How to Stop a Strong Character from Becoming a Mary Sue

[Story_Marc]

I approach this from another angle, explaining how things can go wrong and why, and what to be careful of when writing strong, wish-fulfillment characters.

 

[SailusGebel]

Thank you!

 

[Peter3135566]

Might not realy help me given i dont write and dont plan on writing, but it has suprizingly good fit with meny characters that i like or that annoy me without eny one reason i can point at... ty!

 

[ZukoMee]

Wasn't the male version of this supposed to be called Gary Stu? Why is Mary Sue suddenly becoming the catch-all term?

Not making a thing of it. I'm just genuinely curious. I've noticed Gary Stu has kind of vanished for the most part. Even when speaking of the male counterpart, I've noticed people use Mary Sue exclusively.

Mary Sue reigns alone and supreme now. May her rule be bloody, chaotic, and maybe a little tiny bit prosperous.

 

[Nolff]

I approach this from another angle, explaining how things can go wrong and why, and what to be careful of when writing strong, wish-fulfillment characters.

Who the hell is Mary Sue?

I only know Mary Poppins'.

 

[Kenjona]

Wasn't the male version of this supposed to be called Gary Stu? Why is Mary Sue suddenly becoming the catch-all term?

Not making a thing of it. I'm just genuinely curious. I've noticed Gary Stu has kind of vanished for the most part. Even when speaking of the male counterpart, I've noticed people use Mary Sue exclusively.

Mary Sue reigns alone and supreme now. May her rule be bloody, chaotic, and maybe a little tiny bit prosperous.

I can think of some good and some good/bad and some bad reasons. But the easiest? It is because Mary Sue rolls of the tongue better than Gary Stue and it has an origin from back in the 1970's, written by someone writing Trekkie fan fiction. May young Lt. Mary Sue live long and prosper, oh wait that's right she died.

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Who the hell is Mary Sue?

I only know Mary Poppins'.

TV Tropes: Mary Sue <-- Link

"...the term "Mary Sue" is generally slapped on a character who is important in the story, possesses unusual physical traits, and has an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature."

"...Over time, a male variant started to see use. Marty Stu (also known as Gary Stu, for those who prefer rhyme to alliteration) wasn't really that much different from Mary. Also an Author Avatar, it usually had implications of being a male crew member that tended to completely outshine established canon members in their roles and often become the best starship captain, ever. See The Ace. Since the female characters of Star Trek were all in secondary roles at best, the relationship angle was generally disregarded as being any sort of qualifier. Because of the not-entirely-unjustified perception that Most Fanfic Writers Are Girls, Marty Stu didn't really catch on for a long time."

 

[Premier]

Gary Stu is redundant, it only came about because some people saltily insisted only women could be a Mary Sue. Everyone knows what Mary Sue means, there's no confusion if they're referring to a male character.

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

Wasn't the male version of this supposed to be called Gary Stu? Why is Mary Sue suddenly becoming the catch-all term?

Not making a thing of it. I'm just genuinely curious. I've noticed Gary Stu has kind of vanished for the most part. Even when speaking of the male counterpart, I've noticed people use Mary Sue exclusively.

Mary Sue reigns alone and supreme now. May her rule be bloody, chaotic, and maybe a little tiny bit prosperous.

Simply because Mary Sue sounds much better. The differentiation between male and female is in this case superfluous, because what matters is the type of character, and the gender is irrelevant.

 

[Story_Marc]

I can think of some good and some good/bad and some bad reasons. But the easiest? It is because Mary Sue rolls of the tongue better than Gary Stue and it has an origin from back in the 1970's, written by someone writing Trekkie fan fiction. May young Lt. Mary Sue live long and prosper, oh wait that's right she died.

Lt. Mary Sue started as a parody character to emphasize how flawed these characters are. So, the origins was, ironically, a Parody Sue.

But yeah, Gary Stu and all that is redundant. I'm not going to waste my time going through shifting terminology for those who get upset about gender-related stuff. Yes, male characters can still fit into it. I used four male characters with traits that can lead to such accusations for that exact reason. And I'm certain I can easily find more if I dig deeper into cultivation novels, for example.

That said, female characters like that are aplenty, too, and will always be. Making mistakes while writing isn't gender-exclusive and I don't coddle.

 

[Slay]

And what's wrong with a Mary Sue?

 

[Tsuruya]

And what's wrong with a Mary Sue?

They become unrelatable
It gives a feeling of "fakeness"

Hence contradictory to the ultimate realm of writing/reading/gaming : IMMERSION (Escapism)

I approach this from another angle, explaining how things can go wrong and why, and what to be careful of when writing strong, wish-fulfillment characters.

TLDR version of mine :




Give a weakness to the "perfect character". Done explanation.

DBZ Goku = dumb/glutton/0 EQ/naive
Onepunch = Poor, Stupid, Dense, Low emotions, Angry about baldness
Pokemon Ash (compared to "perfect Red") = Childish, Dumb, Emotional, 0 eq, Dense ULTRA DENSE like A BLACK HOLE (would have gotten dozens of girls, movie girls included, with even female pokemons)
Madoka Homura = Perfection, but everything is fake and weak self inside
Tony Stark = Alcoholism, Dandy, Money waster, Emotional, Teasing jokes
Mushoku Tensei = Perfect second life, but in fact, insecure, rash, arrogant, perverted, human-like (spoiler : human-like evilness from old future self in first timeline) (weak and never will become the strongest)
Kill la kill FMC Matoi = tomboy, perverted plot/jokes on her, rash, often complaining/angry, emotional
Saber = glutton
Spy family Yor = weak when drunk, clumsy, low EQ
Mikasa Attack titan = low EQ, cold to everyone, love brained idiot, emotionless face
Black lagoon FMC = smoke, alcoholic, ruthless, gambler, gun maniac, rude
Misaka mikoto = tomboy, very emotionally annoying, always angry against MC
----
Even happens in chinese novels.
And well, one of the most memorable one is : https://www.novelupdates.com/series/supreme-swordsman-of-the-nine-heavens/

Masterpiece "growth" novel
MC is quite a perfect "back in time" MC
Hard working, big IQ, EQ, cunning, not dense, heroic, kind, calm, loving, doesnt do BS moves, responsible, etc (just like some well written MCs in old novels)

So author, added this "joking" flaw : his feet ....... have a .......... problem
To the point that when he is very op far later. And possessing the repaired ultimate sword of the world.
He needs to use mega rare elixir herbs, just to foot bath and remove the ....... of his feet. If not, his "(saved) wife" wont let him sleep with him.

 

[Tsuruya]

cough7

(i even forgot i replied here with this big post)

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Wasn't the male version of this supposed to be called Gary Stu? Why is Mary Sue suddenly becoming the catch-all term?

Not making a thing of it. I'm just genuinely curious. I've noticed Gary Stu has kind of vanished for the most part. Even when speaking of the male counterpart, I've noticed people use Mary Sue exclusively.

Mary Sue reigns alone and supreme now. May her rule be bloody, chaotic, and maybe a little tiny bit prosperous.

I've seen Gary Stu or, more often, Larry Stu.