Is it bad when you find joy in people hating your character?

Freesia.Cutepearl

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To try and avoid rambling, I'll say this briefly.

I wrote a character, she and her crew did what she thought was normal, but it involved attacking my main character, who they thought was a normal mob, maybe mutated a bit, but a normal mindless mob.

The character refuses to accept the fact the main character is more than a mindless mob, and only defended herself, blames the main character for her crew's death. She is the sole survivor.

In her thirst for revenge and unwillingness to accept the truth, she gets her only friend and potential love interest killed, as he protects her.

I got an angry comment about how much they hate the character, and I can't help but smile with a stupid grin.

I feel accomplished.

Is it bad that I like my character being so hated? She's not evil, just, a flawed human who made lots of bad choices.
 

Freesia.Cutepearl

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My hope with the character is to portray how a well meaning person, can make some bad choices, lie to themselves, and be the cause of their own continued woes, fall into a quest for revenge, mostly of their own making, and become a "bad guy" so to speak.

Not a cartoony villain, but a slow descent into madness and chaos, fuelled by an ill-conceived notion for revenge. The first real antagonist in the story, there have been other characters who have motives to capture or otherwise, the main character.

But this is the first character who just actively wants to hunt the main character, for no other reason than just to kill her because of blind hatred.
 

Typing...

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Evoking a strong emotion from the reader is one of the greatest accomplishments for an author. However what's important is do they still like the story? There is a term for this known as 'Love to Hate.' Which is a concept used to describe a character which is hated but at the same time thoroughly enjoy doing so.
As long as the readers maintain a healthy form of expression there is no issue.
 

Freesia.Cutepearl

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I agreed with their points and mentioned how she's just been lying to herself(should be noticeable from the story itself), and thanked them for the comment and reading, and they said 'NP and the story is good,' so it seems so far things are ok on that front.

I appreciate the link, I don't want to make them hate the story too. :blob_reach:
 

NotaNuffian

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Wow. I really want to use your concept to make a character stand out like yours.

This is interesting, because my first arc introduced a bunch of 2D villains, bad because for the sake of being bad and I find it hard to explain their prejudice against my MC and anyone like him.
 
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Freesia.Cutepearl

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Wow. I really want to use your concept to make a character stand out like yours.
Go for it! Best of luck!



Also if you end up looking at my story to see what I did with that character, I must apologize for how terrible some of my early writing is, at some point I want to fix it up, but for now, there it sits. I mean. I guess objectively it's not the worst... but I really lacked direction and my writing was probably harder to read in a technical sense than it is now.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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People hate my character too, but she is naturally arrogant to be fair.
 

EternalSunset0

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To try and avoid rambling, I'll say this briefly.

I wrote a character, she and her crew did what she thought was normal, but it involved attacking my main character, who they thought was a normal mob, maybe mutated a bit, but a normal mindless mob.

The character refuses to accept the fact the main character is more than a mindless mob, and only defended herself, blames the main character for her crew's death. She is the sole survivor.

In her thirst for revenge and unwillingness to accept the truth, she gets her only friend and potential love interest killed, as he protects her.

I got an angry comment about how much they hate the character, and I can't help but smile with a stupid grin.

I feel accomplished.

Is it bad that I like my character being so hated? She's not evil, just, a flawed human who made lots of bad choices.
I think that it's good. Nothing wrong with you liking your character being hated. I'm not sure if it applies to you, but a strong positive or negative reaction is way better than no reaction at all. It means that your characters are evoking emotions in your readers, enough to make them comment. At least it's a sign that you're doing something right.

On another note, I have the same idea for a character of mine to "turn villainous" way further down the line haha. Right now, he's just a rival /antagonistic but not too important character. I just hope my readers will react that strongly when the time comes (which is way into the future)
 

ChronicleCrawler

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To try and avoid rambling, I'll say this briefly.

I wrote a character, she and her crew did what she thought was normal, but it involved attacking my main character, who they thought was a normal mob, maybe mutated a bit, but a normal mindless mob.

The character refuses to accept the fact the main character is more than a mindless mob, and only defended herself, blames the main character for her crew's death. She is the sole survivor.

In her thirst for revenge and unwillingness to accept the truth, she gets her only friend and potential love interest killed, as he protects her.

I got an angry comment about how much they hate the character, and I can't help but smile with a stupid grin.

I feel accomplished.

Is it bad that I like my character being so hated? She's not evil, just, a flawed human who made lots of bad choices.
A lot of readers consider reading as an escape. That's why a lot of guys aim for the perfect MC. Wish fulfillment. Of course, there are also a lot of readers who read for the sake of discovery and enjoyment. Let's say 50/50.

Emotionally speaking - scars, traumas, and hatred can be illogical sometimes. Nevertheless, it will be good if you can add a little backstory for that character. Maybe he/she has a more in-depth reason why he/she acted like that. A good way to develop character perse.
 

Freesia.Cutepearl

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Maybe he/she has a more in-depth reason why he/she acted like that. A good way to develop character perse.
That could be an interesting idea. As it stands, her motivation is as follows.

I suppose for ease of discussion I should just use names. Mild Spoilers

Elicia was part of a Privateer Group.
Think Normal Party of Adventurers, except, there is no worldwide Adventurer guild, some nations run Privateer Guilds, which act as both a national Militia, as well as Privateers in the historical sense here on Earth. It's very much a National Organization, state-sponsored, and whatnot.

Her group is returning from some mission, camped out, the Leader spots my Main Character, Lilith, bloody after she crashed trying to fly, washing off in the river, while coming to terms with being Isekai'd. They spot her, think she is some new form of mindless monster, try to attack her with intent to capture to hand over for research and lots of cash.

Lilith defends herself, manages to kill them all, except an Injured Elicia who escapes while Lilith is still in shock/coming to terms with just being attacked/murdering a bunch of people.

Despite realizing Lilith is intelligent, Elicia can't let go of the idea she is just a monster who had to have massacred people to be so bloody, and absolutely murdered all her group members, even though she only defended herself.

Elicia knows that the Leader, Ernaut, of the group was sometimes careless, and he is truly at fault for the attack and their group's subsequent demise.

Yet she disregards this, despite feeling that Ernaut would get the whole group killed one day. She watched Lilith murder them all in "cold blood" as far as she is concerned. Not fair some monster, the murderer of people, defended itself, no need to consider her intelligence, she must just be a monster.

Her twisted desire for revenge becomes a vendetta of protecting people against this new threat, this monster, that will surely murder all. There hasn't been an intelligent monster in nearly 200 years, since they were thought wiped out in a massive crusade. Despite knowing and reasoning that this intelligent monster is a huge threat, she still regards her the same as a mindless monster, that would have attacked them first if they hadn't.

This excuse, this fallacy, that she, her group, must have had to attack first, or else she would have attacked them, and will attack others, becomes part of her core reasoning, despite the fact she encounters Lilith, not only not killing, but laughing and talking, with other people.

Yet she is convinced Lilith WILL murder them, she's smart, she's tricking them, toying with them for some purpose, she's evil and will murder them, she must attack to save those people.

She attacks, and her only remaining friend, and the person she's starting to fall in love with, Tristan, who has loved her for some time but has been waiting for the right moment, jumps in front of Lilith's counter attack, and get stabbed himself, and Elicia in her utter refusal to accept reality, doesn't let them near to heal him before he dies, because she doesn't trust them, they must be under Lilith's control!
 

yansusustories

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I really get that sentiment. I have a few characters like this as well. Strangely enough, one of them happens to be one of the main characters and not a villain. It was intended though so I don't see a problem with it either. If you wrote your characters to be liked and then they were hated by everyone, that might be a different situation though.
 

TachimeSan

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I got two characters on my story that most of my readers hate with a burning passion 😂

One is the prince of the kingdom who just so happens to be a transmigrator as well as the one who caused the MC's death in his past life. While the other is an enigmatic side character that does things the way he sees fit.

Seeing them get hated on puts a smile on my face :>
 

Valmond

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That would depend. If they were meant to be hatable, then why not? No reason not to. Since that means you have made success. If it is not intentional, then you should probably fix it.
 

Queenfisher

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Mmm, I have the opposite issue with one archetype. It almost always gets hate regardless of my intent. The Hermione type, or the nerdy-know-it-all who is also very assertive. No matter the iteration or how many I've had, people hate them regardless if I want it or not.

Oh well. I still have no idea how to write such so that they don't summon readers' hatred. They always do, ╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭. I'm lucky they're never my Main Characters, but that's only because the very first one was -- and that taught me a valuable lesson. To never put them at the front of the book!

I think it's the same in many other media as well. Korra in the first seasons of LoK is such a character as well as the original, book Hermione. A lot of people do say that book Hermione is a very flawed, unlikable person, whereas in the movies, she had been adapted by be MUCH more agreeable to the audiences. So I think that the writers can find a certain archetype that just doesn't work for the majority of the audience no matter what you do with them.

Re: characters who I enjoy being hated are the villains and the antagonists, duh. Though I'd still prefer them to be respected far more than hated, but that's me...

Anyway, the Joffrey Baratheons of stories are usually some of the most amazing characters ever made :blob_aww:
 

yansusustories

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Mmm, I have the opposite issue with one archetype. It almost always gets hate regardless of my intent. The Hermione type, or the nerdy-know-it-all who is also very assertive. No matter the iteration or how many I've had, people hate them regardless if I want it or not.
I wonder if this might be some kind of projection going on from the readers' side. Almost everyone knows a person like that in real life and they usually aren't well-liked there either because, well, it's frustrating to always have somebody jab next to you how wrong you and everyone else are. So maybe they subconsciously think of that when reading this kind of character.
With other types, it might not happen as much because they're usually not as clear-cut in reality? Anyway, it's just a guess. Maybe I'm completely off with it as well ...
 

Queenfisher

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I wonder if this might be some kind of projection going on from the readers' side. Almost everyone knows a person like that in real life and they usually aren't well-liked there either because, well, it's frustrating to always have somebody jab next to you how wrong you and everyone else are. So maybe they subconsciously think of that when reading this kind of character.
With other types, it might not happen as much because they're usually not as clear-cut in reality? Anyway, it's just a guess. Maybe I'm completely off with it as well ...

I kinda agree with that, albeit in a slightly different sense.

I once had a big discussion regarding female antiheroines in realistic fiction. I.e. women characters with too many flaws and somewhat questionable methods. I really don't want to imply some kind of chauvinism or whatever because, hey -- then I'm guilty of it, too, so it'd be pointless to talk about.

But in short -- female characters have a smaller room to move in with the flaws they can use without turning into unlikable psychopaths MUCH faster than male characters. (i.e. the threshold is slightly lower for them). Take Gone Girl and other females by Gillian Flynn, Skyler from Breaking Bad, Rory from Gilmore Girls, Sansa from early GoT and Dany from later seasons, and many others I can't remember atm. They are just very real individuals who make bad choices. But the hatred for them is... a little bit over the top compared to their male counterparts.

I think realism is a big part of why they're disliked. Even when people claim they want more realism in what they read -- they really do not :blob_evil: . Real people suck. They are boring. We don't want to read about them most of the time.

Plus, more realistic women in fiction is a relatively new concept (19th century onward, whereas before, they have been more idealized than real). Just check out how Flaubert was put ON TRIAL for creating a realistic female in Madame Bovary. He was accused for causing a moral outrage, lol. ╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭.

So yes, I do think that realism is to blame for this. It's good when you intend it like @Freesia.Cutepearl with her character. But when you don't, and you just want to delve into real human flaws, you will sometimes get hate for it regardless of your artistic wishes.

The subconscious dislike of realism works with male characters as well. Like, take some of the examples of most hated male archetypes: the beta-cuck MC. Without meaning to and just by drawing a more realistic model of a man, you can summon the ire of the audience. Because they expect something more escapist and wishfulfilling, and this archetype frustrates them.
 

yansusustories

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Take Gone Girl and other females by Gillian Flynn, Skyler from Breaking Bad, Rory from Gilmore Girls, Sansa from early GoT and Dany from later seasons, and many others I can't remember atm. They are just very real individuals who make bad choices. But the hatred for them is... a little bit over the top compared to their male counterparts.
And ... once again, I don't know any of the examples given :blob_sweat: However, I completely agree with this statement:
I think realism is a big part of why they're disliked. Even when people claim they want more realism in what they read -- they really do not
People often think they know what they like when, in fact, they don't. You can't convince me otherwise :blob_joy:
 

Queenfisher

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And ... once again, I don't know any of the examples given :blob_sweat:

Sorry, :blobrofl:. I am a bit too much of a media and popculture geek sometimes and forget not everyone is!

Skyler from BB is an especially (in)famous example for how much she was being hated for doing, essentially, nothing. She is a wife of a crime overlord who frequently goes O_O when she realizes he is a crime overlord. People thought that she should just chill and stop being so negative about her husband literally becoming a drug-trafficker, :blob_okay:. Nobody wanted a realistic portrayal of a family in turmoil (and I can relate to that). They wanted drug-trafficking hijinks.
(Just Google "Skyler" + "hatred". There are, like, dissertations on why that happened and what her character does wrong or is perceived as doing wrong in the eyes of the audience ^^).

Rory from Gilmore Girls is mostly hated by the female audience group for, as they say, "failing to live to expectations and being too flawed". Originally, she was an A+ student, a smart and very optimistic girl who then "fell from grace" by accumulating flaws from being so adored and admired by everyone. Audience didn't actually want to see a realistic portrayal of a character "under societal pressure to succeed". They just wanted to see her succeed.

Sansa from GoT is the typical popular girl who gets punished for being a typical popular girl. People derived enjoyment to see her crumble from being so naive and some even lamented the lack of rape on two separate occasions when it almost happens -- in order to properly teach her that life isn't as "ideal" as she believed it to be.

Dany from GoT is a ~Mary Sue who the author wanted to subvert into being "not a Mary Sue". He stopped using idealized language and used more realistic, disgusting imagery with her in the later books, and wanted to show that a traditional idealized heroine like her would be useless and helpless in truly realistic political situations. That's the book. In the TV Show, the authors just went from 0 to 100 with the exact same paradigm, only in their rushed execution she just becomes a hysterical genocidal maniac because she lost the popular vote for the throne against her boyfriend + 2 of her kids got murdered at the same time.
But in both these instances, I'd say she was portrayed as a woman with a horrific fate who will break under such circumstances (as most real people would). Yet because she was portrayed in the early books/seasons as this idealized, escapist heroine, this change into grim realism is very unwelcome among the audiences.

Gillian Flynn's (Gone Girl, etc) women are just nuts, lol. She specifically tried to make Hannibal Lecters (Silence of the Lambs), Patricks Batemans (American Psycho), Batmans (Any iteration of a dark hero) -- or any famous antihero, only female. And she did. Her women are just... @_@. Not unrealistically, though, because their motivations are very well-drawn and the characters are multi-dimensional and real. But still... watching/reading about them is severely unpleasant.

People often think they know what they like when, in fact, they don't. You can't convince me otherwise :blob_joy:

Yeah, :blob_frown:

It clashes so much with all the advice of "write more realistic characters, we're tired of cardboard cutouts and archetypes". And then, when you do, they will be cranky again because now it's not very enjoyable to read because people try to escape realism for a reason.

Of course I know -- there should be perfect balance between realism and archetypal character writing, blablabla, but I just sometimes wish people showed me where this balance line is. But nobody ever does. :blob_frown:

Makes me wonder if anyone really knows what any one of us is doing or if we just repeat advice even we ourselves don't understand that well, :blob_sweat:! I know I don't.
 
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