
'The power was too great for him to handle' types.
3. they were created by someone using soft magic but got out of control and fufilled their purpose of killing humans but decided to kill everything else as well.
 

Agentt

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3. they were created by someone using soft magic but got out of control and fufilled their purpose of killing humans but decided to kill everything else as well.
Oh, yeah, I forgot those. Don't forget to put a
Muahahahah too
 

OvidLemma

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Ah, sorry. I misunderstood. Ussually a villian with soft magic means these two things
1. He is pure evil. He has no goals other than to kill every single person in this world.
2. He is pure evil because he uses soft magic, you know the classic,
'The power was too great for him to handle' types.
I don't think that's true - in a soft magic system, you have just as many reasons for somebody to be evil as in any other piece of fiction. There's no reason an evil sorcerer can't be motivated by political ambitions, fanatical ideology, mental illness, having a dysfunctional upbringing, corruption by a magical parasite, or simply staring into the maw of chaos for a bit too long. You can literally invent any reason you like for the antagonist to be evil because you have a soft magic system. You get to make up the rule and then work the villain's origin/motivations around it.
 

witch_sorrowful

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As with anything else, the focus must be the story. Hard magic systems are great - they have mechanics, and they have effects on their environment, and exploration of these magic systems can propel the story onward. A very good Hard Magic System (HMS) will take the plot and mix it up, showing the reader how its effects are felt in the universe it inhabits. But HMS are mostly independent of plot - your character development hardly ever takes place because of it.

Soft Magic Systems (SMS) are usually interventions/motivations into the story. They are there to help the story along, and have to be necessarily integrated into the plot no matter what.

As examples
In Avatar, the Legend of Aang, the main Mag Sys is HMS. But the character develops in other important events which although tied to his "fate", which is a consequence of the HMS, occur independently and are dealt with in different ways apart from the HMS. Including the awesome deus ex machina involved.

Example for a story that mixes HMS into plot - Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. The whole character development is based around the discovery of the HMS.

Example SMS - in Lord of the Rings, the Ring is a magical object which is the reason for the plot to exist. We don't know exactly what the power is, but the power is now there in front of our characters, and we want to see what happens. We see a minimal exposition as to what the Ring can do to powerful individuals at the end of the First Part (Lothlorien, Galadriel shows that in the chapter, the Mirror of Galadriel). But nothing else. The rest is up to our nice protags.

Similarly, in LOTR, Gandalf comes back after fighting the Balrog. How? He is sent back by a mysterious power. This is again a plot device that is used to make our party fall on hard times leading to their separation.

In Harry Potter, the spells are never shown how exactly they do their magic. We know they need a wand (Plot Device in the 1st book, and last book especially), and need to say spells and cast them (plot devices in almost everything, but specifically this is important in 3rd Book), and they are used to drive the story forward. Each arc is based on some aspect of the SMS, which is a structured SMS, and uses it inside the Plot. Characters are being developed as they grapple with their system. There is a "fate" hanging on the MC due to the SMS.

Of course, you can draw about 300 parallels from Harry Potter to many, many HERO concept stuff. Star Wars, for example.

If you look into folklore, you'll find more and more SMSs. Der Ring des Niebelungen is a good concept study here.
 

Alienix

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Hmm, you are right. Soft magic is usually the major problem that makes plot in most stories. In Joe Abercombie's First Law, in the Book of Fallen too, etc. but most of them have one similar thing. they explain a little to none about the soft magic system in the story at first

So if you are asking about how you should develop soft magic in a story, I agree with TroubleFaith. You have to develop it slowly. Maybe you can show the big impact of what soft magic has done in your story, and then proceeds with plot. as the story goes on, you can introduce it to audiences later maybe as a tool for fighting the negative impact of the soft magic by the villainous side.
 

COLOC_Kid

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Hmm, you are right. Soft magic is usually the major problem that makes plot in most stories. In Joe Abercombie's First Law, in the Book of Fallen too, etc. but most of them have one similar thing. they explain a little to none about the soft magic system in the story at first

So if you are asking about how you should develop soft magic in a story, I agree with TroubleFaith. You have to develop it slowly. Maybe you can show the big impact of what soft magic has done in your story, and then proceeds with plot. as the story goes on, you can introduce it to audiences later maybe as a tool for fighting the negative impact of the soft magic by the villainous side.
nice I started introducing eldritch monsters that were created by magic gone awry.
 

BenJepheneT

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Star Wars develops its soft magic by introducing it little by little into the story.
At the beginning you aren't even aware of its existence, and as the story progresses you are exposed to more and more of its effects.
I always wished Star Wars had a hard magic system, because somewhere down the line, the writers took the virtue of having creative freedom over force powers and ran a mile and a half too far with it.

HOW DID KYLO PULL THAT NECKLACE FROM NOWHERE?! HOW?! BITCH HAD IT AROUND HER NECK HALFWAY ACROSS SPACE AND THE CUNT JUST FORCE YANKED IT HOW THE FUCK?! WHERE IS THAT SHOWN? WHY COULDN'T HE DO IT WHEN IT'S USEFUL?! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 

WasatchWind

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Oh.. I smell Brandon Sanderson's fan too XD. Sadly cant think of the solution of your problem atm. Im gonna watch over this thread tho to see other people of culture's answers
That fan is here...
soft magic is basically chaotic magic with no rules. It can do anything but it usually is the thing that made the bad guy in the beginning. Take Game of Thrones for example, magic made the night king. The opposite is hard magic take Avatar for example it's explained and you know what it can and can't do. Hard magic is a tool not an independent entity. My question is how have you or how do you think you should develop soft magic.

First - hard or soft magic - one chooses hard magic because you probably want emphasis on things like combat and tension. You want a clear idea of how difficult a fight is - in Mistborn, you know Vin is having a difficult time because she has run out of pewter, the metal she swallows to give her strength.

In soft magic however, the main objective is usually creating wonder. In Lord of the Rings, it is not very clearly explained what Gandalf can do, or what the magical creatures can do. But because there is not a ton of set in stone rules for it, we are able to get great scenes like him confronting the balrog.

However you construct your magic system though, it will require rules of some kind. Harry Potter I consider to have a softer magic system, but there is the fairly consistent rule that to be a good spellcaster, you have to be more skilled. In addition to this, you can really mix the "realism" of your magic to varying degrees. You can make your magic a near science, or you can have it be based on the power of imagination, or anything in between.

All that matters to the reader is that it is interesting, and consistent enough for them to understand - or if they don't understand, at least that they aren't questioning "why can't they do this thing they did before to solve this problem?"

So, I joke about it, but I find it would be remiss to neglect Sanderson's laws of magic here.

1 An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.

"If characters (especially viewpoint characters) solve a problem by use of magic, the reader should be made to understand how that magic works. Otherwise, the magic can constitute a deus ex machina.

Ideally, the magic is explained to the reader before it is used to resolve a conflict. Much like a sword or a large sum of money, magic is a useful tool. Understanding the tools available to a character helps the reader understand the character's actions. It avoids questions like, "Where did he get that?" or "How did he do that?"

"Mysterious magic" (or "soft magic"), which has no clearly defined rules, should, in genre fantasy, not solve problems, although it may create them. Soft magic in genre fantasy is usually used to create a sense of awe and wonder, and the workings of it aren't known to the reader and most characters. Brandon has said that J.R.R. Tolkien and George R.R Martin's use of magic is a good example of a soft magic system.

"Hard magic" on the other hand has rules explicitly described by the author, meaning that the reader can understand the magic so that solving problems with it doesn't seem to "mystically make everything better". Instead, it's the characters' wit and experience that solves the problems. This makes magic a tool which can be used to solve problems and enhance the story. L.E. Modesitt Jr. and Melanie Rawn, according to Brandon, write in this way.

The middle ground is a situation where the reader knows some of the limits and possibilities of the magic but doesn't understand its workings. Brandon has cited the magic in J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter series as a great example."

2 The limitations of a magic system are more interesting than its capabilities. What the magic can't do is more interesting than what it can.

"Great limitations on magic systems will do many things, they will for example create struggle. It'll make characters work for their goals and if the magic system is limited it’ll make the writer and the character have to be more clever. Sanderson offers his own Allomantic Steel and Iron as examples of this: They allow you telekinesis with a few limitations, the characters can only push or pull directly away or toward themselves and the objects must be made of metal. This forces characters to work harder and encourages better writing.

An excellent magic system will also create tension, as the outcome is not obvious and makes the whole scene appear more dramatic. For example: Superman fighting an enemy is not very tense. But Superman fighting an enemy with Kryptonite is a lot more tense.

It can also create depth in the characters and the system alike. For example: A character whose power is flight. But impose a limitation where she can only fly when she is happy. Her mood and ability to fly are both now directly tied into the plot.

Limitations on what the magic can do can be simple - can't use when too tired, can only be used in the sunlight- but more complex ones are more interesting. Sanderson gives us an example from David Eddings' The Belgariad: the "Will and the Word". A nearly limitless magic with nigh infinite power. You can make just about anything but cannot unmake or destroy. This limitation shapes the magic as a whole and tells the reader something of the magic's very nature."

weaknesses and costs​

"Weaknesses and costs alike make a magic system more interesting. Weaknesses are generally harder to keep sensible and the kryptonite example has become a staple of easy storytelling. Brandon encourages writers to make up more interesting weaknesses than "Lose powers if x". Costs on the other hand are a great way of limiting a character and the use of the magic. In the Wheel of Time series the cost is that the users of the magic will slowly go insane. Although the metals in Mistborn and the Stormlight in The Stormlight Archive may sound like costs, they are actually limitations. Metals and Stormlight aren’t crucial to the characters or the plot outside of magic, and thus only limit the abilities of the user."



Sanderson's Third Law

Expand on what you have already, before you add something new.
"A brilliant magic system for a book is less often one with a thousand different powers and abilities -- and is more often a magic system with relatively few powers that the author has considered in depth."

Extrapolation​

It is important to consider the effects that a magic will have on a world. If for example your magic can create food out of thin air, what will that cause, what will happen? How will it affect trade, politics, warfare, education and social norms? Asking these questions and working out what effects your magic system will add depth to your world.

Interconnection​

Another important point is to be interconnected. Try to make the powers of a character seem like a coherent whole rather than separate abilities. In Mistborn, for example, magics were designed to be what thieves would want and then the powers named accordingly. Tying your powers together thematically is an important part of worldbuilding and expands the world, rather than adding to it.

Streamlining​

Streamlining is also important in any magic system. Combining pre-existing magics and powers is often better than adding new ones. A different culture reacting to a magic entirely differently than what has been shown so far, is often better than a culture with its own unrelated magic system. For example: a simple heat-generating magic may be used by different cultures in very different ways. A warlike culture might use it for assault or for forging weapons, a peaceful one for heating and preparing food, for merchants for making products, nomads for powering transportation and so on.

Remember, however, not to streamline too far as that will make the single culture or character seem too packed and might decrease their plausibility.

Sanderson's Zeroth Law​

Err on the side of AWESOME.

Brandon has, in his online lectures, described his ultimate rule as that of making magic "awesome" (in the colloquial sense), and further implied that said "awesomeness" takes precedence over exact obedience to the other three laws.[2]

(This refers to Isaac Asimov's Zeroth Law of his Three Laws of Robotics.)



Did I just wholesale copy those from the coppermind? (the Brandon Sanderson wiki) Yes. Yes I did. I was tired of paraphrasing, and everything in the article is awesome. I hope that if you took the time to read it all you found it helpful. Particularly with soft magic, remember the zeroth law!
 
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