Random fantasy & stuff discussion

[SolerFox]

The mc in those novels usually have a ton of mana, which is the reason why they can get away with it. It is sort of like naruto with shadow clones. Another reason why, is that the gods usually gives the mc either a good or near-perfect control over mana, though it isn't mentioned much. This would explain why a person, who has never interacted with mana before, would have such good control. This control over mana would help with controlling spells and lowering the cost of said spells. With that type of control, anyone can use chantless magic.

Note: in the end, whether the mc uses chants with their magic or not is up to the author. To me, chanting is a useful part of spells: it lowers the costs, it helps improve the mental image, it helps clear the mind so the mage in question can focus on the spell, in some cases chanting can improve the output of the spell, etc.
A component of magic is one's belief, so if the mc believes that chanting has no purpose, then chanting would either have a reduced effect or no effect at all. A good ex of this is 'the rising of the shield hero' where the four weapons will get stronger based on what the wielder believes.

 

[drakensji]

The mc in those novels usually have a ton of mana, which is the reason why they can get away with it. It is sort of like naruto with shadow clones. Another reason why, is that the gods usually gives the mc either a good or near-perfect control over mana, though it isn't mentioned much. This would explain why a person, who has never interacted with mana before, would have such good control. This control over mana would help with controlling spells and lowering the cost of said spells. With that type of control, anyone can use chantless magic.

Note: in the end, whether the mc uses chants with their magic or not is up to the author. To me, chanting is a useful part of spells: it lowers the costs, it helps improve the mental image, it helps clear the mind so the mage in question can focus on the spell, in some cases chanting can improve the output of the spell, etc.
A component of magic is one's belief, so if the mc believes that chanting has no purpose, then chanting would either have a reduced effect or no effect at all. A good ex of this is 'the rising of the shield hero' where the four weapons will get stronger based on what the wielder believes.

I didn't see that part of shield hero. I stopped when they met the otherworld scythe dude and lady.

What do you think of "the irregular at magic high school" magic system? I personally like it a lot. It's one of the rare modern setting magic systems. I wanted to make a story in a similar setting but maybe with a slightly different magic system

 

[SolerFox]

I like the concept, but I wouldn't say I like how they executed it. there are other stories like this, and I do like the concept, it is just that I didn't really enjoy watching "the irregular at magic high school."

A few reasons why I was not too fond of it is what they did to the mc and that it has a pay to win vibe.

1.) the mc is basically an AI in a human shell. The main reason why he has such low potential in magic is what his family did to him. He was forced to learn and use a forbidden spell that takes most of his processing power to maintain. his personality is reset when he is killed and is replaced with a previously saved copy. His family treats him like trash, even his sister. You can see this when she killed him, and you can tell since that spell only works when he dies. His main directive is to protect his sister. He is essentially a bodyguard that has little to no say in what he does.

2.) the pay to win vide comes from how the magic programming language is treated. The main people who can use this are nobles and wealthy families. The regular people can only get their hands on the technology that uses the magic programming language is when they join the military or if they get accepted in a school that teaches magic. In essence, it would come down to who you know and how much you are willing to pay for it. The only way for this magic programming language to become mainstream is in cyberpunk or some other futuristic-like world.

Note: as I said before, I like the concept of a magic programming language, and I know it can work well. A programming language is very similar to the runic magic languages.

 

[drakensji]

I like the concept, but I wouldn't say I like how they executed it. there are other stories like this, and I do like the concept, it is just that I didn't really enjoy watching "the irregular at magic high school."

A few reasons why I was not too fond of it is what they did to the mc and that it has a pay to win vibe.

1.) the mc is basically an AI in a human shell. The main reason why he has such low potential in magic is what his family did to him. He was forced to learn and use a forbidden spell that takes most of his processing power to maintain. his personality is reset when he is killed and is replaced with a previously saved copy. His family treats him like trash, even his sister. You can see this when she killed him, and you can tell since that spell only works when he dies. His main directive is to protect his sister. He is essentially a bodyguard that has little to no say in what he does.

2.) the pay to win vide comes from how the magic programming language is treated. The main people who can use this are nobles and wealthy families. The regular people can only get their hands on the technology that uses the magic programming language is when they join the military or if they get accepted in a school that teaches magic. In essence, it would come down to who you know and how much you are willing to pay for it. The only way for this magic programming language to become mainstream is in cyberpunk or some other futuristic-like world.

Note: as I said before, I like the concept of a magic programming language, and I know it can work well. A programming language is very similar to the runic magic languages.

Yeah i also hate their sibling relationship. It's pretty much incest except Tatsuya probably can't get aroused.

The pay to win factor seems pretty inherent to the worldbuilding. Mages are rare, they create noble famies over the generations, and the mages seem to all be used as military weapons (this seems to be important as multiple characters are trying to change this).

Speaking of programming /runic language, you should read "Zeph Malston, The Aether Mage". Its a world similar to our modern world except with magic. There the runes evolved to be similar to programming language, though it's more hardware than software.

 

[SolerFox]

I read that one, and I liked it though I don't remember the magic system. It was more of a slice of life with a fantasy/isekai twist for me.

(do you want to switch topics or continue talking about magic language systems? there is still a good part left, like for ex: the limits of each magic language/system, the type of spells, spell-crafting, theorizing about possible spells, the difference and similarities of each element, etc.)

 

[drakensji]

I read that one, and I liked it though I don't remember the magic system. It was more of a slice of life with a fantasy/isekai twist for me.

(do you want to switch topics or continue talking about magic language systems? there is still a good part left, like for ex: the limits of each magic language/system, the type of spells, spell-crafting, theorizing about possible spells, the difference and similarities of each element, etc.)

I think we should exhaust each topic until we have nothing more to say, unless we grow tired of it.

The greatest inherent limit to language magic is that you have to speak it. Sure you mentioned chant revocation but at that point is it language magic? If you don't have to even chant in your head then its only a matter of wills and not of language.

Having to chant the spell means that anything faster than words is a huge danger (guns, close quarters combat, arrows?, traps). Conscious thought just can't match the speed of muscle memory and instinct. Of course if you have access to passive effects than it might not be a big problem.

There is more to say but i think I'll let you decide some things about the system first before i discuss in more detail

 

[SolerFox]

Chant revocation is still a part of language magic. A language is always a language as long as its purpose still exists while using it. An example of this is sign language, and its purpose is to let people who are mute to communicate. An ex of an energy equivalent of sign language would be in naruto, chant shortening would be when they use one seal to use a Jutsu, and chant revocation would be Jutsu like the rasengan. So a magic language purpose is to use mana as the medium to convey the castor intent. This would explain why some monsters can use magic. This would mean that chanting is one way of conveying intent, chant shortening would be a mix of using one's thoughts and chanting, and that chant revocation would be conveying intent using one's thoughts; they all use mana as the medium.

As for the speed of spells compared to anything else, it would depend on the technology level, tactics of mages, and mix classes. It is a fantasy world, and if it has a game system attached, then a lot of shortcomings can be overcome that way. Though for a non-game system solution, then as mentioned previously:

1. the technology level. The technology level in most fantasy is usually low. The technology level does make sense; why would someone go through the process to create technology that either a mage or some enchanted object would have the same result. In other words, it is a matter of convenience; technology was made for convenience's sake. Magic is a sort of middle ground; it is convenient enough that people won't complain but, it is inconvenient enough that people had created magically enchanted objects. This would mean that fantasy worlds with a high level of technology would be in the distant future of a regular fantasy world, which would also mean that magic would have plenty of time to progress and overcome technology. However, technology would progress much faster if the majority of people are truly not able to use magic. Though at this point, livelihood magic would more than likely exist, and that would both slow down and speed up the process.

2.) The tactics of mages. In most fantasy mages, usually have something that would warn them and something to protect them while fighting. This usually involves a spell that has little to no cost to the mage or an enchanted object that would act as a sonar of sorts. A mage would usually have a barrier up in battle, though it would depend on the experience of the mage in question on when and where they would cast their barrier. There would be spells that can speed up one's perception, body strengthening magic, trap detection, and spells and can let the castor escape, though it would be the mage's preference if they learn those types of life-saving spells. A veteran mage would have learned those types of magic and more than likely created their own.

3. mix classes. As you know, everyone has their way of doing things. In my opinion, everyone would have a mixed class, but I'm getting off-topic. Mixed classes exist because they wanted to make their own path. One of these paths would be a spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman. This path exists because the creator was trying to fix one of the glaring weaknesses of mages. Mages can fight long and medium-range, but it would take a fairly experienced mage to fight close-range. Even if a mage can fight close-range, a warrior would be more experienced in that field. So a spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman was created to fix that weakness.

 

[drakensji]

Chant revocation is still a part of language magic. A language is always a language as long as its purpose still exists while using it. An example of this is sign language, and its purpose is to let people who are mute to communicate. An ex of an energy equivalent of sign language would be in naruto, chant shortening would be when they use one seal to use a Jutsu, and chant revocation would be Jutsu like the rasengan. So a magic language purpose is to use mana as the medium to convey the castor intent. This would explain why some monsters can use magic. This would mean that chanting is one way of conveying intent, chant shortening would be a mix of using one's thoughts and chanting, and that chant revocation would be conveying intent using one's thoughts; they all use mana as the medium.

As for the speed of spells compared to anything else, it would depend on the technology level, tactics of mages, and mix classes. It is a fantasy world, and if it has a game system attached, then a lot of shortcomings can be overcome that way. Though for a non-game system solution, then as mentioned previously:

1. the technology level. The technology level in most fantasy is usually low. The technology level does make sense; why would someone go through the process to create technology that either a mage or some enchanted object would have the same result. In other words, it is a matter of convenience; technology was made for convenience's sake. Magic is a sort of middle ground; it is convenient enough that people won't complain but, it is inconvenient enough that people had created magically enchanted objects. This would mean that fantasy worlds with a high level of technology would be in the distant future of a regular fantasy world, which would also mean that magic would have plenty of time to progress and overcome technology. However, technology would progress much faster if the majority of people are truly not able to use magic. Though at this point, livelihood magic would more than likely exist, and that would both slow down and speed up the process.

2.) The tactics of mages. In most fantasy mages, usually have something that would warn them and something to protect them while fighting. This usually involves a spell that has little to no cost to the mage or an enchanted object that would act as a sonar of sorts. A mage would usually have a barrier up in battle, though it would depend on the experience of the mage in question on when and where they would cast their barrier. There would be spells that can speed up one's perception, body strengthening magic, trap detection, and spells and can let the castor escape, though it would be the mage's preference if they learn those types of life-saving spells. A veteran mage would have learned those types of magic and more than likely created their own.

3. mix classes. As you know, everyone has their way of doing things. In my opinion, everyone would have a mixed class, but I'm getting off-topic. Mixed classes exist because they wanted to make their own path. One of these paths would be a spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman. This path exists because the creator was trying to fix one of the glaring weaknesses of mages. Mages can fight long and medium-range, but it would take a fairly experienced mage to fight close-range. Even if a mage can fight close-range, a warrior would be more experienced in that field. So a spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman was created to fix that weakness.

So what are the weaknesses in your opinion? And would sign language become staple knowledge for mages? As it is convenient to be silent, and sometimes hand speed can surpass spoken speed. At that point, would chanting be relegated to sign language, the world of mages becoming like naruto?


Under what circumstances will an animal manifest magic? When their will is strong enough? When their "body language" is in the right sequence, and over the course of evolution magic beasts ingrained the magic poses in their instincts?
Is this maybe how warrior "skills" work? Body language inducing subtle or weaker (or simply different) magic effects?

 

[SolerFox]

Magic languages are a language in the end and therefore have the same weaknesses. By that, I mean for the person who learns one magic language and wants to learn another magic language, would run into similar problems as with people trying to learn multiple languages. Some languages would have more words than others, the language would be structured differently, some words might look similar but will have a different meaning, etc. each magic language would be suited in some situations but not in others.

I wouldn't say sign language would become a staple for mages. It would come down to convenience, efficiency, needs, and benefits.

Animals/monsters usually manifest magic when they are in an area that has a good amount of mana since the majority of a fantasy world usually fits the criteria. Places like volcanos, oceans, mountains, and deep under the earth usually have high mana that has the affinity from there environment: fire, water, wind, and earth. Since monsters usually gather around these places, they would, more than likely, have the same affinity as the surrounding mana. Keep in mind that dungeons almost always fit these criteria. They don't use body language; they are creatures of instinct. Monsters usually become sentient when they are powerful enough and/or they are born from a sentient monster. When they become sentient is when they start to learn magic truly. When a monster becomes sentient, they usually get a human/humanoid form, and they use this to infiltrate towns/cities to learn magic. If they don't get a human/humanoid form, then they have to continue with their business until a mage or a group of adventures come by and defeats them.

For warriors, it would be more simple than that. You could say that their skills are engraved into them. They use their skills and practice their techniques constantly, to the point that it becomes part of their instinct. It would be to the point that their instinct is 'to cut', 'to hit', 'to protect/defend', etc and the mana/magic would help them out. They believe in their skill and techniques, and they become stronger the more they improve. You could say that warrior's magic is a mix between monsters and the church, though it would be more intent than anything. They become spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman when they mix in how mages use their mana/magic.

Note: bloodline magic/magic from bloodlines is only information being passed down from the one's ancestor/parent so that the child would know of their techniques. This magic is only useful for those inside the family. This magic is only used when the castor believes that they wouldn't be there to teach them. In other words, the castor only uses this when they know they won't survive long enough to teach their magic to their decedents. Think of bloodlines like a magic tome or like an auto assist, though it would be up to a point since it would only be for the magic that the castor put in the bloodline.

 

[drakensji]

Magic languages are a language in the end and therefore have the same weaknesses. By that, I mean for the person who learns one magic language and wants to learn another magic language, would run into similar problems as with people trying to learn multiple languages. Some languages would have more words than others, the language would be structured differently, some words might look similar but will have a different meaning, etc. each magic language would be suited in some situations but not in others.

I wouldn't say sign language would become a staple for mages. It would come down to convenience, efficiency, needs, and benefits.

Animals/monsters usually manifest magic when they are in an area that has a good amount of mana since the majority of a fantasy world usually fits the criteria. Places like volcanos, oceans, mountains, and deep under the earth usually have high mana that has the affinity from there environment: fire, water, wind, and earth. Since monsters usually gather around these places, they would, more than likely, have the same affinity as the surrounding mana. Keep in mind that dungeons almost always fit these criteria. They don't use body language; they are creatures of instinct. Monsters usually become sentient when they are powerful enough and/or they are born from a sentient monster. When they become sentient is when they start to learn magic truly. When a monster becomes sentient, they usually get a human/humanoid form, and they use this to infiltrate towns/cities to learn magic. If they don't get a human/humanoid form, then they have to continue with their business until a mage or a group of adventures come by and defeats them.

For warriors, it would be more simple than that. You could say that their skills are engraved into them. They use their skills and practice their techniques constantly, to the point that it becomes part of their instinct. It would be to the point that their instinct is 'to cut', 'to hit', 'to protect/defend', etc and the mana/magic would help them out. They believe in their skill and techniques, and they become stronger the more they improve. You could say that warrior's magic is a mix between monsters and the church, though it would be more intent than anything. They become spell sword/magic swordsman/magic swordswoman when they mix in how mages use their mana/magic.

Note: bloodline magic/magic from bloodlines is only information being passed down from the one's ancestor/parent so that the child would know of their techniques. This magic is only useful for those inside the family. This magic is only used when the castor believes that they wouldn't be there to teach them. In other words, the castor only uses this when they know they won't survive long enough to teach their magic to their decedents. Think of bloodlines like a magic tome or like an auto assist, though it would be up to a point since it would only be for the magic that the castor put in the bloodline.

What do the gods do? Do they isolate themselves because anything they say will manifest by magic? Or can they control their magic language? Whats stopping an evil god from destroying the world or spreading chaos with a wave of their hand (or their voice)?

Would sirens be an op race in this kind of world, and would medusa's petrification be something innate or a product of language magic in some way?

 

[SolerFox]

Gods usually do whatever they want, though they may be drawn to things similar to their divinities. Ex: a god/goddess of smithing may get more enjoyment out of life when they are smithing, though that wouldn't be the only thing they would enjoy.

Gods could do one of three things: live on the planet, live in the divine realm, or do nothing. Ex: dunmachi, regular fantasy, worlds where the gods can't interfere.

Gods would be able to speak in a universal language so that no misunderstanding occurs. Meaning that when they speak than anyone would hear it in the language that they are most familiar with and in such a way that each individual would be able to understand. It expresses the meaning in words in such a way that everyone would be able to understand.

The reason why the god's language is named as such is that usually, only the gods can use it. It requires a complete understanding of the rune, what it represents, how it reacts to everything else, and the exact opposite of the rune. A basic ex would be the rune for fire; one would have to such an in-depth understanding that it would be impossible, usually due to magical/technology level and time, for someone to understand truly. So if someone used a fire rune in the god's language, then it would be like a sun appeared on the planet while an ice age happens around the area.

Gods usually need faith from their followers to do anything in the physical world, though this depends on the god's circumstance.

ex:

1.) for a world like dunmachi, the gods walk the earth with you. This would let the gods get faith a lot easier, but since they are on the planet, they are limited in what they can do. Keep in mind that even if you do kill the god's mortal shell, the god would still live, it would just take some time before they descend again. This situation usually becomes a give and take relationship. In this type of situation, there are usually less holy/unholy wars; there is still war, just usually not of the divine kind.

2.) for a regular fantasy world, the gods are either in the divine plane or in their respective pocket dimension. This is where the gods are usually divided and have holy/unholy crusades to weaken the other gods' power while increasing their own.

3.) Worlds where the gods can't interfere. In this type of situation, the gods are usually heavily restricted and usually can't go down to the physical plane in a convenient matter. These types of gods usually only talk to their most devout followers. Any war by the church are usually not instigated by the gods, but instead by the head priests.

Each race would have there unique types of benefits. A siren would have an easier time learning a chant for a spell, but I believe the spells that they would best at are an illusion, wind, water, and sound type spells. In other words, they would more than likely have an affinity for them, though there is always an exception, like for ex: they could have an affinity for fire, earth, or whatever.

In my opinion, medusas petrifaction is a passive skill mixed with a curse. It is always on and will affect anyone that doesn't have the proper defense or resistance. The skill only works when you look into her eyes, so if you bring a blindfold or wear contacts, then nothing would happen. You could wear glasses, but it would depend on how bad the person's eyesight is. Your eyesight could be so bad that the skill wouldn't be effective because you aren't looking ar her even if you look directly ar her.

Note: gods are only restricted by gods, usually by a more powerful group of gods. Though it would be like in dunmachi, where everyone would have a say and the powerful neutral god would say the final verdict. This is usually the case of too much power. They usually restrict the use of the god's language in the physical plane, but they can use it whenever in the divine plane. when they do use the god's language in the physical realm, it's power is usually restricted to prevent unneeded destruction.

 

[drakensji]

How would summoning and necromancy work? What are their restrictions? When multiple people try summoning the same thing, what happens?

 

[SolerFox]

summoning:
summoning would be a part/branch of contract magic. You are making a contract with the monster/animal in question. It usually comes down to if the creature/sentient monster likes you or you have something that the other wants. For mindless monsters, this is easier since they usually follow the strong. All you have to do is to defeat them without killing them and heal them in the end or find a wounded/weakened monster and heal him/her while gaining their trust. Even though this is part of summoning, this would be defined as taming magic. Taming magic is where the monster follows you instead of you summoning it from who knows where.

The actual summoning magic is for more powerful and sentient monsters. The reason why is that they have their own life, think of Lucy Heartfilia from fairy tail summoning magic, but without the keys.

When people try summoning the same thing, this usually is only for dangerous monsters or summoning something that shouldn't be summoned. Think of a monster that can't be reasoned with and will usually kill anything at first sight. This can be used to summon demons, of the infernal kind, into the physical realm. What the summoners are doing, in this case, is weakening the boundary and acting as a beacon. Monsters that are similar to a story in a Lovecraftian book would come from this situation.
Though summoning something with multiple castors can be used when the cost of summoning is too high, though that is usually the mana cost.

If multiple summoners somehow got the same monster for a summon and they try to summon that same monster to fight each other, then the summons would more than likely not fight but would try to break up the fight. However, it would depend on the circumstance, the preference of the summons, and what is written in the contract.

necromancy:
as I said in a previous post, unlimited power the arcane path, chapter 6, comment section:

in my opinion, necromancy is just the manipulation of bone and flesh; they usually have to research to do anything soul-wise. To me, it seems that the necromancer class should have been more than the bad guy class. When you think about it, to maintain a skeleton or a zombie would require more knowledge than the church currently has on any race body. They can regrow limbs first using bone manipulation and then flesh using flesh manipulation.

It seems to me that the class requires a willing subject to use the healing spell. The reason why I say this is that they aren't able to affect anyone living beside themself. A necromancer can use their spells on the dead, which has no will to reject and therefore works. It makes sense why the class went down the path it did, simply because it would require a huge amount of trust for them not to mess anything up. For humans, you only really see this in cults.

When you think about it, this class would have been helpful in many fields, cooking, leatherworking, alchemy, basically, anything that would require organic materials to be moved/used.

Note: you can view the skeletons the necromancers raise are just empty vessels. Even though this class wasn't designed for granting immortal life, it does give a good starting point. It is like mind magic in a sense; if it is used responsibly, then it would heal the unhealable and help people in ways that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Though even though it is possible to help others with this ability, it is just as easy to hurt others. It is usually banned due to human nature and the fact that no one trusts people with that type of power.

Note: to me, the reason why necromancy magic/necromancer mana wouldn't mix well with the divine is the belief behind it. In other words, one of the core reasons why this type of mana/magic exists. The class necromancer represents rejecting god/the gods and taking a different path, similar to how some people would prefer science to religion. Since that is the case, it would make sense that the castor would have to mostly research for them to do any of their spells. To do flesh manipulation right would take a reasonable amount of time; this is not mentioning the many different races and monsters out there. In a sense, this is a self-made path of a nonbeliever.

 

[drakensji]

So what about soul magic? How would one learn it, and what can one do with it?
What about true undead, revenants that refused to die and stayed on earth as a walking corpse? How would one meet the requirements to become as such and what would be the consequences on their mind and personality?

 

[SolerFox]

soul magic:
the soul would be linked to your mana. So if you had mana sight and try to search for where it is coming from, you should eventually find it. Another way is to do the same thing, but you do it to yourself while meditating. Meditation usually clears the mind while increasing the regeneration of mana. Another way is to experiment on the true undead. Another way is to look through the various churches' spells and by paying attention to the wording of their version of the bible. Etc. All of these would be ways to see the soul and ways one might gain either soul sight or soul magic.

Soul magic at a low level would attract untethered souls from around the area. Keep in mind that the church in the area usually prevents this from happening inside the town, along with a good portion of the surroundings. After more research along the lines of where does the soul goes to, eventually, one should be able to gain access to the spiritual realm. Of course, nothing physical can enter there, but you could make a spell that would do what Ichigo from bleach does. People usually study soul magic so they can find a way to live forever. Soul magic would have its own spells to attack, defend, and heal, though it would depend on the story on how far this type of magic progressed. A few ex would be soul eater, bleach, trees of Aeons, cultivation stories, death mage does not want a fourth time, possibly a few dungeon stories, full metal alchemist/brotherhood, Hellsing/ultimate, etc.

Magic and mana can be used in many ways; one of them is to use your emotions to convey your intent while using mana as the medium. This is not usually a viable method as it would require a huge spike in emotion to influence mana. There are a couple of ways that it can work though it is usually not pleasant. Usually, having a lot of regret mix with a lot of anger and determination as you die would do the trick. As you can tell, a true undead would usually appear when a war, bandit attack, or some form of mass death and the people killing would often do things that they shouldn't.

The consequences on the true undead mind and personality would be minimal at first, though some might say that it would be twisted in some way, but what would you expect. After a while, keep in mind that they are immortal as long as no one kills them, their personality would degrade over time. Some may forget the cause of their regret and anger, but not the emotion behind it, therefore, eventually becoming a mindless undead. Others wouldn't forget the cause of their regret and anger, but would eventually forget about other things. The only way to deal with them is with holy magic, but you could help them pass on with necromancy though the odds are low in that regard. Holy magic helps them in a different way than you might expect. Since they didn't use necromancy to do that to themself that would mean that they would still believe in the existence of God. in other words, the mana they have wouldn't be considered the same as necromancy. Holy magic would heal them in a way that would help get rid of their resentment.

Note: The emotion part can explain the hero, saint/saintess, and demon king extraordinary magic. The hero would have courage, the saint/saintess would have compassion, the demon king would have hate/anger, and they would all have determination fueling their magic. similar to link, zelda, and ganondorf with the triforce.

Note: at a low level, you would probably see ghosts/spirits as small balls of flames. the higher the level the clearer the spirit would be. this is not to be confused with wraiths.

 

[drakensji]

soul magic:
the soul would be linked to your mana. So if you had mana sight and try to search for where it is coming from, you should eventually find it. Another way is to do the same thing, but you do it to yourself while meditating. Meditation usually clears the mind while increasing the regeneration of mana. Another way is to experiment on the true undead. Another way is to look through the various churches' spells and by paying attention to the wording of their version of the bible. Etc. All of these would be ways to see the soul and ways one might gain either soul sight or soul magic.

Soul magic at a low level would attract untethered souls from around the area. Keep in mind that the church in the area usually prevents this from happening inside the town, along with a good portion of the surroundings. After more research along the lines of where does the soul goes to, eventually, one should be able to gain access to the spiritual realm. Of course, nothing physical can enter there, but you could make a spell that would do what Ichigo from bleach does. People usually study soul magic so they can find a way to live forever. Soul magic would have its own spells to attack, defend, and heal, though it would depend on the story on how far this type of magic progressed. A few ex would be soul eater, bleach, trees of Aeons, cultivation stories, death mage does not want a fourth time, possibly a few dungeon stories, full metal alchemist/brotherhood, Hellsing/ultimate, etc.

Magic and mana can be used in many ways; one of them is to use your emotions to convey your intent while using mana as the medium. This is not usually a viable method as it would require a huge spike in emotion to influence mana. There are a couple of ways that it can work though it is usually not pleasant. Usually, having a lot of regret mix with a lot of anger and determination as you die would do the trick. As you can tell, a true undead would usually appear when a war, bandit attack, or some form of mass death and the people killing would often do things that they shouldn't.

The consequences on the true undead mind and personality would be minimal at first, though some might say that it would be twisted in some way, but what would you expect. After a while, keep in mind that they are immortal as long as no one kills them, their personality would degrade over time. Some may forget the cause of their regret and anger, but not the emotion behind it, therefore, eventually becoming a mindless undead. Others wouldn't forget the cause of their regret and anger, but would eventually forget about other things. The only way to deal with them is with holy magic, but you could help them pass on with necromancy though the odds are low in that regard. Holy magic helps them in a different way than you might expect. Since they didn't use necromancy to do that to themself that would mean that they would still believe in the existence of God. in other words, the mana they have wouldn't be considered the same as necromancy. Holy magic would heal them in a way that would help get rid of their resentment.

Note: The emotion part can explain the hero, saint/saintess, and demon king extraordinary magic. The hero would have courage, the saint/saintess would have compassion, the demon king would have hate/anger, and they would all have determination fueling their magic. similar to link, zelda, and ganondorf with the triforce.

Note: at a low level, you would probably see ghosts/spirits as small balls of flames. the higher the level the clearer the spirit would be. this is not to be confused with wraiths.

So true undead would essentially be fueled by emotions, and once they calm down they pass on?

Would it be possible for a true undead to render their state more permanent with necromancy? Becoming essentially a special race.

 

[SolerFox]

Emotions wouldn't fuel them in the way you are thinking. It would be more like casting a spell, which would have a passive effect, without realizing it. Emotion would be a good part of that spell and afterward. Ex: 'I can't die until the cause of my pain and suffering experience more pain than me; I will make them/him/her pay.' that emotion would be part of their personality. if they/someone ends up amplifying their regret/negative emotions then it would only make them stronger. think of when an mc goes berserk. the mc is not fueled by his emotions, but they are making the mc stronger with the costs of blinding them to anyone besides their target/targets.

They could, but I wouldn't recommend it. They still would believe in God, even though it would be a subconscious belief. They can prolong themselves by simply keeping their minds busy. This does sound like a simple solution, but keep in mind that they experienced trauma that very few people would experience, along with a very profound change. With all of that, the reason why they are true undead may not even be alive at that point. At this point, they would be hunted by everyone, even the necromancers. It would make sense why their sanity would end up like a wild animal's.

They would need to be in a death element focused area or something similar for them to retain their sanity completely. This is why a lot of undead appear when a mass death occurs. That amount of death would change an area; it may not be physical, but the change can be either mana-wise or spiritually. A good ex of this would be Awaken online: catharsis, death mage does not want a fourth time, etc. in both of the said examples, the mc found a way to tune the ambient mana to the death affinity. They did this either with the help of a death god or by their unique circumstance.

Note: though few people would experience the level of emotion needed for them to turn into true undead, it would still build up over time. They are immortal as long as no one kills them and/or they work out any regret they have left.

 

[SolerFox]

do you want to get into spell theorizing? basically coming up with possible spells by either coming up with new ones or building off an existing spell.
or do you want to get into how an affinity can affect/reflect a person?

 

[drakensji]

do you want to get into spell theorizing? basically coming up with possible spells by either coming up with new ones or building off an existing spell.
or do you want to get into how an affinity can affect/reflect a person?

Either way is fine, but i like the idea of spell theorizing. I wanted to come up with a way to make a spell customization program in a videogame (only in theory for now) , something like in Oblivion or Morrowind where you could change the damage and other parameters, but also maybe things like the shape of the spell, specific effects etc.

I always enjoy seeing creative ways in which certain spells and skills are used. In I Came Back but the World is Still a Fantasy!? the mc uses a buckler spell as a bowl, and a needle attack as chopsticks, which was fun to read

 

[SolerFox]

Do you want to change topics to something else? Sorry for taking so long to reply, I couldn't think of anything to write. The only thing I could add to what you said before is that every spell is just a form of manipulation, whether it is elemental and/or not. So theoretically, almost anything done in one element can be done with another element. The only exceptions are hyper-specialized spells, ex: spells that work with the element quirks instead of logic.