Magic and Science Light novels

NinetailedFox76

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I don’t know why I’m going on this rant but it’s bugs me so I have to say this Magic and science can be in the same light novel like the cultivation novels with science mcs but cultivation is cultivation and science is science there’s a difference if you know science it doesn’t make you a master at alchemy say hose for for Magic magic is magic it’s works because it’s magic you can explain if with science yes but in the end it’s “MAGIC” so if any authors are reading this please draw a line so People in the don’t say they can master magic because it’s Science ughh I’m getting a headache Trying to put this into words.
 

Noel_Elitia

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I think most of the authors who try to connect magic and science, use it by a common logic, treating magic as a kind of energy. Well, i do the same. but the fun part is about explaining the phenomena that occurs using magic and not the initiation or casting.
For example this is a small paragraph from my novel :

Lifting my hand as it pointed to the sky, I took a final look at my surrounding noticing that the stage itself was set for me right from the start. Hundreds of lying dormant volcanoes, boiling with molten liquid from the inside and swirling with pent-up heat; inhabited the dragon island as its native feature, maybe today was the final day to wake them up all at once.
While I had already set the currents in motion for the cold and warm air to clash as they danced in the sky to welcome the thunderstorm clouds approaching from every nook and corner of the vast ocean around us in response to the low pressure region radically fashioned into existence.
The water from the internal flowing water bodies had already started evaporating, welling up moisture in the air, and so the ridiculous amount of ash being released into the atmosphere at the same time as the insides of the volcanoes was being forcefully heated by my wind and fire magic. The basic idea was to simply heat up the whole place until they ionize and start to glow from all the heat energy. In turn generating friction between all the colliding, fragmenting particles of volcanic ash giving rise to static electricity and so what called volcanic lightning.
I glanced upward and while the dragon’s body had already dissolved and assimilated, the halo glowed with a red aura, as it raced and engorged with so much energy. Suddenly an intense light flashed and recollecting at centre, the incredible torrent of magical energy was ready to be dissipated and put holes in all of the land wherever it struck.

“[BLACK FILAMENT]” Bringing my hand down like launching a hurricane before the disaster struck, the ashen clouds savouring the sounds of the words I pronounced, it caused the earth and the atmosphere to quake.

The transient blaze of black-purple lightning shredding through the intense hanging darkness, made its way to the magical artifact that was about to destroy this place but it only made it look more like a gleam of torch as it got snuffed out from the very plane of existence.


I don't know whether it helped but i felt like sharing it.
 

Agentt

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Please use commas and periods, my brain hurts.
I don’t know why I’m going on this rant but, it’s bugs me so I have to say this:

Magic and science can be in the same light novel like the cultivation novels with science mcs; but cultivation is cultivation and science is science.

There’s a difference, if you know science it doesn’t make you a master at alchemy.
(Idk wtf this means)
say hose for for Magic magic is magic

It’s works because it’s magic. You can explain it with science then yes but in the end it’s “MAGIC”. So if any authors are reading this please draw a line so People in the don’t say they can master magic because it’s Science ughh I’m getting a headache Trying to put this into words.
 
D

Deleted member 87036

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Please use commas and periods, my brain hurts.
Thanks god I have no brain! There is nothing to hurt!
Magic and science can be in the same light novel like the cultivation novels with science mcs; but cultivation is cultivation and science is science.
Arthur (the writer, not the king) once said, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." But let's pretend he never said that!
Magic and science can coexists and be distinct from each other, look at A Certain Magical Index for reference!
 

Wysillesthal

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What is magic in the first place?
Events that are impossible to produce such as space or time manipulation? Or what is possible through science but with supernatural means such as turning on a light but instead you can do it by conjuring a light orb on your staff?

As for alchemy, isn't it the fundamental of chemistry? Medieval alchemy was a natural philosophy and later in the 17th~18th centuries is called early chemistry. It studies the nature of matter; atoms, molecules, and chemical reactions that are now labeled as modern chemistry. It's also associated with metallurgy because the methods of purification of metals were sought during the early stages of metallurgy.

Some or a certain figure developed it and removed the mysticism from alchemy, and established the practical base that modern people can learn and build with a mathematical-mechanical explanation.

I said that science could provide the reasoning behind the character's means of magic. It doesn't make you a master but teaches you how to do it, and perhaps even refined it into a better form because the character has scientific knowledge in a fantasy world, thus providing them with a modern solution. I'd just brush it off with "that universe logic" and not be bothered by it.

This answer was made based on Google and a quick read, so correct me if I'm wrong because I don't even study chemistry and I might misunderstand the purpose of this thread. There's a lack of context too.
 

Aheartofehs

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I don’t know why I’m going on this rant but it’s bugs me so I have to say this Magic and science can be in the same light novel like the cultivation novels with science mcs but cultivation is cultivation and science is science there’s a difference if you know science it doesn’t make you a master at alchemy say hose for for Magic magic is magic it’s works because it’s magic you can explain if with science yes but in the end it’s “MAGIC” so if any authors are reading this please draw a line so People in the don’t say they can master magic because it’s Science ughh I’m getting a headache Trying to put this into words.
Eh. This is like me being bugged out by finding fantasy books that dive into magic and fantasy creatures get classified as science fiction at the library.
 

Schultz_von

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I feel like the moment you can explain magic adequately, it loses its charm. Magic is always associated with wonder, there was a sense of freedom when writing about magic.
 

Jemini

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I don't understand it. Science and Magic are actually completely compatible. The only reason people think they aren't is because IRL there's no scientific evidence for magic, and thus science disagrees with the existence of magic IRL.

If we are set in a fictional world where magic exists, not only would they be able to coexist, they would be able to strengthen one another.

People who don't understand what science is think that science is the products we get from it, chemicals and physics equations. This is wrong. Science is a methodological model of thinking and testing theories which leads to better knowledge about the best ways to go about performing certain actions.

Meanwhile, Magic is a force. A force that can be harnessed into creating phenomena.

Therefore, it should be 100% legit to apply the scientific method to the methods used to harness magic, and thus produce better and more effective magic phenomena.

I really want to see someone write a story like that. I've hinted at the topic in mine, but I'd really love to see someone seriously dive into a magic researcher demonstrating the scientific method as it applies to their field of improving the kinds of spells they can cast.
 

TroubleFait

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I feel like the moment you can explain magic adequately, it loses its charm. Magic is always associated with wonder, there was a sense of freedom when writing about magic.
Interesting point. I feel like I'm not smart enough to know what to say about this, but it is an important point to make.

In fictional worlds, there are multiple ways to defy the natural order of things.

Science fiction is either radically more advanced than the current era like 2001: A Space Odyssey, or blatantly impossible, like steampunk and stargates. But the important thing is it pretends to be possible.

Superpowers are similar to science fiction in that they often pretend to be possible, but come on, Superman is bullshit on multiple levels.
How does he fly, is there an organ for that? Is there an organ for his laser vision? When he lifts a boat from the ocean, do you realise how impossible that is? His hands are what, 700 cm²? If you apply enough force to lift a huge boat on that surface it will pierce through any metal, Superman should fly right through the boat instead of lifting it. But instead of all of that, we just say "he has all of those powers because he's Kryptonian."
It's bullshit like most superpowers. Worm is a notable exception to that rule, go read Worm.

Magic is again a different way to make the impossible possible. Either you explain it with well defined spells, or give it free-form and freedom of application. Either you define it with mana and how it functions, or you leave it in the dark. Either it cam do anything, or it is strictly limited in its application. Think Avatar: The Last Airbender against The Lord Of The Rings. Harry Potter is sort of middle ground between both worlds.

Finally there's my favourite among them. The fantastical. Phenomenons unexplained that defy the rules of normalcy, which make you question your own grasp on reality. "Did it really happen, or are we just going crazy? Maybe Well go to sleep and tomorrow everything will be fine?" The absolute rule in fantastic is never ever tell the audience with certainty what is happening. Always leave a part to their judgement, always leave doubt.
 

TrashyHuman

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I always draw an iron line in the sand between magic (the inexplicable in nature) and the material, including (a set of ideas and theories that explain a part of that which can be explained), so I agree.
Superman is bullshit on multiple levels.
There is a popular fan theory that says Supes is just psychic (i.e telekinesis et al)
 

Schultz_von

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You know, after reading the previous post above,
I said that science could provide the reasoning behind the character's means of magic. It doesn't make you a master but teaches you how to do it, and perhaps even refined it into a better form because the character has scientific knowledge in a fantasy world, thus providing them with a modern solution. I'd just brush it off with "that universe logic" and not be bothered by it.
Meanwhile, Magic is a force. A force that can be harnessed into creating phenomena.

Therefore, it should be 100% legit to apply the scientific method to the methods used to harness magic, and thus produce better and more effective magic phenomena.
Magic is again a different way to make the impossible possible. Either you explain it with well defined spells, or give it free-form and freedom of application.
... I ... just remember we have this trope. Scientifically Understandable Sorcery. Which state:

"Scientifically Understandable Sorcery is when magic is a way of manipulating the world, no different from technology. Its Laws & Mechanics are the Same Physical Laws that the rest of The Universe Abides by. The only mystical or supernatural thing about the change is the force causing it and the method in which it is enacted."
 

Daitengu

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I can really see the difference between "soft magic" and "hard magic" fans.

It's like watching DnD fans disagreeing with WoD Changeling fans on how magic should work.

I read both types cause it's hard enough to get completed stories when it comes to web novels.
 

Echimera

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I can really see the difference between "soft magic" and "hard magic" fans.

It's like watching DnD fans disagreeing with WoD Changeling fans on how magic should work.

I read both types cause it's hard enough to get completed stories when it comes to web novels.
True. A hard magic system will ultimately be explainable by science, even if the author doesn't include that angle.

By their very nature, soft magic will have a hard time being consistent enough to formulate the laws it follows, let alone theories to explain it.

I qlso just realized that a lot of litRPG, for all their numbers and such, seem to lean a lot more towards soft magic.
Probably because they often operate on a 'numbers go brrr' mentality for the OP-MC, and having the option to pull new spells out of their a** without a care for how stuff actually should scale, or logical consistency for what is possible based on precedent, just adds to that.
 

Akasora

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I feel like the moment you can explain magic adequately, it loses its charm. Magic is always associated with wonder, there was a sense of freedom when writing about magic.
And Science is understanding of the Wonder and that's Magical.
 

ConansWitchBaby

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For the superman thing. It literally is an organ that allows stuff to happen. It creates a field like a dumbed down speedforce.

Magic is magic and science is science. They can help one another but they are still mutually exclusive. Even a basic fireball spell that people who like to go the hard magic route ignore needs something to actively burn. If not then, heated are with an illusion spell on it to make it look like fire. But at that point why? Just keep it invisible for more damage possibilities.

I'm trying to steer clear of this confusion myself by having an off-hand comment in the first chapter about how it should be impossible for the MC to walk around missing most of his leg. He just shrugs it off as it being magic and physics not making any sense.
 
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