Training to be a better writer.

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,897
Points
153
Yesterday, I attempted to post a fairly in-depth guide to detail my own training process that allowed me to become a good writer. I have never thought myself a bad writer. Well, not any time in the past 5 years at least. However, when I recently jumped onto the scene here and became the writer of the lowest chapter volume novel to make it onto the top 10 list of this site from what I can tell, (EDIT: Never mind, "concealing abilities" literally dethroned me in this claim the very next day after posting this.) I realized my practice method which I have applied over the course of 8 years may really have something to it that's worth sharing.

Unfortunately, this forum has a 20K character limit, and since I REALLY went in-depth with writing up my practice method, it got up to 3.8K words, which easily exceeded 20K characters by I don't even know how much.

My immediate instinct was to try and put it in a word document and attach that as a file. This site does not accept word documents as linkable files, so I just about gave up. However, now since I have slept on it I realized the obvious solution is to just post it to the stories section and link that here. So, here it is.

Jemini's guide to better writing
 
Last edited:

birdyful

New member
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
2
Points
3
Thank you very much! :D Be safely assured that it is very much appreciated.
 

XianPiete

Bad Fiction Author
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
154
Points
83
When people ask me for writing tips I usually just say; Read, observe and write. Reading is what gives us all the desire to write in the first place. It was reading that gave us the love of the craft, never stop. Observation of those around you will give you the knowledge to portray realistic characters and believable events. Constant writing will give you the muscle memory to get an idea out of your brain before it flies away.

I thought your guide was well thought out, I personally don't use all of your techniques, but a new writer should find a lot of what you wrote very useful. You might wish to go back through it and do a little editing, some writers might choose to ignore the wisdom in your guide and instead pick apart the grammatical errors and bad formatting.
 

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,897
Points
153
When people ask me for writing tips I usually just say; Read, observe and write. Reading is what gives us all the desire to write in the first place. It was reading that gave us the love of the craft, never stop. Observation of those around you will give you the knowledge to portray realistic characters and believable events. Constant writing will give you the muscle memory to get an idea out of your brain before it flies away.

I thought your guide was well thought out, I personally don't use all of your techniques, but a new writer should find a lot of what you wrote very useful. You might wish to go back through it and do a little editing, some writers might choose to ignore the wisdom in your guide and instead pick apart the grammatical errors and bad formatting.

Yeah, especially since having such errors demonstraits that I'm not following the very 1st recommendation on the list. I'll have to do that when I have the time. (Actually, I have very frequently found grammar and formatting are somehow MUCH harder to keep accurate in non-fiction than in fiction. Also, since most of my practice is in fiction, I really do make errors a lot more frequently when I'm doing non-fiction writing like this.)
 

Shaiyamine

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
57
Points
58
Nice tips! I really do follow the 1st one in my recent writings.

Seeing you share some advice I wanna share a tip that might be helpfull and one that I am going through currently. I hope you dont mind :)

The tip is to not fear rewriting your work from the ground up. (Yes I mean rewrite, trash your original document and write from the start kind of rewrite.) I know this takes a lot of effort and time but hear me out.

My writing style is one that starts from a small idea then I write as I go. Its not good in the sense that details can slip you easily and the sense of stability isnt that good in the long run. So as I write, I list down important plot points and things I want to stay in the story.

Writing as you go puts you through situations like realizing that your story has been inconsistent at certain points, or at other points your words are a bit fumbly, and maybe some other points you werent able to balance well with dialogue and description or showing and telling. It can also end with you having inconsistent characterization and such other things. This is because the world building is far from complete or because I didnt think the idea through and have no way to execute it.

Im usually afraid to rewrite my own work because at the point it needs a rewrite I would have gone in at around 10k+ words but rewriting helps a lot. Since you built your world accordingly, it is more stable since along the way you've encountered things that seem important and you havent placed it into the story or things that aren't important and you placed into the story.

You can also fix your previous grammar errors and make some fixes to the plot to make it flow more smoothly. Aside from this, those portions of the story which don't fit in no matter how much editing you do; can be replaced, rewritten, adjusted, or even taken completely out of the entire manuscript.

Rewriting takes a ton of effort but it helps a lot in terms of practice, stability in plot, and overall quality of work. I got way better at writing just because I went back to my old works and have rewritten a few.

P.S. do mind that you dont need to erase the first draft of your work (a.k.a. the version before you've rewritten the thing) its actually really fun to see the different versions of the same work. You get to see how much better you are over the course of time.

P.P.S. dont try to find my works online hahaha you'll only get my older ones :P the recent works arent posted due to them being unfinished like story-wise unfinished. I dont want to leave readers hanging after all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ars

DaoFox

『Silkmaid』『Queen Sylvia Glasscrest of Arya』
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
99
Points
58
Hmm, I will hold back from clicking the link and reading, same for the post above me, I have a personal preference to only take advice from specific authors who I hold a great deal of admiration and respect for that have achieved success, mostly published names with a few web-novelists.

There is nothing wrong with seeking out or providing advice. The problem is when you take it from just about anyone regardless of its actual value, especially if it then conflicts with advice you were previously given. I am not discounting the effort you have put in or your ability to write something that can grab some attention, It's just that there is a certain correlation that occurs between "those who can write" and "those who can teach others to write" and it's mostly inversely negative. evn most professionals refrain from advising people in specific "methods" or "practices" to achieve success.

as such I will refrain from giving my own advice which could prove either useless, harmful or both.
 

Scribbler

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
290
Points
103
Loved the read. It's always nice to hear the experiences of experienced writers.
 

sage61

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
49
Points
58
I've read the book. It's an interesting theory to look on. I tend to stumble a lot at beginning a story so I would often refer to books to see how they start a story. Thanks for sharing your tips on writing.
 

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,897
Points
153
Hmm, I will hold back from clicking the link and reading, same for the post above me, I have a personal preference to only take advice from specific authors who I hold a great deal of admiration and respect for that have achieved success, mostly published names with a few web-novelists.

There is nothing wrong with seeking out or providing advice. The problem is when you take it from just about anyone regardless of its actual value, especially if it then conflicts with advice you were previously given. I am not discounting the effort you have put in or your ability to write something that can grab some attention, It's just that there is a certain correlation that occurs between "those who can write" and "those who can teach others to write" and it's mostly inversely negative. evn most professionals refrain from advising people in specific "methods" or "practices" to achieve success.

as such I will refrain from giving my own advice which could prove either useless, harmful or both.

I know this is a little delayed to respond to this, but...

I suppose this is a respectable position for someone to take to an extent, however it seems like this comment was actually you attempting to bait me to defend my credentials or something of the sort and a rather rude thing to come in with. Why come in and say "I only take advice from certain select authors" without even looking into what's being offered to see whether or not it seems like good advice? It is a rather contemptuous remark on every level.

As for the one actual decent point you made in this post, that there seems to be something of an inverse between those who can write well and those who can teach well, this only applies to untrained writers. Those among the untrained group who can write well are those who just happen to have some kind of talent. That talent will not take any of them very far.

In my case, I am not a talented author, I am someone who brought themselves from a C- English literature student to writing a series here that, as I mentioned, is even hitting the top 10 on occasion, over the course of 8 years and I felt I would like to share the methods I used over those 8 years so someone else could take a look. I can gurantee, if you follow the methods I laid out there and put in the hard work, this can turn absolutely anyone into a great writer. Just... it's not going to be easy. Not by a long shot. And you WILL have to put in the hard work yourself. The guide just gives you some direction so you won't have to fumble around in the dark for 8 years like I did and maybe you can get yourself to my level or even surpass me in the space of 4 years with this guide.

Key point, it is not a list of writing tips. It does not tell you how to write. It is a guide that tells you how to teach yourself how to write, and how to search for better writing tips and methods of improvement. I really don't know why I'm trying to convince anyone though. By the time anyone has gotten down this far, they have either already looked at the link or they are a contemptuous sad individual like yourself.

(Ok, that's not entirely fair. Maybe you're just a lurker. It's only the contemptuous individuals who would make a critical comment without having read the link.)
 

DaoFox

『Silkmaid』『Queen Sylvia Glasscrest of Arya』
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
99
Points
58
I don't bait, I post my objective thoughts based on the facts I have personally looked up. Your reaction to this is taking my comment far more personally than is normal, rather than me being a "sad contemptuous individual", the behaviour of which you are in fact displaying with such a statement towards myself.

no offence (and I say this knowing full well you will automatically assume the opposite), but you are still just an amateur teaching other amateurs. A so called "blind man leading the blind".

Your grades in school do not correlate to your ability as a writer in anyway, this is proven by countless studies, think-tanks, and history. Just as being great at maths does not have any connection to being great with the handling or management of money.

I myself got a C Grade in my English classes, this was after my education board decided to take the results of everyone in our year group and drop us all uniformly by an entire grade, otherwise I could have scored higher. My point in saying this is that I excel in the grammatical and literary side of things, knowing how to properly use nouns, adjectives etc despite being unable to think of examples for each on the spot.

I don't post much because I have too strict a standard for my stuff in my own opinion and mostly assist others off-site with editing and proofing.

If you are going to quote me, then do so directly. because "I have a personal preference to only take advice from specific authors who I hold a great deal of admiration and respect for that have achieved success" does not equate to "I only take advice from certain select authors". I have a yard-stick I use to choose which advice I take seriously, and its a well founded valid belief.

Do remember this is "Discussion and Writing Tips" before launching attacks on those who chose to say something. I am not a lurker, I just have little business in the SHForum at this current stage, I am more than active enough back in NUF to make up for it and where I talk outside of this small young community. Those who know me, know I am tied up IRL regarding work and a new house and that I don't have the time to stalk threads and post pointless critiques.

but it is amusing to accuse someone of being a lurker with your own lack of participation. perhaps put the inferiority complex aside to look at things objectively?
 

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,897
Points
153
I don't bait, I post my objective thoughts based on the facts I have personally looked up. Your reaction to this is taking my comment far more personally than is normal, rather than me being a "sad contemptuous individual", the behaviour of which you are in fact displaying with such a statement towards myself.

no offence (and I say this knowing full well you will automatically assume the opposite), but you are still just an amateur teaching other amateurs. A so called "blind man leading the blind".

Your grades in school do not correlate to your ability as a writer in anyway, this is proven by countless studies, think-tanks, and history. Just as being great at maths does not have any connection to being great with the handling or management of money.

I myself got a C Grade in my English classes, this was after my education board decided to take the results of everyone in our year group and drop us all uniformly by an entire grade, otherwise I could have scored higher. My point in saying this is that I excel in the grammatical and literary side of things, knowing how to properly use nouns, adjectives etc despite being unable to think of examples for each on the spot.

I don't post much because I have too strict a standard for my stuff in my own opinion and mostly assist others off-site with editing and proofing.

If you are going to quote me, then do so directly. because "I have a personal preference to only take advice from specific authors who I hold a great deal of admiration and respect for that have achieved success" does not equate to "I only take advice from certain select authors". I have a yard-stick I use to choose which advice I take seriously, and its a well founded valid belief.

Do remember this is "Discussion and Writing Tips" before launching attacks on those who chose to say something. I am not a lurker, I just have little business in the SHForum at this current stage, I am more than active enough back in NUF to make up for it and where I talk outside of this small young community. Those who know me, know I am tied up IRL regarding work and a new house and that I don't have the time to stalk threads and post pointless critiques.

but it is amusing to accuse someone of being a lurker with your own lack of participation. perhaps put the inferiority complex aside to look at things objectively?

The fact still remains, you were talking about why to ignore my post without having ever read it. That's an incredibly rude and contemptuous thing to do.

It did not bother me at first, but after some thought it struck me just how rude you were being and it was something that really did have to be called out. The thing that REALLY bothered me about it though was that you were essentially giving some very bad advice to everyone in here. Basically, telling them to ignore anyone who tries to help you unless they are highly successful to the extent of being out of reach. It was when that clicked for me that I realized I had to respond and straighten this out, and call you out on that sophism.

Also, the comment in parentheses was not directed at you. You are the sad contemptuous individual who posted negative comments about something you have not even read with what basically amounts to a "I'm not going to read it, I don't care, you shouldn't care either." That's contemptuous, and that's you.

The comment in parentheses was because the comment which I made to be specific to you came off it a way that could be generalized to lurkers who were just here reading.

Also, I would like to know your definition of professional. By the technical definition, as soon as you are getting paid for the work you are doing, you are a professional. There is also the difference between a professional and an expert. You can be an expert, someone with a very high degree of skill and ability in a subject, without being a professional.

I would like to ask if you have read my work. And by that, I do not mean the tips. I mean the actual story I have written that is almost always in the top 25 view rankings. It's got a strikethrough through it now, but I did post a link in the OP for it. Please do so before you go and start making contemptuous judgements.
 
Last edited:

DaoFox

『Silkmaid』『Queen Sylvia Glasscrest of Arya』
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
99
Points
58
the fact you are just repeating yourself hasn't changed that you took it personally and are now attacking me for stating my opinion. Nor does my opinion prevent or inhibit others from making their own judgement on whether or not to click the link and read your guide. most people start at the top of the page and read the opening comment and determine right then and there whether or not to proceed, without reading the comments further down the page.

I did not tell others what not to do, I stated what I prefer to do.

It's not sophism when you alone read too much between imaginary lines. I was telling people to choose wisely their sources of advice, telling people that by picking the wrong sources they can cause themselves more harm than good. If you take offence at that, that is your problem not mine. Perhaps you have doubts to your own advice, who knows but you.

you find me rude because I will not compromise 100% on your terms alone? so be it. that still does not make me a sad contemptuous individual. You yourself admitted to posting a guide on the basis of a single "successful" story. perhaps refrain from adding titles to yourself that are self-professed.

If I really wanted to be rude, I could just make comparisons between you as a "good writer" to those I consider "great writers" who also happen to have joined SH. I won't because it does them a disservice to be dragged into this farce of a discussion.
 

Jemini

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
1,897
Points
153
the fact you are just repeating yourself hasn't changed that you took it personally and are now attacking me for stating my opinion. Nor does my opinion prevent or inhibit others from making their own judgement on whether or not to click the link and read your guide. most people start at the top of the page and read the opening comment and determine right then and there whether or not to proceed, without reading the comments further down the page.

I did not tell others what not to do, I stated what I prefer to do.

It's not sophism when you alone read too much between imaginary lines. I was telling people to choose wisely their sources of advice, telling people that by picking the wrong sources they can cause themselves more harm than good. If you take offence at that, that is your problem not mine. Perhaps you have doubts to your own advice, who knows but you.

you find me rude because I will not compromise 100% on your terms alone? so be it. that still does not make me a sad contemptuous individual. You yourself admitted to posting a guide on the basis of a single "successful" story. perhaps refrain from adding titles to yourself that are self-professed.

If I really wanted to be rude, I could just make comparisons between you as a "good writer" to those I consider "great writers" who also happen to have joined SH. I won't because it does them a disservice to be dragged into this farce of a discussion.

Right. I am not certain you know what the term "sophism" means, going by this post. What I was referring to is the fact that you could offer such unsound advice as to refrain from even reading someone's advice because they are not a "great" writer. It sounds like pretty bad advice to me.

I was rather content to allow your comment from before to stand as is, just your opinion, because I knew bringing it up would turn into a farce, as you call it. It was when I realized that your advice was, in fact, rather bad that I had to point it out.

It is perfectly sound advice to pick your sources of information carefully. However, it becomes very VERY bad advice to say reject all sources of information without even looking because you will only listen to someone who is speaking from atop an unapproachable ivory tower. The proper advice would be to seek out informaiton from many sources and then view ALL of it skeptically, find what works, and then work from there. Yes, be judicious with what tips you choose to take to heart and what you don't, but don't just overlook things because you are looking down on the person saying it. Judge the information on its merit.

Also, I would like to ask you again. Have you viewed my work? ANY of it at all before judging me unworthy of you? That's the reason why I call your remarks contemptuous. Your attitude is really just bad, and I am sorry if being called out on it offends you. Sometimes people who just plain have a shitty attitude need to be called out on it, and contemptuous people in particular need to be taken down a peg. I am not certain if you were aware that was what you were doing, but now that it has been pointed out to you I would seriously suggest re-evaluating that attitude of yours.

Who knows? Maybe you will look at my work and find it doesn't stack up for you compared to some of the people you elevate. But still, automatically judging me as unworthy of even listening to and having to publicly announce this fact to everyone is nothing more than you just turning your nose up in the air in order to try and make yourself look good by putting someone else down.

EDIT: Also, I never "self proclaimed" myself to be a successful writer. Every time I have mentioned nothing but facts, such as the fact that I am rarely down to the second page of top viewed novels on SH these days and have even been on the top 10 a few times, and I did this with the second lowest chapter volume after "concealing abilities." (chapter volume being something that makes it a lot easier to get more daily views.) I did not just claim to be successful, I gave facts and measurements from which you can judge whether or not that qualifies as successful against your own yard stick.
 
Last edited:
Top