Reader Reception: SH vs RR! (rant warning: f-bombs abound)

Fox-Trot-9

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I'm almost finished with the first volume of Villainess, Retry! One more chapter left. Anyway, since this is a rant, please excuse me:

After writing and posting the book on both sites, I can confidently say that RR is not a good fit for Villainess, Retry! I think, since RR is predominantly focused on litRPG / isekai stories where there's OP MCs who have all the agency and badassery in the world to begin with, readers there aren't used to reading a story where the MC actually has to endure a hostile environment that's out to harm said MC, who's not able to deal with it YET! So, of course, my villainess isn't an isekaied girl who knows the events and tricks to foil the two-faced heroine or knows the events and tricks to turn the hostile male love interests to her side in a single confrontation with her haters! She's not that kind of MC, and my story's not a f*cking litRPG story!

To me, suffering builds character, and obstacles need to be difficult for stories to hold my interest, because after reading countless villainess manga and manhwa and manhua and written stories, I've realized I tend to stick with the ones that have me rooting for the underdog villainess, the ones that have real consequences for her outside of wussy exile, the ones where I don't get bored knowing that it'll be an easy win for the villainess if she just gives it a half-assed try! Hence, call me a sadist, but I prefer my villainess with an emotional involvment in the story beyond the superficial 'The prince is an asshole, and the heroine's a bitch, but I don't give a f*ck, b/c I know the f*cking plot and can own your f*cking asses anytime I want!'-attitude, b/c I'm f*cking tired of reading villainess MCs that act like this! After reading countless villainess MCs like this, I've been itching for a villainess that acts like a f*cking human being! You know, cry? Be sad? Be angry? Be bitchy? You know, someone that gives a f*ck? But since there's literally none I could find, I wrote it myself.

So now to the RR reviewers and commenters of my book there, I will address you thus:

F*ck your complaints about my MC having no f*cking agency! It's a f*cking villainess story where she has to deal with f*ckers trying to f*ck with her all the f*cking time, for f*cks sake, you f*cks! It takes time for MCs to build up their agency, b/c it takes time for the story to unfold! It's called a f*cking character arc! Don't like it? Then f*ck off!

End of rant:

Thank you for bearing with me there. Truth be told, they're not total f*ck-bags. I'm just a bit miffed with a good does of villainess hot flashes. But compared to the reception Villainess, Retry!'s had on SH, it's been pretty good here, way better than on RR. So my questions to you are these:

For those who posted their stories in RR and SH, how's the reader reception for them in both sites? Were there any differences? Was that why you also post on this site? I can't be the only one, right? Right? :cry:
 
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avaseofpeonies

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I have nothing constructive to say other than good for you sticking to your guns. I sympathize, since I'm also writing that thing I couldn't find but I wanted it so I'm writing it myself, and not finding many others who want to read it. (RR wouldn't let me post mine there, so I have no answer to your actual question.)
 

Fox-Trot-9

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Ouch! I think I saw another person on SH who left RR, b/c they wouldn't post his story there.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

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I also posted in RR before. I left for my peace of mind, since as an author who tries to stick to my stories, I definitely need it.

What reviews did I receive there?

1) Someone who gave me a low rating there because apparently, he "couldn't take the bullying in my work because he was bullied before". And yes, I did put the bullying warning (at the start of the chapter) and tags (afair).
2) Some Melvin Wong complained that my isekai novel is a 'Nakama BS of Shounen Power of Friendship' or the gist is like that. According to him, RR readers want to 'fuck their saints', so basically, he wants sex which my novel had none. And gave me 0.5* for that.
3) Someone who can't accept that there are other cultures aside the Western, 'liberal' one, and so would give you a low rating for a 'weak-ass, beta simp' MC. (Apparently, they want an MC who can bulldoze an entire continent at the very start of your 1st chapter, and have sex with the ladies as soon as saving them.)

Tbf, there are a lot of feedbacks in RR written as if the reviewer hated your entire family and your entire existence, yet is useful in improving your work. (Mainly because you'd get bitter in trying to prove them wrong.) But yes, if you want peace of mind and just writing it for fun, don't post in RoyalRoad.

And yes, a lot of them wanted 'something new', yet criticizes your work, your personality, your entire family and clan and your very existence because you wrote something that didn't appeal to their 'connoisseur' tastes.

Ah, my real life work is already stressful as it is. I don't want another asshole to ruin my day in writing; it's where I find my stress-relief.

My suggestion? Look for sites that are receptive of your work. It's not running away from the challenge, but treat it more as 'choosing your battles'. As you said (and as what I observed too), RR audience lean on litRPG. SH tends to be more on the general side of things, though a lot of works here have the smut, genderbender tags. HoneyFeed people loves anime-ish or LN-style stories. Wattpad...though they're kinda silent, you can find some peeps there who love OELNs. Syosetu...hmm, JPN audience is pretty silent when it comes to English works, but they still support it.

WebNovel's kinda dead, especially after they slapped more 'money-making' features in the recent updates. (My readers there just turned silent)

Edit: Oh, I forgot. SH have a bias against 'harem' stories, or at least, a lot of active members.
 
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M.G.Driver

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I'm almost finished with the first volume of Villainess, Retry! One more chapter left. Anyway, since this is a rant, please excuse me:

After writing and posting the book on both sites, I can confidently say that RR is not a good fit for Villainess, Retry! I think, since RR is predominantly focused on litRPG / isekai stories where there's OP MCs who have all the agency and badassery in the world to begin with, readers there aren't used to reading a story where the MC actually has to endure a hostile environment that's out to harm said MC, who's not able to deal with it YET! So, of course, my villainess isn't an isekaied girl who knows the events and tricks to foil the two-faced heroine or knows the events and tricks to turn the hostile male love interests to her side in a single confrontation with her haters! She's not that kind of MC, and my story's not a f*cking litRPG story!

To me, suffering builds character, and obstacles need to be difficult for stories to hold my interest, because after reading countless villainess manga and manhwa and manhua and written stories, I've realized I tend to stick with the ones that have me rooting for the underdog villainess, the ones that have real consequences for her outside of wussy exile, the ones where I don't get bored knowing that it'll be an easy win for the villainess if she just gives it a half-assed try! Hence, call me a sadist, but I prefer my villainess with an emotional involvment in the story beyond the superficial 'The prince is an asshole, and the heroine's a bitch, but I don't give a f*ck, b/c I know the f*cking plot and can own your f*cking asses anytime I want!'-attitude, b/c I'm f*cking tired of reading villainess MCs that act like this! After reading countless villainess MCs like this, I've been itching for a villainess that acts like a f*cking human being! You know, cry? Be sad? Be angry? Be bitchy? You know, someone that gives a f*ck? But since there's literally none I could find, I wrote it myself.

So now to the RR reviewers and commenters of my book there, I will address you thus:

F*ck your complaints about my MC having no f*cking agency! It's a f*cking villainess story where she has to deal with f*ckers trying to f*ck with her all the f*cking time, for f*cks sake, you f*cks! It takes time for MCs to build up their agency, b/c it takes time for the story to unfold! It's called a f*cking character arc! Don't like it? Then f*ck off!

End of rant:

Thank you for bearing with me there. Truth be told, they're not total f*ck-bags. I'm just a bit miffed with a good does of villainess hot flashes. But compared to the reception Villainess, Retry!'s had on SH, it's been pretty good here, way better than on RR. So my questions to you are these:

For those who posted their stories in RR and SH, how's the reader reception for them in both sites? Were there any differences? Was that why you also post on this site? I can't be the only one, right? Right? :cry:
I just read a few chapters of yours, and I think you're misunderstanding what the reviewers are saying when there's no agency.

Your specific premise directly removes agency from the MC. It's not because of the suffering, the hostile prince and miss edgeworth, it's because of the clones and DeeDee, which seems to be giving all the right moves and the MC is just tagging along.

It's the nature of your story I think, so it can't be fixed. But I also see where the reviewers are coming from. The clones in your story act as a System that directly forces the MC to act in a certain way (because they tried that way before).
 

Fox-Trot-9

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I just read a few chapters of yours, and I think you're misunderstanding what the reviewers are saying when there's no agency.

Your specific premise directly removes agency from the MC. It's not because of the suffering, the hostile prince and miss edgeworth, it's because of the clones and DeeDee, which seems to be giving all the right moves and the MC is just tagging along.

It's the nature of your story I think, so it can't be fixed. But I also see where the reviewers are coming from. The clones in your story act as a System that directly forces the MC to act in a certain way (because they tried that way before).
So basically, my story's f*cked, ugh! Shot myself in the foot there, didn't I?

Since you described it like a system, is there a way for that system to add agency that wasn't available to the MC beforehand? B/c she'll just get killed off like the other clones if she doesn't have their help.
 

Corty

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I started posting here and on RR the same time. I recieved criticism on both platform and they were valid corrections. BUT… while the readers here did it in a way it was constructive, I felt like being talked down on RR.

For example the first who point out my grammatical mistakes left me this after doing so:

Here, I was told what the most common mistakes were, how it should be corrected and what to look for not making them. I always edited all the errors when someone pointed it out, hell, I bought a grammarly subscription since then and use that too, just because the different ractions. On RR I never felt like that.

My second example was on a “controversial” part where the MC goes black out drunk, wakes up with a (modified) slave collar on her neck for a few chapters. (It was more of a source for banter between characters than anything serious in the story anyway…) I had comments here too that questioned it, or expressed their dislike for it. I get that, but at least those people were reasonable enough. And read further in the story to get the explanation in a few chapters how it happened. And waited for me to reply to the comments. Not on RR. Not even willing to have a discussion about it.


Of course he only left one more message saying he drops it because it is BS and deleted the comments.

I had a similiar experience here once and I know how people are. Yet first impressions are the most important and SH came off way friendlier and welcoming than RR. So after the book is done I’m focusing posting everything else here.

RR’s community simply feels off, a bit snobbish to me while here I feel the exact opposite. People seem much more open and helpful in a way that does not come off like “i know better than you”

Of course, I had my run in to similiar experience here, getting a review after 4 chapters but that is how things go. People are people at the end.


But all in all SH felt more welcoming, the interface is much more clean and easy to the eye, the tools avaiable for writers are also better imo… yeah, I’ll stick to SH only from now on.
 
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Eclectic_Asininity

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Really just comes off like you can't handle negative feedback. This sort of "us or them" mentality certainly doesn't help, and it's not a good idea to just shit on other communities because you weren't immediately welcomed with open arms. You need to separate your "readers" from "viewers," and realize that a few unfair negative reviews don't matter. Most readers don't care about a score, hell, all of my favorite novels are at like a 4 because because people really hate pragmatics for some reason.

Realistic portrayals of women aren't popular in the current cultural atmosphere now, you can only make pure damsel characters or flawless girlbosses. You can thank ESG for this cultural blight to the entertainment industry. Luckily it should be turning around since blackrock has been losing money and corporations are starting to abandon them as shareholders.

Oh right there is one more female character you are allowed to make: A man that gets genderbent and continues to act like a man.
 

Empyrea

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I checked RR's rules and realized I wouldn't be allowed over there. So I post here and most of my commenters are nice. I used to read over there a lot though and they do get a lot more of the negative comments. You might just chalk that up to accessability and numbers though. Ranting can be fun.
 

Fox-Trot-9

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Really just comes off like you can't handle negative feedback. This sort of "us or them" mentality certainly doesn't help, and it's not a good idea to just shit on other communities because you weren't immediately welcomed with open arms. You need to separate your "readers" from "viewers," and realize that a few unfair negative reviews don't matter. Most readers don't care about a score, hell, all of my favorite novels are at like a 4 because because people really hate pragmatics for some reason.

Realistic portrayals of women aren't popular in the current cultural atmosphere now, you can only make pure damsel characters or flawless girlbosses. You can thank ESG for this cultural blight to the entertainment industry. Luckily it should be turning around since blackrock has been losing money and corporations are starting to abandon them as shareholders.

Oh right there is one more female character you are allowed to make: A man that gets genderbent and continues to act like a man.
I know that I come across that way, and I'm sorry. But that's just the way I feel. I don't mean to antagonize an entire site with my words, but I was trying to blow off steam. It felt good, though, typing all those f-bombs. Reading through it like I was reciting a poetry slam did make me feel better.

As for portrayals of women, yes, i know. I guess that's why there's so many genderbending stories. I don't think I'm degenerate enough to write a genderbending story yet, but I'll give it some time and get more degenerate to write it. Till then, I'll stick to guns on the portrayal part. But yeah, you're right, I'm a pussy-ass. Trying my best not to be, though. Trying, okay? Trying!
I checked RR's rules and realized I wouldn't be allowed over there. So I post here and most of my commenters are nice. I used to read over there a lot though and they do get a lot more of the negative comments. You might just chalk that up to accessability and numbers though. Ranting can be fun.
Yeah, while I was on RR, I didn't really feel right there, like I was always an outsider looking in. I could never fit in RR, no matter how hard I tried. That's why I'm here. It's a lot more laid back here.
 
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M.G.Driver

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So basically, my story's f*cked, ugh! Shot myself in the foot there, didn't I?

Since you described it like a system, is there a way for that system to add agency that wasn't available to the MC beforehand? B/c she'll just get killed off like the other clones if she doesn't have their help.
I think you need to design the clones such that even they don't have the perfect picture, and have them make suggestions that the MC will not choose. A good way to show agency is to usually lay out the options, and have the MC choose an option that doesn't exist. Since you're the author, you can make the clones slightly dumber - they did fail their lives after all, right?

I liken your system of clones like Psycho-Pass's system of determining crime coefficient (spoilers if you haven't watch), but every system has pitfalls. The clones can help to narrow the actions of the MC by showing what doesn't work.

I hope that makes sense. At least that's how I make characters have agency, even though theoretically the character is being controlled by me and forced towards a certain plot point - but the readers don't feel that way.
 

Ilikewaterkusa

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I'm almost finished with the first volume of Villainess, Retry! One more chapter left. Anyway, since this is a rant, please excuse me:

After writing and posting the book on both sites, I can confidently say that RR is not a good fit for Villainess, Retry! I think, since RR is predominantly focused on litRPG / isekai stories where there's OP MCs who have all the agency and badassery in the world to begin with, readers there aren't used to reading a story where the MC actually has to endure a hostile environment that's out to harm said MC, who's not able to deal with it YET! So, of course, my villainess isn't an isekaied girl who knows the events and tricks to foil the two-faced heroine or knows the events and tricks to turn the hostile male love interests to her side in a single confrontation with her haters! She's not that kind of MC, and my story's not a f*cking litRPG story!

To me, suffering builds character, and obstacles need to be difficult for stories to hold my interest, because after reading countless villainess manga and manhwa and manhua and written stories, I've realized I tend to stick with the ones that have me rooting for the underdog villainess, the ones that have real consequences for her outside of wussy exile, the ones where I don't get bored knowing that it'll be an easy win for the villainess if she just gives it a half-assed try! Hence, call me a sadist, but I prefer my villainess with an emotional involvment in the story beyond the superficial 'The prince is an asshole, and the heroine's a bitch, but I don't give a f*ck, b/c I know the f*cking plot and can own your f*cking asses anytime I want!'-attitude, b/c I'm f*cking tired of reading villainess MCs that act like this! After reading countless villainess MCs like this, I've been itching for a villainess that acts like a f*cking human being! You know, cry? Be sad? Be angry? Be bitchy? You know, someone that gives a f*ck? But since there's literally none I could find, I wrote it myself.

So now to the RR reviewers and commenters of my book there, I will address you thus:

F*ck your complaints about my MC having no f*cking agency! It's a f*cking villainess story where she has to deal with f*ckers trying to f*ck with her all the f*cking time, for f*cks sake, you f*cks! It takes time for MCs to build up their agency, b/c it takes time for the story to unfold! It's called a f*cking character arc! Don't like it? Then f*ck off!

End of rant:

Thank you for bearing with me there. Truth be told, they're not total f*ck-bags. I'm just a bit miffed with a good does of villainess hot flashes. But compared to the reception Villainess, Retry!'s had on SH, it's been pretty good here, way better than on RR. So my questions to you are these:

For those who posted their stories in RR and SH, how's the reader reception for them in both sites? Were there any differences? Was that why you also post on this site? I can't be the only one, right? Right? :cry:
This is not related but why are you saying FUCK with an asterisk also why do you even have a trigger warning for it lol.

Storyfire is pretty nice.
 

LORD_SHAXX

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I checked RR's rules and realized I wouldn't be allowed over there. So I post here and most of my commenters are nice. I used to read over there a lot though and they do get a lot more of the negative comments. You might just chalk that up to accessability and numbers though. Ranting can be fun.
honestly. I would like to start posting there but the rules feel very restricting.
 

Fox-Trot-9

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I think you need to design the clones such that even they don't have the perfect picture, and have them make suggestions that the MC will not choose. A good way to show agency is to usually lay out the options, and have the MC choose an option that doesn't exist. Since you're the author, you can make the clones slightly dumber - they did fail their lives after all, right?

I liken your system of clones like Psycho-Pass's system of determining crime coefficient (spoilers if you haven't watch), but every system has pitfalls. The clones can help to narrow the actions of the MC by showing what doesn't work.

I hope that makes sense. At least that's how I make characters have agency, even though theoretically the character is being controlled by me and forced towards a certain plot point - but the readers don't feel that way.
That's a way to do it! I actually had something like this in the 3-chapter [V4] chapters dealing with the clones and the Prince, in which their antics to scare the Prince out of bed make the Prince think Janet's behind it, so there's that, but yeah, that definitely could work. I could actually address that in the current chapter, actually. Thanks for replying!
This is not related but why are you saying FUCK with an asterisk also why do you even have a trigger warning for it lol.

Storyfire is pretty nice.
Oh, I'm just being careful, b/c of the amount of fucks in my post.
 

RynnTheTired

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Just to offer a point of contrast: My story is actually doing a lot better on RR than it is here, in spite of not being litRPG or isekai. Not that people over here have been hating on it or anything. It just hasn't gotten much attention.

It's true that RR readers are more likely to speak up about things they don't like, though. Which can be useful for improving your writing, but it can also get a little intimidating sometimes.
 

Fox-Trot-9

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Wow, that's surprising. From my experience, my stories were doing better here than RR, but when I jumped ship from Wattpad when it closed its forums years ago, my stories on RR were doing better than on Wattpad even. But yeah, I think RR's readers have gotten a lot more opinionated, jaded even. The reason why I left Wattpad to begin with was b/c the community there was so damn toxic that it made RR seem like a paradise, and for a while it was, but the community interaction just left me feeling cold after a while. That's why I moved here. When I'm not writing, I spend most of my time here or on discord.
Just to offer a point of contrast: My story is actually doing a lot better on RR than it is here, in spite of not being litRPG or isekai. Not that people over here have been hating on it or anything. It just hasn't gotten much attention.

It's true that RR readers are more likely to speak up about things they don't like, though. Which can be useful for improving your writing, but it can also get a little intimidating sometimes.
 
D

Deleted member 54065

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Wow, that's surprising. From my experience, my stories were doing better here than RR, but when I jumped ship from Wattpad when it closed its forums years ago, my stories on RR were doing better than on Wattpad even. But yeah, I think RR's readers have gotten a lot more opinionated, jaded even. The reason why I left Wattpad to begin with was b/c the community there was so damn toxic that it made RR seem like a paradise, and for a while it was, but the community interaction just left me feeling cold after a while. That's why I moved here. When I'm not writing, I spend most of my time here or on discord.
It's always on the first few months, or weeks, or days. Or, it could be because the work isn't noticed that much yet. Hence, the toxic readers haven't commented or reviewed just yet.

In any case, give it some more time, and some more attention. And there comes the connoisseurs. Unless, of course, you hit the gold vein and it becomes instantly popular with their audience there.
 

Fox-Trot-9

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In any case, give it some more time, and some more attention. And there comes the connoisseurs. Unless, of course, you hit the gold vein and it becomes instantly popular with their audience there.
Hehehehehe, yep, definitely the connoisseurs that the spoil it. Thank God I moved before before it went that far.
 
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