Reader Fame

Queenfisher

Bird?
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I am learning more and more about the site, but so far I noticed that there is the Famous/Rising/Known Author labels, but none for Readers? If there are, and I'm just stupid -- sorry!

I'm not sure if this is weird to ask about, but would it be possible to allow some recognition for Readers? Based on number of comments on different books, for example? Or liked comments from the Authors, or the number of Followed Authors in the Reader's profile? The most simple solution would be the amount of books the Reader is following and the amount of chapters read in them, and maybe the amount of reviews written.

Above all, if the Reader has nothing published at all, but is just exclusively on this site as a Reader -- can there not be made a special label like "Star Reader" or something like that? For members who are both Readers and Authors, there can be both labels displayed? Or depending on their personal choice?

I feel like Author recognition is a great thing, but in web novel format, the Readers are just as important and so would warrant recognition as well. Plus, good Readers are indispensable to all Authors, so it's a symbiosis ^^.

(There are plenty of famous movie and book critics in the outside world. Most writers would die to be read or reviewed by a specific critic, so Reader Recognition seems a pretty natural thing to tap into).

Edit.
The actual suggestion to implement which I posted much later in the thread:

1. The easiest way to implement it, in my head, would be to link it to likes to comments in the stories. Like, you get 500 likes on any comments on any stories, and you receive an upgrade to your Reader label. The next label change would be at 1000 likes, and et cetera.


2. More than that -- Reader Fame is a wrong way to call it, especially if what it does is essentially motivate the writers, or both the writers and readers to interact. I would call it Reader Identity, or Recognition instead, with ranks bearing titles like:

-- Engaged Reader (say, 250 likes)

-- Devoted Reader (~500 likes)

-- Motivational or Encouraging Reader (750 likes)

(yes, they're silly, but you get the idea)

-- And the ultimate one -- The Inspiring/Inspirational Reader (1000 likes).
 
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Tony

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The thing is, these are pretty basic features. If we want them, pretty much any other platforms provide them, better in fact.

Not to belittle your work here. You've done a good job, but, I think, though it seems to be incorrect, that you are focusing more on the writers side. I don't have problems with you focusing there, but considering that, features like this, that might have lots of potential issues, might just end being half-baked or create more problems. Not having this feature is better than having this feature poorly implemented.

I disagree that the reading list, series finder and release filtering is "pretty much any other platforms provide them, better in fact". There's no doubt that SH has a lot of work on and we're no where close to being the best out there but I haven't seen any platform with a reading list, series finder and release filtering with that many options. Can you tell me which platform you're referring to so I can see as an example?

Don't misunderstand me. There's no hate here. I'm really curious as to which site you're referring to so I can improve SH.

I agree that there's stuff that needs to be reworked though. I'm currently focused on the app but I'll take some break in between to rework and add to SH. SH is my main focus right now so I'm still trying to improve it.
 

Ral

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I still don't understand the downside to how you describe it since everything that you group as the downside of this potential tweak already exists exactly as you describe it. So... because it's already bad as it is, we shouldn't try to encourage good things at all? In the hopes that doing nothing eliminates the problems that already are???
You shouldn't build on bad foundation.

It is not about eliminating the problems or whatever, it is about not making things worse. When they already have problems with essentially very little reader interactions, how would they do when it is multiplied several times? Do you think they would do better by making them work more?
Also, I am not an optimist compared to you, even though it might seem like I am :blob_uwu:. I do see it for what it is -- I'm just saying that some (okay, many) writers on this site are depressed due to low engagement on the readers' side. So promoting liked comments specifically seems like a fairly nice solution because it's nothing new, just a label for a pattern that already exists.
I really understand what you are going for, I do; but there might be unintended consequences. Though, there is also the other result, it does nothing.

I more concerned actually that this would put more stress on SH/Tony. They have very little resources.
What you say about "fake-nice"-comments vs chad awesome honest comments -- I already addressed above. It's a non-issue. No one cares. What people do care about is being noticed or at least a push to keep going: motivation.
Oh, but people do care, especially the writers. As I said, the writers here are kinda delicate.
And regarding the Linnaeus allegory =), I just wanted to highlight that everything good you see about cucumbers in the store is because of the scientific labeling system that allowed people to properly group them and modify and evolve them to the condition you, or any other person, can buy in store without caring about how this naming system and scientific methodology works. What you now know of as "cucumber" is work of science (the OG cucumbers were shit, honestly! They were smol and bitter as hell, and I'm not even talking about other produce! Take a look at the OG watermelon), and science relies on something deeper than the surface level. In short, because somebody does use a system you don't -- you enjoy the fruit it bears without having to waste your own personal time on it.
Again, you they are roundabout. These improvements you said have already been done before this nomenclature thing. It is not the naming but the improvement of technology that does this. I mean, there are many times that things are shifted around and names are changed. They are seriously just names, giving plant names doesn't improve the plant.
That the system I proposed is encouragement and not a labeling misses the point of my argument: what it supposedly "records" is only a pattern that already exists. Maybe giving this pattern a name is encouraging, maybe not. But I don't see how giving it a name will suddenly crash the system or unleash an armageddon of horrors.
And it might not. But as I said, I'm pessimistic.

Though, if Tony wants to implements this. Why not. It is not really a bad feature at all. Great in fact. Just, it might just give them more work when they are overextended as it is.
For real -- it's a small plaque -- "Engaged Reader". No need to overdramatize it. I don't exactly imagine a TON of people rushing to get it like it's some kind of a Grand-Prix in who's the real deal on this site, and who isn't. I guess it will be nice for those who are already commenting a lot and get liked by others -- because what they do is kind of a work, and the work that promotes motivation for writers.
You don't know how small encouragement can do wonders. That is why trolls like what they are doing. Pretty much any form of attention is encouragement for them.
And they are currently doing this work absolutely for free (i.e. unnoticed and unrewarded). So I only thought that rewarding them for it might not be a bad idea.
It is not a bad idea. It is a great idea. Just that, I don't think it doesn't have its negative consequences. If Tony is !fighting! for the challenges it might bring, then why not. But I just really wanna point out that it might not be what they want.
P.S.: I get what you're saying about the resources spent on this -- I do! I just don't understand your other arguments that well...
Well, I'm just reacting when you kinda dismissed the negative things that this might have. "Don't worry about this or don't worry about that" and I just said you do have to worry.

Features do have their good and bad side. You don't really want to implement features by just looking at the good.

I don't really think this feature is bad. It is great for what it is intended. With that said. SH have the final say.
 

Ral

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I disagree that the reading list, series finder and release filtering is "pretty much any other platforms provide them, better in fact". There's no doubt that SH has a lot of work on and we're no where close to being the best out there but I haven't seen any platform with a reading list, series finder and release filtering with that many options. Can you tell me which platform you're referring to so I can see as an example?
More options doesn't actually means better.

Reading list. I actually like it even, though, in my list, it only contain one entry. It is uncluttered and have many nifty features. Still, other sites does have their own versions of reading list and they work just fine. I don't think people would be missing much of anything if they use other sites' reading list.

Series finder is good. Again, are people really going to miss these loads of options if they go to other sites?

Release filtering . . . what is so special about it? Sure other sites don't have it (though they have their own homepage gimmicks) but is it really that awesome or something?

Though, I kinda wished that latest updates have its own page though instead constantly scrolling down to get to it everytime you click next page. It gets annoying fast.

I'm not saying SH is bad. It is good. But these features are something others do offer (though, as you said, might have lesser options) in their own way. And as I said, having more options doesn't mean better, especially with the experience.

The thing is, these features aren't exactly something that would lock your readers to your site. Sure they can do more with it than with other sites but they aren't something that would make readers stay. They can go to other sites and pretty much have the same things there.
Don't misunderstand me. There's no hate here. I'm really curious as to which site you're referring to so I can improve SH.

I agree that there's stuff that needs to be reworked though. I'm currently focused on the app but I'll take some break in between to rework and add to SH. SH is my main focus right now so I'm still trying to improve it.
What SH is pretty much lacking though is the social aspect. Queenfisher kinda realizes this when he make this thread. Users just aren't interacting much with other users. It results to SH kinda feeling empty. Sure it has lots of options and things to thinker with but there is no one to talk to and share it with.

SH is pretty good with necessary features and it even have some gimmicks. It works as a site to publish and read fiction. But the social side just looks dismal. Just imagine Youtube (which pretty much what SH is like just with books instead of videos) but with very little to no comments, likes, views, etc.
 
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Tony

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More options doesn't actually means better.

Reading list. I actually like it even, though, in my list, it only contain one entry. It is uncluttered and have many nifty features. Still, other sites does have their own versions of reading list and they work just fine. I don't think people would be missing much of anything if they use other sites' reading list.

Series finder is good. Again, are people really going to miss these loads of options if they go to other sites?

Release filtering . . . what is so special about it? Sure other sites don't have it (though they have their own homepage gimmicks) but is it really that awesome or something?

Though, I kinda wished that latest updates have its own page though instead constantly scrolling down to get to it everytime you click next page. It gets annoying fast.

I'm not saying SH is bad. It is good. But these features are something others do offer (though as you said might be lacking in options) in their own way. And as I said, having more options doesn't mean better, especially with the experience.

The thing is, these features aren't exactly something that would lock your readers to your site. Sure they can do more with it than with other sites but they aren't something that would make readers stay. They can go to other sites and pretty much have the same things there.

I agree that having more options doesn't mean it's better. I personally think the reading list and series finder at SH is the best I've seen on any platform but I felt it was a bit cocky to outright say it so I avoided saying it :blobrofl:. Plus I'm obviously biased and it's my own opinion.

The release filtering is awesome but I understand that it's not for anyone. It'll work better once you get more novels on the site. Being able to design the main page as you wish is always a plus imo.

I also agree that features aren't everything but that wasn't my point. I was just curious which features (reading list, release filtering, series finder) you saw from other platforms which "exists and even work better" so I could stalk them for ideas :blobrofl:

What SH is pretty much lacking though is the social aspect. Queenfisher kinda realizes this when he make this thread. Users just aren't interacting much with other users. It results to SH kinda feeling empty. Sure it has lots of options and things to thinker with but there is no one to talk to and share it with.

This is 100% true. I would personally prefer a more social site with less features too. It's more fun that way. Features aren't everything. That's definitely something SH needs to work on.

Chapter comments are currently at 1500+ a day so it's not exactly empty but adding more social aspect to the site is always a plus. That's something I should improve on next after the SH app. I'll ask for ideas when that time comes. An app comes first though to bring in more users to the site.

SH is pretty good with the basic features and it even have some gimmicks. It works as a site to publish and read fiction. But the social side just looks dismal. Just imagine Youtube (which pretty much what SH is like just with books instead of videos) but with very little to no comments, likes, views, etc.

I definitely need to work on SH being more social and a more fun site. That should be one of SH's main focus.
 

Ral

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I agree that having more options doesn't mean it's better. I personally think the reading list and series finder at SH is the best I've seen on any platform but I felt it was a bit cocky to outright say it so I avoided saying it :blobrofl:. Plus I'm obviously biased and it's my own opinion.
They are great in their own way. I actually liked the reading list very much.
The release filtering is awesome but I understand that it's not for anyone. It'll work better once you get more novels on the site. Being able to design the main page as you wish is always a plus imo.

I also agree that features aren't everything but that wasn't my point. I was just curious which features (reading list, release filtering, series finder) you saw from other platforms which "exists and even work better" so I could stalk them for ideas :blobrofl:
Well, imo the main page purpose is to send the users further in. It is to make whoever was in there to be send on their way fast. This is pretty much why sites like Youtube uses algorithms (even considered to be breaching your privacy) to show you videos you are likely to click (no it is not Trending but Recommended). Others would emphasize their search feature (sometimes even taking up a large part of the top of the main page and would follow you as you scroll) so can just go search for the content you want and be on your way (this is pretty much the way we access internet, we enter many sites through search engines like google and not through the sites main page).

One feature I really like is one that just offers a list of genre (or other categories) that you can click to send you on your way. This is what FictionPress does (it practically what the main page is), and Webnovel (hover over Browse) and Wattpad (click Browse) does in some form. SH has a form of this of course but it take too many steps to use (click read, then click genre, the page loads, then click on the genre you want)
This is 100% true. I would personally prefer a more social site with less features too. It's more fun that way. Features aren't everything. That's definitely something SH needs to work on.

Chapter comments are currently at 1500+ a day so it's not exactly empty but adding more social aspect to the site is always a plus. That's something I should improve on next after the SH app. I'll ask for ideas when that time comes. An app comes first though to bring in more users to the site.
I don't access SH through mobile but I want to see it develops. Maybe I'll just install it just to look.
 

BenJepheneT

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coughcough achievements coughcough
Achievements can also tie into the original purpose of the thread.
just a personal opinion but it feels kinda vapid and empty. not to diss on our dear holy Tony but achievements in SHF just seem like a desperate move to cull a slowly dying community
 

Ace_Arriande

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just a personal opinion but it feels kinda vapid and empty. not to diss on our dear holy Tony but achievements in SHF just seem like a desperate move to cull a slowly dying community

I get why people might feel that way, but most people love achievements or feel indifferent at worst. And it's for SH, not SHF. Achievements motivate people to comment more, to review more, to write more - I'm a filthy slut for achievements, personally. Many, many others are achievement-driven as well. People love hunting achievements. When RR revised their achievements and fancied them up, it was met with tons of positive feedback. WN has achievements, too, that people try pursuing and that most don't see as some sort of desperate move. Heck, when games are publishing to Steam, you get people barraging the developers asking if there will be achievements and, if not, when there will be some. The only reason I even participated in some RR contests and community games was solely because of the achievements. Was that participation motivated by the shallow desire for an achievement? Sure, but the achievements still boosted overall participation.

Achievements:

1. Boost community participation among readers (which is the whole point of this thread). The titles proposed in the OP and what authors already have for reader counts are already basically achievements. There can be achievements for posting a total amount of comments as well as for receiving a total amount of likes on comments (to boost thoughtful comments, since the comments that actually try are typically the ones that get likes).

2. Would boost reviews if there are achievements for reviewing stories and getting likes on their reviews. This benefits both authors and readers. There will be more reviews, which many authors want and cite SH as severely lacking in at the moment, and readers will have more opinions to read before starting a new series.

3. Motivate more people to join contests if there are ever achievements tied to them. More people participating in contests = more new stories for people to read = more potential for somebody to start a new story that will get huge and blow up in popularity to bring people to and keep them on SH. I started a story on RR solely (or rather, it was what convinced me to write an idea I had been wanting to write for a while despite already having 4 stories) for a community contest that had a generic achievement attached to it. Not even anything unique. Ended up becoming one of the most followed stories on the website. I'm pretty sure it would be a good thing for SH to get more successful stories that lots of people want to read, so why not provide authors with a bit of extra motivation? Heck, getting an achievement motivates me more than getting new patrons on Patreon does, and I promise you that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

And if you give some way for people to show off their achievements, such as choosing a specific achievement to be displayed when commenting or showing a list of achievements under the author name/picture like RR does on series' pages, then that's even more motivation. People like to get achievements. People like to get achievements even more when they get to show said achievements off.

Now, I won't disagree that it's all very shallow, but us humans are shallow creatures. We love prestige. We love feeling like we earned something, even if it's for something as simple as commenting "thanks for the chapter" on 5000 chapters, and we love to show off what we've achieved. So, as far as the purpose of this entire thread goes, I believe that achievements would be extremely beneficial to boosting community engagement while also making things more "fun" for a significant portion of users.
 
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AkalE

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2020-07-01.png

Ben is just trying to look nonchalant holding two of the three top spots...
I'm on to you @BenJepheneT :blobspearpeek:
 

YuriDoggo

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Series finder is good. Again, are people really going to miss these loads of options if they go to other sites?

Release filtering . . . what is so special about it? Sure other sites don't have it (though they have their own homepage gimmicks) but is it really that awesome or something?

Both of these are so good. SH has spoiled me. I can't even use other sites without feeling bad that I don't have these available. These two especially are SO GOOD and SO CONVENIENT.
 

YuriDoggo

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If there's achievements, please don't make any time-limited ones. Because I feel bad if I can't be a completionist, or have the option to be a completionist. Also make them designed as waifus!

SH the waifu-collection site lmao. Bait all the gacha players too.
 

Tony

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I don't access SH through mobile but I want to see it develops. Maybe I'll just install it just to look.

I wouldn't bother with it. I only released an alpha version because I promised a progress update. It doesn't work that good right now and it's bad.

coughcough achievements coughcough
Achievements can also tie into the original purpose of the thread.
If there's achievements, please don't make any time-limited ones. Because I feel bad if I can't be a completionist, or have the option to be a completionist. Also make them designed as waifus!

SH the waifu-collection site lmao. Bait all the gacha players too.

I don't really promise features because it'll be awhile before I can get to it but I've been thinking of achievements for SH. It's pretty easy to implement and doesn't take that long. The SH app comes first though because SH needs an app. So no promises but I've been thinking of a good way to implement it.

and I'm definitely not a fan of achievements with expiration dates. "SH the waifu-collection site" sounds fun but all the other platforms would make fun of us :blobrofl:
 

yansusustories

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I personally think the reading list and series finder at SH is the best I've seen on any platform but I felt it was a bit cocky to outright say it so I avoided saying it
The release filtering is awesome but I understand that it's not for anyone.
Can I just jump in again and say that this is seriously why I love NU so much? It's so great to throw everything out of sight that isn't BL and then go look for specific types of stories to find the one that fits 100% what I want to read right now. On SH, I'm just waiting for more stories to be posted and completed before turning the release filtering on and stuffing several reading lists full so I can binge :blob_melt:
And honestly, the series finder is definitely one of the best out there. Like, if you search something on wattpad or webnovel - even if you have the specific name of a story - they'll show you any shit but not what you were originally searching for. Also, on webnovel, the sort function is regularly broken. The series finder on SH (and NU) is great!

Chapter comments are currently at 1500+ a day so it's not exactly empty but adding more social aspect to the site is always a plus. That's something I should improve on next after the SH app. I'll ask for ideas when that time comes. An app comes first though to bring in more users to the site.
Out of curiosity: Can you tell us how many chapters are roughly posted per day? :blob_hmm_two:
Btw, it's great to hear that you're working on an app! I do know from some readers that they prefer apps instead of the mobile website. I actually think that just having an app might help with engagement a bit since it might bring in a different type of reader. But maybe that's just hopeful thinking :blob_sweat:
 

Tony

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Hmph. Who cares what other platforms think. They don't have waifu achievements, so all they're gunna be is jealous.

We should probably pretend to be normal though :sweating_profusely:

Can I just jump in again and say that this is seriously why I love NU so much? It's so great to throw everything out of sight that isn't BL and then go look for specific types of stories to find the one that fits 100% what I want to read right now. On SH, I'm just waiting for more stories to be posted and completed before turning the release filtering on and stuffing several reading lists full so I can binge :blob_melt:
And honestly, the series finder is definitely one of the best out there. Like, if you search something on wattpad or webnovel - even if you have the specific name of a story - they'll show you any shit but not what you were originally searching for. Also, on webnovel, the sort function is regularly broken. The series finder on SH (and NU) is great!

:blob_party:


Out of curiosity: Can you tell us how many chapters are roughly posted per day? :blob_hmm_two:
Btw, it's great to hear that you're working on an app! I do know from some readers that they prefer apps instead of the mobile website. I actually think that just having an app might help with engagement a bit since it might bring in a different type of reader. But maybe that's just hopeful thinking :blob_sweat:

The stats for how many chapters are posted a day is there in the database but I can't easily grab that number right now so I'm not sure. As for the app, it should bring in a lot more users... is what I'm hoping. That's why it's my main focus right now!
 

AliceShiki

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I just wanted to say that the Release Filtering is my favorite function of Scribbly by a large margin~

Like, I never used the Series Finder for anything, the Home Page has always been more than enough to give me new novels I may be interested on... And that's only because I can filter the home page results to fit into what I love~ <3
 
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