NTR Debate Over, Sailus wins.

Anon2024

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It's important to keep in mind that the three types of NTR is sexual by nature. There are two things that NTR is predicated on:
1. One or two characters are in a relationship and/or have feelings for each other.
2. One of the characters has sexual relations with a third party.
After all, if neither characters were interested in each other, then the third party isn't exactly 'stealing' anyone. Additionally, if they are in a relationship, and one character has feelings for the other, but the other doesn't, then it's just plain cheating.

Netorase satisfies the two conditions above that makes it NTR. In netorase, the one who agrees to let the other sleep around tends to want it to happen, and they take consenting actions to make it happen with full knowledge from all participating parties.

TL;DR, I classify netorase as NTR.
You da real PHD
 

Aaqil

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*pat pat*, :blob_cookie:
 

Anon2024

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So, the question was clearly answered on the first reply. After some discussion, a clear explanation was given and accepted on the first page -- which is rare enough, I suspect. But somehow we are on the third page of argument? I so love the internet. 😛
Discussion, not argument. Got even more clearer definition from people more well versed in NTR. I'm pretty new to NTR.
I just want to know if I need to add an NTR tag to my story.
According to what has been made clear, NTR =\= poly.

NTR is based on sex (whether consensual or nonconsensual). Without sex, it wouldn't be NTR.

Poly is where it's a 'relationship' between multiple people.
NTR is where there is only two people in a committed relationship before a third party takes only one of them to have sex with.
NTR also requires focus on...

Look... Harems have female NTR in that, but since most of the people reading Harems are men, they don't care what the female feels so to them it's not NTR and as such won't be defined as such. The end. Done.
 

Paul_Tromba

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Discussion, not argument. Got even more clearer definition from people more well versed in NTR. I'm pretty new to NTR.

According to what has been made clear, NTR =\= poly.

NTR is based on sex (whether consensual or nonconsensual). Without sex, it wouldn't be NTR.

Poly is where it's a 'relationship' between multiple people.
NTR is where there is only two people in a committed relationship before a third party takes only one of them to have sex with.
NTR also requires focus on...

Look... Harems have female NTR in that, but since most of the people reading Harems are men, they don't care what the female feels so to them it's not NTR and as such won't be defined as such. The end. Done.
So... in other words, NTR does in fact = NTR
 

Anon2024

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So... in other words, NTR does in fact = NTR
The best way I can make sense of it is that the genre tends to give women a lot of sex partners while the man has only that woman. That's what almost every NTR centers around.

Man is monogamous.
Woman is poly.
 

Paul_Tromba

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The best way I can make sense of it is that the genre tends to give women a lot of sex partners while the man has only that woman. That's what almost every NTR centers around.

Man is monogamous.
Woman is poly.
so...

Women sleep around and the guy justs wants to be happy?
 

Anon2024

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so...

Women sleep around and the guy justs wants to be happy?
I guess.
Harem is man sleeps around and woman is monogamous.

It sounds like the opposite, but only from the straight male perspective I guess.

It's funny because when I read harems I feel bad for the girls having to share one person, then when I read NTR I feel bad for the guy sharing his girl either willing or unwilling.

Neither genre really suits me, but NTR is more interesting because it's so hated.
NTR seems to be a hot topic all of a sudden.

Y'all wild.
No, it's just me creating the topics of discussion.
 

LostLibrarian

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In the end, the genre "NTR" isn't based on "what men or what women does" but "what the Protagonist does and what happens to him". The main protagonist of your story - for most webnovels often the self-insert character - is the focus point for your genre tags. Whether a different view point or argument can be made for harem-situations or other stuff doesn't really matter in this case. It's a simple question of what happens to the MC.

That's the reason why a harem - even if netori happens - isn't marked as NTR. Because the genre tag NTR is based around the fact that "the protagonist loses his girl". It's a warning to readers who want to self-insert into the characters: "Your heart will be hurt."
That's it.

NTR as genre marks a loss the viewpoint-character has to bear with. Whether that is through passive actions, active actions, threats, etc doesn't really matter for the genre tag. It's about whether the story "is a happy one" for the MC. In fact, there are multiple harems where the MC will steal women from other men. But those aren't NTR under the tags because that's "a good thing happening to the MC".

It's the same way you won't put "overpowered MC" as your genre/tag when it's a side-character that is powerful...


Look... Harems have female NTR in that, but since most of the people reading Harems are men, they don't care what the female feels so to them it's not NTR and as such won't be defined as such. The end. Done.
The overwhelming majority of harem don't have "female NTR" in there. Because usually the MC picks up virgins who fall in love with him left and right. It gets a bit muddy with smut-harems where the tropes/themes change up a bit and characters also switch, but harem aren't really NTR. Especially as the overwhelming majority won't even have sexual relationships before the harem is established.

It would be some kind of cheating/NTR if the MC gets together with the first girl and afterwards adds more girls. But harem MCs are usually either rather open about their desires ("I won't be only yours") or you have multiple girls near the MC before they take the next step (and then there might be more people added afterwards)...
 

Saine

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It's funny because when I read harems I feel bad for the girls having to share one person, then when I read NTR I feel bad for the guy sharing his girl either willing or unwilling.

I think one aspect you're missing here is that for it to be NTR the lover has to be permanently stolen, as in taken away from the aggrieved party. Even if the harem members are upset about the main character sleeping with someone else, it's not NTR unless it ruins the relationship. Cheating and cuckolding aren't NTR automatically, it's only NTR if people break up.

The reason why harems aren't looked at the same, is that even if not all of the characters are happy about the situation, harems must be consensual. It's not a harem if the characters aren't aware and at least mostly okay with the situation. A lot of times harems are not only normal but expected in that fiction and thus aren't looked at negatively at all.

So it's not surprising at all that a genre that's predicated on ruining a relationship is looked at negatively vs a genre that's based on consent, even if it's mostly just a sexual fantasy thing.
 

Anon2024

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I think one aspect you're missing here is that for it to be NTR the lover has to be permanently stolen, as in taken away from the aggrieved party. Even if the harem members are upset about the main character sleeping with someone else, it's not NTR unless it ruins the relationship. Cheating and cuckolding aren't NTR automatically, it's only NTR if people break up.
Netorase as far as Genre goes is considered NTR.
Look back on the other posts on this thread to see what JamminRabbit wrote about it.
 

TheEldritchGod

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it cant be stolen if its allowed to be taken.
I agree. For example, at any time Christopher Walken might show up and rape you. There is nothing anyone could do about it. How could you stop him? When the heat death of the universe arrives and the last living thing in the cosmos finally dies, Christopher Walken will be there to shed a single tear, not because it died, but because there will be nothing left to suffer.

How do you deal with that? Simple. Just accept that Christopher Walken can have sex with you at any time. It isn't rape if you give him permission. Paradoxically, once you give him carte blanch to fuck you, he is no longer interested. It's only fun for him if you struggle.

Same thing for NTR.
 
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