If someone wrote a romance story 'bout two cute traps (male) does it count as BL?

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Let's just say two of them look like moe girls on the outside and their relationship looks like Yuri, but they have the PP.

And in the entire story they didn't get all hot with guys at all, only with other traps (and they're also traps).

Will the tag [Boys' Love] applicable for this peculiar case? What if the traps also had romantic development with girls (either major or minor), does it use the subplot tag?

I'm totally unfamilar 'bout how it works in the BL genre and I don't really have interest if them (except if both are moe traps. I love Hatsu Kokuhaku and Otokonoko Days). So I apologize in advance if the fans are offended by the question.
 

CupcakeNinja

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Let's just say two of them look like moe girls on the outside and their relationship looks like Yuri, but they have the PP.

And in the entire story they didn't get all hot with guys at all, only with other traps (and they're also traps).

Will the tag [Boys' Love] applicable for this peculiar case? What if the traps also had romantic development with girls (either major or minor), does it use the subplot tag?

I'm totally unfamilar 'bout how it works in the BL genre and I don't really have interest if them (except if both are moe traps. I love Hatsu Kokuhaku and Otokonoko Days). So I apologize in advance if the fans are offended by the question.
It's boys love. They are traps, not girls. Unless they are girls who look like guys, then it's hetero. No matter how cute they are, if they have a naturally born dick they are male and therefore it's BL.

All you are talking about is they seem attracted to feminine charms, I.e the other traps. They seem attracted to girls, not boys, but that doesn't mean the tag won't be boys love since everyone is male.

The tags and their sexual preferences, the things they are attracted two, are two entirely different things
 

yansusustories

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I never liked the term 'traps' but let's not open that can of worms. Isn't the question rather whether they're just cross-dressing or transgender? If they're just cross-dressing because of whatever reason, then it's BL. If they're both transgender, then they're not men but transwomen and ... it's yuri. If one of them is cross-dressing and the other is transgender, then it's a hetero romance.
 
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I never liked the term 'traps' but let's not open that can of worms. Isn't the question rather whether they're just cross-dressing or transgender? If they're just cross-dressing because of whatever reason, then it's BL. If they're both transgender, then they're not men but transwomen and ... it's yuri. If one of them is cross-dressing and the other is transgender, then it's a hetero romance.

It's crossdressing.

Let's say that same person made the idea of them starting out crossdressing for a while, going further in their kinks, and end up becoming two trans girls together.

So it'd be both boys' love and girls' love in one story, one couple?

It sounds juicy.

:D

The definition is pretty eye-opening, thanks for the share.
 

yansusustories

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Let's say that same person made the idea of them starting out crossdressing for a while, going further in their kinks, and end up becoming two trans girls together.
I'm honestly not too knowledgeable about this so you might rather want to talk to a transwoman (or transman for that matter) but I'm not sure in how far 'becoming transgirls' would hold up in reality (I'm sure this can't be called a kink though). While there's a lot of questioning going on in terms of sexuality, I've had the impression that trans people (I'm actually not sure this is the right term in English, sorry if I got it wrong) are rather sure of their gender. I might be wrong about this though and if there's genderfluidity involved, then I guess it's a whole other matter altogether (and one I really don't know anything about) but, well, just in case you - or anybody else - want to write that kind of story, you should research that very, very well beforehand and talk to people that have actual experience in that regard.
 

Llamadragon

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It's crossdressing.

Let's say that same person made the idea of them starting out crossdressing for a while, going further in their kinks, and end up becoming two trans girls together.

So it'd be both boys' love and girls' love in one story, one couple?

It sounds juicy.

:D

The definition is pretty eye-opening, thanks for the share.
Can of worms.

Technically yes, it probably could count as that. Not all transgender people have their gender identity set from the start, especially if they're still teens and figuring it out. But if you are planning to write a kink story... you need to be very careful about it or prepare to get flamed. No one likes to be fetishized just for the sake of it. People do not change their gender identity because of a fetish. Research definitely needed.
 

tiaf

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On the premise I would say it's BL, but how do the characters identify themselves?

If both crossdressing boys still identify their gender as male, then it's BL. If one of them feels like a woman trapped in a male's body, it's hetero and if they both want to be referred to as woman, then it's yuri.
 
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On the premise I would say it's BL, but how do the characters identify themselves?

If both crossdressing boys still identify their gender as male, then it's BL. If one of them feels like a woman trapped in a male's body, it's hetero and if they both want to be referred to as woman, then it's yuri.

let's just say they each think of themselves as boys and their partner as girls :D /
 

bananapink

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As long as both have 'tin tins' it's BL... in the end when they lifted that skirt and peek under the lacy underwear, there is tin tin!!!
 

Khiricastares

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It's crossdressing.

Let's say that same person made the idea of them starting out crossdressing for a while, going further in their kinks, and end up becoming two trans girls together.

So it'd be both boys' love and girls' love in one story, one couple?

It sounds juicy.

:D

The definition is pretty eye-opening, thanks for the share.

Couple of things. It has already been established that cross-dressing doesn't change the tags for Boys love or Girls love etc. That is a fetish, not a legitimate gender. It does grey the lines, and sexually the interpretation is up to the reader. It can feel more like two girls than boys, or the other way around but people will always have their own perspective and fetishes to imprint on top of the story. So yes, tag it as boys love if both are boys, no matter how feminine they seem.

Almost every transgender person, MtF or FtM has some experience with cross-dressing, but for them it isn't a kink but an exploration into their gender dysphoria and acceptance issues with their own bodies and minds. But this does not mean everyone who tries or likes cross-dressing is trans or anywhere close. There is a big difference between the adrenaline or sexual thrill, and dressing a different way to induce a positive body image. Like Llamadragon said, having a kink for cross-dressing is not something that will normally lead towards transitioning to the opposite gender. Causation and correlation and all that mess.

Cross-dressing may give them a certain mindset and even a yearning for such a thing but it will still remain a fetish. The term transgender is often misused a lot on the internet, in essence it describes a medical condition and not a life-style choice. There are people out there who are boys and love cross-dressing, some even get breast implants, take hormones etc. the whole nine yards. But not all of them are necessarily transgender because of those changes. Even if a large portion probably still are.

Transgender means that there is discord between the mind and the body. This is the same out of place, uncomfortable feeling you get when you know something isn't right. When the world seems wrong or shifted or maybe you have shifted and now feel like you don't belong. Humans yearn to be in harmony with their surroundings, so they will do everything to achieve that, subconsciously or otherwise. For those diagnosed as transgender this discord comes in the form of gender dysphoria. The feeling that your body is not your body, it's wrong. There is something missing, or something that should be there and there is nothing you can do about that feeling each time you are reminded.

The reason people with these kinds of fetishes cross-dress or feminize is for pleasure, satisfaction. The reason transgender people do those things is to stop that voice in their head screaming at them that everything is wrong. It's different for each person and the intensity varies greatly, from people who say they'd kill themselves if they didn't get gender-reassignment surgery to those who think it would be a mistake to do something so drastic. So the idea that cross-dressing can somehow lead people to want to become transgender is pure fetish fuel. Make them want to dress and look and act like the opposite sex, even living as them sure. But that is a lifestyle choice and not a medical condition if gender dysphoria is not present.

Sorry for rambling, I do like the idea of two cute traps together and approve of that. But the trans part really just reeks of cheesy kink fantasy.
 

tiaf

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let's just say they each think of themselves as boys and their partner as girls :D /
When it goes down to get intimate and they can't feel anything for their partner, then it's definitely not BL.

Just keep that in mind. If they just like their partner, because they look feminine, then they obviosly are hetero. (Or you have to spend a big part on emotional developement, to make that relationship work)
 

crimson_carnation

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let's just say they each think of themselves as boys and their partner as girls :D /

If both the males are only attracted to females, then that would just mean that they're both heterosexual. I don't think that two heterosexual males romancing each other on the assumption that the other person is a female would count as BL at all. But if they end up discovering that they are bisexual somewhere along the way and truly do fall in love with each other after knowing each other's true genders, then it can be called BL, I think :unsure:
 
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Couple of things. It has already been established that cross-dressing doesn't change the tags for Boys love or Girls love etc. That is a fetish, not a legitimate gender. It does grey the lines, and sexually the interpretation is up to the reader. It can feel more like two girls than boys, or the other way around but people will always have their own perspective and fetishes to imprint on top of the story. So yes, tag it as boys love if both are boys, no matter how feminine they seem.

Almost every transgender person, MtF or FtM has some experience with cross-dressing, but for them it isn't a kink but an exploration into their gender dysphoria and acceptance issues with their own bodies and minds. But this does not mean everyone who tries or likes cross-dressing is trans or anywhere close. There is a big difference between the adrenaline or sexual thrill, and dressing a different way to induce a positive body image. Like Llamadragon said, having a kink for cross-dressing is not something that will normally lead towards transitioning to the opposite gender. Causation and correlation and all that mess.

Cross-dressing may give them a certain mindset and even a yearning for such a thing but it will still remain a fetish. The term transgender is often misused a lot on the internet, in essence it describes a medical condition and not a life-style choice. There are people out there who are boys and love cross-dressing, some even get breast implants, take hormones etc. the whole nine yards. But not all of them are necessarily transgender because of those changes. Even if a large portion probably still are.

Transgender means that there is discord between the mind and the body. This is the same out of place, uncomfortable feeling you get when you know something isn't right. When the world seems wrong or shifted or maybe you have shifted and now feel like you don't belong. Humans yearn to be in harmony with their surroundings, so they will do everything to achieve that, subconsciously or otherwise. For those diagnosed as transgender this discord comes in the form of gender dysphoria. The feeling that your body is not your body, it's wrong. There is something missing, or something that should be there and there is nothing you can do about that feeling each time you are reminded.

The reason people with these kinds of fetishes cross-dress or feminize is for pleasure, satisfaction. The reason transgender people do those things is to stop that voice in their head screaming at them that everything is wrong. It's different for each person and the intensity varies greatly, from people who say they'd kill themselves if they didn't get gender-reassignment surgery to those who think it would be a mistake to do something so drastic. So the idea that cross-dressing can somehow lead people to want to become transgender is pure fetish fuel. Make them want to dress and look and act like the opposite sex, even living as them sure. But that is a lifestyle choice and not a medical condition if gender dysphoria is not present.

Sorry for rambling, I do like the idea of two cute traps together and approve of that. But the trans part really just reeks of cheesy kink fantasy.

Nah don't worry, it gave me clarity 'bout a lot of things. Thanks for sharing.

So is Transgender basically indicated by dysphoria?

For example, a certain person wanted to be a girl for the sake of fantasy, pleasure, love, or 'cuz it feels more right (due to influenced by moe anime and yuri), and somehow putting up with their actual body. Although they don't want to transition in real life due to various reasons--is that person also a transgender?

That person consumes and creates media to cope with their dysphoria and somehow putting up and hoping one day, they can 'magically turn' into a cute anime girl, either in this life or the next life.

And that person was okay with everything and moe anime awakened them to this desire. Maybe it's actually there in the first place and the moe was the stimulus that cracked the pretense open?
 
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tiaf

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Let's just say, a certain person wanted to be a girl for the sake of fantasy, pleasure, love, or 'cuz it feels more right (due to influenced by moe anime and yuri), and somehow putting up with their actual body. Although they don't want to transition in real life due to various reasons--is that person also a transgender?
Again, if they don't identify themselves as the opposite gender of what they are born as, it's not transgender.

That person consumes or creates media to cope with their dysphoria and somehow putting up and hoping one day, they can 'magically turn' into a cute anime girl, either in this life or the next life.
A person, who can't bear to live in their body, don't hope for a wonder. They get a surgery for it.

If you see a transgender woman (MtF), they are often more kept and feminine than an average woman (vice versa with FtM). They are anxious to look like the gender they are born with.
 
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Again, if they don't identify themselves as the opposite gender of what they are born as, it's not transgender.

A person, who can't bear to live in their body, don't hope for a wonder. They get a surgery for it.

If you see a transgender woman (MtF), they are often more kept and feminine than an average woman (vice versa with FtM). They are anxious to look like the gender they are born with.

I see.

If media can let them cope with it, their desire is a yearning, longing, or fantasy?

Just like when someone who's overworked wanted to be in a Fantasy world?
 

Khiricastares

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Nah don't worry, it gave me clarity 'bout a lot of things. Thanks for sharing.

So is Transgender basically indicated by dysphoria?

For example, a certain person wanted to be a girl for the sake of fantasy, pleasure, love, or 'cuz it feels more right (due to influenced by moe anime and yuri), and somehow putting up with their actual body. Although they don't want to transition in real life due to various reasons--is that person also a transgender?

That person consumes and creates media to cope with their dysphoria and somehow putting up and hoping one day, they can 'magically turn' into a cute anime girl, either in this life or the next life.

Well, there is a certain amount of interpretation here. It is ironically not black and white, but I find it helps to think of dysphoria as the main indicator. My view on things is not exactly the more lenient narrative people have about extra genders and such, so I would say without a medical diagnosis from your psychiatrist, i would hesitate to call someone transgender. This is because being transgender is not a good thing, it is like being schizophrenic or having major depression. In mind mind at least, it is a mental illness that affects you for life, that's just how harrowing gender dysphoria can be to live with.

What you describe there does sound like it may have roots in a transgender thought process and this is where it gets interesting. Denial is the one true constant for any trans person. The fantasy for people to magically turn into a boy or girl may be just that, an escape fantasy. However it could also be the result of denial and repression finding an outlet for those feelings that you are unable to give proper form to. Especially if there was a trigger like discovering gender-bender or traps are actually a thing, they are real and possible and not purely fantasy.

Like I said earlier, gender dysphoria comes in many flavors and each one is unique for the person because how they deal and their coping methods are also unique to them. That kind of desire leads me to expect there is something subconscious going on which is driving or has sparked the interest. For me, it was being constantly mistaken as a girl when i was out in public just being me, working at a wildlife park and doing events with animals and such. Then i discovered the wonderful world of traps and all the good internet things and went through tons of therapy before getting to where I am now. It took me 22 years to discover what was wrong with me and another 3 years of therapy before I even confronted it.

If you are referring to yourself here, then I would suggest seeing a therapist and some deep introspection because those kinds of fantasies don't spring out of nowhere. Granted you can never be sure where it came from until you go looking either.
If you aren't talking about you then I would suggest the same thing to anyone who has those kinds of ideas or fantasies. Take a good look in at yourself and wonder why, fetishes are just inner desires come to light after all.
 
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Well, there is a certain amount of interpretation here. It is ironically not black and white, but I find it helps to think of dysphoria as the main indicator. My view on things is not exactly the more lenient narrative people have about extra genders and such, so I would say without a medical diagnosis from your psychiatrist, i would hesitate to call someone transgender. This is because being transgender is not a good thing, it is like being schizophrenic or having major depression. In mind mind at least, it is a mental illness that affects you for life, that's just how harrowing gender dysphoria can be to live with.

What you describe there does sound like it may have roots in a transgender thought process and this is where it gets interesting. Denial is the one true constant for any trans person. The fantasy for people to magically turn into a boy or girl may be just that, an escape fantasy. However it could also be the result of denial and repression finding an outlet for those feelings that you are unable to give proper form to. Especially if there was a trigger like discovering gender-bender or traps are actually a thing, they are real and possible and not purely fantasy.

Like I said earlier, gender dysphoria comes in many flavors and each one is unique for the person because how they deal and their coping methods are also unique to them. That kind of desire leads me to expect there is something subconscious going on which is driving or has sparked the interest. For me, it was being constantly mistaken as a girl when i was out in public just being me, working at a wildlife park and doing events with animals and such. Then i discovered the wonderful world of traps and all the good internet things and went through tons of therapy before getting to where I am now. It took me 22 years to discover what was wrong with me and another 3 years of therapy before I even confronted it.

If you are referring to yourself here, then I would suggest seeing a therapist and some deep introspection because those kinds of fantasies don't spring out of nowhere. Granted you can never be sure where it came from until you go looking either.
If you aren't talking about you then I would suggest the same thing to anyone who has those kinds of ideas or fantasies. Take a good look in at yourself and wonder why, fetishes are just inner desires come to light after all.

I think that person had serious trust issues with people.

So when others told them to go seek help, they immediately got angry cuz they thought those experts would judge them and that it's impossible to open up with strangers.

If telling them to go to the therapist doesn't work, will telling them to consult the closest person they trust suffice?
 

Khiricastares

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Ah, I feel that pain. I think that's why it took 3 years before i even told my therapist about things.

Well, they are there to judge you but not as a person. They judge what you tell them along with what they see, because there are things you cannot see in yourself, while they are trained to do so. If you feel like it's impossible to open up with strangers then try writing a letter to yourself or nobody, that way you don't have to face anyone else. Alternatively, be like me an bash your head against a wall for years building up the confidence to trust someone.

Yes, that would be the next best option. But I am always wary to recommend that given i know nothing about other people and their friends/family. My family (on my dad's side at least) is amazing and if like them, I can talk to any of my many aunts/uncles about this stuff. But I guess that's a judgement call, do you know how they'll react or do you trust them with it anyway.

Khiri #7605 if you want to chat on discord instead.
 
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Ah, I feel that pain. I think that's why it took 3 years before i even told my therapist about things.

Well, they are there to judge you but not as a person. They judge what you tell them along with what they see, because there are things you cannot see in yourself, while they are trained to do so. If you feel like it's impossible to open up with strangers then try writing a letter to yourself or nobody, that way you don't have to face anyone else. Alternatively, be like me an bash your head against a wall for years building up the confidence to trust someone.

Yes, that would be the next best option. But I am always wary to recommend that given i know nothing about other people and their friends/family. My family (on my dad's side at least) is amazing and if like them, I can talk to any of my many aunts/uncles about this stuff. But I guess that's a judgement call, do you know how they'll react or do you trust them with it anyway.

Khiri #7605 if you want to chat on discord instead.

I guess I'll tell them that.

Just wanting to be a good friend to someone.

Thanks for all the answers :D
 
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