Writing [Tutorial] From Idea to STORY

[OokamiKasumi]

"How do you develop an idea? How do you come up with the details behind stories? ... How do you develop the world in which it takes place...?" -- Wanna World-Build! ​

In other words, what you want to know is:
How do you build a Story from an Idea?

DISCLAIMER: This is Advice, and only advice. This is a technique that I came up with that works for me. If you choose to use this technique, or just bits and pieces from here or there; Great! If not; that's fine too. Feel free to fold, spindle, or mutilate as you see fit. It is only advice.

Moonfish by SnowSkadi​

----- Original Message -----​

How do you develop an idea? How do you come up with the details behind stories? Do you get them from reading books? Do you get them from modern concepts? Or do they just come to you (if so, lucky you XD)? How do you develop the world in which it takes place? People or settings first? Do you include cults/religions/mass groups? How do you come up with these groups?​

-- Wanna World-Build! ​

Let's begin by breaking this huge pile of questions down to smaller, bite-sized pieces...

How do you develop an idea?​

​

I start with a Climactic Event.​

My ideas may originate from anything at all; from a piece of music to a picture I saw on the 'net, but to make a Story from those ideas I start with What I Want to Happen at the very heart of my story -- a central Climactic/Crisis Event. I then create a Plot Concept around it to make that event happen, and tie up loose ends after the event.

Simple Plot Concept:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Act 1: What caused the Event.
Act 2: The Climactic/Crises Event.
Act 3: What happened after.​

Example: What I Want to Happen.

• I want the central climactic/crisis event to be an epic space battle between a Galactic Empire and a tribe of Space Privateers, and I want the characters to carry Swords.

How do you come up with the [Details] behind stories?​

"Do you get them from reading books? Do you get them from modern concepts? Or do they just come to you (if so, lucky you XD)?"​

RESEARCH.​

The Details I come up with are mainly generated by reading stories similar to what I want to write, and researching what I need to know to make such an event Plausible. This tends to reveal unexpected facts which often give me MORE ideas to add to the story.

How do you make something in a story Plausible?
You use Facts to give its existence a Good Excuse to be there.​

Examples: Facts

• Did you know that privateers had Written Permission from their home country to attack the ships of the countries their country didn't like --especially if there was a war going on-- as long as they turned over a certain percentage of 'booty' to their home country?
  • (Ah ha! I now have a 'good excuse' to make the privateers the Good Guys!)
• Did you know that Empires (the British Empire in particular,) routinely hired Merchants to be Privateers when they didn't have enough ships in their fleets BECAUSE Merchant ships were extremely well-armed specifically to fight off Pirates (other Privateers)?
  • (Ah-HA! Now I have a good excuse to have a Privateers vs. Pirates battle!)
• Did you know that those same empires that hired Privateers would also systematically destroy their Privateers once a treaty was signed with the country they had gone to war with, mainly because this was often a condition for a treaty to be signed?
  • (Ah-HA! Now I have a 'good excuse' for Privateers to become pissed off at an empire!)
• Did you know that using a projectile weapon of any sort on a spaceship spelled Instant Death should that projectile shoot through the outer hull?
  • (Ah-AH! I know have a 'good excuse' to have all my characters carry Swords!)

How do you develop the world in which it takes place? ​

"People or Settings first? Do you include cults/religions/mass groups? How do you come up with these groups?" ​

I begin with the World.​

I always start with the SETTING, the World my characters will inhabit. I research everything to look for clues about what kind of cultures, politics, employment, social positions, religions, etc. would come into play in such a story because a character's culture and civilization will be what makes each character who they are -- the same way that your culture and civilization made you who you are.

Things I need to know on Space, Empires, and Privateers.

• How do Empires happen, and how are they governed?
• Why would Privateers be hired?
• Under what conditions would privateers be attacked by an empire?
• What are the conditions for living in space?
• What kinds of space travel would I need, (Faster-than-light? Folding space? Jump-gates...?) and can they be adapted to what I want to do?
• What kind of weapons would a spaceship have? (Particle cannons?)
• How would a space battle be conducted?

Note: For a far more in-depth essay on World-Building, go here:

The Ultimate Guide To World-Building:​

How To Write Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Real-Life Worlds​

-- and read that.

Then I build my Characters.​

Once I have a good grasp of the cultures my characters would inhabit, then I decide what kind of characteristics and backgrounds the Characters would need to make my Event happen -- or Not happen.

Things I need to know about my Characters:

• Why would people (or a whole family) become privateers?
• Why would someone hate the empire?
• Why would someone hate privateers?
• What kind of training would be needed to fight in 0 gravity?
• If I make the main character a neutral party, where would such a character come from, and why would they have such a mindset?

Next! Getting those characters to work with or against each other AND the Plot!

Introducing
The Character Arc​

What is the difference between a Plot Arc and a Character Arc?

PLOT ARC: The events that happen while the characters make other plans.
CHARACTER ARC: The emotional roller-coaster that the character suffers while dealing with the Plot. ​

To make a story a cohesive whole, every single thing in it must be there for a reason. Every single character, object, location, and event must push toward the ending you have planned even if it doesn't look that way to the casual observer.

In other words, every scene in the story should either illustrate a characteristic or attribute of a Main Character, or be an Event that moves the story toward your Ending.

What the Character Arc does is map out the Emotional path your characters need to take to grow and change into the heroes and heroines your story needs to fulfill your story's driving point; the Premise, and achieve your story's desired Ending.

Note: I only use a full Character Arc on my three main characters:​

​

The PROPONENT: The one trying to keep things the way they are, for the Greater Good. ​

-- Traditionally the Hero, the Protagonist with character traits designed specifically to work against the plot.​

​

The ADVERSARY: The one trying to Change things and causing all the trouble.​

-- The traditional Villain, the Antagonist that the Hero absolutely Cannot beat when the Hero first enters the fray.​

​

The ALLY: (Middle-man) – The close companion of one or the other.​

-- Traditionally the Victim, but these days it's the Companion, the Lover, or Best Friend who gets trapped between the Proponent and the Adversary. Also, traditionally the viewpoint character!​

​

This is because once you Start a Character Arc, the readers want to see that Arc completed. The more Character Arcs your story has, the longer that story needs to be to complete each one. Since I prefer to stop my stories at 100,000 words, (100k,) I only write Arcs I absolutely need.​

For the record, a Character Arc can be used all by itself as the plot-line for a story, or in addition to an actual Plot Arc such as The Heroic Journey, or any of hundreds of Plot Arcs found in books and on the 'net.

My personal choice is to use a Character Arc in addition to a Plot Arc, but that's just me.


For my Character Arcs, I use:

The Stages of Grief:

1. Shock &Denial
2. Pain &Guilt
3. Anger & Bargaining
4. Despair & Reflection
5. Precipice & Choice
6. Reconstruction & Adjustment
7. Acceptance & Hope

In the Stages of Grief, the word "Grief” is actually misleading. The stages aren't strictly about crushing depression. They merely map the cycle of someone under emotional pressure created by conflicts; and story conflict should create emotional pressure for your characters.

Never forget: Stories need Emotional Conflict to be fulfilling.

"Do these stages go in EXACTLY this order?"
-- Denial ALWAYS comes First. Acceptance ALWAYS goes Last. The others can be juggled around as you please. I listed the most useful and common order. Feel free to Experiment!

"Where the heck did you find these – Stages?"
-- Human Psychology. You can look it up on Google by typing in: stages of grief.

"Are there Other maps for Character Arcs?"
-- Absolutely! Any human behavior pattern can be used as a Character Arc map. “The Stages of Grief” is merely the easiest to work with and most commonly used.



In Conclusion

And that's how I build a Story from an Idea.

Enjoy!

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Heheh... I usually know the start, middle, and end. The rest just flows as characters interact with one another.

"Do these stages go in EXACTLY this order?"
-- Denial ALWAYS comes First. Acceptance ALWAYS goes Last. The others can be juggled around as you please. I listed the most useful and common order. Feel free to Experiment!

In nursing school, they teach us the 5 stages of grief instead of 7. We are taught that this is the order people go by. BUT... I would love to disagree with the person who said that. The stages are:
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Not everyone goes through deep denial first. Though it is our first response to something negative. This also depends on how the situation comes about. If it is something spontaneous, then yes, outright denial is the usual coping mechanism we use. But if it is something that we knew was coming, then usually the stages are shorter. Sometimes they are so short that they are unnoticeable.

This usually depends on the type of personality a person has. Thus... it is important to know everyone is different. They do not display these in the same way. A person might wail, while another might be deathly silent. I hate it when someone says that person is laughing, they can't be sad. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

Smiles and laughter can hide many pains we can't see. Also important, each stage has no limitation. This means denial can last from minutes to years. Same as anger and all the others. Everyone is different. Though, once they reach acceptance, that means they have "Overcome" the issue. This, in actuality, isn't true.

What that means is that person has learned to live with the burden or loss. There isn't any overcoming. You just get used to the situation you live in. This said one can jump from denial straight into depression and so on. There isn't an order per se, as everyone is an individual. Some people don't even experience grief at all.

*Use this as partly educational. Most of this is a personal experience and what I learned in my short 28 years of life. Please inform yourself more by searching in reliable sources.*

Hehe... I wanted to add to the knowledge pool, Okami~

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Heheh... I usually know the start, middle, and end. The rest just flows as characters interact with one another.


In nursing school, they teach us the 5 stages of grief instead of 7. We are taught that this is the order people go by. BUT... I would love to disagree with the person who said that. The stages are:
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Not everyone goes through deep denial first. Though it is our first response to something negative. This also depends on how the situation comes about. If it is something spontaneous, then yes, outright denial is the usual coping mechanism we use. But if it is something that we knew was coming, then usually the stages are shorter. Sometimes they are so short that they are unnoticeable.

This usually depends on the type of personality a person has. Thus... it is important to know everyone is different. They do not display these in the same way. A person might wail, while another might be deathly silent. I hate it when someone says that person is laughing, they can't be sad. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

Smiles and laughter can hide many pains we can't see. Also important, each stage has no limitation. This means denial can last from minutes to years. Same as anger and all the others. Everyone is different. Though, once they reach acceptance, that means they have "Overcome" the issue. This, in actuality, isn't true.

What that means is that person has learned to live with the burden or loss. There isn't any overcoming. You just get used to the situation you live in. This said one can jump from denial straight into depression and so on. There isn't an order per se, as everyone is an individual. Some people don't even experience grief at all.

*Use this as partly educational. Most of this is a personal experience and what I learned in my short 28 years of life. Please inform yourself more by searching in reliable sources.*

Hehe... I wanted to add to the knowledge pool, Okami~

You are absolutely right on all of this.
-- And yes, the order of the stages actually are absolute, but every time I say that some ass comes along and bitches about nothing being absolute. Sigh...

~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

You are absolutely right on all of this.
-- And yes, the order of the stages actually are absolute, but every time I say that some ass comes along and bitches about nothing being absolute. Sigh...

~~~~~~~~~~~

Whoever that is, must have had nothing bad happen to them. The simple thought of "This can't be happening to me!" or "Why does this keep happening to me?" is denial. Once that starts, it is travel to acceptance. Anger might be short-lived, but, "Why didn't they help me!" is anger towards something or someone.

Then comes bargaining, "Maybe there is something I can do to change this!" Depression usually tends to be the longest and hardest to come out from, "Why do I feel so alone?" "Without them here, life has no meaning..." "When I die will anything I did be remembered?" Acceptance tends to be more of "Okay, where do I go now?".

These stages always occur, though the duration is short to long. Just because they are short doesn't mean they aren't there. Sadly, people are asses and don't understand human psychology. That is something I believe every writer should understand, though. I mean, we are writing about humans. We should know how their minds work. If we write aliens and monsters, I am guessing some of those human qualities things also come along.

Even evil aliens have feelings, guys!

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Whoever that is, must have had nothing bad happen to them. The simple thought of "This can't be happening to me!" or "Why does this keep happening to me?" is denial. Once that starts, it is travel to acceptance. Anger might be short-lived, but, "Why didn't they help me!" is anger towards something or someone.

Then comes bargaining, "Maybe there is something I can do to change this!" Depression usually tends to be the longest and hardest to come out from, "Why do I feel so alone?" "Without them here, life has no meaning..." "When I die will anything I did be remembered?" Acceptance tends to be more of "Okay, where do I go now?".

These stages always occur, though the duration is short to long. Just because they are short doesn't mean they aren't there. Sadly, people are asses and don't understand human psychology. That is something I believe every writer should understand, though. I mean, we are writing about humans. We should know how their minds work. If we write aliens and monsters, I am guessing some of those human qualities things also come along.

Even evil aliens have feelings, guys!

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaking of human psychology, have you noticed that all the best designed villains are highly socialized psychopaths? However, the most sympathetic villains tend to be the opposite; those whose compassion and kindness were betrayed?

~~~~~~~~~~

 

[CupcakeNinja]

"How do you develop an idea? How do you come up with the details behind stories? ... How do you develop the world in which it takes place...?" -- Wanna World-Build! ​

In other words, what you want to know is:
How do you build a Story from an Idea?

DISCLAIMER: This is Advice, and only advice. This is a technique that I came up with that works for me. If you choose to use this technique, or just bits and pieces from here or there; Great! If not; that's fine too. Feel free to fold, spindle, or mutilate as you see fit. It is only advice.

View attachment 9764
Moonfish by SnowSkadi​

----- Original Message -----​

How do you develop an idea? How do you come up with the details behind stories? Do you get them from reading books? Do you get them from modern concepts? Or do they just come to you (if so, lucky you XD)? How do you develop the world in which it takes place? People or settings first? Do you include cults/religions/mass groups? How do you come up with these groups?​

-- Wanna World-Build! ​

Let's begin by breaking this huge pile of questions down to smaller, bite-sized pieces...

How do you develop an idea?​

​

I start with a Climactic Event.​

My ideas may originate from anything at all; from a piece of music to a picture I saw on the 'net, but to make a Story from those ideas I start with What I Want to Happen at the very heart of my story -- a central Climactic/Crisis Event. I then create a Plot Concept around it to make that event happen, and tie up loose ends after the event.

Simple Plot Concept:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Act 1: What caused the Event.
Act 2: The Climactic/Crises Event.
Act 3: What happened after.​

Example: What I Want to Happen.

• I want the central climactic/crisis event to be an epic space battle between a Galactic Empire and a tribe of Space Privateers, and I want the characters to carry Swords.

How do you come up with the [Details] behind stories?​

"Do you get them from reading books? Do you get them from modern concepts? Or do they just come to you (if so, lucky you XD)?"​

RESEARCH.​

The Details I come up with are mainly generated by reading stories similar to what I want to write, and researching what I need to know to make such an event Plausible. This tends to reveal unexpected facts which often give me MORE ideas to add to the story.

How do you make something in a story Plausible?
You use Facts to give its existence a Good Excuse to be there.​

Examples: Facts

• Did you know that privateers had Written Permission from their home country to attack the ships of the countries their country didn't like --especially if there was a war going on-- as long as they turned over a certain percentage of 'booty' to their home country?
  • (Ah ha! I now have a 'good excuse' to make the privateers the Good Guys!)
• Did you know that Empires (the British Empire in particular,) routinely hired Merchants to be Privateers when they didn't have enough ships in their fleets BECAUSE Merchant ships were extremely well-armed specifically to fight off Pirates (other Privateers)?
  • (Ah-HA! Now I have a good excuse to have a Privateers vs. Pirates battle!)
• Did you know that those same empires that hired Privateers would also systematically destroy their Privateers once a treaty was signed with the country they had gone to war with, mainly because this was often a condition for a treaty to be signed?
  • (Ah-HA! Now I have a 'good excuse' for Privateers to become pissed off at an empire!)
• Did you know that using a projectile weapon of any sort on a spaceship spelled Instant Death should that projectile shoot through the outer hull?
  • (Ah-AH! I know have a 'good excuse' to have all my characters carry Swords!)

How do you develop the world in which it takes place? ​

"People or Settings first? Do you include cults/religions/mass groups? How do you come up with these groups?" ​

I begin with the World.​

I always start with the SETTING, the World my characters will inhabit. I research everything to look for clues about what kind of cultures, politics, employment, social positions, religions, etc. would come into play in such a story because a character's culture and civilization will be what makes each character who they are -- the same way that your culture and civilization made you who you are.

Things I need to know on Space, Empires, and Privateers.

• How do Empires happen, and how are they governed?
• Why would Privateers be hired?
• Under what conditions would privateers be attacked by an empire?
• What are the conditions for living in space?
• What kinds of space travel would I need, (Faster-than-light? Folding space? Jump-gates...?) and can they be adapted to what I want to do?
• What kind of weapons would a spaceship have? (Particle cannons?)
• How would a space battle be conducted?

Note: For a far more in-depth essay on World-Building, go here:

The Ultimate Guide To World-Building:​

How To Write Fantasy, Sci-Fi and Real-Life Worlds​

-- and read that.

Then I build my Characters.​

Once I have a good grasp of the cultures my characters would inhabit, then I decide what kind of characteristics and backgrounds the Characters would need to make my Event happen -- or Not happen.

Things I need to know about my Characters:

• Why would people (or a whole family) become privateers?
• Why would someone hate the empire?
• Why would someone hate privateers?
• What kind of training would be needed to fight in 0 gravity?
• If I make the main character a neutral party, where would such a character come from, and why would they have such a mindset?

Next! Getting those characters to work with or against each other AND the Plot!

Introducing
The Character Arc​

What is the difference between a Plot Arc and a Character Arc?

PLOT ARC: The events that happen while the characters make other plans.
CHARACTER ARC: The emotional roller-coaster that the character suffers while dealing with the Plot. ​

To make a story a cohesive whole, every single thing in it must be there for a reason. Every single character, object, location, and event must push toward the ending you have planned even if it doesn't look that way to the casual observer.

In other words, every scene in the story should either illustrate a characteristic or attribute of a Main Character, or be an Event that moves the story toward your Ending.

What the Character Arc does is map out the Emotional path your characters need to take to grow and change into the heroes and heroines your story needs to fulfill your story's driving point; the Premise, and achieve your story's desired Ending.

Note: I only use a full Character Arc on my three main characters:​

​

The PROPONENT: The one trying to keep things the way they are, for the Greater Good. ​

-- Traditionally the Hero, the Protagonist with character traits designed specifically to work against the plot.​

​

The ADVERSARY: The one trying to Change things and causing all the trouble.​

-- The traditional Villain, the Antagonist that the Hero absolutely Cannot beat when the Hero first enters the fray.​

​

The ALLY: (Middle-man) – The close companion of one or the other.​

-- Traditionally the Victim, but these days it's the Companion, the Lover, or Best Friend who gets trapped between the Proponent and the Adversary. Also, traditionally the viewpoint character!​

​

This is because once you Start a Character Arc, the readers want to see that Arc completed. The more Character Arcs your story has, the longer that story needs to be to complete each one. Since I prefer to stop my stories at 100,000 words, (100k,) I only write Arcs I absolutely need.​

For the record, a Character Arc can be used all by itself as the plot-line for a story, or in addition to an actual Plot Arc such as The Heroic Journey, or any of hundreds of Plot Arcs found in books and on the 'net.

My personal choice is to use a Character Arc in addition to a Plot Arc, but that's just me.


For my Character Arcs, I use:

The Stages of Grief:

1. Shock &Denial
2. Pain &Guilt
3. Anger & Bargaining
4. Despair & Reflection
5. Precipice & Choice
6. Reconstruction & Adjustment
7. Acceptance & Hope

In the Stages of Grief, the word "Grief” is actually misleading. The stages aren't strictly about crushing depression. They merely map the cycle of someone under emotional pressure created by conflicts; and story conflict should create emotional pressure for your characters.

Never forget: Stories need Emotional Conflict to be fulfilling.

"Do these stages go in EXACTLY this order?"
-- Denial ALWAYS comes First. Acceptance ALWAYS goes Last. The others can be juggled around as you please. I listed the most useful and common order. Feel free to Experiment!

"Where the heck did you find these – Stages?"
-- Human Psychology. You can look it up on Google by typing in: stages of grief.

"Are there Other maps for Character Arcs?"
-- Absolutely! Any human behavior pattern can be used as a Character Arc map. “The Stages of Grief” is merely the easiest to work with and most commonly used.



In Conclusion

And that's how I build a Story from an Idea.

Enjoy!

i dont do much world building Why? Because i normally just write stories that are based off certain cliched settings. Where i differentiate them from others is with my characters. I do pretty good character interactions, and i mainly write comedy. So the focus is never the world setting and the state its in.
Therefore, i don't build upon it very much.
Do i have the skill to fully develop a world with a thriving array of cultures, people and organizations inhabiting it? Sure, i have full confidence in doing so. How do i, given i don't ever really write such stories? Because I've read a fuck ton of great writers who themselves had made very vibrant worlds and i have them to take example from. There's no excuse for anyone to not do the same, which is why whenever someone has questions on writing i usually say, "go read your favorite stories, see how those authors do it."

But again, i don't world build alot because those things are almost never the focus of my story. And another reason is because due to the settings and themes being quite common, such as a medieval setting in a fantasy world, well everyone and their mother knows what those look like by now. I don't bog readers down with such worthless details, because the fun is in my characters and how they interact with each other.

I do have stories where i do a bit more world building than usual, but unless its an alternate earth then i just let the common "medieval fantasy world" speak for itself.

 

[OokamiKasumi]

i dont do much world building Why? Because i normally just write stories that are based off certain cliched settings. Where i differentiate them from others is with my characters. I do pretty good character interactions, and i mainly write comedy. So the focus is never the world setting and the state its in.
Therefore, i don't build upon it very much.
Do i have the skill to fully develop a world with a thriving array of cultures, people and organizations inhabiting it? Sure, i have full confidence in doing so. How do i, given i don't ever really write such stories? Because I've read a fuck ton of great writers who themselves had made very vibrant worlds and i have them to take example from. There's no excuse for anyone to not do the same, which is why whenever someone has questions on writing i usually say, "go read your favorite stories, see how those authors do it."

But again, i don't world build alot because those things are almost never the focus of my story. And another reason is because due to the settings and themes being quite common, such as a medieval setting in a fantasy world, well everyone and their mother knows what those look like by now. I don't bog readers down with such worthless details, because the fun is in my characters and how they interact with each other.

I do have stories where i do a bit more world building than usual, but unless its an alternate earth then i just let the common "medieval fantasy world" speak for itself.

What a terrible shame. I'd love to see what your imagination could cook up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[greyblob]

Speaking of human psychology, have you noticed that all the best designed villains are highly socialized psychopaths? However, the most sympathetic villains tend to be the opposite; those whose compassion and kindness were betrayed

Oh, I'm not sure I agree with this. The best villains are the ones you can sympathize with, ordinary people turned sociopaths. Psychopathic villains are very rarely done right, and are often reduced to being illogical just for the sake of being evil.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

What a terrible shame. I'd love to see what your imagination could cook up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For that I would have to stop using the light novel format. Make it more something like Way of Kings or Wheel of Time. And while I loves those series, they just ain't my focus right now, genre-wise.

It is a shame tho cuz I have a lot of practical knowledge about various subjects that just never come up in my stories, usually, and I'd like to explore that someday.
For example, did you know in TRUE medieval tines, people didnt have napkins? So they wiped their hands on bread and threw it to the pigs after. And that during battles, sometimes knights had to piss or shit themselves while fighting?

See, I got a buncha little facts like that. Gritty details that people dont often use or even know about. And that's just regarding real-world stuff. I also know a fuck ton about Irish, Egyptian and Welsh mythology. Everyone always uses Greek or Arthurian lore, but a lotta other mythologies have very cool things to take inspiration from too. The Witcher series is a prime example of that.

I did once create my own magic system as well that took inspiration from the Kabbalah tree of life. With checks and balances regarding the various ranks and styles of magic one chose to learn. I just never actually brought it to life.

...I'm ranting now, sorry. Lol.

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Oh, I'm not sure I agree with this. The best villains are the ones you can sympathize with, ordinary people turned sociopaths. Psychopathic villains are very rarely done right, and are often reduced to being illogical just for the sake of being evil.

Hmmm... I agree that it is difficult to write a psychopath/sociopath properly, especially if the writer was never been exposed to one. Someone that actually has dealt with one, or worse, grew up with one in the family, (me; father and brother,) would definitely spot when someone gets them wrong.

You are absolutely correct in that a psychopath would not do something illogical -- from their point of view. The trick is figuring out what they consider logical.

What neither would do was something based on Compassion, or Guilt. Their brains are physically incapable of feeling those emotions. They can Act like they feel them to guilt-trip others, but they can't actually feel them themselves.

Well-written psychopaths: Hannibal Lector of Silence of the Lambs, and Dexter Morgan of Darkly Dreaming Dexter and the TV series Dexter.

That's a corpse's arm.
​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For that I would have to stop using the light novel format. Make it more something like Way of Kings or Wheel of Time. And while I loves those series, they just ain't my focus right now, genre-wise.

It is a shame tho cuz I have a lot of practical knowledge about various subjects that just never come up in my stories, usually, and I'd like to explore that someday.
For example, did you know in TRUE medieval tines, people didnt have napkins? So they wiped their hands on bread and threw it to the pigs after. And that during battles, sometimes knights had to piss or shit themselves while fighting?

See, I got a buncha little facts like that. Gritty details that people dont often use or even know about. And that's just regarding real-world stuff. I also know a fuck ton about Irish, Egyptian and Welsh mythology. Everyone always uses Greek or Arthurian lore, but a lotta other mythologies have very cool things to take inspiration from too. The Witcher series is a prime example of that.

I did once create my own magic system as well that took inspiration from the Kabbalah tree of life. With checks and balances regarding the various ranks and styles of magic one chose to learn. I just never actually brought it to life.

...I'm ranting now, sorry. Lol.

Actually, I've been part of a living history group called the SCA, Society for Creative Anachronisms, since 1990, so yes, I am well aware of a lot of medieval trivia. I'm also very fond of Welsh, Irish, and Scottish --Celtic-- mythology, and Egyptian mythology is very fascinating.

He is the One god!
He is the Sun god!
Ra! Ra! Ra!

As for magic... Let's just say I've been practicing for a few decades now.

You should put your knowledge to use some time!

~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[greyblob]

Hmmm... I agree that it is difficult to write a psychopath/sociopath properly, especially if the writer was never been exposed to one. Someone that actually has dealt with one, or worse, grew up with one in the family, (me; father and brother,) would definitely spot when someone gets them wrong.

You are absolutely correct in that a psychopath would not do something illogical -- from their point of view. The trick is figuring out what they consider logical.

What neither would do was something based on Compassion, or Guilt. Their brains are physically incapable of feeling those emotions. They can Act like they feel them to guilt-trip others, but they can't actually feel them themselves.

Well-written psychopaths: Hannibal Lector of Silence of the Lambs, and Dexter Morgan of Darkly Dreaming Dexter and the TV series Dexter.

I agree with almost everything. I don't think sociopaths and psychopaths can be lumped together. Psychopaths have no conscious; it is none existent. Sociopaths have one, however small. They can feel guilt and compassion, in varying degrees, and chose to ignore it. But it's a choice whether made consciously or unconsciously. A sociopath could also be a victim of their surroundings/upbringing, a psychopath is born that way.

I'd say most villains (and heroes) are sociopaths, and very few are psychopaths. Also, I watched both examples you mentioned, and I'd very very highly recommend watching Hannibal, the tv series.

 

[SakeVision]

you forgot a bottle vodka there, champ

cant write a story without one, hence I'm on a short hiatus now

 

[OokamiKasumi]

...Psychopaths have no conscious; it is none existent. Sociopaths have one, however small. They can feel guilt and compassion, in varying degrees, and chose to ignore it. But it's a choice whether made consciously or unconsciously. A sociopath could also be a victim of their surroundings/upbringing, a psychopath is born that way.

This sounds like experience talking. Similar to mine, perhaps? Very few people actually know the real differences between a psychopath and a sociopath. I was impressed that you do.

As you said, a psychopath is born missing compassion and remorse. A sociopath, on the other hand, voluntarily shuts those emotions off cold, emulating psychopathic behavior right down to the body language. A sociopath can turn them back on, but it takes work to get those emotions functioning properly again. Sometimes years of work if they've cut themselves off for an extended period of time. However, they never lose that ability to shut them back off if they feel the need to.

Yes, sociopaths are made, most commonly by long-term exposure to a psychopath, but severe emotional trauma can flip that switch too.

I'd say most villains (and heroes) are sociopaths, and very few are psychopaths.

I agree, heroes could all too easily be sociopaths, especially game/dungeon heroes. In fact, they probably should be.

I think the lack of proper psychopath villains has to do with inexperience on the writer's part. Dealing with real life psychopaths is so disturbing on so many levels; physical and emotional, the writer is far more likely to write one into a horror story than use one as a common villain.

Also, I watched both examples you mentioned, and I'd very very highly recommend watching Hannibal, the tv series.

I have heard very good things about Hannibal. I'm just not sure I can watch it. The Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs was much too close to what I dealt with personally.

I very much enjoyed Dexter, but he was more a sociopath than a full psychopath. He actually had limits and could cut all his emotions off -- including anger and rage. That's a sociopath trait. Psychopaths enjoy their rages too much to control themselves like that.

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[greyblob]

This sounds like experience talking. Similar to mine, perhaps? Very few people actually know the real differences between a psychopath and a sociopath. I was impressed that you do.

Uh, maybe? It was mostly out of curiosity though. I honestly thought most people knew the difference, all it takes is a little bit of research - and some relatability to understand their behavior. Isn't there a ranking list of jobs that require and consist of highly sociopathic individuals? I remember doctors, lawyers, and journalists are up there.

I have heard very good things about Hannibal. I'm just not sure I can watch it. The Hannibal in Silence of the Lambs was much too close to what I dealt with personally.

I very much enjoyed Dexter, but he was more a sociopath than a full psychopath. He actually had limits and could cut all his emotions off -- including anger and rage. That's a sociopath trait. Psychopaths enjoy their rages too much to control themselves like that.

Hannibal is very different from Silence of the Lambs. But considering you felt that strong of a reaction to the movie, I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea. However, there is no Clarice. There's Will, a man, and their dynamic is much different as well. I'd still recommend it. It's dense, much denser than the movies imo. I have seen a lot of TV shows, and by far, it's one of the best out there.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaking of human psychology, have you noticed that all the best designed villains are highly socialized psychopaths? However, the most sympathetic villains tend to be the opposite; those whose compassion and kindness were betrayed?

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This is true. People tend to love good turned to bad. To me, the most compelling stories are the ones where the good guy turns evil. This is because I can identify more with the villain and their motives. More than the psychopath or sociopath, whose chemical composition makes them unique and unforgiving monsters. Most people can't identify with a person incapable of feeling anything.