Super strength and its depiction

NotaNuffian

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Not talking about lifting heavy objects, more about how a "normal" human body is able to do things like jump and punch, but amplified to super strength.

We all seen it in anime, cartoon and live action, when a person with super strength punch/ kick/ hit something/ someone, there are shockwaves.

In actual fact, shockwaves do exist, ie sonic boom and when you play inside a pool, you can form tiny waves just by moving your body.

But air is 1000 times less dense than water, so making a big boom like All Might or Saitama that would normally requiring tons of TNT and maybe to nukes is making me creating this thread.

Tldr: got thread/ reading to talk about the actual application of super strength done by a standard human body? Also accepting for super speed.
 

Agentt

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Ah, one kinda unrealistic thing is stomping, which people do forget that its unrealistic, so we can count that.

One is the bulging of muscles, the quite tear of clothes, fibres tearing, making a scary, unnatural popping sound each time.

The crunch of gravel(I can't think of the proper word, but the sound of your feet rubbing off the ground before you spirint)

And, if your book is first person, you can add a bit glitter, due to the fact that the guy getting punched probably can't think straight, such as,

"Each punch sent a paralyzing shock through my body. I could feel my stomach churning, as if all my organs were being dissolved. There's this bad feeling. I-I just want to vomit"

There's the classic popping a vein across forehead, similes like "hitting like a truck"


And.....uhhh....dust clouds, they are the closest thing you can get to sonic boom. If your character is not in a dusty place, do some collateral damage, like him missing a punch, hitting a wall, and leaving a fist print there, or falling on a table and breaking it
There is also the room heating up while your guy goes red and struggles to break free if the ropes he has been tied with.
 

LostLibrarian

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Also accepting for super speed.
The one thing that always bugs me with super speed and normal bodies is the air. The air isn't just nothing, it has resistance. Good luck with that, when you move with super speed but a normal human body. Would be nothing different than running against a wall...

Like it's cool, when the person also has some kind of better body. But I always smile when novels introduce super speed as way to make the MC cool. "One hit could kill him, but he was so fast, that he ended up 100m away in a split-second without problems. He couldn't make any errors in his judgement, while running around the boss, knowing that even the impact of some spit was enough to kill him."

Yeah, no. If you are so weak you need super-speed, you better wear a lot of body protection and goggles :D
There's the classic popping a vein across forehead, similes like "hitting like a truck"
There's also the classic "He spit out a mouthful of blood" after a powerful exchange. Probably done 20 times a battle and of course with no further repercussions. Spitting out blood only shows how cool you are to have survived that impact :D
 

Biggest-Kusa-Out-There

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The one thing that always bugs me with super speed and normal bodies is the air. The air isn't just nothing, it has resistance. Good luck with that, when you move with super speed but a normal human body. Would be nothing different than running against a wall...

Like it's cool, when the person also has some kind of better body. But I always smile when novels introduce super speed as way to make the MC cool. "One hit could kill him, but he was so fast, that he ended up 100m away in a split-second without problems. He couldn't make any errors in his judgement, while running around the boss, knowing that even the impact of some spit was enough to kill him."

Yeah, no. If you are so weak you need super-speed, you better wear a lot of body protection and goggles :D

There's also the classic "He spit out a mouthful of blood" after a powerful exchange. Probably done 20 times a battle and of course with no further repercussions. Spitting out blood only shows how cool you are to have survived that impact :D
Doesn't super strength also mean a strong body? Since... tendonds, sinew, and stuff also get stronger? Or does superstrength not make biological sense?
 

LostLibrarian

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Doesn't super strength also mean a strong body? Since... tendonds, sinew, and stuff also get stronger? Or does superstrength not make biological sense?
I mean, the stopic was "normal" body. But yeah, it depends. If you have a really strong body on top of that, that's an easy way out. And of course, it stops making sense really fast, but that are superpowers for you, anyway. People don't look for "sense".

But a lot of novels use "super speed" as a way out to make it cool. "You are really weak, but super fast. And he is the greatest, because he can dodge all those insta-kill attacks and surprise all the watching girls".

Yeah, have fun running through rain with all your bones breaking :D


Another idea would be just the grip on the floor. Normal shoes won't survive that. So you can only run straight ahead. Or live your normal life with the weirdest shoes ever :D
 
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Like it's cool, when the person also has some kind of better body. But I always smile when novels introduce super speed as way to make the MC cool. "One hit could kill him, but he was so fast, that he ended up 100m away in a split-second without problems. He couldn't make any errors in his judgement, while running around the boss, knowing that even the impact of some spit was enough to kill him."
Another thing is how would you stop? Humans don't exactly have brakes.
Also, how would inertia work if you have a normal body? If you're running at 100m/s and decide to suddenly turn would your body get torn in half?
 

Echimera

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The one thing that always bugs me with super speed and normal bodies is the air. The air isn't just nothing, it has resistance. Good luck with that, when you move with super speed but a normal human body. Would be nothing different than running against a wall...

Like it's cool, when the person also has some kind of better body. But I always smile when novels introduce super speed as way to make the MC cool. "One hit could kill him, but he was so fast, that he ended up 100m away in a split-second without problems. He couldn't make any errors in his judgement, while running around the boss, knowing that even the impact of some spit was enough to kill him."

Yeah, no. If you are so weak you need super-speed, you better wear a lot of body protection and goggles :D

There's also the classic "He spit out a mouthful of blood" after a powerful exchange. Probably done 20 times a battle and of course with no further repercussions. Spitting out blood only shows how cool you are to have survived that impact :D
Super speed is a prime example for Required Secondary Powers.
  • control over their speed of perception
  • friction reduction in regards to the medium they are in
  • heightened friction towards the ground
  • ...
 

CupcakeNinja

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Not talking about lifting heavy objects, more about how a "normal" human body is able to do things like jump and punch, but amplified to super strength.

We all seen it in anime, cartoon and live action, when a person with super strength punch/ kick/ hit something/ someone, there are shockwaves.

In actual fact, shockwaves do exist, ie sonic boom and when you play inside a pool, you can form tiny waves just by moving your body.

But air is 1000 times less dense than water, so making a big boom like All Might or Saitama that would normally requiring tons of TNT and maybe to nukes is making me creating this thread.

Tldr: got thread/ reading to talk about the actual application of super strength done by a standard human body? Also accepting for super speed.
Your bones ouldnt be able to support said strength. They would be crushed. Also your skin wouldnt be capable of withstanding how hard you can now punch. It would tear.

And remember that everything was created with the strength of the average human in mind. So yes, breaking door handles and whatnot would be a thing.

Super speed? Try running into a bug at a fast enough speed, it would become like a bullet. Nkt to mention, your body wouldnt be able to survive at certain levels of speed either. Your organs surely not. Your flesh? Probably get torn by the air as you run.

Invisibility for example would also suck. You would go blind because no light is being reflected into your eyes.
 

LostLibrarian

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Another thing is how would you stop? Humans don't exactly have brakes.
Break your knees every time you stop.

Also, how would inertia work if you have a normal body? If you're running at 100m/s and decide to suddenly turn would your body get torn in half?
You probably would have a giant turning radius. Like a human cruise liner :blob_salute:

Super speed is a prime example for Required Secondary Powers.
True. Which just makes it funny to me, that "only super speed" is more often than not the "weakest power". "I got 10 powers for the price of one, most of them priceless, but I'm still the weakest underdog against someone, who can throw a really slow fireball."
Invisibility for example would also suck. You would go blind because no light is being reflected into your eyes.
This one is great. Never thought about that one, even though it is so simple.
 

DesiRable

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Well, technically the shockwaves thing could be vaguely possible. Looking at the strongest, fastest punchers in real life, mantis shrimp, they commonly kill their prey (and would-be predators) with the super-cavitation shockwaves generated by the speed of their punches (which achieve an acceleration of 10,400G, or 102,000 m/s2, the fastest observed for any animal IRL, and on a par with that imparted by military railguns to their projectiles), rather than directly with the punches themselves. And they achieve this, not through muscles, but with spring-actuated systems, akin to those used by locusts and fleas to leap into the air, and to the mechanics of crossbows; mechanically latching their limbs into place before using its muscles to load up energy into a spring mechanism, which can then be released/'fired' far more rapidly and powerfully than it was stored.

In air, mantis shrimps have to pull their punches, in order to avoid injuring themselves (without water resistance to cushion their punches, resulting in far more rapid deceleration); locusts, though, which employ a similar system to jump, have a shock-absorbing material in their legs to prevent self-injury from excess kinetic energy. Most depictions of 'super-strength', though, also give said super-strong character enhanced regeneration and/or durability anyway, which would make this somewhat more feasible. And even with the square-cube law in effect, a person who possessed the mantis shrimp's level of super-strength, in their punches and/or kicks, would still also be able to apply their super-strength in a bunch of other nifty ways, hardly any of which ever feature in popular depictions.

For instance, the mantis shrimp's clubs routinely generate a sustained impact force of 3-4 gigapascals without breaking. For reference, the pressure required to create synthetic diamonds is only 0.45 gigapascals. As such, a person with the same level of proportionate strength (and durability)- or indeed, anything above 1/6th of the mantis shrimp's proportionate strength and durability- would literally be able to transmute charcoal, or graphite, into diamonds just by punching it, effectively giving them a means of generating free money. And whilst super-strength shock-wave air punches would be extremely inefficient and ineffective, they'd also be able to use the force and speed of their punches to punch other things at people- such as high-caliber bullets for example, which they'd be able to propel to hypersonic velocities (with their fists, in a similar manner to how conventional guns propel bullets through funneled explosions), and use to hit things at ranges of over 100km...
 
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Akivien

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I mean, the stopic was "normal" body. But yeah, it depends. If you have a really strong body on top of that, that's an easy way out. And of course, it stops making sense really fast, but that are superpowers for you, anyway. People don't look for "sense".

But a lot of novels use "super speed" as a way out to make it cool. "You are really weak, but super fast. And he is the greatest, because he can dodge all those insta-kill attacks and surprise all the watching girls".

Yeah, have fun running through rain with all your bones breaking :D


Another idea would be just the grip on the floor. Normal shoes won't survive that. So you can only run straight ahead. Or live your normal life with the weirdest shoes ever :D
Can't you run w out shoes? Or just jump like a monkey so you don't touch where homans walk
 

LostLibrarian

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Can't you run w out shoes? Or just jump like a monkey so you don't touch where homans walk
Then your bare skin would need to have (a) enough grip (even more so for jumps), and (b) resist all that impact. So we are back to having a strong super body to allow super speed...
 

BenJepheneT

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Not talking about lifting heavy objects, more about how a "normal" human body is able to do things like jump and punch, but amplified to super strength.

We all seen it in anime, cartoon and live action, when a person with super strength punch/ kick/ hit something/ someone, there are shockwaves.

In actual fact, shockwaves do exist, ie sonic boom and when you play inside a pool, you can form tiny waves just by moving your body.

But air is 1000 times less dense than water, so making a big boom like All Might or Saitama that would normally requiring tons of TNT and maybe to nukes is making me creating this thread.

Tldr: got thread/ reading to talk about the actual application of super strength done by a standard human body? Also accepting for super speed.
I've done some research on how I can justify super strength/super speed/super-anything-tbh and I find that the trade-offs and physical prices for all these traits to be so steep that the only way for any real world application to be put onto them is to either change the property of physics in the world or just straight-up give your character super everything.

Super speed? Might as well give him super stamina to maintain it. Friction? Fuck it, he's got super strength now, to cope with it. Can his senses even keep up? Fuck this, super sight/smell/hearing/sensing. Want him to avoid running straight off a fucking cliff? Fuck this, super brain for super decision making. His clothes? Either give him super clothes or have him stay naked. Spitting blood is out of the question. He's so powerful that the only way his blood can flow through his body is if they're as thick as mercury. His veins are also made of thin tungsten now. And if he DOES spit blood he can actually kill someone with it, etc. etc. etc.

You get the picture.

At this point, IF you're crafting a character with Super anything, you've got two options: make him a jack of all trades super, or cover all your bases when making said super character.

Or don't. When people think of the Flash they think about Barry Allen and not the laws of friction he constantly obliterates on a crime fighting daily basis.
 

CupcakeNinja

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I've done some research on how I can justify super strength/super speed/super-anything-tbh and I find that the trade-offs and physical prices for all these traits to be so steep that the only way for any real world application to be put onto them is to either change the property of physics in the world or just straight-up give your character super everything.

Super speed? Might as well give him super stamina to maintain it. Friction? Fuck it, he's got super strength now, to cope with it. Can his senses even keep up? Fuck this, super sight/smell/hearing/sensing. Want him to avoid running straight off a fucking cliff? Fuck this, super brain for super decision making. His clothes? Either give him super clothes or have him stay naked. Spitting blood is out of the question. He's so powerful that the only way his blood can flow through his body is if they're as thick as mercury. His veins are also made of thin tungsten now. And if he DOES spit blood he can actually kill someone with it, etc. etc. etc.

You get the picture.

At this point, IF you're crafting a character with Super anything, you've got two options: make him a jack of all trades super, or cover all your bases when making said super character.

Or don't. When people think of the Flash they think about Barry Allen and not the laws of friction he constantly obliterates on a crime fighting daily basis.
You basically need a highly durable, highly efficient body to use super anything. Alongside sufficient stamina to support it. Otherwise you wont survive your own powers.

For example, what If you can control fire, but dont have a fire resistant body? You burn.

I think my hero academia addressed something like that too with one of its villains.
 

NotaNuffian

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If anyone is still reading this thread. Apologies for the misquotation that resulted in tons of misunderstanding, I blame my past self who can no longer rebutt.

When I mean normal, I mean normal "with four limbs (head is not a limb in this case), ten fingers and ten toes, a torso and a head with neck" normal.

Think Superman then, or Goku, or a proper person with a human body but capable of withstanding the super strength. When you blow hard and fast, the air burns not freeze, likewise when you kick or punch, either the object you hit has the same durability or stronger, you will impale the thing, not knock it far. This is often handwave in works, like in xianxia and their random ass "forces" like hidden force or crap.

I know I can cup my hand and unclog the sink, but the notion of "hardened air" always baffle me, isn't that wind? Air does not clump together like a snowball to be hurled onto far away people.

@Agentt @LostLibrarian @CupcakeNinja @greyblob @Biggest-Kusa-Out-There @BenJepheneT @K5Rakitan @Akivien @DesiRable @Echimera
 
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Air does not clump together like a snowball to be hurled onto far away people.
Well, it does and it can, though not anywhere near as good as water since its surface tension is much much lower.

Try imagining this:
You're underwater and you clump the water together to make a snowball. Would you have one? No, because it's the same medium.
Now add some mercury (denser fluid) into the water and try doing the same. You'll have a mercury snowball.

If things get too confusing just imagine air as if it were water and go from there.
 

NotaNuffian

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Well, it does and it can, though not anywhere near as good as water since its surface tension is much much lower.

Try imagining this:
You're underwater and you clump the water together to make a snowball. Would you have one? No, because it's the same medium.
Now add some mercury (denser fluid) into the water and try doing the same. You'll have a mercury snowball.

If things get too confusing just imagine air as if it were water and go from there.
Isn't air just a bunch of free moving molecules? Doesn't the moment I release the thing it will start to disintegrate?
Hold the hand out of a driving car.
Now imagine that Force working on your entire body.
But times 100...

With enough speed that is like running against a wall...
Then sonic boom. Yup I get that, just like how Sora fucked wirh Ikki during their last fight in Air Gear, where he ran just slightly under mach 1, stops in front of Ikki and the wall of air continues to smack him.

"Supercritical air that is like liquid" they say when they form the air wall, air blade, air hammer. How does the principle even apply?
 

TheTrinary

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No one has mentioned the recoil. You throw a punch that can split a mountain in two, your scrawny hundred pound something ass is getting sent flying back
 
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