We need small limits on the rating system for the sake of new stories

[InfantryTerminator]

New stories and authors are often hurt by unfair ratings that either extremely lower their score or inflate it. Negative ones are often left by trolls or readers that give one star because they didn't like the premise, while camaraderie ratings (from those that came just to give a five star) inflates the score and it's a bad way to balance out the bad ones.

I know that stopping both is impossible, but there should be something in place that helps out new stories without taking a tool on the readers. So here is my idea:

Rating should grayed out or hidden (in the search, not story page) until the story gets 10-20 votes. This won't hurt readers as they will know that the story is new and rating might not reflect the quality, while new stories will be given a more fair start.

Increasing minimum amount of read chapters to rate should be enabled only stories with less than 25-50 votes, three chapters at best. It's not much, but it will prevent toxicity from lazy people without hurting readers. I know that many people want that limit at five and more, but it will only hurt readers while the trolls and camaraderie will simply skip through chapters.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

I'm all for balance but I don't think your suggestion will help. It'll deter both good and bad people from voting even more, including the ones that could give an honest good review. Second, putting the chapter limit before they can vote - I believe it was already explained by someone in another thread that technically, they could just skip or skim through three chapters fast and then give a rating if they want too; the trolls who really want to do it will still do it.

And for those short stories or poems which are only 1 chapter long and not three chapters, it will pose a problem bc readers can only rate them after three chapters, but there is non bc its short.

 

[bigbear51]

 

[gogo7966]

just remove raitings insted of this shit

 

[BenJepheneT]

this is like trying to combat political corruption by eliminating the infrastructure entirely. the rating system isn't perfect and is in definite need of improvement, but whatever that was proposed here is just short of scorched earth tactic.

this, I approve. plunge us to the dark ages, Tony.

 

[InfantryTerminator]

I'm all for balance but I don't think your suggestion will help. It'll deter both good and bad people from voting even more, including the ones that could give an honest good review. Second, putting the chapter limit before they can vote - I believe it was already explained by someone in another thread that technically, they could just skip or skim through three chapters fast and then give a rating if they want too; the trolls who really want to do it will still do it.

And for those short stories or poems which are only 1 chapter long and not three chapters, it will pose a problem bc readers can only rate them after three chapters, but there is non bc its short.

What will deter good people from voting? Honest and good reviews don't come from first chapter or even second one. I forgot that there are one shots, so let's just give the author ability to disable the rating limitations

Both you and BenJepheneT sound like you didn't even read everything in a short post. I clearly said that it's impossible to stop trolls, and I'm focusing on something that helps out NEW stories instead of trying to fix the problem entirely.

Two-three chapter review requirement on new stories is too much for you? Well, shite. Better stop voting and causing the problem I'm talking about

 

[bigbear51]

Ahh, nothing like using the boogieman of trolls for people to piss and moan about 1 star ratings

 

[Deleted member 45782]

What will deter good people from voting? Honest and good reviews don't come from first chapter or even second one. I forgot that there are one shots, so let's just give the author ability to disable the rating limitations

Both you and BenJepheneT sound like you didn't even read everything in a short post. I clearly said that it's impossible to stop trolls, and I'm focusing on something that helps out NEW stories instead of trying to fix the problem entirely.

Two-three chapter review requirement on new stories is too much for you? Well, shite. Better stop voting and causing the problem I'm talking about

Y'know, instead of calling people the problem here just because they pointed out there are flaws to the suggestions, maybe at least try to reflect on it? Yes, I did read it. I'm all for better suggestions on how to help the new writer (like say instead of a system in place that sorta pushes writers to put quantity over quality just to get trending). I just don't think what you suggested is that great. And if I didn't read it, I wouldn't have pointed out there are also those one chapter long stories that you seem to have forgotten and only just put it in your most recent reply.

Good people? Unless your story really knock some socks off or pisses off someone, there are many silent readers. Great people doesn't equate to them voting. Why do you think quite a few complain about not enough reviews/ratings?

No, I don't vote on stories. I don't read much and even if I do it depends if the story was really good or really horrible enough to pull me into voting. So no, I'm not part of your voting problem with the infamous 1* or 5*.

 

[InfantryTerminator]

Ahh, nothing like using the boogieman of trolls for people to piss and moan about 1 star ratings

Except I'm writing on Wattpad where we don't have ratings, and I'm talking from a perspective of an reader too. I often search by last updated to search for rising gems, and the rating on new stories is often a crap shoot that blends them with other stories and I usually skip stories with ratings bellow 3. It would be nice if there was a clear indicator on the rating that shows it's a new story, and it might be worth to give it a shot despite the low rating

I'm also pissed off about camaraderie/mercy/pity five star ratings that inflates the score. I can't count how many times I've read a new story with tragic grammar and straight five star rating

Y'know, instead of calling people the problem here just because they pointed out there are flaws to the suggestions, maybe at least try to reflect on it? Yes, I did read it, I just don't think its great. And if I didn't read it, I wouldn't have pointed out there are also those one chapter long stories that you seem to have forgotten and only just put it in your most recent reply.

Good people? Unless your story really knock some socks off or pisses off someone, there are many silent readers. Great people doesn't equate to them voting. Why do you think quite a few complain about not enough reviews/ratings?

No, I don't vote on stories. I don't read much and even if I do it depends if the story was really good or really horrible enough to pull me into voting. So no, I'm not part of your voting problem with the infamous 1* or 5*.

"I believe it was already explained by someone in another thread that technically, they could just skip or skim through three chapters fast and then give a rating if they want too; the trolls who really want to do it will still do it"

The last line of my post: "I know that many people want that limit at five and more, but it will only hurt readers while the trolls and camaraderie will simply skip through chapters" - Literally refers to that thread

I know that my suggestion is not perfect, but the wall is small enough to only cover new stories instead of everything and isn't forced down everyone throat. Once the story gains stable grounds, all of the limitations are lifted off either automatically or by author. Even if someone tried to mask their ratings on this on purpose, they won't get away it for long. I also lowered the rating requirements lift off to 25-50 ratings, so it should be more fair to everyone

And why are you suddenly talk about silent readers? I don't have anything against them, and the thread is about very early ratings based on first one-two chapters that doesn't reflect the whole story. Maybe you're not part of the problem, but your way of thinking is. There is no good and honest review/rating where the story barely stared. It's like I've read first paragraph of your CV letter and decided to hire you based on how I like the sound of it.

Ratings and reviews shouldn't be a wild west of do whatever you want. It should be only for people that bother to read the story and give it a fair chance, so the rating will be actually worth something and new stories won't be hurt because of incompetent people

 

[SailusGebel]

 

[Deleted member 45782]

"I believe it was already explained by someone in another thread that technically, they could just skip or skim through three chapters fast and then give a rating if they want too; the trolls who really want to do it will still do it"

The last line of my post: "I know that many people want that limit at five and more, but it will only hurt readers while the trolls and camaraderie will simply skip through chapters" - Literally refers to that thread

No, it wasn't clear it was from that thread. Many others state the same thing regardless of that thread too. You didn't specifically mention "that thread" so it just sounded like another person sharing their opinion how they don't like the 1★ and camaraderie 5★ ratings.

I know that my suggestion is not perfect, but the wall is small enough to only cover new stories instead of everything and isn't forced down everyone throat. Once the story gains stable grounds, all of the limitations are lifted off either automatically or by author. Even if someone tried to mask their ratings on this on purpose, they won't get away it for long. I also lowered the rating requirements lift off to 25-50 ratings, so it should be more fair to everyone

And why are you suddenly talk about silent readers? I don't have anything against them, and the thread is about very early ratings based on first one-two chapters that doesn't reflect the whole story.

Because you went into good people = voting. Good people ≠ voting. How many do vote? There could be many readers, not that many voting. The question that often comes up with these suggestions is will it deter people from voting/reviewing/rating if it was implemented more? Would that hurt it even more then?

Tbh, I'm starting to see your point but also....

Maybe you're not part of the problem, but your way of thinking is. There is no good and honest review/rating where the story barely stared. It's like I've read first paragraph of your CV letter and decided to hire you based on how I like the sound of it.

Every suggestion is open to criticism. Someone pointing out flaws does not automatically mean they are part of the problem. The way you sounded like, was that if anyone disagree with you, they are part of the problem. If thats the way you think, maybe the problem is not them...and it doesn't really push people to believe in what you say either.

Ratings and reviews shouldn't be a wild west of do whatever you want. It should be only for people that bother to read the story and give it a fair chance, so the rating will be actually worth something and new stories won't be hurt because of incompetent people

This, I agree ratings and reviews should not be a wild west to do whatever you want. And yes, I don't like the 1* and think its also unfair people only complain about the 1* but that 5* star just out of nowhere they don't talk about it.

Why not just slap a label "New Story" for X amount of days? I know one can see the latest series on the home page, but idk if you can just search by "New Story." And Latest Series, isn't it the same as Latest Updates and shows whatever recently got updated? Maybe replace one of those with a place specifically for New Stories. So then you still have one for Latest Updates and one for New. That way, new stories don't have to share the same list as those who already well established and update when you search for those stories? This will bring more actual exposure to new stories.

I'm my honest opinion a better way is just enforce every rating must have a review. Anyone who wants to make a troll review will reveal themselves with their username on the review. Anyone who just give a instant 5★ to encourage writers will have to say what they actually think about the story, so it can't just be an instant voting. It will make people think twice before voting and what they actually want to say in a review that better reflects more of the story. However, doing so may deter people from reviewing more. But this can also bring more honest reviews, and a more accurate reflection of how good both new and old stories are.

 

[Vicky]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

le 1 stars are evil!

 

[InfantryTerminator]

No, it wasn't clear it was from that thread. Many others state the same thing regardless of that thread too. You didn't specifically mention "that thread" so it just sounded like another person sharing their opinion how they don't like the 1★ and camaraderie 5★ ratings.

Because you went into good people = voting. Good people ≠ voting. How many do vote? There could be many readers, not that many voting. The question that often comes up with these suggestions is will it deter people from voting/reviewing/rating if it was implemented more? Would that hurt it even more then?

Tbh, I'm starting to see your point but also....

Every suggestion is open to criticism. Someone pointing out flaws does not automatically mean they are part of the problem. The way you sounded like, was that if anyone disagree with you, they are part of the problem. If thats the way you think, maybe the problem is not them...and it doesn't really push people to believe in what you say either.


This, I agree ratings and reviews should not be a wild west to do whatever you want. And yes, I don't like the 1* and think its also unfair people only complain about the 1* but that 5* star just out of nowhere they don't talk about it.

Why not just slap a label "New Story" for X amount of days? I know one can see the latest series on the home page, but idk if you can just search by "New Story." And Latest Series, isn't it the same as Latest Updates and shows whatever recently got updated? Maybe replace one of those with a place specifically for New Stories. So then you still have one for Latest Updates and one for New. That way, new stories don't have to share the same list as those who already well established and update when you search for those stories? This will bring more actual exposure to new stories.

I'm my honest opinion a better way is just enforce every rating must have a review. Anyone who wants to make a troll review will reveal themselves with their username on the review. Anyone who just give a instant 5★ to encourage writers will have to say what they actually think about the story, so it can't just be an instant voting. It will make people think twice before voting and what they actually want to say in a review that better reflects more of the story. However, doing so may deter people from reviewing more. But this can also bring more honest reviews, and a more accurate reflection of how good both new and old stories are.

I checked out that thread and the requirements were too high, hence why I said "I know many people want that limit at five at more"

This is the second time I'm telling you that this isn't about silent readers and not voting. It's about voting too early and hurting a story

And I'm open to criticism. I've lowered the requirement to auto lift off the minimum chapter limit, and added in option for authors to opt out from the limits after you've pointed out that there are one-shots and poems. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but you said that honest and good reviews can come before three chapters, hence why I called you a part of the problem. Sorry if I got it wrong, but I don't think that limits this small would deter "good people" you refereed to.

A new author wouldn't know that he needs to slap "New Story" into his synopsis. You can sort by publishing date and the new stories will come up, but most people are sorting by latest update from what I know. New stories are often dropped and not everyone is willing to dig through newbies creations to find a gem

That would bury the site. There are very few reviews and not everyone knows how to write a proper review, so it's a bad solution. Let's give the readers a slight push and let them vote based on their feelings once they gave story a proper chance

 

[SailusGebel]

I checked out that thread and the requirements were too high, hence why I said "I know many people want that limit at five at more"

This is the second time I'm telling you that this isn't about silent readers and not voting. It's about voting too early and hurting a story

And I'm open to criticism. I've lowered the requirement to auto lift off the minimum chapter limit, and added in option for authors to opt out from the limits after you've pointed out that there are one-shots and poems. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but you said that honest and good reviews can come before three chapters, hence why I called you a part of the problem. Sorry if I got it wrong, but I don't think that limits this small would deter "good people" you refereed to.

A new author wouldn't know that he needs to slap "New Story" into his synopsis. You can sort by publishing date and the new stories will come up, but most people are sorting by latest update from what I know. New stories are often dropped and not everyone is willing to dig through newbies creations to find a gem

That would bury the site. There are very few reviews and not everyone knows how to write a proper review, so it's a bad solution. Let's give the readers a slight push and let them vote based on their feelings once they gave story a proper chance

Changing the rating system won't fix anything, let it go.

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

What if a story is that white based of the description alone ?

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

No. Your narrative hurts readers the most. If people want to read stories above a certain amount of stars as you yourself do (3 stars in your case), they will find unrated novels. Not everyone has the time to read every story or even give them a chance. People want to read 'good' stories, not the zombie apocalypse setting with the incel mc having a zombie waifu. People want to read futanari smut, and my heart goes out to them at the lack of it.

When I check the new stories and see a novel with 1 chapter out that has 3 1-star ratings, that indicates something. Same if it has 3 5-star ratings.

My own story got a few 1 star ratings after a whole month of it being out, and that happens to most fiction everywhere. People who like the story will default to a 5 star because it's much easier to just do that instead of critically analize something they read to get their minds off their lives.

Don't expect people to do anything based on your standard. You'll live miserably.

And what about actual 1 star ratings that are given because the story is that inconsistent or insipid? You'd be preventing readers from expressing their opinions about the novel based on an arbitrary limit. Why not read the entire story and all the chapter available before being able to rate instead? You know, like a physical book in a way even though the story is not finished and probably wont for a good hundred more chapters?

What if those three chapters you speak of are 500 words long? Would you put the same arbitrary limit to a story with 10k words a chapter?

Or maybe we should take the 1 star on the chin and improve our fictions? Crazy, I know.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Changing the rating system won't fix anything, let it go.

Changing it into a simple up-downvote would fix it. Or at least it would be honest and we wouldn't discuss about all the other pretend-stuff...

----------------------------------

Also... let's let the users only vote after they gave the story a proper chance is really condescending. When a story has a horrible first chapter leading to instant drops, it's their right to slap a one star on it right away. Saying "No, they first must give the story a proper chance" is off. The readers don't owe the author anything.

One stars happen. Most of them happen during trending, so the stories will already be overwhelmed with positive ratings.
Some one star happen due to bots or mass-downvoters. I lost multiple one stars when the system found those and deleted the accounts.
And the remaining bad votes? That's people who don't like my story, my writing, the premise, the cover, or my internet presence... so what?
Welcome to the internet...

 

[SailusGebel]

Changing it into a simple up-downvote would fix it. Or at least it would be honest and we wouldn't discuss about all the other pretend-stuff...

Yeah, and it will become harder to understand the quality of the story. It's literally the problem we have right now. "Negative ones are often left by trolls or readers that give one star because they didn't like the premise, while camaraderie ratings (from those that came just to give a five star) inflates the score and it's a bad way to balance out the bad ones." But you want to simply replace five-star ratings and one-star ratings with likes and dislikes. And while you do it, you want to throw away the 2,3,4 star ratings.

As I said, it won't fix anything as like\dislike system would still be unfair to authors. Right now, we at least have a tiny chance of relatively spread-out rating where people put 2,3,4 stars. For example, a reader dislikes a novel. He\she can leave a 2, or 3-star rating instead of downvoting a novel which equals to 1-star rating. The said reader has a choice. Btw, I'm not defending the current rating system. Every type of rating system is flawed, that's why changing it won't fix a thing.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

And I'm open to criticism. I've lowered the requirement to auto lift off the minimum chapter limit, and added in option for authors to opt out from the limits after you've pointed out that there are one-shots and poems. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but you said that honest and good reviews can come before three chapters, hence why I called you a part of the problem. Sorry if I got it wrong, but I don't think that limits this small would deter "good people" you refereed to.

If you were open to criticism, you wouldn't be so quick to call others the problem in the first place. Yeah, you did implement the changes. After you called others who brought it up as the problem. And then expected them to support your cause?

What will deter good people from voting?

You were the first one to refer to "good people." I was simply referring back to it. Sorry if I got it wrong, but I don't think the two are directly related.

A new author wouldn't know that he needs to slap "New Story" into his synopsis. You can sort by publishing date and the new stories will come up, but most people are sorting by latest update from what I know. New stories are often dropped and not everyone is willing to dig through newbies creations to find a gem

I'm not saying for the new author to slap on a New Story. That is something not done on their part; it is done with whatever system in place, esp since the system will know if its a new story, as new stories must always be approved first. But there are flaws to it too, because that is more work for whoever is doing the site. And since you brought up how there's already a published date sort, then fair enough. Let's toss this in the bin.

That would bury the site. There are very few reviews and not everyone knows how to write a proper review, so it's a bad solution. Let's give the readers a slight push and let them vote based on their feelings once they gave story a proper chance

new stories won't be hurt because of incompetent people

You're limiting readers in how they vote. You say they will vote just by their feelings..but if the reader really feels the story is that bad, they cannot vote. You also think many readers do not know how to write a review. And don't want stories to be hurt by "incompetent people." In a way, it feels like you're patronizing towards readers.

You're boxing readers in terms of story voting. And then believe on the goodwill that they will vote.

Are there some stories where the first chapter is really horrible? Yes. Should the reader be allowed to express what they feel of it?

I do believe stories should be given a proper chance. Your arguments and your suggestion though...let's agree to disagree.

On another topic, putting downlikes vs likes on a story will possibly hurt the author even more than the 3 chapter rate limit, cause now you see actual numbers of how many disliked your story. And many will tend see the worst side of things. Especially with the numbers being more solid viewable...

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

There are very few reviews and not everyone knows how to write a proper review, so it's a bad solution. Let's give the readers a slight push and let them vote based on their feelings once they gave story a proper chance

Look at this clown... Proper chance? Proper Review? Rating with stars after reading? You openly admit to skip chapters, your view is subjective af, and you don't even give a 1-star.
Yes, I'm a petty fuck.