Writing List of worst things consistently generalized in repetitive forms throughout stories of CN, JP, KR, and etc.

[NotaNuffian]

Rather than talking about the characters cuz everyone's doing them on top, I like to talk about the general trend that is just painful for me to go on with the work further.

CN: Oppressive system (be it sects, nobility or other powerplay) in which the MC "destroys" it all and becoming the said system with zero to no reprecussion during or after the fallout they caused/ led. Pointless faceslaps and racial slurs that becomes a joke as it only serves to please the true reader, CCP.

JP: Isekai and western vibe, lets throw in the Japan culture!!! *insert rice, soy sauce and some other generic and borderline racist thing that I don't bother to factcheck.*

KR: dungeons. Motherfucking dungeons. Also GRIND.

 

[Discount_Blade]

KR: dungeons. Motherfucking dungeons.

This. I laughed.

 

[NotaNuffian]

This. I laughed.

At this point I am thinking that dungeons had probably raped the authors' mothers, sisters, spouses and dogs.

Oh yeah, e-sports. *facepalm*

 

[Jemini]

JP - Most protagonists are Mary Sues who can never go wrong (and would likely break if they would). And everyone in the world is always agreeing with everything they say, completely unable to have another opinion (50 tea recipes of the duchess, I swear, no one in this world prefers juice).

Want to know the most ironic thing? All 5 of the "Isekai genre defining 5" from 2012 break this trope.

Those 5 are Overlord, Mushoku Tensei, Re:Zero, Rising of the Shield Hero, and Kono Suba. All 5 were 1. Massively popular in their time, 2. Completely changed up (and re-defined) the standard formula for all isekai written since (MT in particular), and 3. Contained some of the absolute most flawed and yet emotionally powerful characters in all of JP web novels. (That's debatable for Overlord, but if you stop to consider it, Suzuki Saturo is being dragged down the path to becoming an evil overlord specifically because he is so weak of will that he's conforming himself to the whims of his evil guild NPCs)

And of course the ironic part is that everyone who tries to copy the big 5 copy them on the most surface levels without realizing it's actually #3 on the list that made all of them good. Meanwhile, #3 on the list is the only thing from all of those that not a single person seems to get right.

 

[ArcadiaBlade]

I haven't read any stories from Thai. Mind giving me a few references please?
Oh right, I did read a few stories from KR with a shounen and romance plot. And all I got is this: KR MC is a walking Dildo, easily passed around by the women, who seemed to enjoy sharing in his life. And for some reasons, jealousy and relationships are not strictly clarified.

When sexism exists, one gender is made the trash can and the other an over glorified vase.

And don't forget the degree of racism shown toward other characters of different ethnicity and nationality in some of those stories.

JP - Between Obvious and Subtle.
KR - Subtle.
CN - Obvious
Other - Unknown

Ah, my bad. I thought it was thai but maybe I mistook it as indo since I don't really know much about the language they speak, mostly having misunderstanidng between the two of them. I only know is that most Indo really do love the references they give out in their mangas a lot which ranges from animes to video games. I read a certain manga from indo and they usually have 1 or 5 references on each chapter which is why I thought that they really love their references. Hence, my conception of them.

 

[ForestDweller]

Want to know the most ironic thing? All 5 of the "Isekai genre defining 5" from 2012 break this trope.

Yeah, that's why I was enamored enough with Mushoku Tensei (despite its flaws) that I started writing my own isekai to imitate it.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Want to know the most ironic thing? All 5 of the "Isekai genre defining 5" from 2012 break this trope.

Those 5 are Overlord, Mushoku Tensei, Re:Zero, Rising of the Shield Hero, and Kono Suba. All 5 were 1. Massively popular in their time, 2. Completely changed up (and re-defined) the standard formula for all isekai written since (MT in particular), and 3. Contained some of the absolute most flawed and yet emotionally powerful characters in all of JP web novels. (That's debatable for Overlord, but if you stop to consider it, Suzuki Saturo is being dragged down the path to becoming an evil overlord specifically because he is so weak of will that he's conforming himself to the whims of his evil guild NPCs)

And of course the ironic part is that everyone who tries to copy the big 5 copy them on the most surface levels without realizing it's actually #3 on the list that made all of them good. Meanwhile, #3 on the list is the only thing from all of those that not a single person seems to get right.

Because writing a flawed character turns out a bit too self reflecting, for me at least. They say "write the character you know best", I know myself best and I hate myself.

 

[TotallyHuman]

Pretty much all of them are different levels of chauvinism. The Chinese are the worst, the Japanese are (kinda? Very big kinda) the least

 

[Pontan]

I haven't read any stories from Thai. Mind giving me a few references please?
Oh right, I did read a few stories from KR with a shounen and romance plot. And all I got is this: KR MC is a walking Dildo, easily passed around by the women, who seemed to enjoy sharing in his life. And for some reasons, jealousy and relationships are not strictly clarified.

When sexism exists, one gender is made the trash can and the other an over glorified vase.

And don't forget the degree of racism shown toward other characters of different ethnicity and nationality in some of those stories.

JP - Between Obvious and Subtle.
KR - Subtle.
CN - Obvious
Other - Unknown

Not only that, there is also this gay male stereotype with a weird looking dude with a double chin, super short cut beard and mustache, and a lanky but manly face with makeup that want to get all the boys. It's like that swan dude from one piece but gay inside too or puri puri prisoner from one punch man. It's a super weird outdated stereotype as gay men can be really macho and can act and look exactly like a heterosexual male. Unless it's around other men.

 

[BenJepheneT]

I don't read much novels but one thing I found out about CN novels is that you could be at chapter 300 and still be at the prologue.

 

[LilTV1155]

@Reyezwriting

Yeah Shounen seems to always have a taste for leadership demonstration in "friendship" power. Add in 2 buckets of salt Tragedies involving the unneccessary deaths of other potential characters. Dump in 3 gallons of complicated relationships and a handful of Bizarre pairings / romantic shippings that make senses for some reasons?

But I don't blame Sarada for existing because she was a child born jsut because her parents wanted her to be.

And I think Shounen tag stories only sell well when the stories show the audience new experiences like Alchemy, Detective, Mecha, Ninja, Tailed Beasts, Myths, Samurai, Knights, Shamans, and etc. Ie. Info dump heavy + fight scenes + actual adventures.

When that formula is ignored in favor for MC being the Friendship Power Ranger and blah yadayadada. Story get shit quick. Characters get bad as plot go.
All for money and glory.

 

[SailusGebel]

Elders or older people are always right\respected in CN\JP\KR novels. Family is the most valuable thing in CN\JP\KR novels. Without friends, you are no one and a subpar human being in JP novels. That's what I came up with from the top of my head.

 

[LilTV1155]

@SailusGebel , Elders are unreliable: "How dare you bring dishonor to the family name?! You should die!"
Too much betrayals = revenge = too much edgy characters, especially in JP and CN = messed up people, who are glorified killers even if motives are justified. Friends stealing your exes, that's some NTR subtlety.
-
@NotaNuffian , The only repercussion for overthrowing the power balance is . . . . . getting hit daily by five hundred Tsunami Waves of Trainwreck Groupies (Pointless Harem & Suicide Squad of Cannon Fodders). If you can't die from boredom, maybe from suffocations or fatal injuries from "comical" DV from your beauty groupies? Talk about crazy fans.
-

CN guy punch an Emperor: Yah! I'm strong!

- Ability Activated: Power Flex
- Effects: System break for 68 years.
- Range: 1 continent
- Automatic Side Effects: Enrage +Max to all Males & Charm +Max to all Females

Simple Scenarios:​

1)
Me. What a beautiful weather.
CN Guy. ARGH! Can you all fucking stop harassing me! LEAVE ME ALONE!

CN Groupies Females. "I want your babies! And your money! And your power, give me your fame!"
CN Groupies Male. "Give me back my wife, my daughter, my sister, my mother, my grandmother, you bastard thief!"

Me. . . . My dinner..... Look like I need to order a takeout.

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ​

2)
JP: Gal girls are ugly cause they are so dark! Black is evil!
Me. I don't get why black colored hairs' so evil? What's wrong with different skin color?
JP: Spirit of darkness is black and dark! So she must be ostracized villainess/villain!
Me. Say that here in US, those folks might start a raid. Why not give the spirit of darkness different color instead of blacking him all the times?
JP: *Magically whitewash the character's skin color by granting power over Darkness and Light.
Me. . . . . . . . . That guy's so done effed up.

Other Readers of the Story: WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TO REMOVE ONE CHARACTER'S UNIQUE TRAIT!? JUST BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FOLLOW YOUR BEAUTY STANDARDS! BASTARD AUTHOR / ARTIST!!!!!!

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ​

3)
JP Guy: Rice! You westerner got no onsens! Japan is da best! We Japan can make katsu (fried pork), hamburgers, yadayadayada!
Me in Customer Line. Yea, yea. Nothing new, so where's my Ikayaki?

Mind: If you are talking your national cuisine, then aren't those foods you eat almost every day stuffs found in high school life genres? Also curries are not really original to Japan. Two, you should not be glorifying alcohol so much. Especially when there's minors reading your stories.

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ​

4)
JP Guy: Yanderes are so cute!
Me. . . . . . . . . You really don't mind them cutting you up?
JP Guy: No! They are just misunderstood!
Me. . . . . . . Okay.... Yan-san, he's all yours!

Mind. If you say that, then those criminals known for manslaughters, rapes, and terrors are just misunderstood? Not only are you an M, you are glorifying murderers especially the rabid ones that will even kill anyone breathing near you? Are you sure this is not a Stockholm or horror thing?

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ
​

Rules of Surviving the Yandere: 1) Do not stick your D* in Crazies. 2) Don't get involved. 3) Know your escape routes and be prepared to fight.

Press F for JP guy.
JP's tombstone: "Yanderes are just misunderstood." COD: Dismembered and preserved in formalyze bottles by his stalker."

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ​

5)
KR Guy: All about that dungeon cause I'm so f*ing hot badA.
Me. I saw a wild Edgy Chunnibyou.
KR Guy: Grinding make me lucky!
Me. I spied a Fortune Buster.
KR Guy: When I came back, they are so weak!
Me. I spied a wild Gangsta Flexer.
KR Guy: Those girls got me into this stuff. And I ----
Me (making fried rice). Oh. It's a wild Human D* in heat. . . . . Hold it! Add those twenty-five more eggs (Fangirling "Harem" groupies)

- - - - DRRRZZ - - - - COMMERCIAL BREAK - - - - - DRRRZZZ​

So yah trends.

 

[Zirrboy]

I've mostly read those, so unless otherwise specified, assume that I mean stories with a man as protagonist

CN: Modular, interchangeable and predictable subplots and characters. Just expect the opposite of what the author is telling you

• Kind and talented genius who might actually come across as a better person than the irascible and egocentric MC? Two faced traitor
• Flashy and all-powerful technique? weak af. Mundane sword slash? OP, pls nerf. The same goes for fights in general
• Honest, respectful courtship never works, while disrespecting personal boundaries (even when the MC is a woman and on the receiving end) is irresistible (not impossible ofc, but appears disproportionally often imo) might just be the flawless male lead, though

For men, losers are the good guys, those with status/talent are the baddies. Women without status don't exist, so those with can go either way. Beautiful = good, no description = bad
Double standards: The MC being on the receiving end of partiality is unforgivable bullying, while the inversion is "the way of the world"

Speaking of unforgivable, no one ever lets go of a grudge, even if it was in their best interest. And aside from "subtle" bullying of the MC in the first few chapters, public violence is the only means of venting. Like, sure, you can't have the powerful adversaries posses a brain, else the MC would be dead after the second arc, but the protagonist is no different and just plot-armors through the front door

It's often Isekai, but that never matters beyond giving a loser a change in personality.

The MC is the only one with any form of agency. Anything that changes is in reaction to them. There's no one growing to match them, just pre-established scenarios



JP: Whereas CNs fill the infinity of serialization through repetition, JPs do so by stretching.
With romance, it's awkwardness or density, action plots bring in meaningless interlude battles or romance. Food always goes.

Getting stronger is never a long term concern. Sure there are times when the protagonists are too weak for a given challenge, but it's nothing that half a chapter of sped up training won't fix. It's not that there's no growth, but it just kinda happens alongside whatever the current plot is.

Giving a competent MC a flaw by making them socially challenged would be a nice thing if it wasn't always done this way around. I get that it's for self insert purposes, but come on.

In contrast to CNs, the MCs rarely do anything to advance the plot. That is left entirely to the supporting cast. The protagonist's job is adapting.

KR: The ones I read felt like a mix between the two above.
The Mcs are infallible and perfect at nearly everything, but socially goofy.

CNs invest little time in characterization, but makes the relationships explosive in exchange. JPs spend a lot more time to develop characters and relationships, but thus has fewer characters done more thoroughly over longer periods.
KR sometimes follows either, but sometimes just marginalizes characters entirely. They are given little screen time and also advance slowly.

 

[LilTV1155]

@Zirrboy , I have also noticed that when those novels mentions the forms of bullying, which are set in heavily toxic environment.

KR - Bullies use literal physical violence to extort money and forms cliques and gangster violence; but police intervention is nonexistent? Bullies because student is really poor. Bullies don't learn their lessons and will keep coming until they can commit murders. Being the children of high famous people give you bullying privileges.
Bullying is solvable by Violent Actions.

CN - Bullies from classmates, bullies from fake friends, bullies from your own household i.e. parents / grandparents / stepfamily, etc. bullies from the teachers, bullies from principals, bullies from adults who are incompetent due to embezzlements and affairs; also bullies a student who financial aid to the point of suicides, suicides are brushed off. Same as KR, no police intervention as well.
Bullying is solvable by Money & Verbal Actions.

JP - Bullies just because you talked to someone they has a crush, bullies just b/c you are a new kid, bullies just b/c kid's so beta weak, bullies b/c you don't force yourself to socialize with anyone or join their cliques, teachers are nearly useless and make situations worse by announcing the anti-bullying, student is pushed to suicides because the bullying developed further with aspects of cyberbullying and etc.
Bullying is solvable by . . . . Counseling and Ignorance of Bliss?

And in all three novels, they have students and people fearing ghosts. Ghosts? Have no one ever thought that if they don't bully, their fears or the demonized ghosts of those victims will never go after them?

 

[Armored99]

I feel like I'm using this meme a lot, but it's just so relevant.

 

[FallingLeaf]

Zirrboy mentioned a big one-grudges and blood feuds. Woo boy do they love their blood feuds and eternal grudges. “Our ancestors looked looked weirdly at our neighbors 5000 years ago. We’re still mortal enemies to this day.”

Way too often you have some idiot drag their family into conflict that only ends when one do the sides is entirely wiped out…and if the MC is the one doing the slaughtering expect people to be fearful and/or impressed.

“Young Master Du the 5th of the Mbass family encountered someone new in town. Young Master Du demanded the new person give him everything they were carrying, hand over the pretty woman they were traveling with to “accompany” Du, and for the new person to bow down and thank Du for the privilege of being robbed. When the stranger refused Du declared blood feud and eternal war on them. After Du was killed, Du the 4th came out and attacked the stranger, then when Du the 4th died out came the 3rd and so on until old man Du Sr. came out and accused the stranger of harassing his family and that they can’t both live under the same sky. Du Sr.’s funeral is next week. There will be no attendees because the stranger killed everyone of the Mbass family, except for the single pretty woman who turned her back on the Mbass family and fled, joining with the stranger.”

 

[Akivien]

I stole this pinkish herb that can make other people immortals, but because i train in the way of absolute heaven dragon primodial begining ancestral chaotic sword thechnique it will only rise my cultivation level by a small realm, keep in mind that there are still 99 small realms untill i become an immortal.

 

[LilTV1155]

Zirrboy mentioned a big one-grudges and blood feuds. Woo boy do they love their blood feuds and eternal grudges. “Our ancestors looked looked weirdly at our neighbors 5000 years ago. We’re still mortal enemies to this day.”

That's what I would call a Suicide Squad.
And the woman who turned her back on her Family getting wiped down, make you wonder if family betrayal counts as "romantic" in that sense. Bizarre.

Most of the feuds and family extinctions seem to almost start from trying to get the same thing: women, treasures, biggest D measurement trophy. Make you think one family gone cause the two were too petty arrogant. And the reasonable one has to do with "You stole her! Or Kill one ant find a thousand ants."

99 small realms untill i become an immortal.

99 worlds = 1000+ chapters

 

[Maromar]

Runaway racism, ethnocentrism, and nationalism. @Discount_Blade already touched on that. It can enhance a story when a character displays such traits in a believable manner (they pay for it, or it colors actual character interactions). But most stories do neither. It's often shoehorned into the narrative as "right and righteous" with a select group of people consistently seen as superior and given a wider moral license for the same heinous acts the villains commit (the transmigrated protagonist detests slavery but can have slaves and his slaves feel GOOD about being his slaves without dealing with the dissonance such a situation would cause because those slaves are better treated in the hands of a proud Korean). When it happens, I just drop the novel. Not because I'm offended- I've lived with too many siblings for that to be easy. No, I drop those stories because they're dumb.

It oftentimes comes out of nowhere and doesn't connect to anything else in the novel. It's like going to a lemonade stand, getting delicious lemonade, and finding an invitation to a Klan meeting on the back of your receipt. One example is seen in Little Tyrant Doesn’t Want to Meet with a Bad End where the main character summons a troop of undead African Pallbearers, (of the coffin dance meme variety) refers to them as "coolies" and proceeds to use them for farming, constantly deriding them as useless and worthless despite costing several system points. The pallbearers in-story are in fact, comically weak, but that's a choice made by the author, one with less than stellar implications. It started as a funny reference and ended with what could have been the author "revealing their power level" if one were to use 4chan terms.

To a lesser extent, overused tropes that yote my goat include face slapping, young beastkin slaves that are instantly thirsty for the mc, and unique skills handed out for free without rhyme or reason. Ugh!

All of the above can be in a story and it can be good, but it comes down to the execution. It's just that when they're misapplied the cost is greater than "fresher" tropes. The MC can even choose to kill off everyone that doesn't look like him out of some twisted principle, but the narrative had better not kowtow to him for it, and he shouldn't be portrayed as a heroic figure after that point. And the people he killed/their allies better not be complacent even if they act like they are because they don't want to die next.