novels shouldn't coddle you

TotallyHuman

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I had an idle talk with someone today. As a first class closeted introverted misanthropist, I don't talk to others much. So the talk went something like this:
"So, wanna talk about anything?"
"What exactly?"
"Do you watch TV shows, for example?"
"I don't"
"Read books?"
"Yeah. But they aren't worth talking about. They are the literary equivalent of TV shows"
"What? What kinds of books are those?"
"Well... low level stuff"
"Like, textbooks?"
"No, more like junkfood"
Which was around where the conversation ended, plus minus margin of error.
When I came home, I remembered it, and decided that maybe reading more of these kinds of books - or, rather, consuming this kind of monotonous homogenous mass of content in text form, is not a good idea, and, maybe, it'd do me good to cut down on that and visit the church more instead (or something).
Well, I've never been that good at drastic changes to life - which is why I am here, writing this forum thread instead of taking a long walk in the nearby park.
Anyway, what makes the books I read "junkfood"? Because these kinds of books coddle me (replace "me" and "I" in this line with "you" and see if it still makes sense)
Books should hurt you. They shouldn't make you feel comfortable.
A novel where most my ideals are affirmed and where the author bends over backwards to make sure that the characters get rewarded for living according to them make me feel comfortable. But like a bag of cheetos, you don't notice when it is gone and it lacks substance.
A novel that brutally beats me down and critisises the logical flaws in my ideals of how things should be are not comfortable to read but they are like a steak - you have to work your teeth on it and will get more nutrition from eating it than from doing a whole bag of cheetos.
So I guess I will try going for novels that will make me want to not read them. Who knows, maybe I will dislike the process enough to not want to read novels again, huh?
 

LilRora

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I believe I could sum that rant up into the simple fact (or maybe opinion, depends who you ask) that books should be read for their content, not for pure enjoyment, and consequently you should explore various genres that bring something new and something you can think through, then learn from it and develop.
 

lnv

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I had an idle talk with someone today. As a first class closeted introverted misanthropist, I don't talk to others much. So the talk went something like this:
"So, wanna talk about anything?"
"What exactly?"
"Do you watch TV shows, for example?"
"I don't"
"Read books?"
"Yeah. But they aren't worth talking about. They are the literary equivalent of TV shows"
"What? What kinds of books are those?"
"Well... low level stuff"
"Like, textbooks?"
"No, more like junkfood"
Which was around where the conversation ended, plus minus margin of error.
When I came home, I remembered it, and decided that maybe reading more of these kinds of books - or, rather, consuming this kind of monotonous homogenous mass of content in text form, is not a good idea, and, maybe, it'd do me good to cut down on that and visit the church more instead (or something).
Well, I've never been that good at drastic changes to life - which is why I am here, writing this forum thread instead of taking a long walk in the nearby park.
Anyway, what makes the books I read "junkfood"? Because these kinds of books coddle me (replace "me" and "I" in this line with "you" and see if it still makes sense)
Books should hurt you. They shouldn't make you feel comfortable.
A novel where most my ideals are affirmed and where the author bends over backwards to make sure that the characters get rewarded for living according to them make me feel comfortable. But like a bag of cheetos, you don't notice when it is gone and it lacks substance.
A novel that brutally beats me down and critisises the logical flaws in my ideals of how things should be are not comfortable to read but they are like a steak - you have to work your teeth on it and will get more nutrition from eating it than from doing a whole bag of cheetos.
So I guess I will try going for novels that will make me want to not read them. Who knows, maybe I will dislike the process enough to not want to read novels again, huh?

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with getting satisfaction as a reader even if it is a self insert or what not. The most important thing is the reader has to realize the difference between that and reality. Only when they don't is there a problem.

All things in moderation.

With time, as one reads their standards will go up as even if you eat ice cream 5 times a day, it'll get repetitive and you will seek something different or something more. You are simply at a stage where you got tired of brain dead self inserts and that is fine. Read what you enjoy, you only live 9 times.

That said, I suggest the first change you make to your life is getting a cat, and worshiping them as your master
 

Bloodysin28

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
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I had an idle talk with someone today. As a first class closeted introverted misanthropist, I don't talk to others much. So the talk went something like this:
"So, wanna talk about anything?"
"What exactly?"
"Do you watch TV shows, for example?"
"I don't"
"Read books?"
"Yeah. But they aren't worth talking about. They are the literary equivalent of TV shows"
"What? What kinds of books are those?"
"Well... low level stuff"
"Like, textbooks?"
"No, more like junkfood"
Which was around where the conversation ended, plus minus margin of error.
When I came home, I remembered it, and decided that maybe reading more of these kinds of books - or, rather, consuming this kind of monotonous homogenous mass of content in text form, is not a good idea, and, maybe, it'd do me good to cut down on that and visit the church more instead (or something).
Well, I've never been that good at drastic changes to life - which is why I am here, writing this forum thread instead of taking a long walk in the nearby park.
Anyway, what makes the books I read "junkfood"? Because these kinds of books coddle me (replace "me" and "I" in this line with "you" and see if it still makes sense)
Books should hurt you. They shouldn't make you feel comfortable.
A novel where most my ideals are affirmed and where the author bends over backwards to make sure that the characters get rewarded for living according to them make me feel comfortable. But like a bag of cheetos, you don't notice when it is gone and it lacks substance.
A novel that brutally beats me down and critisises the logical flaws in my ideals of how things should be are not comfortable to read but they are like a steak - you have to work your teeth on it and will get more nutrition from eating it than from doing a whole bag of cheetos.
So I guess I will try going for novels that will make me want to not read them. Who knows, maybe I will dislike the process enough to not want to read novels again, huh?
I kind of understand the feeling after watcing cyberpunk edgerunners,as well as real life.Which is why i hate utopian settings and like dystopias, one is a literal impossible fantasy and the other is inevitable dark gritty reality though absolutely fuck nihilist angst.
 

Daitengu

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Mar 11, 2019
Messages
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Eh, just stop reading pop fiction then. Then again, rare is the story where the hero dies. And they're usually dark all the way through. That's got it's own cliches. Lovecraft was a ramble, and Poe was pretty annoying to read.

There's always nonfiction. I liked reading about space and geology when I was younger.

I've even read stuff like 'The Art of War', Buddhist scripture, the testaments, and various historic philosophies.
 
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judojimmy

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I think you are being too dramatic about it. If you want to be entertained read entertaining stories. If you want betterment read something else. The only thing lost by reading entertaining stories is the opportunity to do something else and it isn't like most of us were or are going to save the world anyway, so maybe chill with the angst just a tad. Honestly that angst is probably worse for you than any pop culture story you are reading.
 

CupcakeNinja

Pervert Supreme
Joined
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Messages
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I had an idle talk with someone today. As a first class closeted introverted misanthropist, I don't talk to others much. So the talk went something like this:
"So, wanna talk about anything?"
"What exactly?"
"Do you watch TV shows, for example?"
"I don't"
"Read books?"
"Yeah. But they aren't worth talking about. They are the literary equivalent of TV shows"
"What? What kinds of books are those?"
"Well... low level stuff"
"Like, textbooks?"
"No, more like junkfood"
Which was around where the conversation ended, plus minus margin of error.
When I came home, I remembered it, and decided that maybe reading more of these kinds of books - or, rather, consuming this kind of monotonous homogenous mass of content in text form, is not a good idea, and, maybe, it'd do me good to cut down on that and visit the church more instead (or something).
Well, I've never been that good at drastic changes to life - which is why I am here, writing this forum thread instead of taking a long walk in the nearby park.
Anyway, what makes the books I read "junkfood"? Because these kinds of books coddle me (replace "me" and "I" in this line with "you" and see if it still makes sense)
Books should hurt you. They shouldn't make you feel comfortable.
A novel where most my ideals are affirmed and where the author bends over backwards to make sure that the characters get rewarded for living according to them make me feel comfortable. But like a bag of cheetos, you don't notice when it is gone and it lacks substance.
A novel that brutally beats me down and critisises the logical flaws in my ideals of how things should be are not comfortable to read but they are like a steak - you have to work your teeth on it and will get more nutrition from eating it than from doing a whole bag of cheetos.
So I guess I will try going for novels that will make me want to not read them. Who knows, maybe I will dislike the process enough to not want to read novels again, huh?
just stop reading trash. Your wish fulfillment harem stories are whats rotting your brain.

Pick up a darker story once in a while. The Broken Empire and the Black Prism are pretty good
 

apexaltra

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Sorry but something about "Books should hurt you" is funny. Shame on everyone who reads for fun. I know you're trying to sound smart, but you come off as pretentious.

I can read books with dense prose and symbolism, and then I can go read mass-market sci-fi and romance, and I can enjoy both. Shit, both of them help me write better too.
 

CupcakeNinja

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mass-market sci-fi and romance, and I can enjoy both. Shit, both of them help me write better too.
pfft, i think the same way about all these traumatized MC stories. I enjoy a good heart ache, but they're just so lazily done and then the inner monologue just sounds so cringe. I don't get any ideas from them, i just think, "tsk, i could write this better."

Zetro translations in particular is full of novels with premises that fit my tastes well. But the content within the novels themselves is just disappointing. The bones are there, but they could use some meat
 

TheEldritchGod

A Cloud Of Pure Spite And Eyes
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You're wrong.

Look. I get it. What you are experiencing is the realization that 'What I am doing is a waste of time'. You are taking the time to evaluate what you are doing and, in effect, considering it's value. Everything has a value. Everything costs something and everything returns something.

I used to be a bit of a hoarder. I disliked throwing out anything that was useful. I had a basement full of more Apple SE-30s then you could shake a stick at. I had an Fx. I had old computers with processing speed in the 30's.

No. Not 30 MHz. 30 Hz.
Your computer is in the GHz, most likely.

And one day, someone told me, "Empty Shelf Space is worth something. The Space that junk is taking up. Is worth more then the empty space it is occupying?"

And that was the day I emptied out most of my basement.

My point is, you are telling me, "I don't watch TV." but that other person wanted to talk to you about TV. By not watching TV, you lost the opportunity to talk to that other person. You could have built a friendship. You could have made something from the knowledge of the TV show.

Play Has Value.

Having fun, has value. Doing Nothing, has value. Being non-productive, has value.
Never throwing anything away because it MIGHT be of use, eats up the room in your basement to store something in an emergency.
Reading a silly book that makes you smile makes you happy. People like happy people. People hang around happy people. People make friends with happy people.

I had the shit beat out of me for a decade. I was a social outcast. The few times people tried to become my friend, it didn't work, because I hated everyone. I went on become very successful in banking and enjoyed destroying people's lives. I regret it. I wish I had tried to get over my rage sooner. I focused everything on VALUE. I saw no value in silly stories. I saw no value in TV. I saw no value in Joy.

What utter pretentious nonsense.

How about you focus on something else? How about you focus on making the world a better place than you found it? You can improve yourself with challenging books. You can improve yourself by watching TV so you can talk with your friends about it. You can just read a silly book to cheer yourself up to be happy so when the world is terrible you have some sort of mental fortitude to withstand the horror. You can tell someone who is having a shitty life a happy, silly, pointless story to help them make it though the next hour.

I think the problem is, you want to do something you can be proud of. Do you have any pride in yourself? Do you do anything that you take pride in? Any successes that you have achieved that you can say, 'I did that'? It doesn't have to be earth shattering. But when was the last time you went beyond your limits?

Look. I'm going to give you the same advice I give most of the people who I councle.

Go for a run.

What I mean is, leave your home, at least once a week, and go for a run. Or if you have a bike, use that. Now go farther then you have ever gone before. Try biking 20 miles. Bike until you puke. Push yourself to the limit. Spend the entire day killing yourself.

Then, rest up and do it next week.

Keep doing it, every week, until you develop that ability to walk forever, or bike forever. The reason being, in just a few months, you will improve to the point where you will be able to do it, without doubting yourself. You will know, I couldn't bike 20 miles, now I can. Once you have that ability to bash your head against a wall until the wall collapses, you will know that there isn't anything you cannot do, if you are just given enough time.

You'll be healthier for it, but you will also gain confidence in yourself. If I can bike twenty miles, I'm sure I can X.

Whatever X is that you know you should do.

A book that challenges? Bah. Whatever. You don't even know what you are trying to achieve. Have you planned out your life? No? Don't worry about wasting time on silly things. Mentally recharging yourself is just as important as learning more or self-improvement.

Or if running is impractical, become an expert at something.

Or write a book, no matter how bad it is, write it. You need help, let me know. Not a short book, but something long. Like, Infinite Jest level.

I wrote an encyclopedia about D&D d20 3.0/3.5. took 4 years. It was 112 books, and it was finished AFTER 3rd edition had been discontinued and they had started pushing 4th. I did it, because I wanted to know if I could. I did it to prove I could.

I can bike 50+ miles. I can write an encyclopedia. I can work for 54 hours straight without sleep. When I put my mind to something, it gets done, sooner or later. I have pride in that. I am a miracle worker. I have been in impossible situations and I have saved the day. I have an amazing amount of self-confidence, but only because I have PROVED to myself and others that when the chips are down, the world is coming to an end, and all hope is lost, that I can and will save the day.

Because I have.

And it all started with getting on my bike and pushing petals until I got to the next town over 14 miles away, and then biking back. And I did that, over and over until it was nothing.

I just wish I spent more effort into being happy, and less effort into revenge.
Now THAT was a waste of my time.
 

K5Rakitan

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It depends on what else you do with your time. If you are challenged in other ways through your work or if you are consuming a bunch of nonfiction media, it's fine to relax with a novel. If you are neurodivergent and day-to-day life challenges you more than the average person, it's fine to relax with a novel. If you are reading thirty picture books a day to your toddler, then you don't even get time to read a novel.
 

Gryphon

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I can at least garantee you one thing about my story. No one gets a happy ending cause happy endings are for babies. But, no, seriously I've had that same problem too, especially within the harem genre of anime and manga. And thats one of the main reasons I wrote "My Succubus Roommate" to write a harem story that just doesn't end happily. Although by this point there's like nothing to do about a harem and more stuff to do about uncomfortable life topics.
 

aattss

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I regularly look for stories by searching by tags like "overpowered protagonist" and "harem". And you can't stop me.

Funny thing is, I've experienced a lot of great stories about pain and suffering, but then again I'm not exactly expecting a lot of the stories here to be great.
 

WinterTimeCrime

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Exactly why I stopped reading web novels and am only interested in established writers and overseas novelists. Most of the writers on these platforms write the same way because they read the same shit daily. No one wants to take risks with their writing because they don't want to off-put readers and/or avoid criticism.

For example, what comes to mind is most isekai tropes are the same or follow the exact path. Death > Find yourself in a new world > Become an overpowered protagonist > Meet big-breasted fanservice women > Bit of character development through hardship or loss, but mediocre at best > Profit. > New season, but the formula seems to work, so let's do it all over again.

That's why I enjoyed the Saga of Tanya the Evil so much. Sure, it followed the reincarnation path, but she got her powers and was put into specific situations because of two forces - Being X and her making her own decisions. Proactivity was enforced, but there was a general reason why she became powerful in the first place and why things are happening around her (and it's later shown she's not even the most proficient mage). Not only that, but it has an unforgiving world; Yes, we know that plague and famine exist - But sickness and poverty live in virtually every country; it's nothing new. I want to know about the sick fucks in your series because that's what makes a real-world unforgiving, knowing that there's someone who has a twisted mindset lingering around in the shadows. e.g. There's a pedophilic general in Saga of Tanya who wants to make the MC his wife and do... Other things to the young girl...

Anyways, I agree. If all you read are web novels, you're definitely getting coddled. Expand your horizons, and learn about different writing styles and authors' perceptions of worlds because a lot of web novelists are quite linear in their thinking due to pop culture being embedded into their brains, especially when they're first starting out.
 
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