Writing What would be the tip to understand and write non-human character's thought process?

CheertheDead

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Sometimes, I just feel the thought process of some of the monster and non-human creature was too human. Thus, I want to explore some tools to create a more authentic thought process of those characters.
 

Lorelliad

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Well, what's your protagonist? A dragon? A vampire?

Many fantasy novels portray... for example, goblins, as horny little fuckers who rape human women. So you could adopt that particular trait into your protag and make him horny af.

Dragons are also thought to have very narcissistic personalities. Which I don't blame them, since they are usually the strongest.
 

CheertheDead

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Read works with non-human protagonists to gain insight.
That is the source of my lament though since I have yet to found a single one that is truly interesting. Most of them as I said was very human in how they think.
 

Kilolo

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IMO, this is like you're asking how to write an autism/dyslexia/whatever characters without having the disorder yourself.

lots of the people on the spectrum got annoyed because the characters that portrayed aren't even remotely close to what it actually is. so what they're saying in those matter is : you should just avoid entirely trying to make sense or trying to explain the thought behind their action, just show them what they're capable to do.

but then again, the whole stuff are there to begin with because those people on the spectrum are able to read the story and comment on how painfully inaccurate it is. because they're capable of reading and commenting on the story themselves.

but a non-human characters? who cares. it's not like there would be someone claiming to be a cat and flaming you how far from reality are your portrayal of talking cats compared to the real one.
 

SailusGebel

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That is the source of my lament though since I have yet to found a single one that is truly interesting. Most of them as I said was very human in how they think.
Hmm, that is indeed a problem. Maybe research animals if non-humans are hybrids and implement more of the animal characteristics? Also, don't forget that humans are animals as well. So, if you take away our rationality and ability to think, we will act on our instincts, just like any other animal. This means that if you give an ability to think to an animal(monster) it's only natural that it will act more like a human. Most differences will stem from the differences in body structures and further develop into a difference in behavior to end up as cultural differences. Or something like this.
 

NotaNuffian

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I am a guy who avoids problems instead of facing them, so all I can tell you is to either not use non-humans as protags or at the very least, avoid writing them to be too human, I would list down some human traits like compassion to one's kind, then I recall about crows. Though they have the same racist thinkings as us though lol.

For instance, when JP like to write about elves, they have the decency to at least de-age their MCs to make them stupid and horny. Because they don't know how an immortal is like, they avoid the whole issue entirely. This in turns makes it bad because now they are "too human", but at least they can justify why their MC should be enjoyable to horny humans.

Study is your best bet to learn about the non-human races, but always remember that outliers are allowed, just because all orcs are stupid, doesn't mean that a smart one couldn't be born to start a human cattle farm.
 

TotallyHuman

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I have tried an experiment with that, actually https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/long-living-elves-would-be-kinda-weird.7845/
But I guess it would be to look at their key features, try to understand what kind of lifestyle those features would make sense, base priorities around that lifestyle and the rest (morals, thought processes etc) would go from there.
I would suggest you pay attention not to add ego (psychological definition of it) wantonly, or at least warp it far enough, if you want to go at a very inhuman feel, since I believe ego is something humans have exclusively on Earth. Though some form of self-identity would be required.
Emotions are also important. The range as well. Taking human emotions away from characters as traits seems easy enough, expanding upon the emotional spectrum is hard, however. I can't give any advice on that in particular, though do be warned not to lean onto human sensibilities and morals and ego too much. That would be all I can say on this topic for now
 

Amok

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herbivore or carnivore? omnivore? go spend time with animals, whether at zoo, farm, petting zoo, game reserve, animal shelter, kennel, scuba diving. bird watching, studying mantises, wasps and ants etc... etc...

Animals can be pretty weird, so those are great ways to enter a different headspace.
Or you can watch documentaries/read up on paleontology/biology/ecology. If the char is robotic, learn a bit more about how A.I functions, or how electricity can override the brain in case of a cyborg. Created species like elves, dwarves, orcs etc. are semi-reliant on established lore, yet the more intricately you imagine their biology and culture, the more unique they are as collective and individual entities.

Then there's media, films like the Black Crystal, games like Spore, and many other examples I'm sure depending on what u want.
 
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most non-human creatures require a touch of humanity. their basis is grounded from an easily understandable concept, for example, goblins are humanoid rats, ogres are pigs, elves are cockroaches, etc.

it's been said already, but watching documentaries on animals and trying to apply their characteristics onto humans is great practice. though, it often turns horrific.

also
rated from best to second-best
 

CheertheDead

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IMO, this is like you're asking how to write an autism/dyslexia/whatever characters without having the disorder yourself.

lots of the people on the spectrum got annoyed because the characters that portrayed aren't even remotely close to what it actually is. so what they're saying in those matter is : you should just avoid entirely trying to make sense or trying to explain the thought behind their action, just show them what they're capable to do.

but then again, the whole stuff are there to begin with because those people on the spectrum are able to read the story and comment on how painfully inaccurate it is. because they're capable of reading and commenting on the story themselves.

but a non-human characters? who cares. it's not like there would be someone claiming to be a cat and flaming you how far from reality are your portrayal of talking cats compared to the real one.
One of the reasons for reading fantasy or sci-fi is to explore the unknown, to immerse into the “IF”. It depended largely on the author’s part to make a world that the reader could immerse into it and feel real. How can I convince people something is real if I myself didn’t believe it to be real?


Hmm, that is indeed a problem. Maybe research animals if non-humans are hybrids and implement more of the animal characteristics? Also, don't forget that humans are animals as well. So, if you take away our rationality and ability to think, we will act on our instincts, just like any other animal. This means that if you give an ability to think to an animal(monster) it's only natural that it will act more like a human. Most differences will stem from the differences in body structures and further develop into a difference in behavior to end up as cultural differences. Or something like this.
This surely is a problem.
I just know that creatures (human included) developed their personalities and characteristics by
1) the stimuli they received and
2) how they perceived such stimuli

I don’t have a benchmark on how creatures other than human would feel or think.
Well, what's your protagonist? A dragon? A vampire?

Many fantasy novels portray... for example, goblins, as horny little fuckers who rape human women. So you could adopt that particular trait into your protag and make him horny af.

Dragons are also thought to have very narcissistic personalities. Which I don't blame them, since they are usually the strongest.
It’s a broad question actually. I don’t really try to find a solution to a specific problem. I try to get a tool that would apply to most if not all cases. Trying to get a tip that can be used to create/understand thought process of non-human.
I am a guy who avoids problems instead of facing them, so all I can tell you is to either not use non-humans as protags or at the very least, avoid writing them to be too human, I would list down some human traits like compassion to one's kind, then I recall about crows. Though they have the same racist thinkings as us though lol.

For instance, when JP like to write about elves, they have the decency to at least de-age their MCs to make them stupid and horny. Because they don't know how an immortal is like, they avoid the whole issue entirely. This in turns makes it bad because now they are "too human", but at least they can justify why their MC should be enjoyable to horny humans.

Study is your best bet to learn about the non-human races, but always remember that outliers are allowed, just because all orcs are stupid, doesn't mean that a smart one couldn't be born to start a human cattle farm.
That would be a way to avoid dealing with problems but I want to explore the problem.
 

SailusGebel

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I don’t have a benchmark on how creatures other than human would feel or think.
No one has, which is why you can do whatever. We can't know for sure that those 'non-humans' won't act exactly like humans, right? But as you don't like it and want to show the difference, the only way to go about it is to plan their behavior from scratch through research.
 

CypherTails

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One of the reasons for reading fantasy or sci-fi is to explore the unknown, to immerse into the “IF”. It depended largely on the author’s part to make a world that the reader could immerse into it and feel real. How can I convince people something is real if I myself didn’t believe it to be real?



This surely is a problem.
I just know that creatures (human included) developed their personalities and characteristics by
1) the stimuli they received and
2) how they perceived such stimuli

I don’t have a benchmark on how creatures other than human would feel or think.

It’s a broad question actually. I don’t really try to find a solution to a specific problem. I try to get a tool that would apply to most if not all cases. Trying to get a tip that can be used to create/understand thought process of non-human.

That would be a way to avoid dealing with problems but I want to explore the problem.

Well I wrote a monster MC story called Devourer not sure if you feel the MC is monster enough but the original draft was more monstrous, but I felt that would make it too unrelatable. Also honestly a monster running around eating everything in sight gets boring to write and read pretty fast.

What I did to lessen the humanity was to separate the idea of humanity and sentience. So for my MC I dulled his empathy and removed kinship attraction. Also, I made him not respect life at all, like to him life isn't sacred but he's perfectly fine with making friends and alliances. He has no sex drive as well because he has no gender. Essentially what I did was remove aspects of his psyche that wouldn't be necessary for a creature like him and keep the ones that would be advantageous to his survival.

So he's not a dumb beast but at the same time, he isn't very human. Yes, he shares some traits with humans but most of the traits can be characterized as a product of sentience rather than humanity.
 

TotallyHuman

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Oh, yeah, also read Fleabag on RRL, it's one of the better stories there with a main character that's not human(oid) nor thinks like one. The author's intent was to make a monster that wasn't just a human in a monster, so you should get something from there too, I think
 

Jemini

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I write a lot of non-human cultures in my world. In my case, I have taken to exploring what's the same between the cultures and thought processes rather than what is different.

Generally, all living creatures want to live, and they want to reproduce.

Those are the basics. You can build from there.

Living = taking all necessary actions to assure your biological survival. This can differ depending on the biological needs of your races. But, it does essentially boil down to nourishment (whatever form that takes) and security (protection from whatever might be considered harmful to them. In human terms, this usually means shelter.)

Reproduction is a trickier subject, because there are 2 primary reproduction strategies. The R reproductive strategy means just producing offspring in as large of numbers as possible, and not worrying about how they grow up. Rabbits are the typical example of an R reproductive strategy, but the goblins from goblin slayer's world would be so heavily in the R direction that they are actually further in that direction than rabbits. However, the absolute most extreme example would be spiders and most species of fish, which just create hundreds of offspring and then leave them to fend for themselves. Spiders even take it to the extreme of viewing their own offspring as a potential food source, actually killing and eating them if they don't run away fast enough. That probably places spiders at the #1 most extreme level of the R reproductive strategy, literally producing hundreds and then very literally not caring one bit whether they live or die to the extent of killing them themselves with no parental instinct at all.

The other reproductive strategy is called the K reproductive strategy. This describes a quality over quantity approach toward raising offspring. In a K strategy, there is a lot of parental instinct, and they will dedicate a great deal of resources toward raising children. Humans are often thought of to be a middle point between the two because we see humans varying more toward one direction than the other, but actually humans are very heavily in the K direction in terms of reproductive strategies and the differences in behavior you see are just natural variations in behavior.

I am sure, for instance, you can find spiders that will not consider their own offspring as food. So, that would be an extreme R species that is varying a little more in the K direction than is typical for their species. In that same vain, you have your dead-beat parents with irresponsible sexual practices among humans who are more R than the standard extreme K of the human species.

Anyway, the reason I say humans are an extreme K species is because of women experiencing menopaus. This is an evolutionary trait that is meant to facilitate grandparents aiding in the raising of their grandchildren. They stop having kids among the older generation, so they can help raise children 2 generations younger than themselves. This is a very extreme K reproductive behavior.

So, those are the base essentials that every race needs to have.

1. Filling the need for nourishment.
2. Filling the need for personal safety. If they are a communal species, then this extents to the entire community. (One point to note, self-sacrifice for the benefit of others is a behavior of a communal species.)
3. Filling the need for reproduction. You need to consider, however, whether this is more of an R reproductive species, or a K reproductive species.

Once you know those 3 foundational points that apply across any species, you can begin building their culture from there. Once you have built their culture, said culture will begin affecting their thought process.
 

CheertheDead

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Oh, yeah, also read Fleabag on RRL, it's one of the better stories there with a main character that's not human(oid) nor thinks like one. The author's intent was to make a monster that wasn't just a human in a monster, so you should get something from there too, I think

What is RRL?
Well I wrote a monster MC story called Devourer not sure if you feel the MC is monster enough but the original draft was more monstrous, but I felt that would make it too unrelatable. Also honestly a monster running around eating everything in sight gets boring to write and read pretty fast.

What I did to lessen the humanity was to separate the idea of humanity and sentience. So for my MC I dulled his empathy and removed kinship attraction. Also, I made him not respect life at all, like to him life isn't sacred but he's perfectly fine with making friends and alliances. He has no sex drive as well because he has no gender. Essentially what I did was remove aspects of his psyche that wouldn't be necessary for a creature like him and keep the ones that would be advantageous to his survival.

So he's not a dumb beast but at the same time, he isn't very human. Yes, he shares some traits with humans but most of the traits can be characterized as a product of sentience rather than humanity.
The reason I made this thread is because that fiction reminded me that there are very little non-human creatures that were well-designed. I found that those I read in the past are stories that created characters to fit their plot which limited the diversity of the characters. Hence, I make this question to explore ways to create and understand non-human. I will read your fiction later.
I write a lot of non-human cultures in my world. In my case, I have taken to exploring what's the same between the cultures and thought processes rather than what is different.

Generally, all living creatures want to live, and they want to reproduce.

Those are the basics. You can build from there.

Living = taking all necessary actions to assure your biological survival. This can differ depending on the biological needs of your races. But, it does essentially boil down to nourishment (whatever form that takes) and security (protection from whatever might be considered harmful to them. In human terms, this usually means shelter.)

Reproduction is a trickier subject, because there are 2 primary reproduction strategies. The R reproductive strategy means just producing offspring in as large of numbers as possible, and not worrying about how they grow up. Rabbits are the typical example of an R reproductive strategy, but the goblins from goblin slayer's world would be so heavily in the R direction that they are actually further in that direction than rabbits. However, the absolute most extreme example would be spiders and most species of fish, which just create hundreds of offspring and then leave them to fend for themselves. Spiders even take it to the extreme of viewing their own offspring as a potential food source, actually killing and eating them if they don't run away fast enough. That probably places spiders at the #1 most extreme level of the R reproductive strategy, literally producing hundreds and then very literally not caring one bit whether they live or die to the extent of killing them themselves with no parental instinct at all.

The other reproductive strategy is called the K reproductive strategy. This describes a quality over quantity approach toward raising offspring. In a K strategy, there is a lot of parental instinct, and they will dedicate a great deal of resources toward raising children. Humans are often thought of to be a middle point between the two because we see humans varying more toward one direction than the other, but actually humans are very heavily in the K direction in terms of reproductive strategies and the differences in behavior you see are just natural variations in behavior.

I am sure, for instance, you can find spiders that will not consider their own offspring as food. So, that would be an extreme R species that is varying a little more in the K direction than is typical for their species. In that same vain, you have your dead-beat parents with irresponsible sexual practices among humans who are more R than the standard extreme K of the human species.

Anyway, the reason I say humans are an extreme K species is because of women experiencing menopaus. This is an evolutionary trait that is meant to facilitate grandparents aiding in the raising of their grandchildren. They stop having kids among the older generation, so they can help raise children 2 generations younger than themselves. This is a very extreme K reproductive behavior.

So, those are the base essentials that every race needs to have.

1. Filling the need for nourishment.
2. Filling the need for personal safety. If they are a communal species, then this extents to the entire community. (One point to note, self-sacrifice for the benefit of others is a behavior of a communal species.)
3. Filling the need for reproduction. You need to consider, however, whether this is more of an R reproductive species, or a K reproductive species.

Once you know those 3 foundational points that apply across any species, you can begin building their culture from there. Once you have built their culture, said culture will begin affecting their thought process.
Sometimes, I wonder what would a creature that reproduce through binary fission or by budding would see about their daughters.
 

Western42

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Sometimes, I just feel the thought process of some of the monster and non-human creature was too human. Thus, I want to explore some tools to create a more authentic thought process of those characters.
I'm going to be completely honest. If monsters are as smart as humans, there will be no difference between their thought process unless their culture is way different. It isn't humans that make them be viewed as bad by quite a few writers, but the human mind that all intelligence life share.

If you want to be realistic, then every intelligent life would think like a human. Just make their morals change like, for example, orcs could view raiding as a way of life.
 

CypherTails

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What is RRL?

The reason I made this thread is because that fiction reminded me that there are very little non-human creatures that were well-designed. I found that those I read in the past are stories that created characters to fit their plot which limited the diversity of the characters. Hence, I make this question to explore ways to create and understand non-human. I will read your fiction later.

Sometimes, I wonder what would a creature that reproduce through binary fission or by budding would see about their daughters.
On the point of making the MC fit the plot IMO why that happens is that monster MCs have a unique challenge to writing them. It's that their bodies and nature make them restrictive to write. Like you need to take into account their size and how others react to them, it's not a simple matter of having your MC walk into a village. Because you know giant monster appearing leads to panic and then hunting parties and all that problems.

I resolved this by introducing a middle man character to work as an intermediary. I feel the above-mentioned problem also explains why so many MCs get this human transformation power. Since many authors don't sit down to fully plan out ways around this restriction, because this restriction actually passively creates a lot of plot holes once you start writing it.

Another way around it is to make the monster MC be worshipped as a god from the outset but that kicks the plot too far forward IMO and that would be more of an end goal more than anything.

PS: judging your reply I assume you take a look at my work, may I ask if you think it's monster enough? Most of the readers feel he is but more feedback is always welcome.
 
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The reason I made this thread is because that fiction reminded me that there are very little non-human creatures that were well-designed.
Beside the ones I have listed above, there's also this: Empire of the Ants. It's a great novel from the perspective of an actual ant. highly recommend it as well
 

TotallyHuman

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What is RRL?
I'm going to be completely honest. If monsters are as smart as humans, there will be no difference between their thought process unless their culture is way different. It isn't humans that make them be viewed as bad by quite a few writers, but the human mind that all intelligence life share.
I would say that our biological make up defines the way we process things in a very specific, fit to our biology way. Besides, intelligence here is a very broad term, if we are talking fantasy species. Though, admittedly, neither statement could be proven or disproven since we know not of a single species with a level of intelligence comparable to humans on our planet.
 
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