Mercy or Vengeance

Is getting revenge a virtue? Pick the letter number combination that matches your opinion/worldveiw.

  • A1

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • A2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • B1

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • B2

    Votes: 14 38.9%
  • B3

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • B4

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • C1

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • C2

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • C3

    Votes: 3 8.3%
  • C4

    Votes: 7 19.4%

  • Total voters
    36

SternenklarenRitter

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What are the practical and moral implications of getting revenge? When is mercy a better or worse choice when the opportunity presents itself? I've been feeling lots of readers are rather bloodthirsty towards antagonists lately, so I felt curious. Although most of these are true at least some of the time, pick the options you personally feel are most correct under the most situations.

A-Getting revenge is a moral obligation. Concrete proof of punishment keeps people from doing dastardly deeds in the first place.
B-Getting revenge is a personal matter. The victim themself should decide based on their individual preferences and the circumstances at hand whether or not to seek revenge and to what extent.
C-Mercy is the moral highroad. Revenge is a cycle that perpetuates disrespect and intolerance.

1- Seeking and extracting revenge earns you, at minimum, the respect and admiration of your peers.
2- Getting revenge has about an even chance of practical gain or loss, or both the risk and the reward of revenge have little value.
3- Seeking revenge is a futile endeavor. The target of revenge is generally out of reach, making vengeance an impossible goal.
4- Seeking revenge, whether personally or through your country of residence's justice system, can be expected to place you in significant financial or even physical danger.
 

Paul_Tromba

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As a follower of Christ, I have to live by C4. Love and kindness to all. Can't even enact violence for self-defense. Personally, I see revenge as a form of emotional weakness as the person lacks the ability to forgive and move on with their life. That is not to say that I do not understand certain reasons for revenge but I would rather not take part in them.
 

Ilikewaterkusa

You have to take out their families...
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What are the practical and moral implications of getting revenge? When is mercy a better or worse choice when the opportunity presents itself? I've been feeling lots of readers are rather bloodthirsty towards antagonists lately, so I felt curious. Although most of these are true at least some of the time, pick the options you personally feel are most correct under the most situations.

A-Getting revenge is a moral obligation. Concrete proof of punishment keeps people from doing dastardly deeds in the first place.
B-Getting revenge is a personal matter. The victim themself should decide based on their individual preferences and the circumstances at hand whether or not to seek revenge and to what extent.
C-Mercy is the moral highroad. Revenge is a cycle that perpetuates disrespect and intolerance.

1- Seeking and extracting revenge earns you, at minimum, the respect and admiration of your peers.
2- Getting revenge has about an even chance of practical gain or loss, or both the risk and the reward of revenge have little value.
3- Seeking revenge is a futile endeavor. The target of revenge is generally out of reach, making vengeance an impossible goal.
4- Seeking revenge, whether personally or through your country of residence's justice system, can be expected to place you in significant financial or even physical danger.
Depends on the situation. If it’s against a pedo satanist like those who rule over us A1 all the fûcking way.
 

Sp4de

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As a follower of Christ, I have to live by C4. Love and kindness to all. Can't even enact violence for self-defense. Personally, I see revenge as a form of emotional weakness as the person lacks the ability to forgive and move on with their life. That is not to say that I do not understand certain reasons for revenge but I would rather not take part in them.
I somewhat agreed with you until you lost me at not enacting violence even for self defense. Coming from the same position, I know the bible dictates that it is your moral obligation to protect yourself, and especially, your family. Unhinged violence is absolutely permitted in those situations. Now, if you are acting in the name of God, and let's say you are specifically being persecuted for that, then no, violence is not permitted. As for revenge, I hold a standard of forgiving but not forgetting. Personally I'm not hell bent on revenge, but instead becoming better so that it may never happen again. In a way that would be taking the moral highground, but I'm still not doing nothing about it.
 

Paul_Tromba

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I somewhat agreed with you until you lost me at not enacting violence even for self defense. Coming from the same position, I know the bible dictates that it is your moral obligation to protect yourself, and especially, your family. Unhinged violence is absolutely permitted in those situations. Now, if you are acting in the name of God, and let's say you are specifically being persecuted for that, then no, violence is not permitted. As for revenge, I hold a standard of forgiving but not forgetting. Personally I'm not hell bent on revenge, but instead becoming better so that it may never happen again. In a way that would be taking the moral highground, but I'm still not doing nothing about it.
That is fair. I respect it and understand. However, I personally go by the actions of the early church during their persecution as it was rare for them to defend themselves physically due to being commanded to turn the other cheek and forgive them. Those of which who defended themselves violently were considered to be giving into their human desires. No matter what reason they may be attacking me, I know my love and kindness towards someone, even in those moments of suffering, will show that I am living my life as Christ did. I am not controlled by the will of the flesh but of the spirit. Protecting your family is a responsibility but who said it needs to be done with violence? Violence may be the answer for the enemy but it will not be my answer. this is not a condemnation of your beliefs but is simply the conclusion I have come to after years of study and seminary for what a Christian lifestyle should be, nothing more as this does not make or break any person's faith.
 
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Prince_Azmiran_Myrian

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I somewhat agreed with you until you lost me at not enacting violence even for self defense. Coming from the same position, I know the bible dictates that it is your moral obligation to protect yourself, and especially, your family. Unhinged violence is absolutely permitted in those situations. Now, if you are acting in the name of God, and let's say you are specifically being persecuted for that, then no, violence is not permitted. As for revenge, I hold a standard of forgiving but not forgetting. Personally I'm not hell bent on revenge, but instead becoming better so that it may never happen again. In a way that would be taking the moral highground, but I'm still not doing nothing about it.

That is fair. I respect it and understand. However, I personally go by the actions of the early church during their persecution as it was rare for them to defend themselves physically due to being commanded to turn the other cheek and forgive them. Those of which who defended themselves violently were considered to be giving into their human desires. No matter what reason they may be attacking me, I know my love and kindness towards someone, even in those moments of suffering, will show that I am living my life as Christ did. I am not controlled by the will of the flesh but of the spirit. Protecting your family is a responsibility but who said it needs to be done with violence? Violence may be the answer for the enemy but it will not be my answer.
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
Romans 12:19 NKJV
 
D

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As a follower of Christ, I have to live by C4. Love and kindness to all. Can't even enact violence for self-defense. Personally, I see revenge as a form of emotional weakness as the person lacks the ability to forgive and move on with their life. That is not to say that I do not understand certain reasons for revenge but I would rather not take part in them.
Oh! A fellow Christian!

Btw, I go by C3. In my line of work, I've seen a lot revenge stories that ended up even worse than the original sin of the person itself, not because the target is out of reach.

The option not to take revenge is a moral high ground, which in my religion and belief is what we aim for. I don't look at someone who wants revenge with judgmental eyes, though honestly, I believe vengeance is just an extra work that offers (in most cases often; I'd like to give exception to murder/rape cases) short-term satisfaction but long-term disadvantage.
 
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georgelee5786

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B4. Ultimately, whether or not someone pursues that is their own choice, but they should keep in mind the potential danger they might find.
 

Gryphon

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I'm a C4 myself. I just don't understand the act of revenge. Like imagine this scenario

Someone comes into your house and kills your significant other. They evade the law and get out scot free. You then find their address, and carrying a gun by your waist, you head to their home. You shoot them between the eyes in front of the killers daughter, and escape before anyone knows it was you who did it. You get away scot free, and the daughter eventually grows up.

She doesn't know that her father killed your significant other, so they come after you. But by then, you've already moved on. Married once more. Had a new kid. Then one day the daughter comes in guns blazing, and kills you, leaves, and your kid vows revenge back. The cycle continues until someone gets arrested or one person in the line of blood and guns decides to leave the trail of crimson behind.

All revenge does is create a cycle of violence that won't ever go away until someone decides to leave the violence behind.
 

TheEldritchGod

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You left out a few things.

1. Caring- what if i am just too lazy to get revenge?

2. What is revenge?

3. Why revenge?

Look, lets face facts, punishing crimes isnt about justice fir the individual. It is for the good of society. If you ignore crimes are not worth the effort, you get the shithole that is current California.

A Democrat run city, in a Democrat run state with a Democrat run federal government. Crime of all sorts that are considered unimportant are ignored. When you ignore minor crimes, greater crimes are emboldened.

We give government the power of violence so that we don't die having to fight our own battles. If you live in a world of might makes right, only a few will ever win. But if everyone else gangs up on the mighty, they lose. Violence is very random. You never know what the outcome will be with any certainty.

The good street fighters i knew never picked fights, but when they saw one coming, they hit first, hard, and took no chances because they knew how easy it was to die.

It is easy to die. My step father had a suitcase land on his head at a hotel. He ignored it and died an hour later. The dumbest way to die. Killed by tying your shoe up against your closet.

People have no clue how easy it is to die. We live in a very safe world. 60% infant mortality used to be the norm, everyone.

So we work to minimize risk. We give the tools of violence as nd justice to the government. But if the government doesnt do its job, people take those tools back.

That is when you start getting people seeking vengeance.

Justice, as far as society is concerned is about creating stability if society. Individual justice diesnt really exist. Very few people are capable of really understaning the concept, much less seek out what is fair. When most people speak of fairness, it actually is, unfair, but to their benefit.

I think it would just be best to stick to making life unfair for everyone. Everyone should cheat like bastards to make life as unfair to their advantage as possible, as long as you don't tear someone else down in the process, and you leave the world a better place than you found it.

The provlem is, people assume there is a zero sum game. If i win, someone else has to lose, right?

No. There is more value being added to the world every day. If we just stopped stabbing each other in the back, everyone could benefit, but, alas, people buy into the lies and we all suffer for it.

Its the nature of man.
I'm a C4 myself. I just don't understand the act of revenge. Like imagine this scenario

Someone comes into your house and kills your significant other. They evade the law and get out scot free. You then find their address, and carrying a gun by your waist, you head to their home. You shoot them between the eyes in front of the killers daughter, and escape before anyone knows it was you who did it. You get away scot free, and the daughter eventually grows up.

She doesn't know that her father killed your significant other, so they come after you. But by then, you've already moved on. Married once more. Had a new kid. Then one day the daughter comes in guns blazing, and kills you, leaves, and your kid vows revenge back. The cycle continues until someone gets arrested or one person in the line of blood and guns decides to leave the trail of crimson behind.

All revenge does is create a cycle of violence that won't ever go away until someone decides to leave the violence behind.
Nonsense.

There are other forms if revenge other than murder, for example, turning someone's daughter against them. Getting the daughter to become an only fans star, finding out what the other person loves and destroying it. Going to his job and getting him fired.

Digging up his dead mother and repossessing the jewelry she was buried with to pay off the money he owed after he laughed at you as a bill collector, saying you will never get the money bitch then he hung up on you.

Who's a bitch now? I even sent him a bill for the backhoe to dig his mother up. How you like me now, asshole. Pay your damn credit card, fucker.

...

Ahem.

The point is, it is easy to get revenge and get away with it. Rarely does it come back to haunt you. I have done horrible things to people for over a decade. Digging up someone's dead mom was one of the funnier, but hardly the worst thing I did.

Hurting people is easy. Getting away with it is even easier. Don't kid yourselves into thinking the whole cycle of revenge exists. It is a story trope, but in real life, almost never happens.

Most people lose, get beaten down, then become broken. Losing a loved one does not inspire most people to seek revenge. Most people just get depressed and have psychological issues.
 
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Anon2024

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I'm in between A+B and 2.
I don't think there is much individual gain or loss depending on circumstance but I do feel revenge is an obligation of sorts. If we forgive all the evil people who are not sorry and have no course correction, they'll continue to be evil and continue to destroy society.

Mercy is only applicable when there is course correction.

Just look at the corruption of our politicians. They've run so rampant that people are angry over things they shouldn't even be angry about and no one goes to shut them up for libel.
 

Novel_Fam

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As a follower of Christ, I have to live by C4. Love and kindness to all. Can't even enact violence for self-defense. Personally, I see revenge as a form of emotional weakness as the person lacks the ability to forgive and move on with their life. That is not to say that I do not understand certain reasons for revenge but I would rather not take part in them.
I agree with you completely especially when my religion’s prophet stated that you should forgive and move one within three days which shows us that holding grudges will affect our emotions as we try to live on :)
 

Anon2024

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You know this reminds me of that saying:

"An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind."

But I say: "If the whole world goes blind from that, then the whole world is stupid."

If you see someone else lose an eye for taking an eye and you realize there is risk to taking someone's eye, then why would you make yourself lose an eye for that? Unless you want to lose your eye.

If we first want to define what is good punishment for wrong doing then we have to first discuss and define what "revenge" is. Some revenge is good revenge, some revenge is needed and you're morally obligated to take it for the benefit of society... while some revenge is bad revenge. I have to say @SternenklarenRitter... this question is just too open ended.
 

Bartun

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Luckily I saw this because that's precisely what I'm writing about now. I got bashed a few times because my protagonist decided to not seek revenge for the murder of her mentor, sparing the murderer's life because "that's the right thing" leaving him to the authorities to seek justice, only for it to bite her in the ass later.

I understand both points of view but readers seem to go for the desire for vengeance so much that they bash your work when that doesn't happen. At least that's what I got.

In real life, seeking revenge is a lot more troublesome than in fantasy. There are rare cases though, of people going after murderers and rapists and delivering swift retribution that the justice system failed. They make great headlines but those cases are rare.

Having your payback for lesser offenses, however, is far more common. People get revenge against former bosses, estranged family members, or pretty much anyone that wronged them. Is so easy to ruin people's lives nowadays and even easier to get away with it thanks to social media. Heck, is so easy to ruin someone's life even if he did nothing to you. It's scary.

I prefer not to stress with petty revenge, especially if it is for some minor offense. Of course, we don't get our spouses killed or our kids kidnapped too often. But we get envied, scammed, betrayed, and cheated on far more often. Is up to us if we decide to let those things consume us from the inside. Most people let go and move on, or they go to court too.

At least, that's what I figure.
 

K5Rakitan

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The goal should be to prevent the person who hurt you from hurting others. The question is how much we trust our world's justice system to accomplish that goal. Revenge can coexist with the goal of preventing someone from hurting others but should not be the sole motivator. If the person who hurt us is truly sorry and capable of controlling their future actions, then we must lay aside notions of revenge.
 

RockiesRetriever

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I differentiate revenge - a rabid desire to "get even" with someone, with justice, someone getting consequences deserving their actions.

If we think of a system that prioritizes justice, imagine perhaps, that it was impossible to commit a crime and get away with it - people would get exactly what they deserve. If the punishment for drinking alcohol underage was, I dunno, a $100 fine or something, that would be perfect justice. If you do something bad, you get the requisite punishment.

We start to consider though if someone drank alcohol on accident - or if they were coerced into doing so - or if its really right to have a punishment rather a warning for such an offense. It starts to seem a bit unfair - this is only a minor offense. We can only think of the horrible unpleasant circumstances that can arise with much more serious crimes.

Lets think then of a system that prioritizes mercy. It means that people are no longer held to such impossible standards. You can rest easy now because you won't be immediately struck with the hammer just for a first offense or some such. However, it means that every killer gets to go free. We want to be kind and not want to inflict pain on others correct? But what of the families of victims of awful crimes? Is it fair to someone who is robbed for the burglar to get off scot free? Even if all the stolen items are returned, the experience still caused duress to the victim of the crime.


The answer I think is obvious in this situation, that a balance of both extremes is needed. I say balance not in a sense of perfectly in the middle, but something fluctuating according to circumstance. Whether justice or mercy should be exercised requires empathy, understanding of those who have committed wrong, and those who have wronged.

We need consequences in order to be better people. If a parent is going to give a child a donut whether or not they clean their room, that child is not going to learn to the right things.

But in other circumstances, mercy is important. It has a powerful affect, and when given genuinely, it can incite change on the part of the person who did wrong.


I think for anyone who is analyzing my philosophy on this will probably decipher pretty quickly that this is all heavily based in Christian theology ( although that isn't to say that it is unique to that, the golden rule for example is found in many cultures ). I believe, being clear on my beliefs, that the unfairness in the world will be made right in the hereafter. That it is not for us to decide who we need to get revenge against, but God who should decide. In the end, the person will get appropriate consequences for what they have done.


But in this present time, we have the challenge that we must manage these questions in our biased, error-prone human society. All I can say is that we must try our best. Whether on a societal or individual level we must try to correctly apply justice and mercy in the right places and times. We must remember things like that we can be merciful towards someone without giving someone our full trust.

Generally, I try to see the best in people. I'm well aware of the fact that there are a great many evil people in this world, both publicly and privately, but the vast majority of people I think can be dealt with in a kinder manner, where I'm seeking to understand them the best I can. We don't have to perfectly agree and support everything everyone does, and I think that is not a particularly good course of action, but I think it would promote a lot more good feelings in the world if we were willing to be kind to those we disagreed with, even when we may feel that they totally deserve harsh consequences.

Someday someone will feel that you have wronged them, and you will want to be treated with mercy. It is something I try to remember in all my interaction with people.
 

SternenklarenRitter

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It seems like a lot of us don't have especially strong feelings about revenge, with nearly 40% of us picking b2, although we do seem to agree it is not a virtue. I wonder if being hurt badly enough to even want revenge is a bit far removed from our experiences to even form a strong opinion? I picked c3 myself; I believe that because revenge is not something easily or quickly obtained, it leads the victim's thoughts to stagnate and fester.
 
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