Writing [Tutorial] Is Description really needed? YES.

SakeVision

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The coomer audience is very easy to please in any medium. Look at the many hentai rpg maker games that exist on steam.

I think their popularity is due to interactivity, a lot of people simply prefer that to passively gazing at animated hentai movies or reading doujins, just as other people prefer reading or writing purely text-based literotica to mostly visual manga ero doujins.
 

OokamiKasumi

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I mean all my readers say the love how I describe things. I always tell them to be honest with me. But I guess with experience I will slowly be able to get better. c: *I have no idea where to get beta readers. Though, I write for fun.*
You get Beta-Readers from your Fans.
-- In the author's note of your stories, tell your fans that you're looking for Beta-readers and have them message you privately. The ones that really like your work will respond -- eagerly. You want at least two of them; one male, one female, but more is better.

I have a whole essay with a Questionnaire for beta-readers and how to ask for what you actually need. I'll post that tomorrow, if you like?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OokamiKasumi:
You know, you can always suggest a topic...?

I have no idea. What would say are the most common mistakes novice authors do?
The #1 most common mistakes novice writers make are in "The Secret to Proper Paragraphing."
You're going to have to be a little more specific. LOL!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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KoyukiMegumi

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You get Beta-Readers from your Fans.
-- In the author's note of your stories, tell your fans that you're looking for Beta-readers and have them message you privately. The ones that really like your work will respond -- eagerly. You want at least two of them; one male, one female, but more is better.

I have a whole essay with a Questionnaire for beta-readers and how to ask for what you actually need. I'll post that tomorrow, if you like?
Sure~ no harm in learning.~ :blob_aww:
 

OokamiKasumi

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oh hey xxxholic I love that anime.
Me too! 💖

Also this is really good advice but overdoing descriptions makes a novel drag.
Yes it can, most definitely. The trick is to have enough description to allow the reader to imagine what's happening clearly, and not dump it all in one massive chunk. Description needs to be broken up between events happening, character actions, dialogue, and internal commentary by the POV character.

Light novels are called light because they use simple to use kanji.
They use simple kanji in lite novels because the bulk of the Japanese population that read lite novels, have only a High School reading level. They don't have the vocabulary to read more in-depth and literary novels.

In an english context this would be shortening prose and leaving some things to implication.
In English context, Japanese Lite novels compare to middle grade Chapter Books and high school Young Adult (YA) books. In fact, most translated lite novels that are not put in the Comic Book section, are put in the Young Adult section of books stores -- even those with mild adult content.

Seriously, I found Vampire Hunter D light novels and several Boys' Love lite novels, in the Young Adult section of my local Barnes and Nobel's book store.

So you are correct, Japanese lite novels are written without a lot of description and action -- because far too many of the Japanese reading audience simply can't read the kanji for it.

English readers on the other hand, tend to have a far broader and more comprehensive vocabulary, simply because words based on a common alphabet are easier to figure out.

However, English readers who read for pleasure tend to have a college level vocabulary, and lite novels, despite the content, read like kiddy books; simple words, barely any descriptions, stock characters, and simple plot-lines. They're even short like kiddy books: 40k to 60k in length when the average romance, fantasy, or sci-fi novel starts at 100k.

This doesn't mean we don't enjoy reading lite novels! It just means that they're more...snack food then a full meal.


Not all dialogue needs an action behind it. Saying 'said' or putting something simple after the dialogue is fine. That's just my 2 cents.
As long as your Readers are happy, that's all that counts.

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OokamiKasumi

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People here keep asking about how to write a good fight scene.
That --writing fight scenes/action scenes-- I can help with!

It's even controversial!
-- Before one can write any action scene, one must arrange the words in one's sentences so that they read: Action THEN Reaction. This begins by removing the word "as".

EvilAs_OokamiKasumi.gif
 
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Flashwolf96

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🤔 If "as" is taboo, then I wonder if "began" is also the same? For example:

"The vampire crouched over his victim and began to drink his fill."

That's probably how I'd write it just before going into more detail about the exact process, since saying that he "drank his fill" in the same sentence as when he'd started feels a little too abrupt for me unless this wasn't the first time it's been described.

And on a side note, I'm basically the antithesis of that whole idea, since I use "as" basically everywhere in my novels :sweat_smile:
 

OokamiKasumi

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On:
EvilAs_OokamiKasumi.gif


🤔 If "as" is taboo, then I wonder if "began" is also the same? For example:

"The vampire crouched over his victim and began to drink his fill."
I originally planned to put 'began' in, but it took too much room on the stamp, and the stamp was already oversized.

That's probably how I'd write it just before going into more detail about the exact process, since saying that he "drank his fill" in the same sentence as when he'd started feels a little too abrupt for me unless this wasn't the first time it's been described.
I should hope so! After all, a story is not limited to the size of a stamp.

On a side note, I'm basically the antithesis of that whole idea, since I use "as" basically everywhere in my novels :sweat_smile:
Cringe... Well, if that's the way you want to write your stories...?

However, I would strongly suggest NOT reading my tutorial on how to write Action Scenes. You won't like it.

In order to keep a scene from being confusing, the Action needs to come BEFORE the Reaction, and the word "as" more often then not, indicates a sentence that is written Backwards: Reaction THEN Action.

As far as I'm concerned, "as" is perfectly fine as the first word of a sentence, or when used in a comparison; 'as good as gold,' or 'as black as pitch.'

However, when you have something like this...?

Pain flashed in her cheek as she was slapped.​
No. This line is Backwards. Reaction THEN Action.

Pain flashed in her cheek -- Reaction.​
She was slapped -- Action.​

Which actually came first?

Pain flashed in her cheek.​
She was slapped.​

See the problem?

This particular writing issue stems from the way we are taught to write English in school, or rather, how we are Not taught to write. We are not taught Fiction writing, we're taught Journalistic essay writing (newspaper/magazine,) and Report (business) writing.

Journalistic writing and business writing all begin with an announcement of what they plan to cover, usually in the opening paragraph, then go into the details.

Your basic essay.

Essays are written in Passive Voice, with the important parts first and the details following to explain why the important parts are important. Dialogue is not paragraphed separately by speaker, but by impact on what is being explained. Paragraphs are divided by changes in idea, rather like a bullet list.

Essay in a nutshell:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Opening paragraph: There is this important thing!
Meat of the essay: These are all the details proving why this thing is important!
Closing paragraph: This is why this is important to everyone!

"As" is used frequently (and often) because the sentences of an essay are structured for maximum Impact on the reader with the Important parts given precedence.

In Journalistic writing this line is correct:

Pain flashed in her cheek as she was slapped.​

It is written in Passive Voice, --the Objective viewpoint-- and the most important part of the line, the word with the most impact, is stated first: Pain.

More accurately:

Pain flashed in her cheek because she was slapped.​

Stories in English should not be written like essays or news reports; in passive voice or from an objective viewpoint.

Stories should make the reader experience what is happening from among the characters, not just know that it happened from a newscaster. ☕

~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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CupcakeNinja

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Japanese 'lite novel' fiction doesn't do description the way English does. Japanese lite novels describe by way of using direct nouns: "the school uniform," and comparison; "the color of a peony at twilight."

It's not that the vocabulary isn't there, Japanese Literary novels do indeed have description. However, illiteracy is a huge problem in Japan. Japanese lite novel authors have to write what their readers can actually read, and many of their Readers wouldn't recognize kanji beyond a high school level.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Get a couple beta-readers --3 or 4-- and ask them point blank, what they think about your description.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thank you? Um... I'll do better next time?

You know, you can always suggest a topic...?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, yes they will.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
thats exactly the difference between a light novel and a regular novel, like from western authors. Reasons aside, Japanese authors arent description heavy. That's not always a flaw, and it can even be called a style. But that isn't exactly the important bit of my previous comment. I'm more saying that anyone who exclusively reads Japanese light novels or had only read such stories for a long period of time, at least, wont be able to write as expressively as they would like to.

Of course it would seem bare bones when you read what you write, if the only examples you learned from are stories that are lacking in certain qualities like descriptions and character depth.

Not to say all light novels are like that, but a majority are very simple. Again, reasons aside. But yeah, a person has to be more diverse in what they read. We have so many great authors to take example from when it comes to description and world building. Brandon Sanderson and Tolkien to name just two. So why dont people go to them to learn? If your writing lacks in something and you dont like it, GO READ MORE, BETTER BOOKS.

Sticking to only Japanese light novels is going to just limit you. Well, some people who arent native English speakers also have this problem. But I've known many native English speakers who suffer from the same thing just because they dont read much, or only trashy, poorly written isekai stories.
 

Flashwolf96

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Cringe... Well, if that's the way you want to write your stories...?

However, I would strongly suggest NOT reading my tutorial on how to write Action Scenes. You won't like it.

In order to keep a scene from being confusing, the Action needs to come BEFORE the Reaction, and the word "as" more often then not, indicates a sentence that is written Backwards: Reaction THEN Action.

As far as I'm concerned, "as" is perfectly fine as the first word of a sentence, or when used in a comparison; 'as good as gold,' or 'as black as pitch.'

However, when you have something like this...?

The pain flashed in her cheek as she was slapped.

No. This line is Backwards; Reaction THEN Action.

Which actually came first?

The pain flashed in her cheek.
She was slapped.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh no it's no problem at all. I'm not the type to get upset over someone simply having a different viewpoint to me (and in fact learning about other viewpoints helps me to better understand my own, so I quite enjoy it). It really is just a preference thing for me though, since it comes naturally to me as a writer and reads better in my mind too. I would actually prefer to read, "The pain flashed in her cheek as she was slapped." to the alternative of, "She was slapped and the pain flashed in her cheek."

In fact, I can't think of a single way to structure that latter sentence that would make it sound comparatively better than the former to me. It could very well be because of my narrow perspective on proper grammar and such, but again I prefer to think of it as just a matter of preference.
 

OokamiKasumi

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Oh no it's no problem at all. I'm not the type to get upset over someone simply having a different viewpoint to me (and in fact learning about other viewpoints helps me to better understand my own, so I quite enjoy it). It really is just a preference thing for me though, since it comes naturally to me as a writer and reads better in my mind too. I would actually prefer to read, "The pain flashed in her cheek as she was slapped." to the alternative of, "She was slapped and the pain flashed in her cheek."

In fact, I can't think of a single way to structure that latter sentence that would make it sound comparatively better than the former to me. It could very well be because of my narrow perspective on proper grammar and such, but again I prefer to think of it as just a matter of preference.

That's perfectly fine.
-- Um... I tried to message you but couldn't. I was...still writing the post when you replied...? So there's more?
 

Flashwolf96

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Ah, I see. Well I can't say I'm particularly fond of essays, but based on your explanation it seems I'm much more in tune with that style of writing. Still, I think
Stories in English should not written like essays or news reports. They should not be written in apassive boice or from an objective viewpoint.

Stories should make the reader experience what is happening from among the characters, not just know that it happened from a newscaster. ☕
this opinion is one I can't say I share. I'm personally perfectly fine with the way I write, and I don't remember ever hearing any complaints about it from my readers. In that same vein though, I was never trying to write on a professional level in the first place, as I much prefer the simpler style of light novels to more complex regular novels.

Things like that and translated web novels are some of my main inspirations as a writer these days, so emulating them in my own way satisfies me the most. If I tried to write on the level of more professional English authors, I wouldn't want to read my own stories.

:blob_dizzy: Er, well... I'm kind of rambling and I feel like I'm not articulating my point well, so I'll try again. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with not improving my writing according to modern English standards, because the way I write now appeals to my target demographic: Me. As well as people like me who also prefer stories that aren't really heavy on description and use a more passive voice. And while it certainly seems more than likely, I'd like to hope I'm not alone in feeling that way.

I'm not that good at speaking or debates or anything like that so I know I'm probably not making a lot of sense here and probably didn't need to even say anything in the first place, but I hope I was able to offer another perspective on the subject without making you feel as if I was trying to argue. I'm really sorry if that was the case :blob_cringe:
 
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The #1 most common mistakes novice writers make are in "The Secret to Proper Paragraphing."
You're going to have to be a little more specific. LOL!
Alright. How about explaining how publishers regard/evaluate a novel. Would they deduce a point if it's written in a particular perspective? Are there any genres they refuse to touch? This would be interesting to know and will probably produce some nice reactions.
 

OokamiKasumi

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Alright. How about explaining how publishers regard/evaluate a novel. Would they deduce a point if it's written in a particular perspective? Are there any genres they refuse to touch? This would be interesting to know and will probably produce some nice reactions.

Are you...encouraging me to start a riot? On my own threads?!
 
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OokamiKasumi

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I only wish to be enlightened. Seriously though, I'm actually curious what would be considered an industry standard.

Very well then...

Believe it or not, and for some reason many people don't, ALL publishers regard/evaluate a novel by what's posted on their Submission Guidelines.

All publishers have a website and Google.com is your friend.

DAW (Penguin Books)
DAW accepts unsolicited submissions of science fiction and fantasy novels. We cannot consider short stories, short story collections, novellas, or poetry. The average length of the novels we publish varies, but is almost never fewer than 80,000 words.​
A literary agent is not required for submission.​
We will not consider manuscripts that are currently on submission to another publisher unless prior arrangements have been made with a literary agent. It may require three months or more for our editors to review a manuscript. If we take longer than three months to review your manuscript, we no longer require an exclusive submission.​
At this time, we only accept electronic submissions through our Submittable page: submit.dawbooks.com.​

Tor Books
Tor is closed for submissions at the moment, but take a good long look at the list of Don'ts at the bottom. Those actually apply to almost every publisher whether it's posted or not.​
As of January 7, Tor.com is closed to unsolicited (non-requested) short fiction submissions on an indefinite basis. Please check here for more information. Our readers and editors will respond to each story that has been submitted to us. If you have questions about the status of your story, or wish to withdraw your story from our consideration to submit it elsewhere, please email [email protected].​

Tor.com Original Short Fiction Submissions Guidelines​

As of January 7, Tor.com is closed to unsolicited short fiction submissions on an indefinite basis. Please check here for more information. Our readers and editors will respond to each story that has been submitted to us. If you have questions about the status of your story, or wish to withdraw your story from our consideration to submit it elsewhere, please email [email protected].​

Tordotcom Publishing Novella Submissions​

Tordotcom Publishing submissions are currently closed. The following guidelines describe our previous open period, which is still being evaluated. We plan to reopen, but do not currently have a confirmed date. It is unlikely to be any time in 2019 but will update this page with concrete plans when we decide on dates and genre. If you have been waiting for a response, please email [email protected]. You are also free to withdraw a submission at any time, either through the submissions system or by emailing us.​
WHAT WE WERE LAST LOOKING FOR:​
Tordotcom Publishing is currently considering novellas of between 20,000 and 40,000 words in both the science fiction and fantasy genres, submitted between May and June of 2018.​
Lee Harris, Carl Engle-Laird, and Ruoxi Chen all actively request submissions from writers from underrepresented populations. This includes, but is not limited to, writers of any race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, nationality, class and physical or mental ability. We believe that good science fiction and fantasy reflects the incredible diversity and potential of the human species, and hope our catalog will reflect that.​
In addition to reviewing the guidelines, we also encourage you to take a look at our existing list to get a sense of the work our current authors are producing and Tordotcom Publishing’s vision and tastes. Good luck—we look forward to reading your work.​
WHAT WE’RE NOT LOOKING FOR:​
Tordotcom does not accept works that have been previously published elsewhere, in any venue. This includes all forms of digital self-publishing.​
We do not accept works that are not identifiable as fantasy or science fiction, or do not fit the genre we are currently soliciting. This includes, but is not limited to, non-science-fictional thrillers, and all kinds of non-fiction and memoirs.​
We are not currently interested in tie-in fiction (AKA Fan-Fiction). This includes fiction that exists within worlds established in previously published novels, or that relies upon a knowledge of previously published novels.​
We do not accept multiple submissions. If you have more than one novella, you may only submit one at a time. You may submit another once we have responded to your first submission.​
We prefer that you not simultaneously submit your story to Tordotcom Publishing and other venues. If you do, however, and your novella is accepted by a different venue, please immediately withdraw your submission from Tordotcom Publishing. You can do so by emailing [email protected] with your story title, date submitted, and byline. Please make sure “Withdrawal” is in your subject line.​
What we pay: We offer an advance against royalties, the size of which will depend on a number of factors, including you, the length of your story and how commercial we think it is. We also offer a royalty-only option, but if we decide to make you an offer, you will be free to choose between the two.​
What rights does that give you? Our contract covers the right to publish the story in print, audio and ebook formats, worldwide, in English. Most of our print books will be published as p.o.d., though we may choose to publish other print editions.​
Just for the record, the word Guideline is a LIE. Those aren't guidelines, those are ironclad Rules for what they are currently looking for in submissions.

Case in point, that 80,000 minimum word count for DAW? It's actually 100,000 -- and no more unless you're already one of their established authors.

If your manuscript does not fit exactly into what they asked for, they won't accept it.

Or worse, they will accept it. Then once you sign their contract, you'll be forced to change your manuscript into what they were asking for in the first place.

Guess how I found out? 🥀
 
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This is different from what I expected but helpful nonetheless. Thank you.

Or worse, they will accept it. Then once you sign their contract, you'll be forced to change your manuscript into what they were asking for in the first place.

Guess how I found out? 🥀
This sounds like something they'd do. Hopefully, it didn't happen again.
 

OokamiKasumi

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, I see. Well I can't say I'm particularly fond of essays, but based on your explanation it seems I'm much more in tune with that style of writing.
The Journalistic style? Perfectly understandable. It's what you know.

Still, I think
Stories in English should not written like essays or news reports; written in a passive voice or from an objective viewpoint.​
Stories should make the reader experience what is happening from among the characters, not just know that it happened from a newscaster.​
this opinion is one I can't say I share.
That's fine too. After all, this is a site that encourages Creative writing.

I'm personally perfectly fine with the way I write, and I don't remember ever hearing any complaints about it from my readers.
As long as what you create pleases yourself and your readers, then there's no need to worry.

In that same vein though, I was never trying to write on a professional level in the first place, as I much prefer the simpler style of light novels to more complex regular novels.

Things like that and translated web novels are some of my main inspirations as a writer these days, so emulating them in my own way satisfies me the most. If I tried to write on the level of more professional English authors, I wouldn't want to read my own stories.
Writing should make the writer happy. As long as what you're writing makes you happy, you're doing something right.

:blob_dizzy: Er, well... I'm kind of rambling and I feel like I'm not articulating my point well, so I'll try again. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with not improving my writing according to modern English standards, because the way I write now appeals to my target demographic: Me. As well as people like me who also prefer stories that aren't really heavy on description and use a more passive voice. And while it certainly seems more than likely, I'd like to hope I'm not alone in feeling that way.

I'm not that good at speaking or debates or anything like that so I know I'm probably not making a lot of sense here and probably didn't need to even say anything in the first place, but I hope I was able to offer another perspective on the subject without making you feel as if I was trying to argue. I'm really sorry if that was the case :blob_cringe:
You made perfect sense and I never felt as if you were arguing -- merely stating your feelings about what you enjoy writing, and there's nothing wrong with that. 💐

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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