Reincarnation into another world is a poorly done and over used cliche.

[Cauldrons]

(I posted this on royal road's forums and I've gotten some feedback with it so I'm copy/pasting it here to see what people here think.)

This is a cliche many authors on this site(and other sites) use a crutch in order for them to lazily give their main character way too much power or knowledge they shouldn't have. This is saddening to me since I think the genre could have had much more potential than it has at this point, but people think of it as a gimmick to get their story started and nothing else. So I'm making the argument that if you are using the trope to only introduce the character/make them overpowered(What most people do) then you should just skip that step altogether and just have your main character originate in the magical world and instead of them dying and meeting god and getting unlimited power for literally no reason than to move the plot along, how about you incorporate unique elements like spirits or ancient technology that gift your character with unique power instead, as I feel this would be more organic than the alternative.

People don't understand just how brilliant someone from earth being stranded on a strange magical planet full of dangerous unknowns could be, but they don't capitalize on it. More specifically I think they focus on the wrong thing. I think the survival genre would actually pair up the best with the transported to another world genre. Think about it, It's dangerous enough being stuck in the woods on earth imagine how unique and interesting you could make it if you had more to work with. Instead of the main character being stuck in quicksand they are instead trapped in the clutches of a siren and are being dragged down and must think of a way out of the situation. Instead, most authors dump their character where they either find people or civilization right away or have way too much power that survival isn't an issue. I'm not saying that civilization in these types of novels is a bad thing but most authors make... idealized civilizations. Typically the most controversial thing authors are willing to put into their story is slavery(another poorly used and underdeveloped cliche.) and little else. Most authors make cities and towns with several cliches in minds such as an adventurer's guild and the typical street thug with everyone else the main character they meet being completely trusting of the main character and all the strange quirks and ideas they bring with them. None of the worlds created by authors have history to them they don't feel lived in and worst of all they don't drag you in with immersion.

I realize that for a lot of people this is a starting point for most of them and I shouldn't expect gold in an iron mine, but I just wish someone truly competent would come along and write a story that does the genre justice. No harem stupidity and no overpowered protagonist. Just someone trying to reimagine and overused and underdeveloped genre.

 

[C.Sunlight]

While it is rare, there are stories out there that fully flesh out what you've commented about here. One of the first that comes to mind would have to be... When A Mage Revolts. The MC is literally just dropped into the body of a weak, helpless noble as he's in the process of getting kidnapped.

The antagonist isn't dumb at all (in fact, if I was in the situation described, I most likely wouldn't be able to do anything), and even the first spell he learns isn't because of the system's magical powers (it's actually pretty useless), but because he memorized what on of the antagonist's lackeys said.

It just gets better from there, but I don't want to spoil too much. The ending is a little lackluster, to be honest... But I love it anyway. The events preceding it were a pretty good twist, but the epilogue sucks...

Oh well, just know that it's pretty awesome.
♡(ӦｖӦ｡)

 

[Wulfos]

I feel personaly atacked LUL.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I don't know, but when I posted my story in RR it was attacked for using a weak, dense, doormat of an MC when what I'm trying to portray is that when an ordinary person is sent to another world, would he be immediately trusted? Of course not. A few people might, but not everyone. And if he's powerless, would he be able to stand for himself?

Again, if most were put in that situation, they wouldn't try to put up a fight even though they wanted to, especially against armed, magic-using individuals.

But no, my character is weak, dense, and a doormat. And it got rained with one-stars too.

Also, I didn't give my character a powerful set of cheat skill, no leveling system, no adventure guilds...He's supposed to survive another world using only his brains and lips. The girls around him fall in love, but with deep reasons other than being saved for the first time...

Yes, and no sex at first.

And what I got is that, it is uninteresting.

So most isekai authors are afraid to take the gamble, or yeah, just as you said, they are plain lazy.

 

[forli]

Reincarnation into another world is not something that can ever truly become an overused cliche as long as the one writing it makes an effort to come up with something new, there are simply way too many ways to do it. Just the fact that someone is reincarnated does not say anything about what kind of person the MC is, what kind of power they get, what the world they're going to is like or what they're going to do in it, you can also say the same about superhero movies since a lot of them seem to follow very similar formulas, but that's not a problem with the genre, just with the people writing them.

What I think that a lot of writers do wrong is not taking into account the strengths and weaknesses of the genre, for example, I feel like one of the greatest strengths of isekai is the fact it places the MC in the same starting position as the reader (the reader is also basically a person from Earth that is being taken to a fantasy world for as long as they're reading), that can make it easier to both make them share their thought process and introduce the world (a fish out of water MC makes exposition easier). But then a lot of writers waste that strength by doing stuff like giving the MC a very unusual personality and way of thinking that might or might not make them more interesting but makes them less relatable for the readers, which always makes me think that it would have been better to make them a native of this world, there's also all the MCs who know a lot of things about the otherworld because 'this world is based on a game I knew about' when combined with 'my personality is becoming like that of my character in the game' makes me wonder why the MC could not have been the character in the first place.

As for weaknesses, I'd say that the most obvious one is that it can be very difficult to make the start seem unique, I ended up getting a habit to skip the prologue/first chapter in every reincarnation story and only going back if I feel like actually missed something that I didn't read before in a different story (I rarely do).

But all of that is only for writers that actually make an effort to write a good story. Since this is a popular genre there's, of course, going to be many writers that include certain common tropes in their stories just because 'a reincarnation story is supposed to have this stuff' and don't bother to consider if they fit their story or how they can make them feel fresh, but that's a problem with bad writing in general, not something specific to the genre.

 

[DDTStudios]

I agree with you. I was so fed up with that trope that I decided to have my characters originate from the world the story is set in. (With the exception of one) .

 

[Saileri]

It all depends on the author? I'm currently writing 2 world switchers, although the first one is from fantasy into fantasy (like alternate realm), while 2nd one is modern into fantasy, but guess what... the mc is not having so much edge over the residents that it destroys the world. Although that's partially because he's not set on conquering it but managing a certain establishment. It all depends on how you write the character and how they develop.

Modern into fantasy isekai is overused a lot because it is easily relatable to the reader's position. Japanese culture caught on that trend and idea and love it because they can "feel" like they can imagine themselves in MC's place. And since it is so popular, naturally all sorts of people will try their heads at it, not only just to write a novel for money, but also just because they want to create their own self-insert. And not everyone is a top-tier writer.

The more something is popular the more people will try themselves at it, and naturally the more the quality drops. I personally love that whole concept and idea and it also started for me as a self-insert, but it evolved to the point where I actually scratched MC being from Earth and recreated it into a fantasy/fantasy isekai, just for the possibilities.

Anyway, it's like this with everything. Same thing why I even watch anime or read manga. I jump into the trash yard with hopes of finding a masterpiece. And that masterpiece "chance" keeps me going.

 

[Amarathia]

hm. I write most with character in-verse, but I do have one transmigration. But it was all so that it could be set up with the usual system trope of 'do this and you'll become op' just to later on show that what the MC was told was only a path towards his own destruction. It's fun to play around with and allowing transmigration also allows me to make modern jokes in the setting of another world because the MC has experienced both

I would say a lot of reincarn. stories can be pretty cliche and cheesy but it can be good depending on the author. I can pretty much tell if it's gonna be op wish fulfillment tropey from the first couple of chapters, then go from there. Sometimes just the synopsis is enough.

plus, I also understand and largely agree with your POV, but I could say the same for stories that happen all in the same world. Just because the character is there from the start doesn't mean the author won't make them an OP guy with a harem. Or just say that he was chosen by fate to be super duper OP like in every xianxia (chinese chad).

Reincarnation or no, there are just a lot of stories that only write content skin deep

 

[atgongumerki]

Concerning the knowledge: I find it strange that everything these MCs think about fantasy tends to turn out true in the world they get send to, which does not make any sense.
One example of this was when I read about someone whose first encounter with some semi-civilised creature was with something resembling a goblin, and instead, of course, the mc thought goblins raping simpletons, and they turned out raping simpletons.
Of course, instead of trying to interact cordially the first thought said mc had was: 'how do I kill the creature'.

The most jarring however is when this random earthling knows more about the world they come to than the natives!

But not all are like this.
I have found an isekai masterpiece in 'Tree of Aeons'.

On the other hand it is simple enough so beginners can try their hand at writing without having to create their own world, because Mr/Mrs Clichee delivered the world to them.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Indeed I am guilty of these crimes and I shamelessly use adventure guild and other world.

 

[HURGMCGURG]

More specifically I think they focus on the wrong thing. I think the survival genre would actually pair up the best with the transported to another world genre. Think about it, It's dangerous enough being stuck in the woods on earth imagine how unique and interesting you could make it if you had more to work with. Instead of the main character being stuck in quicksand they are instead trapped in the clutches of a siren and are being dragged down and must think of a way out of the situation.

You're not the first to think that.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/26734/eight

Anyways, I've written some good (shitty) isekai and I will tell you right now that isekai should not be considered a genre, but a commonly used plot mechanic for getting whatever kind of person the author wants into a fantasy world in the situation they desire. Is it lazy? Depends on how it's done.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

(I posted this on royal road's forums and I've gotten some feedback with it so I'm copy/pasting it here to see what people here think.)

This is a cliche many authors on this site(and other sites) use a crutch in order for them to lazily give their main character way too much power or knowledge they shouldn't have. This is saddening to me since I think the genre could have had much more potential than it has at this point, but people think of it as a gimmick to get their story started and nothing else. So I'm making the argument that if you are using the trope to only introduce the character/make them overpowered(What most people do) then you should just skip that step altogether and just have your main character originate in the magical world and instead of them dying and meeting god and getting unlimited power for literally no reason than to move the plot along, how about you incorporate unique elements like spirits or ancient technology that gift your character with unique power instead, as I feel this would be more organic than the alternative.

People don't understand just how brilliant someone from earth being stranded on a strange magical planet full of dangerous unknowns could be, but they don't capitalize on it. More specifically I think they focus on the wrong thing. I think the survival genre would actually pair up the best with the transported to another world genre. Think about it, It's dangerous enough being stuck in the woods on earth imagine how unique and interesting you could make it if you had more to work with. Instead of the main character being stuck in quicksand they are instead trapped in the clutches of a siren and are being dragged down and must think of a way out of the situation. Instead, most authors dump their character where they either find people or civilization right away or have way too much power that survival isn't an issue. I'm not saying that civilization in these types of novels is a bad thing but most authors make... idealized civilizations. Typically the most controversial thing authors are willing to put into their story is slavery(another poorly used and underdeveloped cliche.) and little else. Most authors make cities and towns with several cliches in minds such as an adventurer's guild and the typical street thug with everyone else the main character they meet being completely trusting of the main character and all the strange quirks and ideas they bring with them. None of the worlds created by authors have history to them they don't feel lived in and worst of all they don't drag you in with immersion.

I realize that for a lot of people this is a starting point for most of them and I shouldn't expect gold in an iron mine, but I just wish someone truly competent would come along and write a story that does the genre justice. No harem stupidity and no overpowered protagonist. Just someone trying to reimagine and overused and underdeveloped genre.

Yall just suck balls at using overpowered characters. You limit yourselves when you SHOULD be going wild and let them troll people with their OPness. Its the only way to really have fun with these kinda characters.

If your guy isnt making religious leaders smoke weed or summoning a giant water monster to tentacle rape and/or kill a village of mercenaries what is he even doing?

...well i just love chaos tho lol. But that's a helluva lot more entertaining than the standard routes we see.

The conqueror route is popular with these OP characters, for example. Like with Ainz-sama. We love seeing him curb stomp all the weak mortals with his OP skeletal self. Now THAT author knows how to use an OP character. We need more face-slapping, kingdom building stories where the MCs just flex their superior and overwhelming might.

EDIT; That siren stuff happens alot in western high fantast novels too.

 

[Ral]

But this is practically true to almost any tropes and cliches. Any trope and cliche can be done lazily, and guess what most authors here tend to do? Yes! They use tropes lazily.

This is not the fault of the tropes. They are just tools for the writers to use. You don't blame the tools for shoddy work. You don't blame the mop if the floor of the hotel is dirty. You don't blame the stove if the food a restaurant served you is bad. You don't blame the hammer if the repair job is lousy.

Though, you did admit in the end that it is not in the cliche and tropes. Then, I guess, I have to mention this again: Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

There would always be bad or lazy authors, most of them in fact will be, and with sites like SH or RR where quality control is pretty much absent, this is the norm. What you can do is to be selective with your consumption (or just deal with it). Seek the truly good stuff; the 10%.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Personally, I say anyone calling any genre weak/overused/boring is not someone worth listening to. NOTHING IS NEW. EVERYTHING IS OVERUSED IF YOU WANT TO BE TECHNICAL.

"Nothing is new under the sun" I like that saying. I agree with that saying. The genre itself isn't the problem, but the writers who write it. The title of this post should have been "reincarnation story writers do a poor job of it"

 

[Ral]

I don't know, but when I posted my story in RR it was attacked for using a weak, dense, doormat of an MC when what I'm trying to portray is that when an ordinary person is sent to another world, would he be immediately trusted? Of course not. A few people might, but not everyone. And if he's powerless, would he be able to stand for himself?

Again, if most were put in that situation, they wouldn't try to put up a fight even though they wanted to, especially against armed, magic-using individuals.

But no, my character is weak, dense, and a doormat. And it got rained with one-stars too.

Also, I didn't give my character a powerful set of cheat skill, no leveling system, no adventure guilds...He's supposed to survive another world using only his brains and lips. The girls around him fall in love, but with deep reasons other than being saved for the first time...

Yes, and no sex at first.

And what I got is that, it is uninteresting.

So most isekai authors are afraid to take the gamble, or yeah, just as you said, they are plain lazy.

This does sound like it would be a boring story if handled poorly. It seems to be a concept that requires great execution. I mean, it has no gimmicks whatsoever that could easily peak peoples interest. It is like talking to people about mundane stuff. You have to use your best to make it interesting. I mean, it is not that hard to get people interested with stuff like a new smartphone or covid19 because many people are inherently interested about them, but are you able to make them interested with things like Tap Water or Cardboard Box? It is not impossible but you can see how difficult it would be.

 

[JayDirex]

I don't know, but when I posted my story in RR it was attacked for using a weak, dense, doormat of an MC when what I'm trying to portray is that when an ordinary person is sent to another world, would he be immediately trusted? Of course not. A few people might, but not everyone. And if he's powerless, would he be able to stand for himself?

Again, if most were put in that situation, they wouldn't try to put up a fight even though they wanted to, especially against armed, magic-using individuals.

But no, my character is weak, dense, and a doormat. And it got rained with one-stars too.

Also, I didn't give my character a powerful set of cheat skill, no leveling system, no adventure guilds...He's supposed to survive another world using only his brains and lips. The girls around him fall in love, but with deep reasons other than being saved for the first time...

Yes, and no sex at first.

And what I got is that, it is uninteresting.

So most isekai authors are afraid to take the gamble, or yeah, just as you said, they are plain lazy.

This ain't Japan. Nobody want to read about a weak dense character with no special ability.

Readers want their isekai MC to kick ass, learn magic, start a harem *\0/*

 

[Deleted member 29316]

This ain't Japan. Nobody want to read about a weak dense character with no special ability.

Readers want their isekai MC to kick ass, learn magic, start a harem *\0/*

Well, that's the problem in itself. While it is true that it would be boring, the mere fact that someone is being heckled for trying something else is killing the genre itself.

Most isekai MCs don't grow anymore, because they are overpowered from the start. Moreover, he and the other characters don't seem to be human simply for the fact that that either they are limited by a game-like system (not that it's bad) or the girls would simply throw themselves into an overpowered MC because they were saved once.

I tried to have mine grow on the course of the story, attitude and ability-wise, as well as acquire his combat skills thru training...not some level-up thing.

But most readers wanted to quickly jump into the good parts.

I mean, well, if that's not your preferred theme, and more on the Power Fantasy type, then it's not an issue. But if a certain author tries something different and gets booed because of it, then the genre would definitely stay as it is.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

This does sound like it would be a boring story if handled poorly. It seems to be a concept that requires great execution. I mean, it has no gimmicks whatsoever that could easily peak peoples interest. It is like talking to people about mundane stuff. You have to use your best to make it interesting. I mean, it is not that hard to get people interested with stuff like a new smartphone or covid19 because many people are inherently interested about them, but are you able to make them interested with things like Tap Water or Cardboard Box? It is not impossible but you can see how difficult it would be.

It's difficult yes, but there were a few who's willing to give it a try.

So why not do it?

My point is that, don't cut a budding author on the genre just because someone doesn't like his concept. His story would evolve over time, and it won't be helpful to the genre to have a few select themes on it.

And now we're left wondering why there's no fresh ideas on isekai...

 

[Cauldrons]

Personally, I say anyone calling any genre weak/overused/boring is not someone worth listening to. NOTHING IS NEW. EVERYTHING IS OVERUSED IF YOU WANT TO BE TECHNICAL.

"Nothing is new under the sun" I like that saying. I agree with that saying. The genre itself isn't the problem, but the writers who write it. The title of this post should have been "reincarnation story writers do a poor job of it"

... that basically is my title.

 

[XianPiete]

I guess you didn't care for A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Mark Twain.