Is all this just a waste of time?

D

Deleted member 54065

Guest
Need to remind, let's keep the thread out of politics. You can discuss that stuff on DM.
I just answered the question. But in any case, thanks for the reminder.

Here's what you should try, @WasatchWind

1). Collect names of publishing houses and submit your manuscript to them (especially those who are accepting unsolicited submissions).

2). While waiting for them, research about the ways you can improve your writing.

3). Remember that the audience is always changing. What may be popular now can be unpopular tomorrow, and vice-versa.

4). Try changing your views about your work. I mean, it's you who'd put value first in your work, not others. If you give up on that, your audience would follow suit.

5). You said you're looking for validation? Don't look for it on your readers; more or less they'd disappoint you. If anything, have some close people who knows about writing check your work, and find your validation through them. Mind you, your needs (validation) are perfectly normal.

6). While you're at it, search for your audience. Some sites have a large population of teenagers, others have young adults. It's better that you align your work with the website you're uploading with.

Ultimately, if you think what you're dping is not worth trying anymore, you may drop it. But then, don't close the door on the possibility of picking it up again once you find your reason to continue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

someguysomeone

One of the dime a dozen undead
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
102
Points
43
I don't really have much idea on publishing, creative writing, webnovel industry. Heck I wrote 2 chapter's on a whim that too I haven't touched in 10 days, haven't edited them at all. I'm am simply procrastinating, making a excuse that I have job I have no time.
How can a guy who's play like 4-5hours of league everyday, not have time.


I have resolved to do so many things over the years yet failed to achieve them. Decided on a hobby but never achieved much.

Most of the time, the pattern to approach those task were same, you start something with immense 'bieginner excitement' then as you progress you realize that to get good you must put time and efforts. The constant commitment just makes you loose interest.

I have left many many hobbies half way due to this attitude and I have regretted it immensely. For real when I glance back five years back, all I see are those college years wasted.

I can assure you if you can just overcome this problem and still continue to write, regardless of how unrewarding it is, you are the one that will have that sweet sweet satisfaction years later.

Point is,
You start with motivation but continue with habit.
Just don't stop.


This all may sound cheesy and very idealistic but it works.
welcome to scribble-hub. I think out of 1000 of users only 4 or 5 are able to avoid procrastination here.
welcome to scribble-hub. I think out of 1000 of users only 4 or 5 are able to avoid procrastination here
well i am talking out of my ass. but i don't think super motivated people use this site. A selection bias
 
Last edited:

WasatchWind

Writer, musician, creator of worlds
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
397
Points
103
Collect names of publishing houses and submit your manuscript to them (especially those who are accepting unsolicited submissions).
That is the thing I don't think y'all understand - I don't have a manuscript. The only thing keeping me going on this one is feeling like people on these sites are reading my work so far, and vetting what I'm writing.

I've also been told that you should have a handful of manuscripts ready to show. I don't have the motivation to write five stories with little feedback all on my own.
You said you're looking for validation? Don't look for it on your readers; more or less they'd disappoint you. If anything, have some close people who knows about writing check your work, and find your validation through them. Mind you, your needs (validation) are perfectly normal.
That's the reason why I'm here. No one IRL cares/has the time to read my work. I need a person constantly reading my stuff as I'm writing so I feel like I'm taking the plot in a meaningful direction, but I can't get that from IRL people right now.

While you're at it, search for your audience. Some sites have a large population of teenagers, others have young adults. It's better that you align your work with the website you're uploading with.
Royal Road is the best I've found. Readers of traditional fantasy and Sci fi aren't really on these sites.
 

AliceShiki

Magical Girl of Love and Justice
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
3,530
Points
183
Yeah, I see little chance of doing much with patreon. People have already pointed out time and again, my story just doesn't succeed here like others do. It will get lost in the shuffle on Amazon. A humble patreon will not feed my family.

And yeah, the big publishers may be competing with the self published novels... but if I take that route I ain't going to make any money. That's the reason why they're failing, is because sites like these are all giving away this stuff for free.
You're giving up before you try... That's shooting yourself in the foot.

There are 2 things you need to do in order to make money from writing:

1) Write.
2) Try making money from it.

You are already doing the first step, which is more than 90% of the wannabe writers do... Now try doing the 2nd step.

Create a patreon, make regular releases, communicate with your readers... And go and self-publish on Amazon.

Like, sure, maybe it's not gonna be super profitable... So what? You already did the hard part, you're already writing, everything else is trivial in comparison and won't take 1/10th of the time you spend writing. You wanna earn money? Then start monetizing, and start it now.

You'll never earn any money if you don't try earning money, you'll just remain complaining forever about your lack of it.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

Guest
That is the thing I don't think y'all understand - I don't have a manuscript. The only thing keeping me going on this one is feeling like people on these sites are reading my work so far, and vetting what I'm writing.
The one that is uploaded in your page is your manuscript.

That's the reason why I'm here. No one IRL cares/has the time to read my work. I need a person constantly reading my stuff as I'm writing so I feel like I'm taking the plot in a meaningful direction, but I can't get that from IRL people right now.
Honestly speaking, don't expect much from sites such as these. The readers are silent, and the most they could give you is an occasional negative criticism (which can be or cannot be useful), or a 'thank you' for the chapter done. A roundabout for this one issue is, when they are silent, it's mostly you're doing okay.

Royal Road is the best I've found. Readers of traditional fantasy and Sci fi aren't really on these sites.
So yeah, how about asking your readers in Royal Road about their feedback?
 

WasatchWind

Writer, musician, creator of worlds
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
397
Points
103
The one that is uploaded in your page is your manuscript.

What publishing house is possibly going to accept an unfinished manuscript from an unknown author?

And with these writing sites... I don't know. There's just been a feeling of having them on here, knowing that strangers can read it... it gave me a feeling of legitmacy. Going back to being alone, typing away on a google doc will make me feel a lot lesser. I only have on person who will actually willingly read it through a google doc - he's the only person who is consistently, eagerly picking up my story.

Giving a bunch of manuscripts that I've just written privately with little feedback to a publisher feels absolutely terrifying to me.

But I dunno. This just feels so useless. It feels like these publishers want authors to go in completely inexperienced. The alternative to this is going into self publishing, which removes any chance of my story have a wider print release, and will likely lead to failure. If I want to self publish in print, it would require an upfront investment that I don't have.
You're giving up before you try... That's shooting yourself in the foot.

There are 2 things you need to do in order to make money from writing:

1) Write.
2) Try making money from it.

You are already doing the first step, which is more than 90% of the wannabe writers do... Now try doing the 2nd step.

Create a patreon, make regular releases, communicate with your readers... And go and self-publish on Amazon.

Like, sure, maybe it's not gonna be super profitable... So what? You already did the hard part, you're already writing, everything else is trivial in comparison and won't take 1/10th of the time you spend writing. You wanna earn money? Then start monetizing, and start it now.

You'll never earn any money if you don't try earning money, you'll just remain complaining forever about your lack of it.

I don't want to do patreon. I doubt I will get the slightest lick of money on sites like this. It also requires the commitment of having to give up ever publishing this story, and I don't want to do that. I've spent years working on this story from its initial concept, and I don't want to just chuck it in the dumpster.
 

TunTun

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2021
Messages
141
Points
43
The one that is uploaded in your page is your manuscript.


Honestly speaking, don't expect much from sites such as these. The readers are silent, and the most they could give you is an occasional negative criticism (which can be or cannot be useful), or a 'thank you' for the chapter done. A roundabout for this one issue is, when they are silent, it's mostly you're doing okay.


So yeah, how about asking your readers in Royal Road about their feedback?
I don't know what readers you got, but I personally have very loud readers and have received positive feedback on my private messages on multiple occasions. Along with a page's worth of meaningful criticism. Please do not blame SH for lack of engagement.

The only thing I can say about RR is that users there are more likely to leave you a review. But commenters are about the same.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

Guest
What publishing house is possibly going to accept an unfinished manuscript from an unknown author?

And with these writing sites... I don't know. There's just been a feeling of having them on here, knowing that strangers can read it... it gave me a feeling of legitmacy. Going back to being alone, typing away on a google doc will make me feel a lot lesser. I only have on person who will actually willingly read it through a google doc - he's the only person who is consistently, eagerly picking up my story.

Giving a bunch of manuscripts that I've just written privately with little feedback to a publisher feels absolutely terrifying to me.

But I dunno. This just feels so useless. It feels like these publishers want authors to go in completely inexperienced. The alternative to this is going into self publishing, which removes any chance of my story have a wider print release, and will likely lead to failure. If I want to self publish in print, it would require an upfront investment that I don't have.
Yeah, I can somehow relate to your fears. I did it before (submitting an almost editless manuscript), though I'd say it's quite a success I didn't accept the contract (it's too hard for my writing style; they wanted me to write 1k words a day).

You know what, from the way you talk, I think you're just tired and stressed out because of what happened.

I suggest you take a break for a while and stay away from writing. Once you're rested, you can ask yourself if whatever you're doing is worth it or not. Don't decide when your emotions are conflicted and high.
 

someguysomeone

One of the dime a dozen undead
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
102
Points
43
I am feeling truly happy everything seems nice and funny. can actually laugh whole heartedly.so I say It's worth it.

Don't force yourself. If you find yourself drifting of into daydreams during mundane aspects of life of a imaginary world you may as well write it.
Cause no point avoiding fun daydreams.

Like don't write cause "I must write. Writing is my purpose I have decided it's my purpose I must force myself to write"
It's ok to fall out of love with something.
It's the mark of being human after all.
What's a man who doesn't change.
Maybe observe the nature. Imagine scenarios. Drop the series if it gets boring. Live a little through your dreams.
Don't write cause you have to make a interesting plot.
Write cause you want to. Anything a man can do is not better than other thing a man can do.
Death doesn't ask how much you wrote . How much you know or understand the world or How much you are known by the people of the world or How much your net worth is.

What matters is you enjoyed what you did not what you did.

Sometime a man can't work toward a goal when he doesn't enjoy the way to the goal.
Feyman enstien all were genius but they objectively know and understand the world less than the scientist which are alive now.
Why because they are dead all there genius did not help.
but they still studied the universe anyway . It was not because they were trying to understand the world but because they enjoyed the process of studying.
No one has sex to make kids or have a family. It's fun shit to do. No point in glorifying it.
It's not about leaving a mark on world or shit.
It's about what you desire.
A man and his desires changes. A man can change anything except his desires.
You are not sum of your ideas and ideals are you?
I mean ask yourself. I am something more than my thoughts and believes and goals (I am saying goals not desires. There is a difference).
You are a person who has thoughts.
You are not thoughts which happen to possess and enslave a person .
Something doesn't give you happiness then you can stop and try something else.
You are free man not enslaved by his goals or ideals.
You have first and foremost responsibility to what you are not what you consider to be a ideal person.
but it's still your choice.
Following desires is not objectively better than following your ideals and what you think is meaningful.
This is just my opinon
but i try to live my life uninfluenced by what society thinks or what i contribute to humanity.
It's about what i contribute to myself and to my desires.
Seriously it's ok to fall out of love. You are more than a pen which writes stories . Right. I mean your entire existence and personality is not defined and justified by writing stories. Right?
You are not your goals and desires.
You are a free man who can change.
 
Last edited:

WasatchWind

Writer, musician, creator of worlds
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
397
Points
103
Yeah, I can somehow relate to your fears. I did it before (submitting an almost editless manuscript), though I'd say it's quite a success I didn't accept the contract (it's too hard for my writing style; they wanted me to write 1k words a day).

You know what, from the way you talk, I think you're just tired and stressed out because of what happened.

I suggest you take a break for a while and stay away from writing. Once you're rested, you can ask yourself if whatever you're doing is worth it or not. Don't decide when your emotions are conflicted and high.
The problem is I'm using writing and working towards this sort of as a coping mechanism. I'm having a really hard time with my college classes, and just working towards things in life like dating, and this has been the one bright spot.

Now it feels like this has been snuffed out.
 

KiraMinoru

Untitled Generic Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
473
Points
133
What publishing house is possibly going to accept an unfinished manuscript from an unknown author?

And with these writing sites... I don't know. There's just been a feeling of having them on here, knowing that strangers can read it... it gave me a feeling of legitmacy. Going back to being alone, typing away on a google doc will make me feel a lot lesser. I only have on person who will actually willingly read it through a google doc - he's the only person who is consistently, eagerly picking up my story.

Giving a bunch of manuscripts that I've just written privately with little feedback to a publisher feels absolutely terrifying to me.

But I dunno. This just feels so useless. It feels like these publishers want authors to go in completely inexperienced. The alternative to this is going into self publishing, which removes any chance of my story have a wider print release, and will likely lead to failure. If I want to self publish in print, it would require an upfront investment that I don't have.


I don't want to do patreon. I doubt I will get the slightest lick of money on sites like this. It also requires the commitment of having to give up ever publishing this story, and I don't want to do that. I've spent years working on this story from its initial concept, and I don't want to just chuck it in the dumpster.
Serious question, how many original stories(excluding fanfictions) have you actually tried writing aside from the one you’ve published online? Is this one your first and only original story?
 
D

Deleted member 54065

Guest
The problem is I'm using writing and working towards this sort of as a coping mechanism. I'm having a really hard time with my college classes, and just working towards things in life like dating, and this has been the one bright spot.

Now it feels like this has been snuffed out.
Well, I could tell that writing is like a part of your being.

Refocus your goals in writing. It's not bad to find validation in what you're doing, but try to treat it as something of an extra, rather than a goal or requirement for you to continue. I know this has been said before but write for yourself.

I, for example, am writing to finish the story I've started, regardless of whether someone would read it or not.

So, about that professional editor and his words for you, look unto that as an obstacle you have to jump across. Besides, he's just one editor. What about the others?
 

someguysomeone

One of the dime a dozen undead
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
102
Points
43
Though i don't recommend ever letting you go into a situation where you can't afford falling out of love. Where if you fall out of love and can't survive anymore how will you live. That's a abusive relationship
The problem is I'm using writing and working towards this sort of as a coping mechanism. I'm having a really hard time with my college classes, and just working towards things in life like dating, and this has been the one bright spot.

Now it feels like this has been snuffed out.
I know that feeling I had the same thing with physics. There is a desperation to keep the flame going and a fear and somewhat disgust to let your ideals shatter.
After all if i can't preserve this part of myself then am i even alive. Is it really me
but then i started doing philosophy and writing . Turns out i enjoy philosophy more than physics.
There is nothing more humane than falling out of love.
Wanna try philosphy . It's pretty fun.
There are many fish in the sea man.
 

WasatchWind

Writer, musician, creator of worlds
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
397
Points
103
Serious question, how many original stories(excluding fanfictions) have you actually tried writing aside from the one you’ve published online? Is this one your first and only original story?
I have this and a Sci fi novel that's also incomplete.

It's taken me years to get this far on this story. Most stories I reach a roadblock where I can't move forward. Usually in scifi it's that I don't have the expertise to speak on something important, and in fantasy it's most often that all my ideas feel even more like copying Brandon Sanderson's work than my current novel already is.

I do have some half baked short stories, but never felt much passion for them.

I don't want to throw these in the dumpster when I've put so much energy into them.
Well, I could tell that writing is like a part of your being.

Refocus your goals in writing. It's not bad to find validation in what you're doing, but try to treat it as something of an extra, rather than a goal or requirement for you to continue. I know this has been said before but write for yourself.

I, for example, am writing to finish the story I've started, regardless of whether someone would read it or not.

So, about that professional editor and his words for you, look unto that as an obstacle you have to jump across. Besides, he's just one editor. What about the others?
Again - I have no connection to the publishing industry. I don't know how to get another opinion and I bet that kind of consultation costs money.

If I was ballsy I'd email Brandon Sanderson for advice, but that feels tantamount to writing a letter to Santa Claus and expecting a response.
 

Napelynn

Joined
Dec 20, 2020
Messages
618
Points
133
If I was ballsy I'd email Brandon Sanderson for advice, but that feels tantamount to writing a letter to Santa Claus and expecting a response.
Just do it. That way you'll at least have a chance of getting a reply.
 

PurpleCatGirl

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2020
Messages
22
Points
53
idk what the best answer is about how to make money off writing. i doubt theres a best answer, i think it'll be different for everyone.

i know our best friend worked for 10 years to write her story & she's seeking traditional publishing. she refuses to self-publish & refuses to post it online as a serial or via patreon or w/e because she has the same info, that publishers wont take it if it's already been made public elsewhere. last i heard it's > 1 year & she's still trying to find someone to pick up her novel. she's started a 2nd one in the meantime.

otoh i started writing last year for fun & as a form of escapism. i joined scribblehub a year ago tomorrow, & started a patreon last may. i'm making enuf to pay my monthly grocery bills now, but idk if that's a fluke or w/e. i write a lot, and i'm consistent about posting new chapters, so my patrons & readers know what to expect.

what works for me might not work for others but this my answer: 1) do what you're passionate about & share that passion with others. people who resonate with that will come & read your work. 2) you'll never make money writing if you don't try. trying doesn't guarantee success but not-trying does guarantee failure.

& maybe not the nicest thing, but in my limited experience creative pursuits are not guaranteed to make you money, let alone rich or famous. it involves a ton of hard work & no guarantee of reward. If you're worried about getting paid for the hours you put into writing, get a part-time job instead. then you know you'll get paid for your time.

I don't want to throw these in the dumpster when I've put so much energy into them.
i dont really understand this - if you don't want to scrap them then don't. finish them instead. only you can make that decision & judgement tho.

good luck ^^
 

KiraMinoru

Untitled Generic Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
473
Points
133
I have this and a Sci fi novel that's also incomplete.

It's taken me years to get this far on this story. Most stories I reach a roadblock where I can't move forward. Usually in scifi it's that I don't have the expertise to speak on something important, and in fantasy it's most often that all my ideas feel even more like copying Brandon Sanderson's work than my current novel already is.

I do have some half baked short stories, but never felt much passion for them.

I don't want to throw these in the dumpster when I've put so much energy into them.

Again - I have no connection to the publishing industry. I don't know how to get another opinion and I bet that kind of consultation costs money.

If I was ballsy I'd email Brandon Sanderson for advice, but that feels tantamount to writing a letter to Santa Claus and expecting a response.
You’re putting your story on too high a pedastal. Putting all your eggs in one basket. All your hopes and dreams into one thing.

Simply put, you’re setting yourself up for a more devastating failure by trying to run away from failure to begin with. Failure is a natural part of writing and you’ll face it at some point. Many, many times. Over and over again, until it feels like you’re going to be crushed. That’s just what happens when you write to be acknowledged by others.

Write some shit you don’t care too much about as a change of pace, take a step back, a break, and just throw the garbage you wrote out there to the hungry ravenous wolves.

My advice is pretty simple, just go out there and fail. Fail over and over again until you want to cry. Then use the knowledge you gained from those failures as the foundation to your success.
 
Last edited:

LostLibrarian

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
709
Points
133
Please be assured that everything I write isn't against you as a person, but the entire thread just feels like a screaming child throwing a tantrum. You fear about traditional publishing, but you don't even have a finished manuscript. You worry about money and your audience, but you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to build one. Instead, it's "all the others" or "the circumstances" and that's it. I won't say anything against you as person because I think most writers had these thoughts at some point, but there is something I want to point out.

If you want to sell something, you have to put in the work first.
Right now it feels like those twitch streamers who buy a shitt camera, stream for 2 weeks without any concept or plan, never advertise or grow their audience, and stop because only 4 people found their random stream. It wasn't as easy as you thought it would be? Yeah, no shit.

Writing in itself is either a hobby or your job. If you want it to be a hobby, then it is normal to not get a monetary return. If you want to play the guitar, you buy one and you play. But people won't pay you for it. You play in your room because you like it and maybe to a few friends later, after you became good enough. But no, the time used was already paid through your own enjoyment. The same for writing: Write for your own enjoyment, because you want to. That in itself is already your payment.

Or you want to write to make some money. Then it is your job. Either your main one or one on the side. And then treat it like a job, do your daily work, train yourself to get better, do shitty stuff to keep your head over water, and improve yourself and your product.

In all honesty: You have written 10 chapters with 15k words. Your story is so damn short, the majority of readers won't even start reading it out of fear, it'll be dropped right away. Depending on the site, most readers won't even start without 50k or even 100k words and a constant release schedule. Leaving out your first day as new book here (which is mostly dominated by the name and cover, both of which are a bit more off the mainstream), you had maybe 4-5 hours on the frontpage with your story. Given that a lot of people only look through the top spots or use lists, your time where people would see your story and think about it, was probably more in the range of 1-2 hours combined.

Did you advertise your story? Went to writing groups or the discord? Marketed your story through either ads, your own blog, helpful postings in writer forums, appearances in podcasts or conventions, or whatever? Or did you just throw our your story and hope for the best? Did you spent time reading writing theory, marketing stuff, did you inform yourself about publishing?


Either it is a hobby for you that might make you some money at some point or it is something you want to make money from. But right now, it feels a bit like those teenagers who pick up the guitar, played for 4 weeks but didn't practice that much, covered a view songs and are now angry, because no one books them.




And now to stop my "counter rant", something more positive.

Then I just look into your story and you have a great rating but also people who actually comment and show interest. Man, you have 15k words and a review already. There are stories with 100 chapters who would kill for that activity. It already shows that there are some things that are working and stand out, so build up on that. Not having the standard tags hurts, you'll get less viewers and readers early on. But writing something that doesn't feel like the "mediocre everyday crap" often also gives you a more passionate readerbase and the potential for higher reader-growth later on.

But for that, you'll have to put in the work. You want your story to be special, then make it a special one.
It's early enough to cry when everything failed. But thinking about everything failure without putting in the hours is just "giving up"...
My advice is pretty simple, just go out there and fail. Fail over and over again until you want to cry. Then use the knowledge you gained from those failures as the foundation to your success.
I think this is one of the most important points.

A lot of online-readers start with really long stories for the typical webnovel-format. It's just that easier to build up a specific audience and sell it. But it's the complete opposite from traditional publishing who start of with a polished mostly self-contained first volume. For those who want to go into more traditional publishing, story structure and polishing is a lot more important than for webnovels, who often are selling "ideas" instead of the writing itself.

Imho writers who want to break into traditional publishing should go for short stories. Not only will they train story structure and polishing a lot faster through the higher output of different stories/setups-payoffs, but there are also a ton of contests especially for short stories which can earn one a lot of feedback and/or even a published story in a magazine or anthology...
 
Last edited:

WasatchWind

Writer, musician, creator of worlds
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
397
Points
103
idk what the best answer is about how to make money off writing. i doubt theres a best answer, i think it'll be different for everyone.

i know our best friend worked for 10 years to write her story & she's seeking traditional publishing. she refuses to self-publish & refuses to post it online as a serial or via patreon or w/e because she has the same info, that publishers wont take it if it's already been made public elsewhere. last i heard it's > 1 year & she's still trying to find someone to pick up her novel. she's started a 2nd one in the meantime.

otoh i started writing last year for fun & as a form of escapism. i joined scribblehub a year ago tomorrow, & started a patreon last may. i'm making enuf to pay my monthly grocery bills now, but idk if that's a fluke or w/e. i write a lot, and i'm consistent about posting new chapters, so my patrons & readers know what to expect.

what works for me might not work for others but this my answer: 1) do what you're passionate about & share that passion with others. people who resonate with that will come & read your work. 2) you'll never make money writing if you don't try. trying doesn't guarantee success but not-trying does guarantee failure.

& maybe not the nicest thing, but in my limited experience creative pursuits are not guaranteed to make you money, let alone rich or famous. it involves a ton of hard work & no guarantee of reward. If you're worried about getting paid for the hours you put into writing, get a part-time job instead. then you know you'll get paid for your time.


i dont really understand this - if you don't want to scrap them then don't. finish them instead. only you can make that decision & judgement tho.

good luck ^^
Y'all aren't understanding certain things I'm saying.

I am working and am a student as I'm doing this, not planning on making it my full time career, but I'd love to publish a book on the side.

The reason why patreon on sites like this wouldn't work for me is because I'm just not writing the popular genres.

And the reason why I'd scrap the books - these writing sites are my support system. They let me know my writing is worth continuing. Writing alone is not fun for me. It is me constantly second guessing myself and assuming it's all crappy.
Please be assured that everything I write isn't against you as a person, but the entire thread just feels like a screaming child throwing a tantrum. You fear about traditional publishing, but you don't even have a finished manuscript. You worry about money and your audience, but you aren't willing to put in the time and effort to build one. Instead, it's "all the others" or "the circumstances" and that's it. I won't say anything against you as person because I think most writers had these thoughts at some point, but there is something I want to point out.

If you want to sell something, you have to put in the work first.
Right now it feels like those twitch streamers who buy a shitt camera, stream for 2 weeks without any concept or plan, never advertise or grow their audience, and stop because only 4 people found their random stream. It wasn't as easy as you thought it would be? Yeah, no shit.

Writing in itself is either a hobby or your job. If you want it to be a hobby, then it is normal to not get a monetary return. If you want to play the guitar, you buy one and you play. But people won't pay you for it. You play in your room because you like it and maybe to a few friends later, after you became good enough. But no, the time used was already paid through your own enjoyment. The same for writing: Write for your own enjoyment, because you want to. That in itself is already your payment.

Or you want to write to make some money. Then it is your job. Either your main one or one on the side. And then treat it like a job, do your daily work, train yourself to get better, do shitty stuff to keep your head over water, and improve yourself and your product.

In all honesty: You have written 10 chapters with 15k words. Your story is so damn short, the majority of readers won't even start reading it out of fear, it'll be dropped right away. Depending on the site, most readers won't even start without 50k or even 100k words and a constant release schedule. Leaving out your first day as new book here (which is mostly dominated by the name and cover, both of which are a bit more off the mainstream), you had maybe 4-5 hours on the frontpage with your story. Given that a lot of people only look through the top spots or use lists, your time where people would see your story and think about it, was probably more in the range of 1-2 hours combined.

Did you advertise your story? Went to writing groups or the discord? Marketed your story through either ads, your own blog, helpful postings in writer forums, appearances in podcasts or conventions, or whatever? Or did you just throw our your story and hope for the best? Did you spent time reading writing theory, marketing stuff, did you inform yourself about publishing?


Either it is a hobby for you that might make you some money at some point or it is something you want to make money from. But right now, it feels a bit like those teenagers who pick up the guitar, played for 4 weeks but didn't practice that much, covered a view songs and are now angry, because no one books them.




And now to stop my "counter rant", something more positive.

Then I just look into your story and you have a great rating but also people who actually comment and show interest. Man, you have 15k words and a review already. There are stories with 100 chapters who would kill for that activity. It already shows that there are some things that are working and stand out, so build up on that. Not having the standard tags hurts, you'll get less viewers and readers early on. But writing something that doesn't feel like the "mediocre everyday crap" often also gives you a more passionate readerbase and the potential for higher reader-growth later on.

But for that, you'll have to put in the work. You want your story to be special, then make it a special one.
It's early enough to cry when everything failed. But thinking about everything failure without putting in the hours is just "giving up"...

I think this is one of the most important points.

A lot of online-readers start with really long stories for the typical webnovel-format. It's just that easier to build up a specific audience and sell it. But it's the complete opposite from traditional publishing who start of with a polished mostly self-contained first volume. For those who want to go into more traditional publishing, story structure and polishing is a lot more important than for webnovels, who often are selling "ideas" instead of the writing itself.

Imho writers who want to break into traditional publishing should go for short stories. Not only will they train story structure and polishing a lot faster through the higher output of different stories/setups-payoffs, but there are also a ton of contests especially for short stories which can earn one a lot of feedback and/or even a published story in a magazine or anthology...
My presence on scribblehub gives a false impression. I've been writing for five or so years now, and I've been on Wattpad for about two. I had a Sci fi novel on there for a while. My current fantasy has been on there for a year and I've redone it a bunch of times.

It currently has twenty four chapters, one less than my master document. Although it has a lot of engagement relatively speaking, that's from about three people. That's not enough to do a patreon, as I figure that even among those three they probably won't be willing to pay for extra chapters.

The reason I'm not going full blown in setting up an audience is because that would be forcing me to take that route. It would certainly remove any traditional publishing opportunities, and as I've said, I need like a really big audience to make a patreon worth while.

I'm not sure what the MO is of people on sites like this, but I have a lot of youtube channels and podcasts I love, but I don't have the expendable income to give to their patreons.

I know this a nonsense rant - all based on the words of one editor, that a first draft taken down before I start showing a more developed manuscript to editors still voids first publishing rights.
 
Last edited:

KiraMinoru

Untitled Generic Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
473
Points
133
Writing alone is not fun for me.
If writing itself was never fun for you, you shouldn't have ever taken it up let alone set your end goal as being traditionally published. The people who get traditionally published are those with the passion and drive to walk through hell and back. If you came into it half-heartedly without it even being something you enjoy, you should really rethink how you look at writing.
 
Top