The YA epidemic...

[LostinMovement]

I need to get this off of my chest because if I don't, I might explode or smthg.

So, few hours ago I was browsing Inkitt and I noticed a trend among the most viewed novels on their hot list. I will give you some of the tittle just so you can get an idea : Falling for the Alpha, Rejected by the Alpha, Fever Claim, the Prince's True Mate, Made for my Alpha....and yeah, I guess you get the general premise.

I moved to Wattpad, and you know, My Naughty Boss, Submitting to the Alpha, Tutoring the Bad Boy and of course the abominations that are original Harry Styles and Riverdale fanfics. I won't speak about the abundance of Stranger Things x reader fics because that's just sexualizing kids.

Is this truly what sells today ? Is this what people, mainly women, love to read ? Toxic, controlling, emotionally abusive and angry male leads ? Why ? just...why? And then when you realize that some of these works are being adapted to the big silver screen like its nothing, for eg the Fifty Shade of Mediocrity series and this upcoming monstrosity called After ( originally a HARRY STYLES fic)

WHY ?

Am I not normal for being a female young adult and not liking any of this ? This trend honestly makes sick to my stomach. The bullshit they are brainwashing young girls with through these diseased so-called 'romance novels'. Just..arrrghhh. I'm gonna lay down a bit now. Thanks for hearing out my random rant.

 

[NiQuinn]

Falling for the Alpha, Rejected by the Alpha, Fever Claim, the Prince's True Mate, Made for my Alpha

Sounds like Wattpad all over again. It would be great to filter out stories like that from ever showing up here. What I mean especially is those fanfic stories about famous people. Frankly, it's disgusting. I'm sorry to be blunt but it's something that I just can't respect AT ALL. I hope it never finds footing here. Heck, I hope it never even has the chance to be posted.

 

[Owl]

I dont know why, either, but yes it's an epidemic.

 

[LostinMovement]

Sounds like Wattpad all over again. It would be great to filter out stories like that from ever showing up here. What I mean especially is those fanfic stories about famous people. Frankly, it's disgusting. I'm sorry to be blunt but it's something that I just can't respect AT ALL. I hope it never finds footing here. Heck, I hope it never even has the chance to be posted.

It's quite disturbing actually. Writing fanfics about fictional characters is okay but actual real people ? that's when it becomes weird. Imagine someone out there writing a fanfic about you having sex with them ? The thought of it alone would make you hide under your bed and never come out.

 

[LostinMovement]

I dont know why, either, but yes it's an epidemic.

I just don't understand the appeal. Like...what's so satisfying about such abusive narratives ? why are they trending to begin with ?
Feminism fought a long way and definitely not for this.

 

[NiQuinn]

Also, they're killing the YA genre.

 

[maharlika]

everytime i see those kind of books i'm just ??? ew. at first, i thought it was because i'm 'gay and i don't understand' (quoting a friend of mine), but loaddddds of straight people think this way too. so, why do these books still exist, when there are probably millions of other good books to replace them???

 

[PrincessFelicie]

this is something I've noticed as a queer af lady, but there really is a fetishization of/constant excuse making for abusive relationships by cis straight women, both in real life and in fictional stories (and I think that's the nature of the problem this thread tries to talk about). However, it's not a new thing. The exact appearance of the abuse has changed over the decades, centuries even, of writing, but a new phenomena it is not.

The idea that it's on the girlfriend/wife to "fix" their prone to anger male SO, that an abusive (or at best passive) man just needs a little TLC and they'll become the sweetheart of their dreams, that their ultimate goal as women is to turn men into good people (when they really ought to already be good people in the first place, and that if they're not it's on them to fix themselves), is severely anchored in western culture (can't speak of other cultures because I don't know them well enough). We can't fix centuries worth of patriarchal trauma in just a few years of modern feminism, especially with constant pushback. But we're making a dent in it year by year at least.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

this is something I've noticed as a queer af lady, but there really is a fetishization of/constant excuse making for abusive relationships by cis straight women, both in real life and in fictional stories (and I think that's the nature of the problem this thread tries to talk about). However, it's not a new thing. The exact appearance of the abuse has changed over the decades, centuries even, of writing, but a new phenomena it is not.

The idea that it's on the girlfriend/wife to "fix" their prone to anger male SO, that an abusive (or at best passive) man just needs a little TLC and they'll become the sweetheart of their dreams, that their ultimate goal as women is to turn men into good people (when they really ought to already be good people in the first place, and that if they're not it's on them to fix themselves), is severely anchored in western culture. We can't fix centuries worth of patriarchal trauma in just a few years of modern feminism, especially with constant pushback. But we're making a dent in it year by year at least.

Actin like its more of a western thing. Nah fam. Its wayyyy common in asian stories. In fact its even pretty tame in western culture. In western stories, yeah, theres stuff about bitchy "alpha" fuck boi type of guys who are assholes at first....and who for some reason feel like an unbearable attraction to the female lead...

But at least they aren't as abusive as the dudes from chinese works. And in fact im pretty sure its been popular in asian countries for a lot longer too.

Lets be real here for a second: a lot of women just got a thing for "bad boys"--i fucking hate even saying those cringe terms--and yes its a fetish but i think its wrong to say its rooted in any particular culture. More COMMON in patriarchal societies im sure but not at all exclusive to them.

Its not something we gotta " fix" and you know what? It wont even be fixed with fucking feminism. Because while i will admit there are many forms of feminism, the one today's generation use is toxic as hell. Its not about equality anymore rather than just man bashing and thats just not what it was supposed to do. It wont help anything as it stands. Its just going to cause more clashes if anything. The good feminists who arent massive willfully ignorant cunts just dont get a loud enough voice to seperate them from the idiocy of their toxic counterparts.

And no matter if it IS just something born of frustration from a patriarchal society, i say so fucking what? Let people have their goddamn fetishes. Its obviously popular. I dont got anything against it.

Long as the story itself is decent.

It's quite disturbing actually. Writing fanfics about fictional characters is okay but actual real people ? that's when it becomes weird. Imagine someone out there writing a fanfic about you having sex with them ? The thought of it alone would make you hide under your bed and never come out.

....whats the difference tho? Its all fiction. Personally i couldn't give a single flying fuck if someone wrote stuff about me having sex with whoever in some story.

Like i said. Let people have their fetishes.

Even stranger things fanfics. Not like thats new as a concept. Hell IM a lolicon. I'll write stories sexualising lolies or shotas. Though for that i prefer milfs and i normally wont write sex scenes with a loli since tho im a lolicon i like busty breasts and lolis don't got that. But i could and would with clear conscious if the mood took me to write that sorta ero. Just normally doesnt.

But anyway dont mean imma go out and jerk off to child porn IRL or wanna fuck a child. 3D children can go to hell they annoying as fuck.

But in FICTION? They cute. And cute can be lewded. And there isnt anything wrong with that so long as it STAYS in fiction.

I feel anyone who calls it disgusting just dont got a very clear line between fiction and reality.

The brainwashing comment? I dunno. People will like what they like. If they dont like the concept they just wont read it. They arent being FORCED to read that shit in any way

Its only so common cuz its very well liked to begin with. Its a fad. It'll pass. It'll be something else in the future. Remember vampire fad? Was everywhere.

But yeah. Dont like that stuff? Dont be a lazy cunt and dig for stuff you DO like.

I cant condome kink shaming. No matter how sick the kink, as long as its CONTAINED IN FICTION and DOESNT PHYSICALLY HURT YOU, well, what is the goddamn problem?

Dont get me wrong. I aint saying shut up. Feel free to speak your mind bro.

Again, all im saying is let people have their fetishes/kinks.

....a way to filter out all these stories from the home page of the website would be nice tho not gonna lie.

 

[augustwrites]

It does seem to be a trend. It's always been around, but really seemed to blow up around the Twilight novels. I think the unfortunate thing is that people confuse their fantasies with reality. It's perfectly fine to read a story or fantasize about a super hot controlling alpha billionaire, but it's not good when you start taking those expectations to reality. It's not a good thing for guys either. 99% of males aren't 6'3" billionaires with 8 packs.

But I also think it's fine for people to have their fantasies as long as they realize they are fantasies. Men also have their stereotypical fantasies, like the action hero trope or harems. But you don't actually want to be Keanu Reeves being chased after by hundreds of bad guys or have eight sex kitten wives desperate for your attention 24/7--that would be a nightmare.

 

[Kldran]

There is actually a very big problem with it: There are too many people who have no idea what a healthy relationship looks like, and having their fantasy fulfillment fiction filled with horrible relationships presented as healthy ones, just further aggravates the problem of people having no idea what a healthy relationship looks like.

 

[AliceShiki]

I don't think this is even a YA exclusive phenomenon tbh, like... Ever saw the titles/covers of most yaoi mangas? It's filled with the same kind of stuff you're describing here.

It's a fetish that seems to be pretty widespread... And that's okay. I mean, people have their fetishes after all~

... Not really my kind of thing though, I mean, sure I do have my own sexual fetishes and stuff, but I only care for those when I'm specifically looking to read some R-18 work when I'm feeling in the mood for it, the rest of the time I don't go after fetish-heavy stories... But that's just me, each person reads what they like to read.

Overall, it's a weird thingy and can be kinda bothersome... But we at least have the Release Filtering over here to filter out any genres we dislike~

 

[Ace_Arriande]

I've got to agree with Cupcake, at least in regard to the whole "let people have their fetish" thing. I'm personally pretty confident that most people who enjoy these works are more than capable of separating reality from fiction. The people who can't separate reality from fiction - well, you're going to have to protect them from a whole lot more than a couple of kinky fictions. The only women I've known who are into the sort of stories mentioned have all been very independent women who would never take even a single ounce of the bullshit from men that happens in these stories while self-identifying as feminists, yet they love the stories anyways. It's just a fantasy. And since 50 Shades was also used as an example, despite the outrage from some of the BDSM community in regard to it, almost all the women I've known into the series (yes, there's a lot of them - the series being popular isn't just a meme), they all thoroughly understand the "safe, sane, and consensual" aspect of BDSM. They knew that the series misrepresented what a healthy relationship was like. They still enjoyed it but would never partake in anything like what was portrayed in the series nor encourage others to.

And in regards to feminism not having fought for this, it's like saying that women who are into being submissive (in a BDSM context, not an "always listen to a man 24/7" context) are going against what feminism has fought for. It's entirely possible to be both a feminist and a submissive.

Heck, one of my best friends, who would probably be called an "SJW" by most people's standards on the internet and is always fighting for progressive causes, attending rallies, etc, is into some of the most screwed up fetishes that there are. I'm talking fetishes that most people here probably don't even know exist, and they are extremely violent. Yet, she's one of the most progressive people I know and in a happy, healthy relationship. She understands that the kinks she is into are problematic and toxic, but she also understands that fiction is fiction and that it's possible to write and share fictional fetishes without wanting to encourage it in reality.

There's also the fact that normal, healthy relationships are, you know, normal and "boring" to many readers. Now, I know better than most that there is definitely a market for healthy, respectful relationships. I get into mini debates with people over on RR all the time that there is nothing wrong with normal, healthy relationships and that there is a market for them seeing as how most of my money comes from my series that promote wholesome, happy, consensual relationships. I'm a huge fan of safe, sane, and consensual on top of wholesome and healthy. I don't like drama, I don't like toxicity - I just like to see cute couples being cute and happy together. It's what I write with the exception of one series. However, it's this stuff being "normal" that makes people less interested in it. People come to fiction for what they can't have in real life. The guy going around slaying dragons is more interesting than the guy who has to work a 9-5 office job to the average reader. In the same way, the "alpha" "bad boy" who needs "saved/fixed" by the good girl who people consider plain but is actually beautiful when she takes her glasses off is more interesting than the girl who meets some guy on Tinder and gets married. Personally, I prefer the story with the girl who meets some random guy off of tinder and they do happy cute things together, but it's very easy to understand why most would prefer the former.

Look at how many stories have violence and murder in them. Look at how many stories follow around some cool, strong, confident MC going around killing monsters, sometimes other people, is always in danger, etc. Authors are not encouraging people to go out and live lives full of danger when they write this, and the vast majority of readers would not want to genuinely live a life where they could be killed at any moment despite these sorts of books being insanely popular. So, like usual, it seems pretty unfair to me to target some specific kinks if we're not going to also target all of the fictions that feature (very often excessive and unnecessary) violence. And if we're going to target those to be fair, we might as well target everything that could be considered detrimental to public morals.

In closing: safe, sane, and consensual is the best. Some people like toxic kinks in fiction and that's okay as long as they are not bringing these kinks to real life (outside of consensual roleplay). There is nothing wrong with the people who write these stories either as long as they are not encouraging people to do anything for real. Many people, myself included, have immoral fetishes in regard to fiction that we find utterly repulsive in reality and would never even think about trying it out for real nor encouraging others to.

And just on a side note, this isn't a YA thing. The genre at fault is (erotic) romance. YA is stuff like Hunger Games, Divergent, Harry Potter, and so on. Just because something is posted on a site where young adults are the primary demographic does not make it a YA fiction.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Look, it's all simple, really. There's just an abundance of women who like Harrison Fords stalking them in fictional works, just as there's a fuck ton of single ladies who fantasizes being tied up by Ewan McGregors.

It's the same thing for y'all who like BL, GL or whatever L you're into lately. It's just that there's more of them compared to you.

Plus, I'mma take a page from Ace and Cupcake; let em' have it. Getting gouged, tied up, played like a fool; as long as it stays fiction and the real world stays intact let em' have their fun.

This might be a controversial take but it's the same thing with loli porn. If it ain't harming, why care? Just as video games don't cause violence, YA won't cause any 'patriarchal oppression' or whatever buzzwords gets bent over these days on Twitter. Just let em' have their fun and as the saying goes, "stay in our own lanes".

 

[Moonpearl]

From what I've observed from the people around me (which may be wrong), those are popular with people who don't always have the best grasp of healthy relationships. It's usually young girls who haven't wised up to the world yet, middle aged ladies stuck in weirdly unhappy marriages, women who straight up believe that traditional gender roles are god and that their boyfriend's red flags are ~romantic~...

Things labelled "YA" are usually read and enjoyed the most by young teenagers instead of real young adults, so...

That said, I do enjoy the occasional fiction with unhealthy relationships, so long as the writers, readers, and just about everything involved in it can acknowledge that it's unhealthy and only for fantasy. Those tend to be well-written, though, and these tend to be dog crap.

 

[Kldran]

It's not a matter of separating reality from fiction. It's a matter of people HAVING NO EXAMPLES AT ALL. If they don't know anyone with a healthy relationship (and believe me, there's tons of people who don't know anyone in a healthy relationship) and they never see it in fiction, then it doesn't matter how good or not they are at telling the difference between reality and fiction. Instead of thinking "those people are so mean and abusive, I wouldn't want that in real life" they'll be thinking "I wish my boyfriend was that loving" and see the similarity in abusiveness as totally normal. There are a ton of women in abusive relationships and they aren't all idiots. Just ignorant because no one ever showed them what a good relationship looks like.

And yes, it's freaking everywhere, and that's the entire problem. Just like a lack of representation for minorities, there's a severe lack of role models for healthy relationships.

 

[thorbjorn42gbf]

Wait a second, none of these titles indicates that it is YA in any way, are you confusing the Romance genre with the YA marketing category? Not even standard romance this stuff generally fall pretty hard in the erotic romance genre, and that's the readers its written to.

YA is a pretty broad genre written towards a demographic thats around 15-19 with a focus on exploring the elements of growing up, leaving home and generally becoming adult (Other themes is awakening sexuality, though generally dealt with a light touch and struggling with not fitting in). This is mostly inter spaced with some action and hero stuff because its also sells the general idea of you actually could be special and you just don't know it yet. (Basically the same ideas sold by the farmboy trope)

What you described is at best new adults which deals with a lot of the same things but generally allow a larger degree of graphical sexual content. But in reality its probably just erotic romance which have been around for ages, now its just merged a bit with the whole YA trope of vampires and werewolves because they share a demographic (The largest market for YA being women from 20 to 35 ish and the largest market for erotic romance being adult women in general).

 

[Kalesterine]

I agree with you.

I was reading a story that the villain tried to rape the female lead and everyone was defending him because he was so young. Apparently rape is alright when you're young.

So many kidnapping stories are popular too. And the readers are bashing the female lead for trying to get away??? Not everyone has Stockholm syndrome man.

I'm telling you, these stories, they're messing up the minds of young people.

 

[LostinMovement]

I cant condome kink shaming. No matter how sick the kink, as long as its CONTAINED IN FICTION and DOESNT PHYSICALLY HURT YOU, well, what is the goddamn problem?

Dont get me wrong. I aint saying shut up. Feel free to speak your mind bro.

Again, all im saying is let people have their fetishes/kinks.

lol I didn't mean for people to take this too personally. I'm not kink shaming people for reading those. What I'm shaming is the fetishization of abuse, and by 'abuse', I don't mean consensual and sane BDSM. I grew up with an emotionally abusive parent and he used to package his anger and emotional violence towards me as 'love' and 'care'. You can say this whole thing hits too close to home and that's why I seem 'antagonistic'. To each his own and I never interfered with what people around me love to read, no matter how out of the box they can be. To be honest, I don't care if you like shotas, Lolis, ponies or whatever floats your boat.

But this whole trend is getting out of hand and this is not about separating fiction from reality anymore. Teen girls now see this things on their phones, at the theater and at bookstores as if all of this is ought to be normalized. Unhealthy shit like this becomes the example because they don't know what a good example is. Kids are vulnerable, impressionable things. I'm sorry if I seem too conservative or old-fashioned to you but I don't think adults and teen kids have the same level of self-awareness and differentiation. You know that fiction is fiction and reality is reality but that doesn't mean it's the same for them.

 

[Arexio]

Oh man this thread blew up. Don't mind me, I'm just here for the show.

Interesting points being given.