Question about Yaoi and Yuri.

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KrisVFX

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If you are a boy then... that's sus...
if you are a girl... then my answer would be that anyone can have different tastes. Even if they aren't gay or lesbian. And also yes, most of the people try to hide their fetishes since they would feel judged and embarrassed from most of the people.
Anyway, Im not trying to start an argument so I'm gonna stop right here.
 

Lloyd

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They are both degenerate so I don't like either.
 

BenJepheneT

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i'll say this as a straight, red-blooded man:

if given the choice, i'd rather see two hot chicks kissing than two burly men smooching. it's the same reason why guys mostly play female avatars in games. if i have to stare at a pair of ass in my gameplay, i'd rather stare at a woman's ass.
 

tounokenja

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Yuri is cute, and full of emotions and sensuality, drenched in romance.

Yaoi is about sticking pp in another dude's butt, and acting angsty and rapey.

Girls might like seeing pp in butt, but most guys aren't cool with that unless they lean towards that already.

Traps/Crossdressing may involve pp, but if the person in question exhibits very girlish behavior, the minor issue of them having a pp is inconsequential, provided they have no plans to use it themselves, and are ok with having a pp in their butt.

A dude liking traps is not gay, neither is the trap in question. it is a perfectly cishet thing.

I happen to love Yuri not just because it's the embodiment of cute, but it's also of course in the more explicit examples amazing to see two hot chicks go at it.

Source: just a normal person who sometimes writes yuri. 5* yuri.
 

CupcakeNinja

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I will continue on that remark.

Men are naturally not “likely” to be gay.
Women on the other hand have a higher tendency to go homosexual. Every woman has at least something homo coded deep in her mind. The same can’t be said for men.
Meh. There's also been a stigma against being gay for so long. Even if you arent homophobic, its ingrained in the recent generations that liking gay stuff is "bad" or at least uncool. I remember that when I was a kid, people used to use the term gay just as a another word for dumb or not fun. Was used in a lotta different ways

Women, being lesbian was usually seen as kinda hot by men. Due to porn, it's wasnt as frowned upon.

Theres a lot of factors that go into it really
 
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Bloodysin28

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Women are more likely to be bisexual, men are way less likely. it comes down to simple biology especially around hormones.
 

Emi_the_Fairy

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Meh. There's also been a stigma against being gay for so long. Even if you arent homophobic, its ingrained in the recent generations that liking gay stuff is "bad" or at least uncool. I remember that when I was a kid, people used to use the term guy just as a another word for dumb or not fun. Was used in a lotta different ways

Women, being lesbian was usually seen as kinda hot by men. Due to porn, it's wasnt as frowned upon.

Theres a lot of factors that go into it really
Yeah, fetishization is a big factor into it. Also to my understanding yaoi can be a lot more overt which can collide with homophobia more. It's a complicated explanation, and as a lesbian it's pretty obnoxious how it can impact the material I want to read.

Also the whole 'women are more likely to be gay' is to my knowledge not really based on anything. There's no real reason to assume that.
 

MR.DANTE

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I think there are multiple reasons.
pure yaoi or yuri are romance, wich is usually a genere consumed by girls.
there are a lot of wish fulfilment gender bender where a guy get turned in to a girl and has a relationship with another girl.
there are more bi or lesbian woman than gay or bi man, since its better for a woman to share an excellent man with other women then to get stuck with a looser by herself or for an excellent woman being shared by multiple mans, so evolutionary women get something out of being bisexual or at list accept the possibility of it while mans don't and its actually counterproductive for them.
yuri has more traction as a supportive genere in fantasy, action or other genres since most mans find lesbians hot and are more likely to appreciate the addition of it in generally male predominantly genres
 

CupcakeNinja

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Yeah, fetishization is a big factor into it. Also to my understanding yaoi can be a lot more overt which can collide with homophobia more. It's a complicated explanation, and as a lesbian it's pretty obnoxious how it can impact the material I want to read.

Also the whole 'women are more likely to be gay' is to my knowledge not really based on anything. There's no real reason to assume that.
Heh. Speaking of overt, I remember a comedian I saw once talking about homophobia. Saying like, "I cant judge you for being homophobic. I dont know your life. Maybe you got some really spooky gay guys in your neighborhood i dont know about"

And i hought that was funny. Also kinda true. In anime and manga, they do be pretty over the top at times.

I feel that these pride parades also can give homosexuality a bad name. Have you seen how some people dress during those things? I mean yeah, I can understand if people end up having an aversion to homosexuals when the only ones they see are wearing leather straps and spikes and showing off their junk to kids without a care.
 

Biggest-Kusa-Out-There

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I don't think it has to do with the security of sexuality in straight men that much.
Oftentimes, Yaoi presents itself as an agressive take on gay men with very pronounced dominance bordering on rapey vibes from the 'dom man'. The forcefulness the character has when expressing his desire for the 'sub man' is something we as men are taught not to do, or even talk about. Sometimes even think. This dissonance can occur when we notice women consuming the very thing we are told they don't want/like. And while fantasy and reality should always be separate from one another, the important years of our lives in which we are impressionable teenagers present these attitudes when we talk with our peers about reading hobbies: A time when we don't have the emotional maturity to discern reality from fiction when it comes to tastes as a reader. You read what you want to experience at that age most of the time.
This aggressive man who forces himself on his love interest is something we are taught not to become by any means. The question that is usually asked in our minds is 'she likes this shit?', so it shapes into a prejudice based on ignorance, because nobody teaches about these subjects with any degree of depth for most men. It takes either the internet or a peer woman for this prejudice to go away later in life.
Now, Yuri is more often than not presented as a soft, careful, and emotional take on homosexual romance in which consent and care for the partner when faced with the adversities of life takes precedence over the sexualization of the characters. The generally mistaken notion that 'women can't rape' is the basis for greater acceptance of the genre since there is no forceful penetration and perceived humiliation in most Yuri. At least not between the two romantic partners. In most cases, the characters come from a place of hurt and are presented acceptance and offered healing through the romance between women. Something akin to 'My past hurt me' which is given the 'I understand, let's heal together' answer.
Yaoi does not present this understanding of hurt with the rapey 'dom man', as dominance of the 'weak' is a recurrent theme.
Now, as we consume more media, we seek that which we don't have. Most men don't experience this 'I understand, let's heal together' from a partner ever in their lives, so Yuri is a heaven for most. This understanding of emotions and forgiveness for having them in the first place is very sought after, unfortunately.
TLDR: we do be living in a society.
 

tiaf

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Why the heck is BL stamped off as merely rape?

There are so many consensual BL that concentrate on plot instead of smut, even forgoing smut entirely. There are also healing BL stories, it's not like it's entirely restricted to GL. But alas, now there is the answer to why there are fewer guys reading BL. The prejudice is running deep.

It's just harder to dig out the gems.
 

Biggest-Kusa-Out-There

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Why the heck is BL stamped off as merely rape?

There are so many consensual BL that concentrate on plot instead of smut, even forgoing smut entirely. There are also healing BL stories, it's not like it's entirely restricted to GL. But alas, now there is the answer to why there are fewer guys reading BL. The prejudice is running deep.

It's just harder to dig out the gems.
Dunno, maybe because the large majority of the ones circulated are about that?
Though a stereotype, fujoshis are women who oversexualize gay men and enjoy the power dynamics depicted in these stories to the point of non-con and forceful stuff. That's how it is, unfortunately.
Yes, there are gems. And as you said yourself... they have to be dug out.
 

KoyukiMegumi

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Why the heck is BL stamped off as merely rape?

There are so many consensual BL that concentrate on plot instead of smut, even forgoing smut entirely. There are also healing BL stories, it's not like it's entirely restricted to GL. But alas, now there is the answer to why there are fewer guys reading BL. The prejudice is running deep.

It's just harder to dig out the gems.
I was keeping myself from saying this. Since I have seen plenty of fucked up Yuri too. But I see people here hold Yuri to a pedestal.

I see both Genres as the same. They both have their good and bad.

For me, some Yuri are so unrealistic. We, women, are fucking shit storms to deal with. Quoting my bisexual female friend. And I am self-aware I am difficult at times. But fuck it, I feel like I am in the right. Emotions can be blinding.

Most men are straightforward, while women always come from the damn angle. Ladies, you know we do this. So when I see two girls being all understanding of one another all the time. All communication all the time. Heck, that is a fantasy relationship.

But heck, we are in fiction, right? I love my realism in stories. So, I tend to avoid full fluff stories.

BL usually has a rapey vibe, but that has to do more with the omega verse. Everyone is assaulting someone there. Including the Yuri. This is from what I have seen, and I read too much BL/Yaoi.

However, Yaoi and Yuri have plenty of assaults, too. We know what we see in Yaoi, but in Yuri, they paint them as cute moments. Boob grabs, kisses are the usual culprits. But heck, even unwanted penetration happens in Yuri too. Anything going into the body is penetration. Even with toys.

Dunno, maybe because the large majority of the ones circulated are about that?
Though a stereotype, fujoshis are women who oversexualize gay men and enjoy the power dynamics depicted in these stories to the point of non-con and forceful stuff. That's how it is, unfortunately.
Yes, there are gems. And as you said yourself... they have to be dug out.
BL usually has no sex, same with GL. Yuri and Yaoi, on the other hand, are sex-driven. Both are over-sexualized themes.



Men just read what they like. Let it be GL/Yuri or BL/Yaoi.

I prefer Yaoi/BL, why? Fewer boobs and vulva being thrown at my face. I am a simple gal for things like that.
 

tiaf

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It's not gay if the penis is cute.
The irony in this sentence and how other agree with it 100%. I see you lurkers.

I was keeping myself from saying this. Since I have seen plenty of fucked up Yuri too. But I see people here hold Yuri to a pedestal.

I see both Genres as the same. They both have their good and bad.

For me, some Yuri are so unrealistic. We, women, are fucking shit storms to deal with. Quoting my bisexual female friend. And I am self-aware I am difficult at times. But fuck it, I feel like I am in the right. Emotions can be blinding.

Most men are straightforward, while women always come from the damn angle. Ladies, you know we do this. So when I see two girls being all understanding of one another all the time. All communication all the time. Heck, that is a fantasy relationship.

But heck, we are in fiction, right? I love my realism in stories. So, I tend to avoid full fluff stories.

BL usually has a rapey vibe, but that has to do more with the omega verse. Everyone is assaulting someone there. Including the Yuri. This is from what I have seen, and I read too much BL/Yaoi.

However, Yaoi and Yuri have plenty of assaults, too. We know what we see in Yaoi, but in Yuri, they paint them as cute moments. Boob grabs, kisses are the usual culprits. But heck, even unwanted penetration happens in Yuri too. Anything going into the body is penetration. Even with toys.


BL usually has no sex, same with GL. Yuri and Yaoi, on the other hand, are sex-driven. Both are over-sexualized themes.



Men just read what they like. Let it be GL/Yuri or BL/Yaoi.

I prefer Yaoi/BL, why? Fewer boobs and vulva being thrown at my face. I am a simple gal for things like that.
I would say BL is a term that also includes sexual content. Shounen Ai is the innocent kind.

And yes, a lot of people gloss over the not consensual Yuri content. There is bad Yuri and bad Yaoi.

The trope of unequal power dynamics is in both genres. Especially in older works. But people talk as if only Yuri is moving away from that.

Also, no offense, but why is Yuri painted as if the protagonists always have to be broken and only the power of love can heal them? Like, can love not start from two healthy people that happen to hit it up?
 

Biggest-Kusa-Out-There

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I was keeping myself from saying this. Since I have seen plenty of fucked up Yuri too. But I see people here hold Yuri to a pedestal.

I see both Genres as the same. They both have their good and bad.

For me, some Yuri are so unrealistic. We, women, are fucking shit storms to deal with. Quoting my bisexual female friend. And I am self-aware I am difficult at times. But fuck it, I feel like I am in the right. Emotions can be blinding.

Most men are straightforward, while women always come from the damn angle. Ladies, you know we do this. So when I see two girls being all understanding of one another all the time. All communication all the time. Heck, that is a fantasy relationship.

But heck, we are in fiction, right? I love my realism in stories. So, I tend to avoid full fluff stories.

BL usually has a rapey vibe, but that has to do more with the omega verse. Everyone is assaulting someone there. Including the Yuri. This is from what I have seen, and I read too much BL/Yaoi.

However, Yaoi and Yuri have plenty of assaults, too. We know what we see in Yaoi, but in Yuri, they paint them as cute moments. Boob grabs, kisses are the usual culprits. But heck, even unwanted penetration happens in Yuri too. Anything going into the body is penetration. Even with toys.


BL usually has no sex, same with GL. Yuri and Yaoi, on the other hand, are sex-driven. Both are over-sexualized themes.



Men just read what they like. Let it be GL/Yuri or BL/Yaoi.

I prefer Yaoi/BL, why? Fewer boobs and vulva being thrown at my face. I am a simple gal for things like that.
While it's true that everything has a more aggressive side, the percentages in which each exists within the genre is world apart between the two when popular titles fly around. I know that if I dig deep enough I'll find the rapey strapon yuri, or the office lady who only gets in a relationship with the fmc to make her husband jealous, or others like them.

Is over 50% of Yaoi like Sakamichi no Apollon? No, that's why it was such a hit.
Is over 50% of Yuri like Citrus? No, that's why it was such a hit.

This pedestalization(?) of the genre is unhealthy and tends to look away from reality like most idealizations (like gay men being super rapey) and I agree with that 100%. I was trying to give my two cents as to why men like yuri more than yaoi while not automatically calling it homophobia.
 

tiaf

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You're right... I missremembered the title lmao. I meant Doukyusei...
Doukyusei is popular though. It got an anime. ANIME.

You don’t get an anime if the story isn’t popular or sells well. And the author isn’t solely doing BL. They also have more psychological and shoujo/sol works.
 
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