Question

[nowme_cres]

Can a person be so good at lying that they end up believing their own lies?

A lot of people do that and they don't even have to be good at lying. Delusional people do this all the time.

 

[Reinaislost]

Can a person be so good at lying that they end up believing their own lies?

It's possible, and can also be a very effective tool for self-improvement. However, you don't need to be an extraordinary liar for that. By repeating affirmations to yourself, for example, "I am a good person," enough time, and displaying false kindness to others (as well as being around people you consider to be good), the brain can be programmed to adopt these beliefs and behaviors. This, however, needs a lot of dedication and commitment.

If you want to adopt an author mindset, for instance, but find yourself distracted easily, I don't think this is going to work well for you.

only psychopaths use 24hrs instead of am/pm

Eh, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's convenient, if anything, as I don't need to add AM or PM each time I mention it to my foreign friends.

 

[K5Rakitan]

People lie to themselves all the time, like me telling myself I will stop binging YouTube and get back to writing. Or telling yourself one more game won't hurt

Or telling myself I won't buy any more toys for my kid for a certain period of time, but then something I kinda need comes up, so I add toys to the cart to meet the minimum order, and then the site gives me a coupon bundle that expires tomorrow, so now I've got birthday and Christmas presents for the next six years.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Are you one of those "my truth" types?

HOLY FUCK. YOU ARE. Dear ME the problem is when people like you BUTCHER the english language.

A Lie is a VERY SPECIFIC THING.

It must be Technically untrue, Spiritual Untrue, Deliberately Untrue, And you must have the INTENT to deceive.

Let use give examples:

1. "The Dress doesn't make you look fat." (Because the FAT makes you look fat.)

This statement is Spiritually untrue, but technically true. I also KNOW I giving a false impression and I am intending to deceive. This is NOT A LIE.

It is a deception. Technically true, I am attempting to DECEIVE someone, by stating a "truth". I am only stating PART of the truth.

2. "I am hungry as a horse."
This statement is technically untrue. I am not a horse, I cannot be as hungry as one. However, the spirit of the statement is true, I am very hungry and you understand my meaning. I am not stating something I know is untrue, and I have no intent to deceive. This is a METAPHOR.

3. In 1493, Columbus sailed the deep blue sea. That is when he discovered America.

My statement is neither Spiritual or Technically true, however, I honestly BELIEVE this. I am not intending to deceive you. This is simply an incorrect statement. I am just WRONG. Being wrong is not a lie.

4. "So I walked up to my brother and asked him, 'Is that A Walrus'?" (A Comedian telling a joke.)

Are jokes lies? One might think they are. Often the Comedian just stands up there and spouts a bunch of shit. HOWEVER, he is also A COMEDIAN ON STAGE IN A COMEDY CLUB. If you don't EXPECT to be lied to, yer an idiot. The Comedian is not lying, because he has no intension of convincing you he is telling the truth. It's just fiction. This applies to any form of entertainment. Fiction is FICTION. It isn't TRUE, but it isn't a LIE because nobody is trying to get you to believe it.

5. Opinions are never lies.

For example, I feel the world is flat.

Is this a lie? No. Because when I look out the window, it sure feels flat to me. I know it is round, but the optical illusion of the way the world is, it can FEEL flat. Now if I tell you a false opinion, technically my opinion can change very quickly. Because we cannot see inside people's heads, we have to assume they are 'true', however, we must also assume that the opinion is MEANINGLESS. When someone says, "I Think, I Feel, I Believe, I know" then whatever they say is Bullshit.

These are weasel words that make whatever you say afterwords meaningless. Yes, it's TRUE, but it doesn't matter. When someone uses weasel words, they are appealing to their REPUTATION. What do you think about the honor and integrity of the person making the statement. This goes for any commercial endorsements. A star says, "I buy Berts Bees. Buy Bert's Bees" This is their opinion and you should value that opinion based on how you value the person making the statement.

However, in a court of law, it don't mean shit.


So. Knowing all this, HOW COULD YOU LIE TO YOURSELF?

I must make the statement with the intent to deceive myself. However, how can I, If I KNOW what I am saying isn't true?
If I believe what I am saying to myself is true, Then I am NOT TRYING TO DECEIVE MYSELF, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.

It has a VERY specific term: Self-Deception.

This differs from just deception. Normal Deception is an attempt to misdirect someone to believe an untruth, without technically lying. This can be done by making leading statements, or omiting important details, or asking leading questions.

Did Ed Kill Jill?

That's a QUESTION, not a statement. If it isn't a statement, it cannot be a lie.

Self-Deception is different from normal deception in that you believe X, but you make no attempt to disprove it. You don't test yourself. Like a feminist believes that women make 75% of men, when the latest data from the labor department shows that women under 30 make 103% of men, and as you go older, it dips down to 92%, with a total aggregate among working age women and men of 96% and climbing every year.

When confronted with these DOCUMENTED AND PROVABLE FACTS, the average feminist says, "NUH-UH" and just assumes you are lying and remains WILLFULLY IGNORANT.

Or Self-Deception.

This is also related to selection bias, where people will trust people's OPINIONS over FACTS.
"I don't care what they tell you. My Grandma said Cleopatra was black"

Shit like this is Self-Decepton. The person BELIEVES everything they are saying, but are wrong. However, they have no desire to accept anything that goes against their world view. It is NOT a lie, because they TRUELY believe it.


Then we come to the person who can accept two contradictory facts at the same time in their head.
"I Love You"
"I Am Only Trying To Get A Free Dinner Out Of You"

This is called Cognitive Dissonance. It is a FORM of Self-deception, but still self-deception. It is when you hold two completely contradictory facts in your head at the same time and accept both as true. Basically what you have to do if you are a Russian soldier every single day.

IF I tell the truth, I will Be Shot.
I will Lie about my successes, and the story will become "truth".



So what IS a lie? "I am six foot four." (On my dating profile)

I am six foot zero. This is technically, spiritually, intentionally untrue, and I am trying to deceive someone.

Understand?

 

[Sola-sama]

HOLY FUCK. YOU ARE. Dear ME the problem is when people like you BUTCHER the english language.

A Lie is a VERY SPECIFIC THING.

It must be Technically untrue, Spiritual Untrue, Deliberately Untrue, And you must have the INTENT to deceive.

Let use give examples:

1. "The Dress doesn't make you look fat." (Because the FAT makes you look fat.)

This statement is Spiritually untrue, but technically true. I also KNOW I giving a false impression and I am intending to deceive. This is NOT A LIE.

It is a deception. Technically true, I am attempting to DECEIVE someone, by stating a "truth". I am only stating PART of the truth.

2. "I am hungry as a horse."
This statement is technically untrue. I am not a horse, I cannot be as hungry as one. However, the spirit of the statement is true, I am very hungry and you understand my meaning. I am not stating something I know is untrue, and I have no intent to deceive. This is a METAPHOR.

3. In 1493, Columbus sailed the deep blue sea. That is when he discovered America.

My statement is neither Spiritual or Technically true, however, I honestly BELIEVE this. I am not intending to deceive you. This is simply an incorrect statement. I am just WRONG. Being wrong is not a lie.

4. "So I walked up to my brother and asked him, 'Is that A Walrus'?" (A Comedian telling a joke.)

Are jokes lies? One might think they are. Often the Comedian just stands up there and spouts a bunch of shit. HOWEVER, he is also A COMEDIAN ON STAGE IN A COMEDY CLUB. If you don't EXPECT to be lied to, yer an idiot. The Comedian is not lying, because he has no intension of lying to you. It's just fiction. This applies to any form of entertainment. Fiction is FICTION. It isn't TRUE, but it isn't a LIE because nobody is trying to get you to believe it.

5. Opinions are never lies.

For example, I feel the world is flat.

Is this a lie? No. Because when I look out the window, it sure feels flat to me. I know it is round, but the optical illusion of the way the world is, it can FEEL flat. Now if I tell you a false opinion, technically my opinion can change very quickly. Because we cannot see inside people's heads, we have to assume they are 'true', however, we must also assume that the opinion is MEANINGLESS. When someone says, "I Think, I Feel, I Believe, I know" then whatever they say is Bullshit.

These are weasel words that make whatever you say afterwords meaningless. Yes, it's TRUE, but it doesn't matter. When someone uses weasel words, they are appealing to their REPUTATION. What do you think about the honor and integrity of the person making the statement. This goes for any commercial endorsements. A star says, "I buy Berts Bees. Buy Bert's Bees" This is their opinion and you should value that opinion based on how you value the person making the statement.

However, in a court of law, it don't mean shit.


So. Knowing all this, HOW COULD YOU LIE TO YOURSELF?

I must make the statement with the intent to deceive myself. However, how can I, If I KNOW what I am saying isn't true?
If I believe what I am saying to myself is true, Then I am NOT TRYING TO DECEIVE MYSELF, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.

It has a VERY specific term: Self-Deception.

This differs from just deception. Normal Deception is an attempt to misdirect someone to believe an untruth, without technically lying. This can be done by making leading statements, or omiting important details, or asking leading questions.

Did Ed Kill Jill?

That's a QUESTION, not a statement. If it isn't a statement, it cannot be a lie.

Self-Deception is different from normal deception in that you believe X, but you make no attempt to disprove it. You don't test yourself. Like a feminist believes that women make 75% of men, when the latest data from the labor department shows that women under 30 make 103% of men, and as you go older, it dips down to 92%, with a total aggregate among working age women and men of 96% and climbing every year.

When confronted with these DOCUMENTED AND PROVABLE FACTS, the average feminist says, "NUH-UH" and just assumes you are lying and remains WILLFULLY IGNORANT.

Or Self-Deception.

This is also related to selection bias, where people will trust people's OPINIONS over FACTS.
"I don't care what they tell you. My Grandma said Cleopatra was black"

Shit like this is Self-Decepton. The person BELIEVES everything they are saying, but are wrong. However, they have no desire to accept anything that goes against their world view. It is NOT a lie, because they TRUELY believe it.


Then we come to the person who can accept two contradictory facts at the same time in their head.
"I Love You"
"I Am Only Trying To Get A Free Dinner Out Of You"

This is called Cognitive Dissonance. It is a FORM of Self-deception, but still self-deception. It is when you hold two completely contradictory facts in your head at the same time and accept both as true. Basically what you have to do if you are a Russian soldier every single day.

IF I tell the truth, I will Be Shot.
I will Lie about my successes, and the story will become "truth".



So what IS a lie? "I am six foot four." (On my dating profile)

I am six foot zero. This is technically, spiritually, intentionally untrue, and I am trying to deceive someone.

Understand?

Verily, thou hast spoken true, good Sir. Thy eloquent elucidation upon the intricacies of falsehood and such artful deception doth merit thee the highest accolades, akin to the renowned Nobel prize.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

HOLY FUCK. YOU ARE. Dear ME the problem is when people like you BUTCHER the english language.

A Lie is a VERY SPECIFIC THING.

It must be Technically untrue, Spiritual Untrue, Deliberately Untrue, And you must have the INTENT to deceive.

Let use give examples:

1. "The Dress doesn't make you look fat." (Because the FAT makes you look fat.)

This statement is Spiritually untrue, but technically true. I also KNOW I giving a false impression and I am intending to deceive. This is NOT A LIE.

It is a deception. Technically true, I am attempting to DECEIVE someone, by stating a "truth". I am only stating PART of the truth.

2. "I am hungry as a horse."
This statement is technically untrue. I am not a horse, I cannot be as hungry as one. However, the spirit of the statement is true, I am very hungry and you understand my meaning. I am not stating something I know is untrue, and I have no intent to deceive. This is a METAPHOR.

3. In 1493, Columbus sailed the deep blue sea. That is when he discovered America.

My statement is neither Spiritual or Technically true, however, I honestly BELIEVE this. I am not intending to deceive you. This is simply an incorrect statement. I am just WRONG. Being wrong is not a lie.

4. "So I walked up to my brother and asked him, 'Is that A Walrus'?" (A Comedian telling a joke.)

Are jokes lies? One might think they are. Often the Comedian just stands up there and spouts a bunch of shit. HOWEVER, he is also A COMEDIAN ON STAGE IN A COMEDY CLUB. If you don't EXPECT to be lied to, yer an idiot. The Comedian is not lying, because he has no intension of convincing you he is telling the truth. It's just fiction. This applies to any form of entertainment. Fiction is FICTION. It isn't TRUE, but it isn't a LIE because nobody is trying to get you to believe it.

5. Opinions are never lies.

For example, I feel the world is flat.

Is this a lie? No. Because when I look out the window, it sure feels flat to me. I know it is round, but the optical illusion of the way the world is, it can FEEL flat. Now if I tell you a false opinion, technically my opinion can change very quickly. Because we cannot see inside people's heads, we have to assume they are 'true', however, we must also assume that the opinion is MEANINGLESS. When someone says, "I Think, I Feel, I Believe, I know" then whatever they say is Bullshit.

These are weasel words that make whatever you say afterwords meaningless. Yes, it's TRUE, but it doesn't matter. When someone uses weasel words, they are appealing to their REPUTATION. What do you think about the honor and integrity of the person making the statement. This goes for any commercial endorsements. A star says, "I buy Berts Bees. Buy Bert's Bees" This is their opinion and you should value that opinion based on how you value the person making the statement.

However, in a court of law, it don't mean shit.


So. Knowing all this, HOW COULD YOU LIE TO YOURSELF?

I must make the statement with the intent to deceive myself. However, how can I, If I KNOW what I am saying isn't true?
If I believe what I am saying to myself is true, Then I am NOT TRYING TO DECEIVE MYSELF, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.

It has a VERY specific term: Self-Deception.

This differs from just deception. Normal Deception is an attempt to misdirect someone to believe an untruth, without technically lying. This can be done by making leading statements, or omiting important details, or asking leading questions.

Did Ed Kill Jill?

That's a QUESTION, not a statement. If it isn't a statement, it cannot be a lie.

Self-Deception is different from normal deception in that you believe X, but you make no attempt to disprove it. You don't test yourself. Like a feminist believes that women make 75% of men, when the latest data from the labor department shows that women under 30 make 103% of men, and as you go older, it dips down to 92%, with a total aggregate among working age women and men of 96% and climbing every year.

When confronted with these DOCUMENTED AND PROVABLE FACTS, the average feminist says, "NUH-UH" and just assumes you are lying and remains WILLFULLY IGNORANT.

Or Self-Deception.

This is also related to selection bias, where people will trust people's OPINIONS over FACTS.
"I don't care what they tell you. My Grandma said Cleopatra was black"

Shit like this is Self-Decepton. The person BELIEVES everything they are saying, but are wrong. However, they have no desire to accept anything that goes against their world view. It is NOT a lie, because they TRUELY believe it.


Then we come to the person who can accept two contradictory facts at the same time in their head.
"I Love You"
"I Am Only Trying To Get A Free Dinner Out Of You"

This is called Cognitive Dissonance. It is a FORM of Self-deception, but still self-deception. It is when you hold two completely contradictory facts in your head at the same time and accept both as true. Basically what you have to do if you are a Russian soldier every single day.

IF I tell the truth, I will Be Shot.
I will Lie about my successes, and the story will become "truth".



So what IS a lie? "I am six foot four." (On my dating profile)

I am six foot zero. This is technically, spiritually, intentionally untrue, and I am trying to deceive someone.

Understand?

TLDR: So I can lie to myself? Or no?

 

[ControversialOpinion]

HOLY FUCK. YOU ARE. Dear ME the problem is when people like you BUTCHER the english language.

A Lie is a VERY SPECIFIC THING.

It must be Technically untrue, Spiritual Untrue, Deliberately Untrue, And you must have the INTENT to deceive.

Let use give examples:

1. "The Dress doesn't make you look fat." (Because the FAT makes you look fat.)

This statement is Spiritually untrue, but technically true. I also KNOW I giving a false impression and I am intending to deceive. This is NOT A LIE.

It is a deception. Technically true, I am attempting to DECEIVE someone, by stating a "truth". I am only stating PART of the truth.

2. "I am hungry as a horse."
This statement is technically untrue. I am not a horse, I cannot be as hungry as one. However, the spirit of the statement is true, I am very hungry and you understand my meaning. I am not stating something I know is untrue, and I have no intent to deceive. This is a METAPHOR.

3. In 1493, Columbus sailed the deep blue sea. That is when he discovered America.

My statement is neither Spiritual or Technically true, however, I honestly BELIEVE this. I am not intending to deceive you. This is simply an incorrect statement. I am just WRONG. Being wrong is not a lie.

4. "So I walked up to my brother and asked him, 'Is that A Walrus'?" (A Comedian telling a joke.)

Are jokes lies? One might think they are. Often the Comedian just stands up there and spouts a bunch of shit. HOWEVER, he is also A COMEDIAN ON STAGE IN A COMEDY CLUB. If you don't EXPECT to be lied to, yer an idiot. The Comedian is not lying, because he has no intension of convincing you he is telling the truth. It's just fiction. This applies to any form of entertainment. Fiction is FICTION. It isn't TRUE, but it isn't a LIE because nobody is trying to get you to believe it.

5. Opinions are never lies.

For example, I feel the world is flat.

Is this a lie? No. Because when I look out the window, it sure feels flat to me. I know it is round, but the optical illusion of the way the world is, it can FEEL flat. Now if I tell you a false opinion, technically my opinion can change very quickly. Because we cannot see inside people's heads, we have to assume they are 'true', however, we must also assume that the opinion is MEANINGLESS. When someone says, "I Think, I Feel, I Believe, I know" then whatever they say is Bullshit.

These are weasel words that make whatever you say afterwords meaningless. Yes, it's TRUE, but it doesn't matter. When someone uses weasel words, they are appealing to their REPUTATION. What do you think about the honor and integrity of the person making the statement. This goes for any commercial endorsements. A star says, "I buy Berts Bees. Buy Bert's Bees" This is their opinion and you should value that opinion based on how you value the person making the statement.

However, in a court of law, it don't mean shit.


So. Knowing all this, HOW COULD YOU LIE TO YOURSELF?

I must make the statement with the intent to deceive myself. However, how can I, If I KNOW what I am saying isn't true?
If I believe what I am saying to myself is true, Then I am NOT TRYING TO DECEIVE MYSELF, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT.

It has a VERY specific term: Self-Deception.

This differs from just deception. Normal Deception is an attempt to misdirect someone to believe an untruth, without technically lying. This can be done by making leading statements, or omiting important details, or asking leading questions.

Did Ed Kill Jill?

That's a QUESTION, not a statement. If it isn't a statement, it cannot be a lie.

Self-Deception is different from normal deception in that you believe X, but you make no attempt to disprove it. You don't test yourself. Like a feminist believes that women make 75% of men, when the latest data from the labor department shows that women under 30 make 103% of men, and as you go older, it dips down to 92%, with a total aggregate among working age women and men of 96% and climbing every year.

When confronted with these DOCUMENTED AND PROVABLE FACTS, the average feminist says, "NUH-UH" and just assumes you are lying and remains WILLFULLY IGNORANT.

Or Self-Deception.

This is also related to selection bias, where people will trust people's OPINIONS over FACTS.
"I don't care what they tell you. My Grandma said Cleopatra was black"

Shit like this is Self-Decepton. The person BELIEVES everything they are saying, but are wrong. However, they have no desire to accept anything that goes against their world view. It is NOT a lie, because they TRUELY believe it.


Then we come to the person who can accept two contradictory facts at the same time in their head.
"I Love You"
"I Am Only Trying To Get A Free Dinner Out Of You"

This is called Cognitive Dissonance. It is a FORM of Self-deception, but still self-deception. It is when you hold two completely contradictory facts in your head at the same time and accept both as true. Basically what you have to do if you are a Russian soldier every single day.

IF I tell the truth, I will Be Shot.
I will Lie about my successes, and the story will become "truth".



So what IS a lie? "I am six foot four." (On my dating profile)

I am six foot zero. This is technically, spiritually, intentionally untrue, and I am trying to deceive someone.

Understand?

What's with the theatrics? Could have simply said it's not a lie because there's no intent. That seems to be what you're mainly arguing.

Still, there is intent. Someone can intend to lie but then be so stupid that they believe it and become delusional.

That was the main point I was making. Just because you're dumb enough to fall for your own lie doesn't mean it stops being a lie.

 

[Kureous]

Wait, let me expand on the question. Let's say a person started lying and knew he/she was lying to another person or a group of people. Then, enough time passed. Let's say years or decades, and that person forgot that they were lying and started believing and acting as if their lie was true? Is there a clinical condition for that? Some psychological condition? I need it for research...

 

[Agentt]

Or telling myself I won't buy any more toys for my kid for a certain period of time, but then something I kinda need comes up, so I add toys to the cart to meet the minimum order, and then the site gives me a coupon bundle that expires tomorrow, so now I've got birthday and Christmas presents for the next six years.

Capitalism is good at manipulation...

 

[BB_Tensei]

Swear I'll stop pvping and write a novel...

 

[SailusGebel]

No. They can't. You cannot LIE to yourself.

Bruh.

 

[Alseki.]

I disagree with all of you saying it is possible to lie to yourself.

You can't deceive yourself.

 

[Lloyd]

It's not a lie of you believe it.