Reading unusual Character Names

MorgueAnna

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I know that for many Americans, reading/pronouncing Gaelic/Celtic/Irish/Scottish/Welsh names is difficult because it seems like it's not encountered frequently.
For example. I have seen many people call the Final Fantasy VII character, Cait Sith pronounced as "kate sith" rather than "ket-shee." I've a friend named Sinea ("shin-aid") and people give her a lot of grief over it. Hell, even my name is apparently difficult for people to grasp. (It's Morgana ("more-gone-ah") which feels simple to me, but that second a at the end intimates people into turning off their brains.)
When reading stories, if I don't know how something is pronounced, my internal narration does a sort of "brain mumble" that skips past it until I can look up the pronunciation. I do this a lot with names like Caoimhe, Niamh, Aoife as well as for other languages that have many consonants and sparse vowels. Irish is just an example I'm using.

Would a story with characters following these sorts of naming conventions put you off as a reader?
If a story had a glossary of characters and concepts that included pronunciations, do you think that would help alleviate the issue?
 

Ilikewaterkusa

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All characters are named Bob and Steve even the females
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Paul_Tromba

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I'm an American and I don't have much trouble pronouncing names like those. Though my mother spoke fluent German and would flip between English and German. That and I would read Celtic, Germanic, and Gaelic fairy tales and folk tales as a kid. Hell, Beowulf was one of my favorites as a kid. I do have some problems pronouncing Middle-Eastern names though.
 

Ilikewaterkusa

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I know that for many Americans, reading/pronouncing Gaelic/Celtic/Irish/Scottish/Welsh names is difficult because it seems like it's not encountered frequently.
For example. I have seen many people call the Final Fantasy VII character, Cait Sith pronounced as "kate sith" rather than "ket-shee." I've a friend named Sinea ("shin-aid") and people give her a lot of grief over it. Hell, even my name is apparently difficult for people to grasp. (It's Morgana ("more-gone-ah") which feels simple to me, but that second a at the end intimates people into turning off their brains.)
When reading stories, if I don't know how something is pronounced, my internal narration does a sort of "brain mumble" that skips past it until I can look up the pronunciation. I do this a lot with names like Caoimhe, Niamh, Aoife as well as for other languages that have many consonants and sparse vowels. Irish is just an example I'm using.

Would a story with characters following these sorts of naming conventions put you off as a reader?
If a story had a glossary of characters and concepts that included pronunciations, do you think that would help alleviate the issue?
I don't think about name pronouncations. But if you manage to incorporate the glossary and concept stuff in an appropriate manner that lets the story flow well it would be good. Don't put the glossary in the middle or beginning
I'm an American and I don't have much trouble pronouncing names like those. Though my mother spoke fluent German and would flip between English and German. That and I would read Celtic, Germanic, and Gaelic fairy tales and folk tales as a kid. Hell, Beowulf was one of my favorites as a kid. I do have some problems pronouncing Middle-Eastern names though.
Barrack Muhammad Uchiha would like to find your location
 

MorgueAnna

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You know what puts me off as a reader? When weebs use fecking Japanese names when they've never been to a Japan.

Btw, there is no such problem. No one cares about the pronunciations of names.

That does seem to be a common occurrence while also being a source of annoyance to folks who are vocal about it. Of course, on the opposite end of things you get amusing stuff like Believe Bridesmaid, Quarter Queen, and Backyard Bottomslash from that Death Note Spin off.
Or that one baseball game:


Does your brain skim over those sorts of words? I find that annoying personally. I guess for folks who don't have an internal narrator when they read, it's fine.

But no one cares, so it's a non-issue (unless you're a nobody like me I guess :sweating_profusely: lol)
I'm an American and I don't have much trouble pronouncing names like those. Though my mother spoke fluent German and would flip between English and German. That and I would read Celtic, Germanic, and Gaelic fairy tales and folk tales as a kid. Hell, Beowulf was one of my favorites as a kid. I do have some problems pronouncing Middle-Eastern names though.
German and about half of the Gaelic stuff I read is fine for me when it comes to reading. Welsh is harder for me to parse. I've noticed that some folks REALLY struggle with any name that isn't on the level of Bob or Sara. Speaking is not an issue for me, just occasionally connecting words on a page to how they're said. Probably due to reading more than speaking in my youth, lol.
I also encountered people who do the same with Japanese. The amount of people who called InuYasha "Inu-WASHA" was boggling to me as a kid. Reading acclimates us, like your Gaelic fairytales as a kid and my Spanish ones, as examples.

I don't think about name pronouncations. But if you manage to incorporate the glossary and concept stuff in an appropriate manner that lets the story flow well it would be good. Don't put the glossary in the middle or beginning
I am trying to imagine why a glossary would be put in the middle of anything and am very confused, haha. t. It would really be wild to read a book, turn a page in the middle and a non-sequitur glossary with terms you have already seen and terms you've not encountered yet staring you in the face.

I've seen Glossaries at the start or end, for easy access on physical books. My impression of web novels is that a glossary can be appended outside of the story proper, like an "about" page, though I may be wrong about that or it may depend on the hosting platform.
 
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SailusGebel

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That does seem to be a common occurrence while also being a source of annoyance to folks who are vocal about it. Of course, on the opposite end of things you get amusing stuff like Believe Bridesmaid, Quarter Queen, and Backyard Bottomslash from that Death Note Spin off.
Or that one baseball game:


Does your brain skim over those sorts of words? I find that annoying personally. I guess for folks who don't have an internal narrator when they read, it's fine.

But no one cares, so it's a non-issue (unless you're a nobody like me I guess :sweating_profusely: lol)
How many people who read novels and manga know or learn how to PROPERLY pronounce Korean, Chinese, and Japanese names? You can project your issues on a majority and even find a solution, but honestly, the majority doesn't care. They would care more about who sleeps with whom in a novel than how to pronounce that particular Nordic name. Sure, some people bothered by this, but we are talking about web\light novels, or manga. It's a type of entertainment on which you can spend 10 minutes of your time, read a chapter, and go away to do your thing. And you assume that people will be bothered enough to spend more time to look at how this or that is pronounced? Majority don't even check glossaries cause they are lazy.
 

Zirrboy

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Just pick one you like.
You'll never hear the author say it and any attempt to convey phonetic information through text depends on the recipient knowing the assumed pronunciation.
I'm positive that none of the examples you gave sound like what the words make me think they would.
 

MorgueAnna

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How many people who read novels and manga know or learn how to PROPERLY pronounce Korean, Chinese, and Japanese names? You can project your issues on a majority and even find a solution, but honestly, the majority doesn't care. They would care more about who sleeps with whom in a novel than how to pronounce that particular Nordic name. Sure, some people bothered by this, but we are talking about web\light novels, or manga. It's a type of entertainment on which you can spend 10 minutes of your time, read a chapter, and go away to do your thing. And you assume that people will be bothered enough to spend more time to look at how this or that is pronounced? Majority don't even check glossaries cause they are lazy.
I'm wary of blanket statements being touted as objective fact, but you speak with such authority on the matter that I feel obligated to apologize for wasting your time with my projections and apparently bizarre concerns. Just to double check, are you just speaking from your own experience as a "lazy", apathetic reader or are you speaking for everyone? If it's the latter I'd like sources to back that up, but don't want to trouble you in case it really does turn out that I am the singular instance of this sort of thought.
Just pick one you like.
You'll never hear the author say it and any attempt to convey phonetic information depends on the recipient knowing the assumed pronunciation.
I'm positive that none of the examples you gave sound like what the words make me think they would.
I'd never have intuited that Caoimhe is pronounced "Kee-va" but I'm glad it's apparently a non-issue for the majority of respondents. Your feedback is appreciated.
 

Zirrboy

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I'd never have intuited that Caoimhe is pronounced "Kee-va" but I'm glad it's apparently a non-issue for the majority of respondents. Your feedback is appreciated.
At this point you're just asking to be mispronounced.
I don't see the point in a glossary tho.
Stomping a latin alphabet onto things butchers the pronunciation nuances, that's why you get this kind of creative use of letters in an attempt to preserve that information.
But it only works if you know the language or dialect the pronunciation leans on, which in turn is left to guesses.

If I heard you say that name and was asked to put it to paper, I would end up far from both Caoimhe and Kee-va.
 

SailusGebel

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I'm wary of blanket statements being touted as objective fact, but you speak with such authority on the matter that I feel obligated to apologize for wasting your time with my projections and apparently bizarre concerns. Just to double check, are you just speaking from your own experience as a "lazy", apathetic reader or are you speaking for everyone? If it's the latter I'd like sources to back that up, but don't want to trouble you in case it really does turn out that I am the singular instance of this sort of thought.
First of all, I didn't want to 'attack' you or something. If I sound rude, I apologize.

Secondly, I try to talk about the majority. I do this as a reader, author, and someone who has observed this for a long time. I have no sources other than my experience and observations.

Thirdly, I think it's a mistake that I didn't make it clear. I'm concerned that you would do something that won't be worth the time investment. The number of readers bothered by this like you is minimal compared to a casual reader. You can do this, it's a neat idea, but it probably won't pay off.

Fourthly, I also do a brain "mumble," and it's not exclusive to names. I do so with words as well. Do I check pronunciations or care about them? No. But it's not because I'm lazy. It's because I understand that there is no such thing as proper or correct pronunciation.
 

MorgueAnna

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First of all, I didn't want to 'attack' you or something. If I sound rude, I apologize.

Secondly, I try to talk about the majority. I do this as a reader, author, and someone who has observed this for a long time. I have no sources other than my experience and observations.

Thirdly, I think it's a mistake that I didn't make it clear. I'm concerned that you would do something that won't be worth the time investment. The number of readers bothered by this like you is minimal compared to a casual reader. You can do this, it's a neat idea, but it probably won't pay off.

Fourthly, I also do a brain "mumble," and it's not exclusive to names. I do so with words as well. Do I check pronunciations or care about them? No. But it's not because I'm lazy. It's because I understand that there is no such thing as proper or correct pronunciation.
Ah, no worries. I'm not feeling attacked, just amused by the confidence you spoke with about things that seem largely fickle dependent on the individual. I don't have that kind of confidence anymore.
I appreciate your concern regarding wasted effort, which I tend towards at the best of times (like editing a wiki that barely gets traffic haha). Even if it would be largely ignored, getting the task done would likely lift the brain burden of having it bother me. (It's like having a tab open blaring music but you aren't sure which one lol.)
I'm not writing anything at the moment and still trying to gauge webnovels as a subculture. I appreciate your contributions to my further understanding.
 

Saileri

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Most people reading stuff just assume the pronunciation that fits in their minds without too much thinking. Often it's close to how the word would actually be spelled in their mother tongue if they are not natives. Exactly how one name in real world can have different sound variations in different countries even if the letters are actually the same. One might argue that most of those are "wrong" because there surely is some "agreed upon" origin, but who cares?

So, yeah, unless the name is completely ultra mega rare from a very unusual naming convention (and things like various name generators aren't even included in that) it doesn't really matter. As long as it's not Fwoiuoqulope, people won't even bat an eye at the name and just read it in their mind's voice and pronunciation. I for sure did for all the names you wrote in the first post. And so would the majority of people from various circles and countries that I know. And so would most of the readers that often ask me about it, coming from SH, RR, or Amazon.
 

Lorelliad

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It's not about the pronounciation for me but rather the difference between all the names. I have this problem when reading Chinese and Korean novels.

The characters' names always seem so similar that it usually takes a minute or two for me to recall any sliver of information I might remember about them.
 
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MorgueAnna

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It's not about the pronounciation for me but rather the difference between all the names. I have this problem when reading Chinese and Korean novels.

The characters' names always seem so similar that it usually takes a minute or to for me to recall any sliver of information I might remember about them.
Ah, I've encountered that. As well as situations where even if the names are different but there's like 6 people with "A" names so you mix them up.
 

JayDirex

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No!!

As an author I pay very particular attention to the names. And I keep them standardized American. (Angel, Thomas, Erica, etc)

However you can apply the same logic with foreign names by using a foreign name that's easily digestible all around.

For example Asian names such as: Kenji, Li, Mari, Miyeon. Easy to pronounce.

And I make sure the names don't sound similar for a group. (No Lisa and Elyssa.) The names would mix when read.

Lastly:

Keep the full name down to fewer syllables. Erica Kane, Kim Powers, Joshua Danz.

Digestible names.
 

Western42

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My stories are full of weird names, especially in my Nostalisk series. I've also read a few novels and stories with weird names. In my opinion, as long as there is an easy way to say them, weird names shouldn't be a problem.
 

DarkeReises

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I just butcher them in my head, but if I somehow find out the correct pronunciation of a name I try to use it. Don't actively go out searching for the correct way even if I know for a fact I'm getting it wrong.
 
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