Porn or Plot with porn? Where do you draw the line?

Cauldrons

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
59
Points
58
This question was inspired by a recent argument I was having with an author that basically devolved into me saying why does criticism matter to you you're making a porn novel. (It wasn't that eloquently but I digress.) The author defended themselves saying it was a romance story with porn in it and not just porn. I fundamentally disagree with their statement for multiple reasons. 1.) I think after a certain threshold no matter how good the plot is it would still be considered porn, and 2.) I personally don't think the author developed the story well enough to justify saying it was a romance story first and foremost. My question for everyone is where you draw the line between something being just porn and a story with pornographic content?
 

Cipiteca396

🌺🌑🐉🪶 Anxiety Overdrive
Joined
Jun 6, 2021
Messages
2,143
Points
153
According to google, pron is intended to sexually arouse the reader (or the author, I'd add). So if there's a purpose to it other than that, it's not pron.

If the plot is just an excuse to have rampant sex and nudity, it's pron. If sex and eroticism happens as a natural result of people doing things that real people do, it's just a part of the story.

The line is not clear, though. It's entirely a subjective thing.
 

SakeVision

Sama/kisama
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
1,013
Points
128
I am now drafting a novel where there is sex almost every chapter, but it also has a plot. I don't know which author you're talking about, but it's totally possible to have both.
In the end, looks at it like that. If a story has a lot of fight scenes, does it make it a martial arts manual? If a story takes place during the modern-day war, does it make it a war documentary? And if a story features a lot of internal monologues, does it make it a thought journal?

Or like that. Take your favorite novel. And insert sex scene in every chapter. Would it make the plot nonexistent?

I dunno what books you've read. But let's consider a classic that should be familiar to most people. "And then there were none" by Agatha Christie, also known by other names that I will not mention.
If the book started with an orgy, then the culprit killed everyone one by one by graphically described ero guro method, would it make it any less of a mystery?
 

K5Rakitan

Level 34 👪 💍 Pronouns: she/whore ♀
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
8,168
Points
233
If there is porn in EVERY chapter, it's porn with a plot. You can find such stories on Literotica, among other places. I love reading that shit when I want to quickly get in the mood to masturbate.

My story is a plot with porn. They don't fuck until Chapter 6, and I drop the curtain before the actual copulation happens. I get more graphic in other chapters, though. I would not look for a story like mine if I was horny and wanted to charge my horny meter faster. I would read a story like mine if I wanted something to savor before bed to give me pleasant dreams. However, one of my boyfriends complained that he couldn't read it at work because it got him horny too quickly, so different people have different tolerance levels for this kind of literature.

Generally, it's not a good idea to argue with an author about how they define their own creation.
 

BenJepheneT

Light Up Gold - Parquet Courts
Joined
Jul 14, 2019
Messages
5,344
Points
233
i consider the two in a stasis where they're simultaneously mutually exclusive and the same for convenience's sake. if the porn makes the story better and vice versa, then that's good. if one can do without another, i can simply judge them separately and go about my day.

i won't get tilted by the classifications. as long as my and my fun stick get entertained, I'm good.
 

owotrucked

Isekai express delivery
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
1,082
Points
153
Are you really arguing with an author about what they should care about or not? Really?

Our opinion on the work is irrelevant. Only the author's intent and ability to manifest it into reality matters. If the author feels unable to fully express their goal, then criticism is useful to them.

Even if it was a porn story, execution could be improved and criticism would be useful.

As a writer in general, of course, anyone would want criticism to improve. It's short sighted to only look at the current work and put it in a box without thinking of futur writings.

Putting an external label on something, arbitrarily set by random opinions that havent even access to it, and imposing a limited range of freedom on it based on those disconnected opinions sound very useless.

It isn't surprising in the slightest that you'd devolve into arguments with people lmao

---

For the classification for reader's interest. If I wanted to read porn, I'd go for a story with the maximum frequency of sex scene possible.

If sex is a mean to an end rather than set as a payoff at the end of ordeals, it's useful for reader to consider it as porn rather than plot with porn when recommending it to other readers. Because the porn itself becomes plot device.
 
Last edited:

Mysticant

Resident Ant
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
274
Points
58
Does it matter? As long as it does not affect your fapping experience, porn will always be porn even with plot or not. I mean it really depends whether you want to feel horny or you want to feel wholesome. I won't say happy since some people derive their joys off porn.
 

Cauldrons

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
59
Points
58
Are you really arguing with an author about what they should care about or not? Really?

Our opinion on the work is irrelevant. Only the author's intent and ability to manifest it into reality matters. If the author feels unable to fully express their goal, then criticism is useful to them.

Even if it was a porn story, execution could be improved and criticism would be useful.

As a writer in general, of course, anyone would want criticism to improve. It's short sighted to only look at the current work and put it in a box without thinking of futur writings.

Putting an external label on something, arbitrarily set by random opinions that havent even access to it, and imposing a limited range of freedom on it based on those disconnected opinions sound very useless.

It isn't surprising in the slightest that you'd devolve into arguments with people lmao

---

For the classification for reader's interest. If I wanted to read porn, I'd go for a story with the maximum frequency of sex scene possible.

If sex is a mean to an end rather than set as a payoff at the end of ordeals, it's useful for reader to consider it as porn rather than plot with porn when recommending it to other readers. Because the porn itself becomes plot device.
Wow, you didn't understand anything did you? I summarized our argument a lot but let me make one thing clear the author was the one getting mad people wouldn't give what he viewed as 'proper' criticism not the other way around so get rid of that attitude. Stop with petty insults that have nothing to do with the question if you don't know what happened.
 

owotrucked

Isekai express delivery
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
1,082
Points
153
Wow, you didn't understand anything did you? I summarized our argument a lot but let me make one thing clear the author was the one getting mad people wouldn't give what he viewed as 'proper' criticism not the other way around so get rid of that attitude. Stop with petty insults that have nothing to do with the question if you don't know what happened.
You're talking about the argument in this chapter?

Feedbacks and opinions are only useful to authors if they judge that using them will pull the story closer to their vision. They're only a mirror to check if the effects of their writings match its design.

Your vision of what desirable is his story doesn't match what the author's choices => the feedback is irrelevant.

You understand author's choices, and find methods to enhance the impacts it has on the readers => the feedback is relevant

If you tell an impressionist painter that his brushwork sucks and he needs to refine them, they'll dismiss you like dirt. If you tell them that sharpening this part, and fading the other one to create a contrast that harmoniously guide the viewer's eyes towards the intended feeling, they'll treat you like a treasure.

Irrelevant feedbacks are like asking a guitarist to play wonderwall while he's jamming on his improv.

I've already answered the question, but does the categorization of porn and story with porn really even matters outside of your argument with that author?
 

Cauldrons

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
59
Points
58
You're talking about the argument in this chapter?

Feedbacks and opinions are only useful to authors if they judge that using them will pull the story closer to their vision. They're only a mirror to check if the effects of their writings match its design.

Your vision of what desirable is his story doesn't match what the author's choices => the feedback is irrelevant.

You understand author's choices, and find methods to enhance the impacts it has on the readers => the feedback is relevant

If you tell an impressionist painter that his brushwork sucks and he needs to refine them, they'll dismiss you like dirt. If you tell them that sharpening this part, and fading the other one to create a contrast that harmoniously guide the viewer's eyes towards the intended feeling, they'll treat you like a treasure.

Irrelevant feedbacks are like asking a guitarist to play wonderwall while he's jamming on his improv.

I've already answered the question, but does the categorization of porn and story with porn really even matters outside of your argument with that author?
I didn't mention names so the original argument wouldnt be brought up. As I mentioned it was the reason I asked this question but I only said that for context. You dragging the original argument back is both pointless and creepy. How many stories did you search for before you found it?
 

KiraMinoru

Untitled Generic Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
473
Points
133
I didn't mention names so the original argument wouldnt be brought up. As I mentioned it was the reason I asked this question but I only said that for context. You dragging the original argument back is both pointless and creepy. How many stories did you search for before you found it?
It would take a person 5 seconds to figure out if you look at someone’s profile on SH for comment activity. They don’t need to search at all. It’s all out in the open for everyone to see.
 

AryaX

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
230
Points
83
While I definitely want lewd hentai stories, with succubi and tentacles, bondage, etc, with lots of slimy and lewd hentai fun, at the same time, the parts of the stories that actually depict sex... tend to be rather weak... boring... especially when it goes on and on and on... I am not quite sure why its so... if its "bad" writing... or if the subject matter is just... impossible... but I think... perhaps...

While some "sex episodes" could be "long", possibly even continue for multiple chapters on straight and still be ok... somehow... ? but whether it is contained within one chapter, or continues for multiple chapters, the whole thing should always released at the same time :rolleyes:

There could be some sexual activity even in every chapter, but only if it takes only a small portion of each... like... less than a third or so... but no single "sex episode" should EVER be split between multiple releases (n) Nor should two consecutive releases consist of two different long sex episodes (n)
 

Zirrboy

Fueled by anger
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
1,135
Points
153
While I definitely want lewd hentai stories, with succubi and tentacles, bondage, etc, with lots of slimy and lewd hentai fun, at the same time, the parts of the stories that actually depict sex... tend to be rather weak... boring... especially when it goes on and on and on... I am not quite sure why its so... if its "bad" writing... or if the subject matter is just... impossible... but I think... perhaps...

While some "sex episodes" could be "long", possibly even continue for multiple chapters on straight and still be ok... somehow... ? but whether it is contained within one chapter, or continues for multiple chapters, the whole thing should always released at the same time :rolleyes:

There could be some sexual activity even in every chapter, but only if it takes only a small portion of each... like... less than a third or so... but no single "sex episode" should EVER be split between multiple releases (n) Nor should two consecutive releases consist of two different long sex episodes (n)
Sex works through buildup and release, so a constant trickle is most likely boring
 
Top