Readers are degenerate, and you should be too

[mrsimple]

It does take away from your dignity, and it sucks, but that's just how the entertainment business work. Do you think musicians like doing meet and greets with sweaty dudes whose smell creates a nuclear cloud? Or that streamers enjoy having every part of their life under scrutiny? They don't, they really do not like that. But they just have to suck it up until they build enough of a fanbase and stack up enough money to not care anymore.

Money. In less than a year, I won't be needing that stuff.

 

[D.Dimitrov]

Umu, I have to say, when I was still with my temporary cover at the start, I had good popularity already. But, well, when I finally managed to find an artist and put my new cover, my views doubled for a whole week. Though afterwards my views went to normal. So, yeah, I agree about the importance of the cover for the short term, but what is important is the writing. You can be popular even without cover. I will give you example, Taboo Journal is popular enough even without its cover. So for me cover is good only for the short term. (Well, it's better to have it at the end.)

 

[mrsimple]

@TrollingTrolls You're a trash talker? When have ya ever done that?

 

[BOWIESENSEI]

It does take away from your dignity, and it sucks, but that's just how the entertainment business work. Do you think musicians like doing meet and greets with sweaty dudes whose smell creates a nuclear cloud? Or that streamers enjoy having every part of their life under scrutiny? They don't, they really do not like that. But they just have to suck it up until they build enough of a fanbase and stack up enough money to not care anymore.

I would consider it if it had any relevance to the story, but with a male MC It's rather hard to do.

 

[BOWIESENSEI]

Nah that's just good marketing.

I had a flick through some of your work and I'm genuinely curious as to why theres so much room between paragraphs?

 

[mrsimple]

So, wait... I am gathering here that the @Kazumi 's cover in question had nothing to do with the story. Is that correct?

I apologize if I've mistaken the whole thing. I really am trying hard to keep thinking clearly, but it is getting difficult to comprehend even my own writing, let alone others.

 

[Kazumi]

I would consider it if it had any relevance to the story, but with a male MC It's rather hard to do.

For stories with a male MC, I think the more noise there is in the picture the worse it is. You probably want some simple edgy pose with a slim dude in all black biting his lips being all sexy and stuff. But, I'm really not sure about the data behind it, I'll update you once I do more research on that.

 

[Kazumi]

So, wait... I am gathering here that the @Kazumi 's cover in question had nothing to do with the story. Is that correct?

I apologize if I've mistaken the whole thing. I really am trying hard to keep thinking clearly, but it is getting difficult to comprehend even my own writing, let alone others.

not really, its an ero story

 

[CupcakeNinja]

I had a flick through some of your work and I'm genuinely curious as to why theres so much room between paragraphs?

Not exactly paragraphs, are they? It's just what I've noticed the Japanese style was like. Most light novels from Japan are like that. Go and pick any and you'd see. I just copied it. The western style is great too but i kinda didn't like the walls of text. I felt the Japanese style gave an opportunity to emphasize certain lines so i used that. IBut, eh, i use different writing styles for different novels.

My most popular is more Japanese light novel while the second is more western adult romance. As for the third I'm just continuing it for someone who dropped it but i would say its a mix of Japanese isekai and Chinese cultivation? Tried to stay true to that.

Anyway i already turned the contract down. I would like to finish the first phase of my most popular work at least before i even consider that stuff. I wouldn't want old readers to have to pay to continue reading it either.


Hm. I kinda didn't get why it was so well liked. It was just meant to be incest porn. But it didn't happen cuz i took too long to set it up. People thought it was pretty good though, so...eh. It is a bit cringe at times too. But i guess people loved the chaos. Whole thing gets wild. It's a crack fic, but even more crazy. Just goes to show how far an internet troll of an MC and memes will get you

 

[D.Dimitrov]

@TrollingTrolls You're a trash talker? When have ya ever done that?

Shh, don't expose my secrets now.

 

[BOWIESENSEI]

Not exactly paragraphs, are they? It's just what I've noticed the Japanese style was like. Most light novels from Japan are like that. Go and pick any and you'd see. I just copied it. The western style is great too but i kinda didn't like the walls of text. I felt the Japanese style gave an opportunity to emphasize certain lines so i used that. IBut, eh, i use different writing styles for different novels.

My most popular is more Japanese light novel while the second is more western adult romance. As for the third I'm just continuing it for someone who dropped it but i would say its a mix of Japanese isekai and Chinese cultivation? Tried to stay true to that.

Anyway i already turned the contract down. I would like to finish the first phase of my most popular work at least before i even consider that stuff. I wouldn't want old readers to have to pay to continue reading it either.


Hm. I kinda didn't get why it was so well liked. It was just meant to be incest porn. But it didn't happen cuz i took too long to set it up. People thought it was pretty good though, so...eh. It is a bit cringe at times too. But i guess people loved the chaos. Whole thing gets wild. It's a crack fic, but even more crazy. Just goes to show how far an internet troll of an MC and memes will get you

I didn't know there was a style like that, not my cup of tea personally but keep on keeping on. It's clear you're doing well and it's working for you.

 

[Ace_Arriande]

Let's take other stories that have a cover too. Jade Veterinarian, for example, great story, solid grammar and consistently good scene composition. Eleven chapters, 1.3k views. I got double his views with four times fewer chapters. Shadow of Greed, amazing story, mad respect for the author; ten chapters, 380 views. It's not coverless stories that we're talking about here, they have their covers.

You're forgetting something. Are those stories that the general audience of SH wants to read? No matter how wonderful a story might be from a technical standpoint, it doesn't matter in the slightest if it's not something that people want to read. One of the highest-rated authors on RR with the top completed fiction (that is actually completed) has barely any followers. Why? Because it's just not what the general audience cares about. Looking at the two stories you posted, one features boys love (huge turnoff to readers despite the same readers usually loving girls love) and a dense protagonist tag (how often do you see people complain and hate on protagonists that are dense?). While neither of these things are bad, they are both tags that are going to turn off a general audience no matter how many boobs are on the cover. Furthermore, the people who have actually rated it have all given it five stars. The other story doesn't feature any of the popular tags that SH likes aside from maybe reincarnation. No romance, no lewds, no waifus, and so on. It could be an absolutely amazing story, but is it really what SH's general audience is interested in? I think it's pretty clear by now that most of SH has a pretty weeb-leaning audience. They like stories that are just like anime, manga, and light novels. The more you lean away from those, the harder it's going to be to get popular. So, of course a cover with an anime girl is going to get more views. But that's it. You've still got to prove you have a good story. The cover only catches their initial attention.

Now, if you posted a story with a cover like yours to Royal Road or Wattpad, for example, it might get some views and followers but would likely get trashed by people who hate it for having an anime girl on the cover. Meanwhile, both the stories you linked to would likely do better on a website like Royal Road. Especially the latter. Different audiences like different things. But in general, my point is that no matter how amazing your story and cover might be, none of that really matters if it's just not what the platform's general audience wants to read. This is an unavoidable issue unless you can somehow obtain a perfect balance of users who like every genre and tag equally. What the users want to read is what will rise to the top. What they don't want to read won't. Sites like these have voracious readers who will practically read every single new story ever if they have even one thing in them that they like. If you can't grab those readers at least, you're not going to grab the rest. And all those readers care about are tags/genres.

He Who Fights With Monsters is on Scribble Hub and only has 550 readers. My top story on Scribble Hub has 2400 followers. On Royal Road, He Who Fights With Monsters, using the same cover, has nearly 8000 readers. The same top story of mine on RR has 5300 followers. My stories are much more weeb-friendly, so they easily gain followers here whereas they have to fight for those followers on RR. His story easily gains followers on Royal Road but they have to be fought for here since it's not exactly a weeb story from my understanding of it.

So, what's wrong here? Well, to answer that, we gotta go back to the title of this thread. Readers are degenerate. In fact, they're so degenerate that the difference between a cover with boobs and one with not reaches 20X views. Of course, I'm in by no mean delusional enough to think that this difference would stay the same as both stories mature, but still, the point remains the same. If there is anything that can double, or triple your views in a matter of weeks, it's probably a cover change (it might not be as extreme once u reach the hundreds of thousands of views, but for those in the 10ks, definitely would).

"Sex sells" is a saying for a reason.
While yes, a cover is important and changing to a quality cover will boost views, it's not just "slap anime tiddies on your cover for 20x the views." Even if you do get those views, does it even matter if they don't follow you? More views = more potential followers, sure, but if you have to depend on anime tiddies to get followers, they're not going to last and they're almost certainly not going to be the type that you can convert into long-term fans and paid readers. A high-quality cover does wonders whether it has boobs on it or not.
But really, what's "wrong" here is that the stories you linked are niches in the SH community.

That's why you'll never get anywhere.

You heard it here, folks. Knowing how to market means you'll never get anywhere... despite marketing being one of the most important things you could ever do, and the fact that most traditional publishers now require that you know how to market your own books and won't even look at you if you can't.

I suppose it is a good strategy for exposure, but it feels like it takes away some dignity. Like whoring yourself out for views especially when the cover has no relevance to the story.

If a cover has literally zero relevance to a story, then I can agree to some degree. But if a cover decides to feature one of the story's women characters rather than a male, even if the male is a lead, then there's nothing wrong with it unless you don't like money. And if liking money takes away dignity (because I've seen others claim that this is the case when they say things like you have - not that you're saying it), then it could be argued that wanting any form of exposure/recognition takes away dignity/artistic integrity.

Also, some people just like boobs. There's zero shame in that and no dignity is being lost there. Personally, I would rather not slut-shame book covers.

Not exactly paragraphs, are they? It's just what I've noticed the Japanese style was like. Most light novels from Japan are like that. Go and pick any and you'd see. I just copied it. The western style is great too but i kinda didn't like the walls of text. I felt the Japanese style gave an opportunity to emphasize certain lines so i used that. IBut, eh, i use different writing styles for different novels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this less of a style thing and more of a formatting thing? Since they're written vertically or something like that. The simplest way to translate it into English is just to keep them in short "paragraphs." Not that there's anything wrong with that since I love it myself = P

 

[CupcakeNinja]

You're forgetting something. Are those stories that the general audience of SH wants to read? No matter how wonderful a story might be from a technical standpoint, it doesn't matter in the slightest if it's not something that people want to read. One of the highest-rated authors on RR with the top completed fiction (that is actually completed) has barely any followers. Why? Because it's just not what the general audience cares about. Looking at the two stories you posted, one features boys love (huge turnoff to readers despite the same readers usually loving girls love) and a dense protagonist tag (how often do you see people complain and hate on protagonists that are dense?). While neither of these things are bad, they are both tags that are going to turn off a general audience no matter how many boobs are on the cover. Furthermore, the people who have actually rated it have all given it five stars. The other story doesn't feature any of the popular tags that SH likes aside from maybe reincarnation. No romance, no lewds, no waifus, and so on. It could be an absolutely amazing story, but is it really what SH's general audience is interested in? I think it's pretty clear by now that most of SH has a pretty weeb-leaning audience. They like stories that are just like anime, manga, and light novels. The more you lean away from those, the harder it's going to be to get popular. So, of course a cover with an anime girl is going to get more views. But that's it. You've still got to prove you have a good story. The cover only catches their initial attention.

Now, if you posted a story with a cover like yours to Royal Road or Wattpad, for example, it might get some views and followers but would likely get trashed by people who hate it for having an anime girl on the cover. Meanwhile, both the stories you linked to would likely do better on a website like Royal Road. Especially the latter. Different audiences like different things. But in general, my point is that no matter how amazing your story and cover might be, none of that really matters if it's just not what the platform's general audience wants to read. This is an unavoidable issue unless you can somehow obtain a perfect balance of users who like every genre and tag equally. What the users want to read is what will rise to the top. What they don't want to read won't. Sites like these have voracious readers who will practically every single new story ever if they have even one thing in them that they like. If you can't grab those readers at least, you're not going to grab the rest. And all those readers care about are tags/genres.

He Who Fights With Monsters is on Scribble Hub and only has 550 readers. My top story on Scribble Hub has 2400 followers. On Royal Road, He Who Fights With Monsters, using the same cover, has nearly 8000 readers. The same top story of mine on RR has 5300 followers. My stories are much more weeb-friendly, so they easily gain followers here whereas they have to fight for those followers on RR. His story easily gains followers on Royal Road but they have to be fought for here since it's not exactly a weeb story from my understanding of it.


"Sex sells" is a saying for a reason.
While yes, a cover is important and changing to a quality cover will boost views, it's not just "slap anime tiddies on your cover for 20x the views." Even if you do get those views, does it even matter if they don't follow you? More views = more potential followers, sure, but if you have to depend on anime tiddies to get followers, they're not going to last and they're almost certainly not going to be the type that you can convert into long-term fans and paid readers. A high-quality cover does wonders whether it has boobs on it or not.
But really, what's "wrong" here is that the stories you linked are niches in the SH community.


You heard it here, folks. Knowing how to market means you'll never get anywhere... despite marketing being one of the most important things you could ever do, and the fact that most traditional publishers now require that you know how to market your own books and won't even look at you if you can't.


If a cover has literally zero relevance to a story, then I can agree to some degree. But if a cover decides to feature one of the story's women characters rather than a male, even if the male is a lead, then there's nothing wrong with it unless you don't like money. And if liking money takes away dignity (because I've seen others claim that this is the case when they say things like you have - not that you're saying it), then it could be argued that wanting any form of exposure/recognition takes away dignity/artistic integrity.

Also, some people just like boobs. There's zero shame in that and no dignity is being lost there. Personally, I would rather not slut-shame book covers.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this less of a style thing and more of a formatting thing? Since they're written vertically or something like that. The simplest way to translate it into English is just to keep them in short "paragraphs." Not that there's anything wrong with that since I love it myself = P

Eh, yeah. I did realize that but every translation, fan or professional, i know puts it down in that format and it seems fine. I think there are some pros and cons over using one format over another. It also only works with online novels anyway. Can't imagine it would be like that with physical copies. Just what I'm used to now too, i guess.

Haha. I was so used to it that i once submitted a paper to my English teacher with that format. Wasn't mad just curious. Had to redo it, needless to say.

 

[Kazumi]

"Sex sells" is a saying for a reason.
While yes, a cover is important and changing to a quality cover will boost views, it's not just "slap anime tiddies on your cover for 20x the views." Even if you do get those views, does it even matter if they don't follow you? More views = more potential followers, sure, but if you have to depend on anime tiddies to get followers, they're not going to last and they're almost certainly not going to be the type that you can convert into long-term fans and paid readers. A high-quality cover does wonders whether it has boobs on it or not.
But really, what's "wrong" here is that the stories you linked are niches in the SH community.

I can agree for the most part with this. A cover can get you a quick boost, but for longevity, you need a story that people want to read. But then again, if you check the popularity ranking by tag, you see that as you go down, the quality of the covers takes a hit, even if the number of chapters is comparable.

 

[binarysoap]

But then again, if you check the popularity ranking by tag, you see that as you go down, the quality of the covers takes a hit, even if the number of chapters is comparable.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. Lots of other reasons can explain that such as:

People who can't even bother to proofread their work or actually spend much time writing are less likely to invest any time/money into making a cover.
Once a story gets popular enough, the author has the funds/thinks it is worth the investment to commission an artist to draw a cover

 

[Wretch]

My question is what makes a book cover "professional"?

 

[BenJepheneT]

I mean, everything that needs to be said has been said. It's up to the writers themselves to see what they want from their stories. Views or quality? Only you can decide. The "slap tits on the cover" is merely just the surface. If you want views, by all means of Lucius promoting PornHub Premium in the Catholic Church in a g-string, go right ahead and put that medium rare G-cup on the cover. If you want quality, you know what you need to do.

Every writer has the right to do whatever they want, a degenerate or a writer yearning for that Holy Grail of quality. Go for it. The only thing stopping you are yourselves and procrastination. A dastardly bastard that one.

 

[FriendlyDragon]

My question is what makes a book cover "professional"?

That question has many answers and all depends on your target audience. In general, "professional" book covers are ones that have the greatest mass appeal and have the lowest chance of angering anyone. They're covers that can be put on shelves and not have people complain about it. They're eye catching but not invasive. What the art itself is, depends, like I said, on your audience. That's why in Japan you will see anime covers everywhere on light novels with images that would raise eyebrows in places like the US. Because in Japan, those covers are what teenagers are looking for. Professional covers are also based on the entire quality and look of the cover. That means not horrible quality, poorly cropped, out of place font, type of things on the cover.

 

[FriendlyDragon]

And just a passing comment on preferences, I like titties just as much as the next person, but in terms of covers, I love anime ones with characters with cool or badass designs. Either that, or something calming or comforting if you know what I mean. I tried to make my cover look smooth and easy to look at while still eye catching. I like to think I did pretty good for someone that just messed around with a few images.

 

[tigerine]

Hello, I'm the author of Jade Veterinarian.

The art that is serving as the cover to my novel is a fanart flier that a friend did to publicize my novel at their table at a con. I have been given permission by my friend to use their flier art to publicize the novel. I do not feel it is appropriate to use art without being able to pay the artist for their work. Should Jade Veterinarian be noticed, I do not want any issues of attribution or copyright to be associated with it. Finally (and perhaps most importantly) I do not want to hurt an artist's feelings by using their work without permission.

If/when I have the spare cash to commission a proper cover, I'll do so. But until then, this is the choice I have made to be respectful and ethical in sharing my work.