Why So Many Crave Hard Magic

[Story_Marc]

So, this is my working theory right now on why so many gravitate to hard fantasy. Which can help inform stuff for people too.

 

[Zirrboy]

Seeing things through to their logical conclusion, exploring edge cases, display of a resulting mindset. I agree in that I think it's a big part of why I read/enjoy fantasy. But I don't think that's the single thing that carries the genre.

Hard magic makes it easier to facilitate suspension of disbelief. The idea of magic is neutral, so it rarely triggers direct rejection, but with it you can make what you want. And since they fit into an overarching system, the details you then choose to populate that system with will be easier to buy into.

Why is that character unbeatable or extremely charismatic?

Magic. Or maybe they're just really great.

Which sounds as handwaived as it is. (Ultimately everything written is "handwaived", obviously, but what matters is how it appears)

But we could elaborate that every person gets to collect skills based on obscure conditions, and they just managed to get the really powerful ones.
Thus the hard magic became a tool to support an entirely different aspect of the story, used in the same way that a sudden inheritance trope might be used in a non-magical setting. The rules themselves don't matter, the sense of plausibility they create does.

 

[Story_Marc]

Seeing things through to their logical conclusion, exploring edge cases, display of a resulting mindset. I agree in that I think it's a big part of why I read/enjoy fantasy. But I don't think that's the single thing that carries the genre.

Hard magic makes it easier to facilitate suspension of disbelief. The idea of magic is neutral, so it rarely triggers direct rejection, but with it you can make what you want. And since they fit into an overarching system, the details you then choose to populate that system with will be easier to buy into.

Why is that character unbeatable or extremely charismatic?

Magic. Or maybe they're just really great.

Which sounds as handwaived as it is. (Ultimately everything written is "handwaived", obviously, but what matters is how it appears)

But we could elaborate that every person gets to collect skills based on obscure conditions, and they just managed to get the really powerful ones.
Thus the hard magic became a tool to support an entirely different aspect of the story, used in the same way that a sudden inheritance trope might be used in a non-magical setting. The rules themselves don't matter, the sense of plausibility they create does.

Of course no single thing carries it. I can go into much greater detail on so many aspects and so on, with particulars factored in. I'm just speaking with relation to this specific big genre appeal and what it appeals to.

I actually am considering touching on some other stuff. I just don't do long form anymore.

Also, that sense of plausibility still touches into the idea of being more that I mentioned as the big appeal.

 

[Echimera]

To me, it's generally about internal consistency, both regarding the magic system and the implications on the story.
And soft magic systems always run the risk of introducing stuff (that was supposedly always there), without taking into account what implications that may have on previous stories.
Or just removing the stakes, since the magic system is so loosely defined that it becomes clear that a character will always just get the right power at the right moment to solve any problem.

Since you brought up LitRPG, I would like to point out that these do not automatically have a hard magic system, just because there are numbers attached to stuff.
The author can still decide to pull the numbers out of their behind or make up new abilities to resolve situations they have written themselves into.
And in reverse, a magic system doesn't have to be explained in detail to the reader to be a hard magic system. The important thing is that the author puts in the effort to establish the rules early on and sticks to them in their writing.

It's not even limited to magic, but the same can apply to sci-fi technology.
In a way, the logical conclusion of a hard magic system would always be that in universe, magic can be treated as another branch of science, even if none of the characters (or anyone in the setting) knows or understands that and it's not communicated to the readers.


Now that I think about it, I'm actually not sure if it's a draw towards hard magic systems, maybe it's more an aversion to badly executed soft magic systems.
You know, the cases where authors introduce stuff with wide-ranging consequences on the setting, and instead of picking an easy answer for why these things are not as widely used or can't be used to solve future issues as easily, they go and make up convoluted explanations or try to handwayve it, but introduce new contradictions.
I think my two prime examples are Time Turners in Harry Potter and the Hyperspace Ramming stuff in The Last Jedi (conveniently a technology example as well). Both had so easy answers for why they weren't used all the time before or afterward, but the authors/directors made it worse in their attempts to explain these perceived ramifications away.

• Time Turners: The book clearly shows that it's a closed time loop, with everything that is done during the time travel episode matching what has already happened before, providing more context and explanations, but changing absolutely nothing. The logical conclusion is that Time Turners simply can't be used to change the past. But instead of pointing that out when fans that didn't realize that asked JKR, she destroyed all of them at the next chance, but also write additional storeis that establish that they can actually be used to change the past, with catastrophic results as the stage play would show in the end.
• Hyperspace Ramming: whith how effective it is shown in the movie, the question as to why it's not a wideapread weapon makes sense. But instead of bringing up a serious downside to the whole thing, like the risk of massive collateral damage somewhere behind the target, be it planet scale destruction or simply lasting damage to stable hyperspace routes, they try to wave it off as a lucky shot, but that doesn't match with the reaction of every Imperial on the chasing fleet the moment they realize what's going to happen.

 

[melchi]

Since you brought up LitRPG, I would like to point out that these do not automatically have a hard magic system, just because there are numbers attached to stuff.
The author can still decide to pull the numbers out of their behind or make up new abilities to resolve situations they have written themselves into.
And in reverse, a magic system doesn't have to be explained in detail to the reader to be a hard magic system. The important thing is that the author puts in the effort to establish the rules early on and sticks to them in their writing.

This.

In a good litrpg readers can understand the character sheet. Like for example: In Shirtaloon's discord, there is a channel where people write up their own powers list. There are a lot of fan made characters that use said author's system. I think that speaks for itself.

Conversely, if things are squishy, it'll make readers cry "deus ex machina" Which in a fantasy novel is a really real temptation.

Like in the first book in the "Recluse" series, I felt the final confrontation wasn't very cathartic. The big bad is built up to be impossible but then the main character confronts him directly and pulls through with something improvised on the spot. I came away from the book thinking the rules of magic in that world are really squishy.

 

[Zirrboy]

Also, that sense of plausibility still touches into the idea of being more that I mentioned as the big appeal.

I agree that it does, but to me "being more" is not an appeal of only hard magic, but magic in general.

And soft magic systems always run the risk of introducing stuff (that was supposedly always there), without taking into account what implications that may have on previous stories.

That sounds more like a badly executed hard magic system. Soft magic systems, as far as I understand them, have few rules to break in the first place, especially regarding generalization.

Now that I think about it, I'm actually not sure if it's a draw towards hard magic systems, maybe it's more an aversion to badly executed soft magic systems.
You know, the cases where authors introduce stuff with wide-ranging consequences on the setting, and instead of picking an easy answer for why these things are not as widely used or can't be used to solve future issues as easily, they go and make up convoluted explanations or try to handwayve it, but introduce new contradictions.

More or less the same point as above: Universality/replicability is a hard aspect, even if the magic system as a whole might lean on the soft side.

 

[Story_Marc]

I agree that it does, but to me "being more" is not an appeal of only hard magic, but magic in general.

I agree that it is magic in general. Or, hell, the entire fantasy genre, since I didn't go into depth. I only used hard magic as a gateway into this topic. And more extrapolated to there.

I'm not dismissing soft magic.

 

[BetterNickPending]

Now that I think about it, I'm actually not sure if it's a draw towards hard magic systems, maybe it's more an aversion to badly executed soft magic systems.

As tempting as soft magic can be, from readers perspective it can be perceived as "anything goes".
And if "anything goes" for the MC to be so powerful, why doesn't it go for others in the same universe?

I think that the topic might be a little connected to the overused trope of "overpowered protagonist".
(despite me and many other people despising that trope it seems to be constantly on the rise for some unknown to me reason)
If you have a hard magic with hard rules the MC is also bound by them and thus it makes him less overpowered.
(unless Overlord )

For MC to thrive in hard magic setting he has to have something about him other than being MC.
Heirloom artefact, special bloodline, wits to exploit loopholes in rules.
This something is what makes it interesting. We can observe MC struggling to master that something, and bare consequences of using it.

If there is no struggle we have monstrosities like: Overlord, Re:Monster, and other cheat level ability nonsense...


Good example of executing soft/hard magic I think is history of the force in StarWars.
If you think about it it is just space magic.

In the first trilogy we had just 5 characters who could use it and 4 of them die along the story.
Because limitations of special effects and the fact that it was freshly created universe, force had almost no rules and was used as needed.
We need to show power and malice of Vader, and now the force choke is a thing.
We need to find plausible way to avoid patrols? From now on suggestion exists.
And so on...

Than as the universe was expanding and was populated by more magic users. More rules were invented. Races immune to magic, races that perceive world through magic, magic places, magic artefacts, ...

Because it was all done with moderation and tastefully by skilled authors and script writers it was fine. People loved it.

Then came the time when EVERYONE tried to inject numeric power levels into their universe.
And thus midihlorians were created(1999). (and later maxihloians and more... ). We had over 9000 in Dragon ball (1997).
Later those things were almost never mentioned in said universes.

Why that happened? Maybe because video games were gaining on popularity (PlayStation was released 1994) because technology was getting advanced enough to make them more and more visually appealing. That might be topic for another discussion.

Anyway. We came to Didney era in SW.
And oh boy! They have a field day with soft "anything goes" rules.
Or rather all soft rules went down the drain.
Suddenly the only rule is that Rey Sue "♪ can do anything better ♫" than male magic users. Force healing that before required life time of training and was used by separate cast of Jedi now can be used by Rey without any training.
Lightsabers, that before required space magic to be used so that user would not kill or mutilate himself, or extensive training (Grevious was trained and had blood of Master Sifo-Dyas transfused), now can be picked up by any new order janitor (Fin) and he can stand his ground against highly trained Kylo Ren! And so on...
(┛ಠ_ಠ)┛彡┻━┻

That was bullshit and fans hated it.

When people got so badly burned by misuse of soft magic they crave the stability and certainty of steel hard magic.

But LOTR and Narnia and all classic fairy tales many of which were adopted to classic Disney movies had soft magic.
And were immensely successful.

After all it seems that making good soft magic might be harder, than designing a whole magic system with its rules transcending planes of existence and time itself ...

Maybe people in this time and age that are engulfed in chaos and uncertainty of every day life (economic crisis, pandemics, inflation, unemployment, 21 ongoing wars + 35 minor armed conflicts, oppressive laws, influx of migrants, ...), find solace in hard magic system in their entertainment. They find it comforting that, bad guy can not cast fireball against MC, because bad guy has just 19 mana points left and fireball needs 20, and can't be slightly less powerful fireball cast with 19 mana points.

Sorry for too much text...

 

[Echimera]

I agree that it does, but to me "being more" is not an appeal of only hard magic, but magic in general.


That sounds more like a badly executed hard magic system. Soft magic systems, as far as I understand them, have few rules to break in the first place, especially regarding generalization.


More or less the same point as above: Universality/replicability is a hard aspect, even if the magic system as a whole might lean on the soft side.

I was more thinking in terms of narrative implications, rather than implications on the magic systen.
There are connections, of course, especially when cool stuff is introduced and every other character actually uses it, so we can assume it's a fairly basic ability in whatever few rules the magic system has.
But then you look back and realize that this would have been very handy in an earlier story, and for some reason characters that are now using it all the time somehow didn't do that back then.