Why do you hate Mary Sue? They're perfect!!!

[Ram5]

It baffled me that people hate Mary Sue, they are the most perfect living creature that ever existed in fiction, they're immune to mistake, even when somehow they able to make mistake, no one will point it out and they shrug it off, everybody happy again by a few minutes later!

People hate pain (unless you're a maso), and struggle cause us pain, well, Mary Sue didn't have to struggle to learn anything, read a book for information, yes! they got it on the first book they pick (and the first page they open), learning martial arts or combat capability, easy, few days of training, they have mastered the combat and readied to fight the big boss, Mary Sue is... perfect...................................................!!!

I don't get the hate for Mary Sue...

 

[Daitengu]

I like your sarcasm.

 

[An_Anime_Addict]

I don't know if you're using sarcasm or being honest

 

[bananapink]

Nah, don't hate it. Love, love it when the protag is custom-made part superman part impossible and emotionally challenged... it pushes all that self-fulfilment button of the reader (cos yeah, who wants to start off lame and struggling?). Everybody's happy.

 

[PrincessFelicie]

Yes, Mary Sues are indeed literally perfect (though the definition of perfection can be debated on). But they don't really make for engaging story protagonists. Not because a character that's "perfect" isn't engaging, just look at golden age superman, but because they've extremely passive with few ideals, they're just "perfect" and that's the extent of their character. A "perfect" character needs morals, they're meant to exist as a guidance for other characters, and guidance means giving actual advice, not just sitting pretty fixing all problems for everyone through your mere presence.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Mary Sues are a paradox. Their one weakness is likeability, and why do you need people to like you when you're perfect?

 

[gaylolis]

i don't hate them though, i just don't really care 'bout them.

 

[Epsil]

What about her brother Gary Stu?

 

[FriendlyDragon]

Ah. Mary Sue. What happens when people don’t actually want to write character development.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

What about her brother Gary Stu?

Two perfect, attractive siblings. Yup. Sounds like an episode of BrattySis to me. I like.

It baffled me that people hate Mary Sue, they are the most perfect living creature that ever existed in fiction, they're immune to mistake, even when somehow they able to make mistake, no one will point it out and they shrug it off, everybody happy again by a few minutes later!

People hate pain (unless you're a maso), and struggle cause us pain, well, Mary Sue didn't have to struggle to learn anything, read a book for information, yes! they got it on the first book they pick (and the first page they open), learning martial arts or combat capability, easy, few days of training, they have mastered the combat and readied to fight the big boss, Mary Sue is... perfect...................................................!!!

I don't get the hate for Mary Sue...

I mean they can be shitty when they are perfect and the story is PURELY wish fulfillment. There is a
difference between being pathetically wish fulfillment-y story, and making fun of being a wish fulfilment story.

a story that seriously makes a go at it but is obvoisly just the author jacking off the main character wont be a fun time. But a story thst knows its reader base and just has fun with the main character's perfectness is going to be enjoyable. Like that anime...Sakemoto desu ga? That one has a perfect gary stu character but that show is fun specifically because it knows its ridiculous and plays on that. So it has a good time with it. And by extendipn so do we.

perfect MCs get boring fast, i find. Cuz usually they are so damn self righteous or whatever? At least in chinese stories.. But i never stop enjoying a perfect MC who just, like, curb stomps everything that comes his way in ridiculous and over the top fashion

 

[BenJepheneT]

But i never stop enjoying a perfect MC who just, like, curb stomps everything that comes his way in ridiculous and over the top fashion

Looking from hindsight, therein lies the perfect content - how big of an asspull the MC can pull off (within narrative logic, of course). How people still fuck it up is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Terok]

Ahhhh....
I want to write something so bad it's good now.
Well done, OP!

 

[Epsil]

I mean you can have a mary sue, but the story shouldn't be centric about her. Sure she's the main character, but the story doesnt involve her much.
That's a better way to handle a mary sue imo

 

[Ral]

I mean you can have a mary sue, but the story shouldn't be centric about her. Sure she's the main character, but the story doesnt involve her much.
That's a better way to handle a mary sue imo

But one requirement of a Mary Sue/Garry Stu is that they be the center of attention. Even if the story is presented in another POV (the villain for example) it would still be about Mary Sue/Gary Stu. While many would think Mary Sue is a character, it is actually also a writing issue. Essentially, the writing is about presenting how great Mary Sue/Gary Stu is. Everything is to display her/his awesomeness and perfectness. Since Mary Sue/Gary Stu is often used for self inserts, you could see why many writers falls for her/him. I mean, who don't want to read a story that glorifies a perfect version of themselves.

For me, I'm bored by Mary Sues. Such stories are usually only interesting to the writer themselves.

 

[Epsil]

But one requirement of a Mary Sue/Garry Stu is that they be the center of attention. Even if the story is presented in another POV (the villain for example) it would still be about Mary Sue/Gary Stu. While many would think Mary Sue is a character, it is actually also a writing issue. Essentially, the writing is about presenting how great Mary Sue/Gary Stu is. Everything is to display her/his awesomeness and perfectness. Since Mary Sue/Gary Stu is often used for self inserts, you could see why many writers falls for her/him. I mean, who don't want to read a story that glorifies a perfect version of themselves.

For me, I'm bored by Mary Sues. Such stories are usually only interesting to the writer themselves.

Speaking of this. What are your thoughts on self inserts? I think it's readable if they actually do something interesting, but if they fuck around and do weird shit that somehow everyone is ok with then it's kinda meh.

 

[Ral]

Speaking of this. What are your thoughts on self inserts? I think it's readable if they actually do something interesting, but if they fuck around and do weird shit that somehow everyone is ok with then it's kinda meh.

Self inserts can actually be really great as long as they are written as regular characters. Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson (yes those two) for example are self insert characters of the author Arthur Conan Doyle. Doyle however has the restraint and skill to use his self-inserts to serve the story and not a story to serve his self-inserts.

The problem with many self insert is as you said. They put themselves too much into the story and give their self-inserts way too much leeway to do whatever they want. Most of these are Mary Sue/Gary Stu stories.

 

[BenJepheneT]

The problem with many self insert is as you said. They put themselves too much into the story and give their self-inserts way too much leeway to do whatever they want. Most of these are Mary Sue/Gary Stu stories.

i can imagine the authors of twilight and fifty shades reading this and coming out thinking it was a good idea

 

[LostinMovement]

Mary Sues are a paradox. Their one weakness is likeability, and why do you need people to like you when you're perfect?

Wise words, my friend. Not needing others to like you because you deem yourself as perfect pretty much sums the standard mindset of your typical narcissistic.