Humiliating the Main Character for a character Growth

[greyblob]

Even though I want to put ten more, I can only put one like. Painful...

since we're on the subject, I despise Re:Zero with all my heart. If I could wipe my memory of that godforsaken anime, I would do it.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Fairy Tail. Fuck Fairy Tail and its friendship power BS.

Looking for good writing in Fairy Tail is like looking for good characters/developments in the standard us sitcom. They are meant to be "brain off, enjoy" stories so - according to the last age-poll on here - most of us are way out the target audience.

That said, I agree with all of my heart. Fairy Tail took the usual "friendship power-up" and turned it to 11, found it boring, and turned it to 111. And sadly, thanks to its financial success, it also gets copied a lot...

 

[SailusGebel]

since we're on the subject, I despise Re:Zero with all my heart. If I could wipe my memory of that godforsaken anime, I would do it.

Can't say I despise it, but I don't understand what's so good about it.

 

[EternalSunset0]

Can't say I despise it, but I don't understand what's so good about it.

A lot of people got in the hype train because the protagonist suffers a lot instead of being an OP Isekai protag. And deaths. And "dark"

"OMG main characters die?!" is an easy way to get noticed and have a sizable amount of popularity right off the bat. See: Akame ga Kill

On the topic of Fairy Tail though, I think the first few arcs are good. I won't defend it to death, but I genuinely enjoyed the first few arcs. It's when they did the short timeskip that things went to shit. It's also around that point where the pre-existing nakama power got dialed up even more, and super hyped villains start getting oneshotted by the unlikeliest of people or in one panel.

Arc villains also start losing to super-charged standard punches or shit too.

 

[GodlyKamui]

A lot of people got in the hype train because the protagonist suffers a lot instead of being an OP Isekai protag. And deaths. And "dark"

"OMG main characters die?!" is an easy way to get noticed and have a sizable amount of popularity right off the bat. See: Akame ga Kill

On the topic of Fairy Tail though, I think the first few arcs are good. I won't defend it to death, but I genuinely enjoyed the first few arcs. It's when they did the short timeskip that things went to shit. It's also around that point where the pre-existing nakama power got dialed up even more, and super hyped villains start getting oneshotted by the unlikeliest of people or in one panel.

Arc villains also start losing to super-charged standard punches or shit too.

So you now know what to do to reach trending folks, kill your MC in chapter 1!

 

[SailusGebel]

A lot of people got in the hype train because the protagonist suffers a lot instead of being an OP Isekai protag. And deaths. And "dark"

"OMG main characters die?!" is an easy way to get noticed and have a sizable amount of popularity right off the bat. See: Akame ga Kill

I think the reason Re:Zero got popular is closer to Nier Automata's case. Waifu. As for Akame ga Kill, manga wasn't that popular when it only started.

 

[EternalSunset0]

So you now know what to do to reach trending folks, kill your MC in chapter 1!

Hey I never said it's a surefire road to success but in anime, it seems to be a thing. You just have to pretend that "hey guise look my protags do not hab plot armor!" and it can get people talking early.

I think the reason Re:Zero got popular is closer to Nier Automata's case. Waifu. As for Akame ga Kill, manga wasn't that popular when it only started.

Oh the waifus are certainly a factor.

 

[LostLibrarian]

See: Akame ga Kill

And it's the same studio as Akame ga Kill and Steins;Gate.
So it was less "Oh, they do Re:Zero" and instead "Oh, we get another one like these...".

That said, Re:Zero also did a lot of things right when it came to production quality and pacing, character designs, and the like. It ticks a lot of boxes so that (nearly) "everybody can find something in it somewhere". And they get "to the good stuff" fast without making it too rushed.
Just look at the amount of rem/ram and emilia clones in the following years. It was nearly as bad as the usual Kirito-face for isekai...

So you now know what to do to reach trending folks, kill your MC in chapter 1!

It's "make them suffer in episode 1" and "kill them in episode 1/5"...

 

[GodlyKamui]

And it's the same studio as Akame ga Kill and Steins;Gate.
So it was less "Oh, they do Re:Zero" and instead "Oh, we get another one like these...".

That said, Re:Zero also did a lot of things right when it came to production quality and pacing, character designs, and the like. It ticks a lot of boxes so that (nearly) "everybody can find something in it somewhere". And they get "to the good stuff" fast without making it too rushed.
Just look at the amount of rem/ram and emilia clones in the following years. It was nearly as bad as the usual Kirito-face for isekai...


It's "make them suffer in episode 1" and "kill them in episode 1/5"...

Or how about killing MC in a side chapter just to rub more salt into the wound?

 

[NotaNuffian]

Looking for good writing in Fairy Tail is like looking for good characters/developments in the standard us sitcom. They are meant to be "brain off, enjoy" stories so - according to the last age-poll on here - most of us are way out the target audience.

That said, I agree with all of my heart. Fairy Tail took the usual "friendship power-up" and turned it to 11, found it boring, and turned it to 111. And sadly, thanks to its financial success, it also gets copied a lot...

You know what, I hated past me from enjoying Fairy Tail, I also hated my past self from defending Sword Art Online. I can understand my past self but I always find the cringe as I relive the moment I enjoyed these works.

Those were simplier times, a more backwards time if I must add.

Can't say I despise it, but I don't understand what's so good about it.

It is not good and I felt that it was a personal attack to me the reader. Mushoku Tensei shows us a terrible man, he is the lowest point of anyone's life and a living scum, something that I can still distance myself to and thus, enjoy as he grows up into a proper person.

Subaru felt like a parody of me and most of the weeb community; pathetic, spineless and basically a useless piece of society with only detrimental effects like bawling and yelling like an insufferable manchild. The moments of him getting mocked, tortured and laughed upon felt like tight slaps on my face as I read the novel.

A lot of people got in the hype train because the protagonist suffers a lot instead of being an OP Isekai protag. And deaths. And "dark"

"OMG main characters die?!" is an easy way to get noticed and have a sizable amount of popularity right off the bat. See: Akame ga Kill

On the topic of Fairy Tail though, I think the first few arcs are good. I won't defend it to death, but I genuinely enjoyed the first few arcs. It's when they did the short timeskip that things went to shit. It's also around that point where the pre-existing nakama power got dialed up even more, and super hyped villains start getting oneshotted by the unlikeliest of people or in one panel.

Arc villains also start losing to super-charged standard punches or shit too.

Akame ga Kill... I kinda read it for Esdeath only... and stopped after feeling the satisfaction of the death of the minister's son. The entire series can be summarized into "empire bad, noble bad, humans who have power are shit." And I hated it. I laughed and cried abit when the three idiot girls who thought that the city will grant them a good life, only to have their futures ruined. Laughed because of how overdramatic it is. Cried because I know somewhere in the world, it is true.

The manga ending feels like shit. The anime is even worse.

I think the reason Re:Zero got popular is closer to Nier Automata's case. Waifu. As for Akame ga Kill, manga wasn't that popular when it only started.

...what waifu? The only waifu that came out to me is the crazy bitch witch.

I crave motherly and elder sisterly love.

 

[SailusGebel]

You know what, I hated past me from enjoying Fairy Tail, I also hated my past self from defending Sword Art Online. I can understand my past self but I always find the cringe as I relive the moment I enjoyed these works.

Those were simplier times, a more backwards time if I must add.

It is not good and I felt that it was a personal attack to me the reader. Mushoku Tensei shows us a terrible man, he is the lowest point of anyone's life and a living scum, something that I can still distance myself to and thus, enjoy as he grows up into a proper person.

Subaru felt like a parody of me and most of the weeb community; pathetic, spineless and basically a useless piece of society with only detrimental effects like bawling and yelling like an insufferable manchild. The moments of him getting mocked, tortured and laughed upon felt like tight slaps on my face as I read the novel.


Akame ga Kill... I kinda read it for Esdeath only... and stopped after feeling the satisfaction of the death of the minister's son. The entire series can be summarized into "empire bad, noble bad, humans who have power are shit." And I hated it. I laughed and cried abit when the three idiot girls who thought that the city will grant them a good life, only to have their futures ruined. Laughed because of how overdramatic it is. Cried because I know somewhere in the world, it is true.

The manga ending feels like shit. The anime is even worse.

...what waifu? The only waifu that came out to me is the crazy bitch witch.

I crave motherly and elder sisterly love.

Welp, Rem, or Ram, whatever, one of the twins is adored by people. Also, Echidna, was it? I dropped the series long ago, so I'm not sure if the name is correct. She is extremely popular as well. I don't find them attractive at all, but it's a personal taste. Lady Dimitrescu is much more to my taste, and she happened to be an internet waifu as well, while 2B isn't to my taste. What I mean here, it doesn't matter what you think when it comes to popularity. Rem or Ram, Echidna was an important factor in Re:Zero popularity for a lot of people. I'm not saying it's the driving factor, the main thing, but it affected the popularity a lot.

As for Subaru, I don't know. I felt like being a manchild is realistic. What I didn't understand was the lack of goal\ambition. It's like a slice of life that was made dark for the sheer purpose of being not like every other slice of life, to shock the people. Also, the driving factor is baseless love, and I can't understand such love, nor can I associate myself with a character whose love is like this.

 

[GodlyKamui]

I crave motherly and elder sisterly love.

Ah... A comrade fond of the charm of older sisters... I salute you, honorable one.

Welp, Rem, or Ram, whatever, one of the twins is adored by people. Also, Echidna, was it? I dropped the series long ago, so I'm not sure if the name is correct. She is extremely popular as well. I don't find them attractive at all, but it's a personal taste. Lady Dimitrescu is much more to my taste, and she happened to be an internet waifu as well, while 2B isn't to my taste. What I mean here, it doesn't matter what you think when it comes to popularity. Rem or Ram, Echidna was an important factor in Re:Zero popularity for a lot of people. I'm not saying it's the driving factor, the main thing, but it affected the popularity a lot.

As for Subaru, I don't know. I felt like being a manchild is realistic. What I didn't understand was the lack of goal\ambition. It's like a slice of life that was made dark for the sheer purpose of being not like every other slice of life, to shock the people. Also, the driving factor is baseless love, and I can't understand such love, nor can I associate myself with a character whose love is like this.

The worst thing about Subaru is the fact that he is the same even in the alternative stories that the author wrote. I believe that it was in the "Wrath" story that he joins with the baddies and burns everything to the ground in order to make Emilia the ruler of the kingdom. So, he turned himself into the ultimate SIMP sacrifice for her sake.

 

[EternalSunset0]

Welp, Rem, or Ram, whatever, one of the twins is adored by people. Also, Echidna, was it? I dropped the series long ago, so I'm not sure if the name is correct. She is extremely popular as well. I don't find them attractive at all, but it's a personal taste. Lady Dimitrescu is much more to my taste, and she happened to be an internet waifu as well, while 2B isn't to my taste. What I mean here, it doesn't matter what you think when it comes to popularity. Rem or Ram, Echidna was an important factor in Re:Zero popularity for a lot of people. I'm not saying it's the driving factor, the main thing, but it affected the popularity a lot.

As for Subaru, I don't know. I felt like being a manchild is realistic. What I didn't understand was the lack of goal\ambition. It's like a slice of life that was made dark for the sheer purpose of being not like every other slice of life, to shock the people. Also, the driving factor is baseless love, and I can't understand such love, nor can I associate myself with a character whose love is like this.

Emilia remains forgotten and she's my favorite.

 

[SailusGebel]

Emilia remains forgotten and she's my favorite.

To be fair, Emilia's design is lackluster.

Btw, this is another reason why Re:Zero is popular. An atrociously large amount of butthurt fans preferred the twin girl over Emilia. And if people discuss something, it is bound to become famous.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Welp, Rem, or Ram, whatever, one of the twins is adored by people. Also, Echidna, was it? I dropped the series long ago, so I'm not sure if the name is correct. She is extremely popular as well. I don't find them attractive at all, but it's a personal taste. Lady Dimitrescu is much more to my taste, and she happened to be an internet waifu as well, while 2B isn't to my taste. What I mean here, it doesn't matter what you think when it comes to popularity. Rem or Ram, Echidna was an important factor in Re:Zero popularity for a lot of people. I'm not saying it's the driving factor, the main thing, but it affected the popularity a lot.

As for Subaru, I don't know. I felt like being a manchild is realistic. What I didn't understand was the lack of goal\ambition. It's like a slice of life that was made dark for the sheer purpose of being not like every other slice of life, to shock the people. Also, the driving factor is baseless love, and I can't understand such love, nor can I associate myself with a character whose love is like this.

I want Lady Dimitrescu to sit on me. Lol there are Hachishakusama porn in nhentai and I love them.

As for the lack of goal/ ambition... to me that part is real, not knowing what you are doing with your life, failing to keep expectations and even failing tests because you don't understand if any of your effort is worth.

Fun fact: you can be hardworking and still fail. You can be lazy and definitely fail. So do yourself a favor and go forth, you might fail, you might not. It is a lot better than sure fail. Learnt this waaaaay too late. Still not that late working as a white collar worker though.

As for baseless love. SIMP. The best I can do is lust and if I think I got no chance, I bail.

To be fair, Emilia's design is lackluster.

Btw, this is another reason why Re:Zero is popular. An atrociously large amount of butthurt fans preferred the twin girl over Emilia. And if people discuss something, it is bound to become famous.

Like Inazuma Eleven and their shitty rigged election by internet trolls. I still wonder why the fuck do I have this kiddy anime in my updates in the past and cursed and swear at the fuckers who made it into a hit.

Fun fact, Demon Slayer's popularity is also thanks to internet hype. I hate them so much.

 

[SailusGebel]

I want Lady Dimitrescu to sit on me. Lol there are Hachishakusama porn in nhentai and I love them.

Fun fact, Demon Slayer's popularity is also thanks to internet hype. I hate them so much.

Solo Leveling is popular because of the internet memes. There is plenty of other examples when the internet took their jokes too far.

As for the lack of goal/ ambition... to me that part is real, not knowing what you are doing with your life, failing to keep expectations and even failing tests because you don't understand if any of your effort is worth.

Fun fact: you can be hardworking and still fail. You can be lazy and definitely fail. So do yourself a favor and go forth, you might fail, you might not. It is a lot better than sure fail. Learnt this waaaaay too late. Still not that late working as a white collar worker though.

As for baseless love. SIMP. The best I can do is lust and if I think I got no chance, I bail.

I phrased it poorly. Lack of goal\ambition is relatable as hell. What I don't understand is why I should read a book about someone who has no goal? I can do it, but a combination of other factors makes it uninteresting. The main one, as I mentioned before, is baseless love. Yet again, I can bear with it, and it's even interesting to read about baseless love in a few other stories, but not in Re:Zero. In the end, Re:Zero is simply boring for me.

 

[SpiraSpira]

Humiliation is an interesting emotion. Assuming we’re not discussing about the fetish of humiliation but ACTUAL humiliation — it is an incredibly valuable emotion. especially for character development. Consider, why do you feel humiliated? Mostly it is because you have just LEARNED something, or more likely been FORCED to learn something, that you really wish wasn’t true. It is also highly correlated with naivety which is a character trait that is very common in the first few arcs of web novels and contemporary literature.

Let us examine your example, or a generic one like it. A MC saying, “I will protect XXXX!” followed by someone beating the crap out of him, and thus humiliating the MC. The MC had a false sense of reality — that he was powerful enough to protect someone or perhaps that the world had a thing like justice, whatever. Then he had his perception of reality shattered and was forced to realize a truth that he wishes he never had to learn — that he is WEAK, that there is no justice in the world, etc. Where a novel will succeed or fail is not so much this setup of being “humiliated”, which is a normal emotion that EVERYONE WILL EXPERIENCE IN LIFE, but in how the MC deals with it.

There are tons of avenues for the MC to follow that are all equally as valid from a story telling perspective, too. Perhaps he realizes the inherent unfairness of the world and starts to travel the path of a misanthrope — in this way he is seeking to gain power not so much to fulfill his original goal but so that he will never have to be confronted with the harshness of having his perception of reality shattered. This is a “bad” path for the MC but perhaps a great one for the story. Why? Because there are an endless number of ways for the MC to have a fundamental misapprehension about reality but he is acting as though if he is “strong” enough he will not ever be forced to realize he is wrong because there will be nobody that can effectively actualize any force on him. This is the general path of most antagonists in stories, Darth Vader for example.

The “good” way which is not surprisingly much rarer (again, for the MC) is for the MC to integrate the experience and internalize it. From a psychological point of view you have to let that part of you that was wrong, tricked or mistaken DIE, and is it ever easy to let part of yourself die? To face the facts that you were naive, lied to, or just stupid? Many people desperately hang onto delusions just to avoid admitting any of these things to themselves. Consider, you have probably read stories or even had experiences in your own life where something traumatic happened, the MC or you overcame it and then later someone mentions to you that you seem like a totally different person. That is because YOU ARE! Part of you died, you fell into the abyss of your persona and ego and then rose from the depths a new and changed person!

The only incorrect way of handling humiliation for a character is if nothing changes with regards to their character at all. In that case there really was no point at all, except if you’re using humiliation without any change to demonstrate that the character is really beaten down almost past the point of redemption, i.e. a character that has given up all hope, for example. And even that is only useful/good if it is used for some later payoff, in my opinion.

Add:
Lastly, I just want to say that a lot of people confuse humiliation with degradation. The nuance is totally different!

Humiliation should be an inflection point, a chance for change be it positive or negative for a character but definitive change.

If you’re writing a scene featuring a character being humiliated always ask yourself, is this humiliating or just degrading them? The latter is mostly pointless unless you’re writing trauma porn.