NTR'ing the Readers

[Zinless]

Sounds like a theocracy world.

It is lol

 

[SomethingStuffHappend]

The Aristocrats is a classic joke that has existed for decades. It is one of those jokes that is a litmus test. If you cannot tell this joke, which is one of the most well-known disgusting jokes ever, and make people laugh, then you do not have the skill and ability to do "evil" humor.

There is a fine line between telling a joke that is funny, that just happens to also be 100% insanely WRONG, and telling a joke that is just being cruel. The phrase is, "Crossing the line twice." You tell a joke that crosses the line from funny into horrifying, but you keep it up and you go all around the world until you come back around to where you started and cross the line a second time.

This sort of story, from what I read, is an attempt to cross the line twice. Which is fine, but do you have the talent to pull it off? Can you ACTUALLY do something that over the top and make it funny? Well...

Can you tell the Aristocrats Joke? No?
Then don't bother trying to write the story.

I get what you mean but there was no damn punch line. It ended with they all bowed the show was over. The joke sucked it’s over convoluted. Doing ridiculous bad disgusting acts was the joke? It’s sucks as a joke

 

[Zinless]

I get what you mean but there was no damn punch line. It ended with they all bowed the show was over. The joke sucked it’s over convoluted. Doing ridiculous bad disgusting acts was the joke? It’s sucks as a joke

I believe it's not the joke that matters, but the delivery. The contents of the joke's not that important, it's just a test to see if you can pull off dark jokes or not. As EldritchGod said:

If you cannot tell this joke, which is one of the most well-known disgusting jokes ever, and make people laugh, then you do not have the skill and ability to do "evil" humor.

 

[Stray_Moon]

I look forward to it as an NTR lover

Okay, so i've recently got into writing again after a couple failed fantasy novels (i still havent given up on them, i just need to fix them), and I created the plot outline for a new novel. In some ways, its less ambitious than my previous novel attempts - in some ways, its more ambitious. Its not a huge fantasy epic like I was first trying to write. I was trying to write a huge fantasy epic like 'Game of Thrones' or Robert Jordan's 'Wheel of Time saga'. But that's a lot for a new author to take on... Plus, I kept wanting to turn my fantasy novels into smut/erotica. Rather than awesome action stories, I found that i'm better at writing drama instead.

So, I decided to try my hand at a different genre...

N.T.R. (If you are new to japanese/degenerate culture and dont know what NTR is, then I salute you)

I want to write a NTR story so brutal that readers will shut their phones off in disgust after leaving walls of text in the comments about how stupid I am and how bad my story is. I want more 1 star ratings than K5Rakitan. I want them to rage into their keyboards and send death threats at me - but I want to keep them coming back to read despite their self-disgust. Like watching a train-wreck, a well written NTR keeps people reading until the end, because they want to see just how badly things turn out.

So my plan is to have two main characters - The first character is the 'cuck' who will follow the classic 'Hero's Journey' plotline, except I will subvert it by having him lose to the antagonist at almost every turn (but win just enough to give the readers hope).
The second protagonist is the 'bull', who will act as the antagonist in the hero's plotline, but his own plotline will be an anti-hero revenge plotline.

The idea is to have the NTR aspect of the story almost completely hidden from the readers, until about a quarter of the way through the novel - BAM! Surprise NTR! I wont tag it with any cheating/NTR tag so the readers will have no clue except for the story breadcrumbs I plan to leave... They should think its just another typical harem fantasy with a beta-male lead (there are literally a million of those kinds of stories - the loser getting the girls and defeating the enemies despite never earning them).

The most difficult part seems like it would be the balancing act between making the readers feel sympathy for the cuck, and humanizing the bull enough that readers want to care enough about why he does these terrible things to the 'mc'.

And as for why I'm writing this vile trash... Its hilarious, I like to mess with people. (and i'm a degenerate) Honestly, Ive never had so much fun making a concept for a novel before. I'm having trouble coming up with a name though... I'm currently thinking "Invidia's Fall" or something similar. (Invidia is latin for envy)

 

[SomethingStuffHappend]

I believe it's not the joke that matters, but the delivery. The contents of the joke doesn't matter, it's just a test to see if you can pull off dark jokes or not. As EldritchGod said:

I’m saying the joke sucks I’m ok with dark humor I even enjoy it sometimes(to each there own) but that one sucked imo

 

[Zinless]

I’m saying the joke sucks I’m ok with dark humor I even enjoy it sometimes(to each there own) but that one sucked imo

I'm not a big fan of dark humor, so I can't really rate the Aristocrat joke myself. I just categorize it as "A dirty joke".

As you said, to each their own.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

I’m saying the joke sucks I’m ok with dark humor I even enjoy it sometimes(to each there own) but that one sucked imo

Zinless once again proves it's the delivery that matters. It's not a test for dark humor, it's a test for passing absolute filth off as something people could find entertaining. If you (referring to OP) can't get a single person to laugh about that then you shouldn't intentionally try to show the audience filth like sudden ntr because your execution likely sucks.

 

[Deleted member 68927]

I did it and the RR crowd hated on me so much, that I deleted my account there. Trust me, you don't really want this.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

I did it and the RR crowd hated on me so much, that I deleted my account there. Trust me, you don't really want this.

Yo OP! I'm stealing your idea to piss off RR!

 

[Hydro]

This piques my curiosity and interest but that concerns me....

 

[StrongArm]

A full-on jerk getting the girl would be more grating to the readers I believe.

But, humanizing them could also work. There are many, I do mean many, readers who self insert themselves into the first average looking, perhaps a bit of a loser looking, boy they could find. For example, the boy from "The Executioner and Her Way of Life", his name is Mitsuki I believe.

Nice, that sounds like my kinda novel. Ill check it out, thanks!

 

[Zinless]

Nice, that sounds like my kinda novel. Ill check it out, thanks!

The novel doesn't focus on the execution parts btw, just so you know. But the worldbuilding and story is pretty good.

 

[HelloHound]

Honestly, it's not too hard to make your readers rage these days. Anything bad happening to the MC is usually enough.

I Dunno, as I've thrown my 5 year old old main character down a river for the second time and I haven't heard a peep of defense for her

 

[StrongArm]

Zinless once again proves it's the delivery that matters. It's not a test for dark humor, it's a test for passing absolute filth off as something people could find entertaining. If you (referring to OP) can't get a single person to laugh about that then you shouldn't intentionally try to show the audience filth like sudden ntr because your execution likely sucks.

So, part of the reason why I'm doing this, is because in my previous two novels, I cared way too much what the readers thought. This relatively short, (about 400 page) ntr novel is practice for writing better, and practice for not giving a fuck about readers. Basically, I dont mind as much if I fail and make something trashy.

Also, I believe in myself - I wanna be the very best troll author I can be! I think with dedication & wit, I can pull it off.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Now that sounds like an interesting premise. Doesn't even need to be NTR to piss the readers off and """""NTR""""" them, really.

Just start with your bait-and-switch MC, let him do some MC-ish stuff, then you switch to the jerk NTRee, let him do something that actively goes against whatever "MC" tries to do, and switch back to the "MC" that has to deal with the consequences of it. You have now established "MC" as the protagonist of your story and your real MC as a "villain". At least in the minds of the readers. You are now free to slowly switch positions in the exposition. Turn "MC" into an irredeemable villain, and turn the established "villain" into a redeemed character. Works even better if the narration is unreliable or first person in both cases.
Even more bonus points for not showing other characters actively doubt the MC but the pieces clicking together and making sense when you re-read it.

There is no greater betrayal to the readers than their perceived protagonist suddenly betraying the story (and no mind control, evil twin, or corruption power BS is involved).

For the reveal you want this great moment where you hype your reader for some grand confrontation only to show them the bird and tell them they totally bet on the wrong horse the whole time.

 

[StrongArm]

Now that sounds like an interesting premise. Doesn't even need to be NTR to piss the readers off and """""NTR""""" them, really.

Just start with your bait-and-switch MC, let him do some MC-ish stuff, then you switch to the jerk NTRee, let him do something that actively goes against whatever "MC" tries to do, and switch back to the "MC" that has to deal with the consequences of it. You have now established "MC" as the protagonist of your story and your real MC as a "villain". At least in the minds of the readers. You are now free to slowly switch positions in the exposition. Turn "MC" into an irredeemable villain, and turn the established "villain" into a redeemed character. Works even better if the narration is unreliable or first person in both cases.
Even more bonus points for not showing other characters actively doubt the MC but the pieces clicking together and making sense when you re-read it.

There is no greater betrayal to the readers than their perceived protagonist suddenly betraying the story (and no mind control, evil twin, or corruption power BS is involved).

For the reveal you want this great moment where you hype your reader for some grand confrontation only to show them the bird and tell them they totally bet on the wrong horse the whole time.

Those are really great points. I might even screenshot this post and some others for tips.

So the way I have the plotline set up is that the bull (antagonist), has a very strong revenge motive against the 'cuck MC's family. The cuck is actually a mostly innocent bystander, he just happened to be in the antagonists way.

The cuck will have a basic 'chosen one' plotline, the classic hero's journey. It'll go like this:

1. Showing the ordinary life of the cuck.
2. The cucks call to adventure
3. the cucks refusal of the call
4 the cuck gathers allies to go on his adventure (this is where i will place my antagonist who will have infiltrated the group)
- this is where I start to subvert the hero's journey.-
5. as the cuck prepares to use his special magic to fulfill his destiny, something 'mysteriously' happens that causes the cucks extra special magic to be taken by the antagonist.
6. the cuck has to deal with his loss of 'specialness' (this is where i will have his first NTR as well)
7. the cuck goes on a mission to train and gain power. he meets a female mentor who can train him in awesome magic.
8. He prepares for a confrontation with the antagonist.
9. He loses because the antagonist is a warrior, while the cuck is not. (his mentor is then NTR'd)
-then its pretty much downhill from here for the cuck, it will switch to the antagonists perspective more now - (this is where i will reveal the antagonists motive for revenge)
10??? after suffering unimaginable horrors, I may have the cuck basically destroy the world after his mind is shattered - an ultimate fall to darkness for a hero. I am not firm on this ending.

 

[BearlyAlive]

The cuck will have a basic 'chosen one' plotline, the classic hero's journey. It'll go like this:
1. Showing the ordinary life of the cuck.
2. The cucks call to adventure
3. the cucks refusal of the call
4 the cuck gathers allies to go on his adventure (this is where i will place my antagonist who will have infiltrated the group)
- this is where I start to subvert the hero's journey.-
5. as the cuck prepares to use his special magic to fulfill his destiny, something 'mysteriously' happens that causes the cucks extra special magic to be taken by the antagonist.
6. the cuck has to deal with his loss of 'specialness' (this is where i will have his first NTR as well)
7. the cuck goes on a mission to train and gain power. he meets a female mentor who can train him in awesome magic.
8. He prepares for a confrontation with the antagonist.
9. He loses because the antagonist is a warrior, while the cuck is not. (his mentor is then NTR'd)
-then its pretty much downhill from here for the cuck, it will switch to the antagonists perspective more now - (this is where i will reveal the antagonists motive for revenge)
10??? after suffering unimaginable horrors, I may have the cuck basically destroy the world after his mind is shattered - an ultimate fall to darkness for a hero. I am not firm on this ending.

The revenge motif is pretty generic and perfect for a perceived villain, but you might want to make it more morally gray, so it isn't boring later on. Make his revenge justified.
Maybe Cucky's family is secretly some kind of evil cult, or his super special super magic is actually some kind of forbidden, unnatural or evil magic or something.

You could also set up 5. in a way so that the super special super power actively not choses Cucky for whatever reasons the reader don't know (yet). Maybe even give him a plausible fake reason that both him and the readers could believe

For 9. I'd go with some serious gut punches like his mentor willingly agreeing with the antagonist and showing first signs of Cucky's impending insanity disguised as signs of despair.

Helping others live out their sadistic ambitions is always fun...

 

[StrongArm]

The revenge motif is pretty generic and perfect for a perceived villain, but you might want to make it more morally gray, so it isn't boring later on. Make his revenge justified.
Maybe Cucky's family is secretly some kind of evil cult, or his super special super magic is actually some kind of forbidden, unnatural or evil magic or something.

You could also set up 5. in a way so that the super special super power actively not choses Cucky for whatever reasons the reader don't know (yet). Maybe even give him a plausible fake reason that both him and the readers could believe

For 9. I'd go with some serious gut punches like his mentor willingly agreeing with the antagonist and showing first signs of Cucky's impending insanity disguised as signs of despair.

Helping others live out their sadistic ambitions is always fun...

So, the backstory is that The Cucks family is in charge of a magical seal that separates the material world from the spirit world, if the seal is undone then countless hungry chaotic spirits will wreak havoc in the world - effectively killing large amounts of the population and destroying civilization. The cucks family has a special magic that keeps the seal going. It is passed down from father to son. This special magic basically has allowed the cucks family to rule their small area like kings. Each person with the special magic has to marry the priestess of the temple (a perfect target for NTR - someone who cant choose their own romantic partner and is devout, dutiful and chaste).

I wanted to have the antagonists whole family murdered by the cuck hero's father for being spirit cultists - people who believe that the seals should be removed in order to live in harmony with the spirits, like the ancients supposedly did.

like you said, I want both groups, the antagonists and the protagonists to be more morally grey.

As for a reason why the antagonist might hate the cuck mc a little, and not just his father - I was thinking that they knew each other when they were children and the cuck hero was a little bit of a spoiled rich kid bully towards our antagonist. I might not actually go that route and instead just have the antagonist be extremely jealous of the cuck hero for growing up with everything the antagonist never had.

 

[melchi]

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