Modular Feedback system

[Devils.Advocate]

First, to be clear, I have not published anything, I am not an author, I read, but largely I don't rate, I don't comment, and I don't write feedbacks unless I am asked directly. Because I don't give out unsolicited feedbacks. Soooo.... I am not too hung up on the ratings, the trendings, the troll, the non-trolls, the harassments, the discriminations, the blind rabid fans, the hatred, the love, the lust and the repulsions.

BUT I do I like seeing if it is possible to create the best human experience.... where possible

And honestly, I have no idea if this is a good idea.

This idea is based on the line of thought, "IF YOU PUBLISH ONLINE YOU MUST BE WILLING TO ACCEPT ALL FORMS OF CRITICISM" While I am not sure if the is a good line of thought, I find this world view to be too... lazy? Irresponsible? Heartless?.... and authors lose some part of what makes writing joyus by subscribing to this paradigm.

BUT IF I were to run with it.

This is the system I can propose.

Authors have the power to manage the following settings

Opt-out of the rating system completely.
Opt-out of all comments on chapters.
Opt-out of reviews
Opt-out of trending

Secondary settings
Authors can:
exchange star ratings for a Like / dislike system

This is, of course, a feature moves the author more into isolation from the readers. HOWEVER, that has traditionally been how authors worked., works are assessed after it is done, and often are quite distant from the consumer.

Also, I am not saying we should be silencing the reader's comments, but readers have a wide variety of options to make their voices heard. they free to make a thread and we've dedicated websites to voice their thoughts, etc etc.

But I do think, in this line of thought, authors should not feel obligated or forced to hear it. Therefore, an author should have the freedom to choose to hear all feedback or not, good and bad.

At some time if they opt-in to be rated, to have the highs, they will need to accept the lows....?

Is this a good train of thought? For authors that turn off feedbacks and get feedback only when they ask for it, what is the downside of it? Can someone troubleshoot this?

Yes, and of course should an author opt-out they will still be in searching ranks under View counts, trending (unless they are opt-out) and other pure numerical stats.

Which lead to a follow-up question, should authors in this modular system, have the ability to Opt-out View count ranking, and Tag rankings as well??

EDIT:
Suggested addition
@LostLibrarian: Opting out of any review and ratings also link to opting out to treading, can't do one without the other
@Aaky: block patreon, paypal, and ko-fi whenever you disable comments and reviews
@UYScuti instead to just make ratings and review invisible to the writer/author

 

[bigbear51]

If an author wants to turn off feedback then that's on them. But I think you're missing the point on the other threads of people thinking they're being trolls because they state that they do indeed want feedback. It's just simply that they want to change the system to deal with that.

 

[CL]

Opt-out of the rating system completely.
Opt-out of all comments on chapters.
Opt-out of reviews
Opt-out of trending

Authors don't have a choice in this, currently. I like your first idea.

As it is now, it's like being told: "If you don't want this portion on you plate, then ignore the scoop and move on."
I'm like: "Okay, but why are you plopping that on my plate?"
And I get: "You don't want this? Tough. We all have to eat it and so do you."

 

[Devils.Advocate]

you're missing the point on the other threads of people thinking they're being trolls

Hmm? Other threads? Which one? I missed the point on a different thread... A thread that I did not read, or pay attention to? Now I feel ridiculous...

Anyway jokes aside, which thread are you referring to, coz there are quite a few?

 

[bigbear51]

so what are the rules in regards to comments in chapters. just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole comment chain

just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole thread because he doent want critic and literally told somebody to "please fuck off" logged in today and the whole thing is just gone. does the author have jurisdiction in the comment section? makes sense I guess but the dudes way of handling...

forum.scribblehub.com

There's this one, which I guess is simply the current one of the bunch. Specifically pointing to the Cupcake guy's parts since he makes mention of it.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

so what are the rules in regards to comments in chapters. just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole comment chain

just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole thread because he doent want critic and literally told somebody to "please fuck off" logged in today and the whole thing is just gone. does the author have jurisdiction in the comment section? makes sense I guess but the dudes way of handling...

forum.scribblehub.com

There's this one, which I guess is simply the current one of the bunch. Specifically pointing to the Cupcake guy's parts since he makes mention of it.

interesting.. i am still not 100% sure how this thread, of making a suggestion, both miss the point, but relate to another discussion on another thread...

if i miss the point, doesn't it just mean.. it unrelated...

strangely I really feel like making some apple pie, I think it will turn out really well.

...
......
..

@CupcakeNinja WTF!?
I am really confused?
I am i tapping into the deterministic zeitgeist of inevitability?

Is this suggestion the ultimate singularty after months and months of thread about trolls and subjective vs objective feedback, compounded by author distasifaction, multiplied by human competitive nature, divided by immediacy of the internet medium?

How can i miss the point when i don't know what the point is'!?!?

 

[CL]

so what are the rules in regards to comments in chapters. just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole comment chain

just had what i assume is the author deleting a whole thread because he doent want critic and literally told somebody to "please fuck off" logged in today and the whole thing is just gone. does the author have jurisdiction in the comment section? makes sense I guess but the dudes way of handling...

forum.scribblehub.com

There's this one, which I guess is simply the current one of the bunch. Specifically pointing to the Cupcake guy's parts since he makes mention of it.

Thanks for directing me there. I wasn't going to comment in there when I first discovered it, but after all that has been said...

 

[UYScuti]

IDK. I can understand having something that allows you to lock comments on your story. But I’m not so sure about ratings and reviews. I don’t think those should be locked.

If the author does not want to read the reviews or see their rating, perhaps give authors the option of not being notified, or not being able to see their ratings.

HOWEVER, that has traditionally been how authors worked., works are assessed after it is done, and often are quite distant from the consumer.

Trad authors don’t have to deal with ratings or reviews until their book is complete because they don’t publish their work until it’s complete. We post by chapter.

If I go on goodreads, I can go to a book and rate it whatever I want without leaving a review, or I can tear the book apart. This isn’t so different, but generally people pay for those books, so they’ll take the reviews/rating a little more seriously.

Sometimes we get bad ratings. Sometimes we will get bad reviews. Some of it may not be warranted. But this happens to everyone once they put their work out there. It sucks to have something you worked on trashed, but the internet is not a safe space.

We have to accept that placing yourself out there comes with good and bad. So give the option to lock the comments or make them invisible to the author somehow, and turn off review/rating notifications. I think something like that can help authors who only want to write because it’s fun for them and they figured they’d share.

I’m fine with authors having the ability to delete comments. If things are becoming toxic and off topic, then get rid of it. Reviews, I think those should only be removed by a mod or Tony if they believe it’s more an attack on the author than the book or it’s particularly nasty.

If you’re looking for feedback, though, or looking to improve, prepare yourself, because you may not like what people have to say.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Is this suggestion the ultimate singularty after months and months of thread about trolls and subjective vs objective feedback, compounded by author distasifaction, multiplied by human competitive nature, divided by immediacy of the internet medium?

yep.All these cunts had their chance to be helpful, and they ruined it. Now we gotta impose restrictions. Lock the review system, appoint official reviewers verified as responsible by mods, require one to read AT LEAST three chapters before you can even post a review to begin with, each review needing a minimum of 50 words.

We're going entirely totalitarian up in this bitch, yo. It ain't what I wanna do, but its what every one of these lazy, toxic, non-helpful assholes out there are forcing me to do!

 

[LostLibrarian]

I would agree with it, as long as no comments/ratings also means no trending or other lists.

If people don't want "negativity" because they write for fun, they should also ne fine with not taking Center Stage...

 

[Devils.Advocate]

@UYScuti
I don't... think... I disagree with you, and I think in my mind, it largely goes with the question "is it better to love and lost or to never have loved at 'all"

Trad authors don’t have to deal with ratings or reviews until their book is complete because they don’t publish their work until it’s complete. We post by chapter.

And what I am grappling with is the nature of learning and improving for author and creative community. And also the desired for works to exist.

My view is that (Disclaimer: my current view at this moment in time), there is value completing a piece of work...

For hobbyists, I wonder? do they look to improve? What if all they want is to yell into the ether? Is there value for the readers' community for a piece of work to purely exist, where the author is "dead"?

It is a learning experience for an author if they get no evaluation and simply complete it? Is it a worthy experience to finish, to write a beginning middle and an end, just to release... something... into the world?

I think what I don't want... is that regardless of the story is good or bad... I rather the author stop voluntarily rather that feel driven to give up, by words that that know they do not feel they need...

If that makes sense.

I suppose, people can say, that's just the way the world is. or that's just life... I guess I am wondering.... does it have to be this way...

 

[Aaky]

This is stupid.

I would like to see this block patreon, paypal, and ko-fi whenever you disable comments and reviews.

 

[Leti]

BUT I do I like seeing if it is possible to create the best human experience.... where possible

How about people who rejected their humanity? What do they experience in this site?

 

[Devils.Advocate]

I would like to see this block patreon, paypal, and ko-fi whenever you disable comments and reviews.

Certainly viable. But I am interested in why it matters? Care to elaborate?

I mean I imagine, (perhaps wrongly,) if a person that writes for fun, that's just like to share, with little care for comments or quality, will unlike to be looking to make any money, Thus unlikely to have patreon, paypal, and ko-fi...

And although, I understand @LostLibrarian 's point, of someone that gives up the "spotlight" or "engagement" with readers, being excluded from "trending" is a logical extension. But I am not quite sure what part does money play in this equation... I am not for or against, just don't understand why it matters at all...

This is stupid.

Which part? All of it? The motive? The suggestion? the execution? The typos? The way the ideas presented?

if "Stupid" is "having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense." Does that mean my opening post shows a great lack of intelligence? In what way? In intelligence or common sense?

If you were to unpack and examine the paradigm of reader-writer relationship where would you begin?
Or is that a stupid question?
Is it an act of "stupid", to try to understand the world we live in?
Or was the weird part where... @bigbear51 thought I missed the point on a thread that I didn't read... was that part stupid?
Or is it something else?
Is it stupid, because I am wondering about things that are common sense, and me asking the question is an act of stupidity...
Or are the people commenting on this thread stupid.

For this unenlightened one please grace me with this converted knowledge, tell me the secrets of the world beyond those three words "this is stupid"

I am not as knowledgable in human nature and how the world works to be able to deduce what you are referring to, where does the stupid begin and where does it end?

What do they experience in this site?

Depends on the extent to which they reject said humanity. But honestly, I'd start with quality of life. Which are pretty much the first suggestion I made. So...the lowest tier on the pyramid of needs?

 

[Toomanysorrows]

Honestly, this seems like the best solution to the whole thing, without really any downside. But I'm not sure it's the kind of thing that would get implemented soon, or at all. It's a lot of work for something other sites like this already aren't offering, and isn't really perceived as a need, just a way to make the experience more fun than it is right now.

 

[Moonpearl]

Reviews are for readers, not writers, so it would be a bad idea to let people opt out of those. It lets readers warn potential newcomers not only about the quality of the novel, but also if the author lied about the genres of their novel or tried to trick readers into reading triggering material like rape scenes.

But, honestly, you cannot avoid receiving feedback as an author, no matter how hard you try. It's pointless to aspire to it. You'd be better off putting your time into preparing yourself to cope with it, so you can recover as quickly as possible, or even remain unaffected.

Getting knocked down by people disliking your work, whether because it's bad or because it's not to their taste, is just part of the journey. Newbies will almost always hit a point where they stop writing for a while. This will happen no matter what, either because they received negative feedback, because they received no feedback, or because they started criticising themselves in the absence of anyone else to do it.

Whether you give up or get back on your feet again is what defines you as a writer. It's impossible to shield people from this.

 

[LostLibrarian]

just a way to make the experience more fun than it is right now.

The thing is: these sites (obviously) live of the "free contributions" of authors. For a lot of other sites you have so many readers and authors, that it isn't that big a deal if some authors stop due to not having fun.

For SH, die overall community is smaller. Even more so the subset here in the forum, where mostly authors discuss with each other. So of course making the site a better experience for (some) authors will always be the hot topic.


Right now, every small inconvenience is a big topic. Let the site grow for a while and those will become so numerous, people will accept the smaller cases. Like other sites rather discuss the trending algorithm for months... :D

 

[Aaky]

The thing is: these sites (obviously) live of the "free contributions" of authors. For a lot of other sites you have so many readers and authors, that it isn't that big a deal if some authors stop due to not having fun.

For SH, die overall community is smaller. Even more so the subset here in the forum, where mostly authors discuss with each other. So of course making the site a better experience for (some) authors will always be the hot topic.


Right now, every small inconvenience is a big topic. Let the site grow for a while and those will become so numerous, people will accept the smaller cases. Like other sites rather discuss the trending algorithm for months... :D

No other website allows you to escape comments and ratings. SH is not a safe-space. Deleting comments is already powerful enough. If anything the star system needs to be changed, since people just leave blank ratings. It would help writers more if ratings were public.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Reviews are for readers, not writers, so it would be a bad idea to let people opt out of those. It lets readers warn potential newcomers not only about the quality of the novel, but also if the author lied about the genres of their novel or tried to trick readers into reading triggering material like rape scenes.

Indeed, reviews are for readers, not writers, but I wonder...

Just on this point that follows, yes review and ratings attempt to give people a vague sense of what readers are walking in terms of quality. But on the point of author lying about genres and triggering materials...

First I am unaware the this happens. My question is: Do review and rating effectively police that? Are Genre labels, tags, and "report" button, not sufficient? Do authors actually try to lie about their content?

From my point of view, there are readers that are out looking for triggering material. Hmm.... is it counterproductive to lie, since if writers don't tag correctly will attract lots of people that drop the novel, where tagged correctly will have readers that stay on as readers, right?

I agree, this is a valid point, but is the author that lies, is that common existence or an outlier like a cereal killer in a small town?

honestly, you cannot avoid receiving feedback as an author, no matter how hard you try. It's pointless to aspire to it. You'd be better off putting your time into preparing yourself to cope with it, so you can recover as quickly as possible, or even remain unaffected.

I fully agree with that.

I am assuming, and maybe incorrectly so,
@Aaky brought in the element of money, this alludes to the connection to payment in kind, that there is an unspoken professional transaction and being judged is a price that authors should pay.

And both you and @UYScuti both have pointed out being a writer there is no escape, it comes with the territory.

There is this image of what a writer, what and the author is...

But what I am wondering is, what place is there in the world for people that "write" but do not identify as "authors" or "writers". I personally, just enjoy the act of writing, putting ideas into sentences. And I do not identify as an author, I do not publish, I don't "write", I have no intention of sharing what I have written over the years. Cos I am only writing for fun. for myself and I am happy with that.

Things that I have written, I see no value in it. If there is a fire, and burn all the books I have written, I will be heartbroken, but I don't feel like my writing is of any value to the world, and it's no real loss to others. To the world at large, I'd' say, "One can not cry over milk that doesn't exist."

BUT in a great act of hypocrisy, I don't feel the same way about other people's work. I think I value work for just being written, I appreciate, writers' act of simply writing. And the result of the writing, musings, fancies it is a testimony of the times and feelings of an individual.

So to these works unseen due to the fear of judgement, to give writers the choice to choose what amount of judgement they receive, is this a good thing? Will more publish if that is the case? I wonder, should writers be given a choice in this?


And to the point:

Newbies will almost always hit a point where they stop writing for a while. This will happen no matter what, either because they received negative feedback, because they received no feedback, or because they started criticising themselves in the absence of anyone else to do it.

I sense that this is true, but amongst all the possibility of a person stop writing, why does "negative feedback, because they received no feedback," need to be one of the reason? Is a thing I often wondered.

What is the happy medium that makes the most people happy?

And just before anyone says "start your own website" I am not trying to make SH something it is not, I am not advocating this suggestion, but simply unpacking its contents and see what it means to people.

However, this is just a personal thing, whenever someone says, "that's just the way it is" "That is what it means to be a ________"

I feel that it's not a sufficient answer to how the world works. "Why?" is often what I wonder s'all. Why do we need to adhere to tradition, if it makes people unhappy? why does it work that way? Is unhappiness the norm. if so, Why what is the value of this unhappiness? What is the nature of the system? Is it good to question it?

Oh and on the note on depriving readers of review and rating,
I am not saying "Fuck the reader, Field of Dreams, bitch! If I build it they will come"
BUT I am saying a choice could be given, so writers the onus can be on the writers to say if they want to "FUCK" the readers or not.

Plus, I think rather than the binary, I am looking at variance, The answer of the level of engagement between readers and authors, can it be managed or is the answer a simple binary to publish accept it all or not publish and get none.

Hmm...
I feel Iike I keep derailing myself a lot ... in my post

 

[UYScuti]

But what I am wondering is, what place is there in the world for people that "write" but do not identify as "authors" or "writers".

This is why I believe writers should have options. If you are only writing and posting for fun, and don’t care about what people say, then have a way to lock your comments and make the ratings/reviews invisible to you.

Generally, ratings/reviews are not meant for writers, they’re meant for readers, so I don’t agree with locking ratings/reviews.

I don’t believe a story should be removed from consideration on trending, nor do I believe the ability to link to patreon/ko-fi should be removed. If people are willing to give you money even though you’ve locked comments, then fine. If people are still willing to read your story enough to bring it to trending despite locking comments, then so be it.

This is not me saying suck it up or have thicker skin. I’m just stating the way humans work. You will be criticized for anything you do in your life that someone else is able to witness. Your writing is no different. If you don’t want to see the criticisms, then block them out somehow.